Hey, anybody using Mame to play?

HeLGeN-X · Post by **HeLGeN-X** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:23 am

I know emulation is probably not most of you guys cups of tea, but I would love to play with somebody online, games like Dodonpachi, Esprade, Giga Wing ETC.

I'm usually on in most New York servers, so if anyone wants to play, I think I pretty much got all the shmup games that were awesome in the arcade which are in rom format, let's play

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:39 am

I play in MAME all the time...never once played online though.

HeLGeN-X · Post by **HeLGeN-X** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:49 am

So let's do this, I'm in a server called [SCS] Sonic Cage Dome

kengou · Post by **kengou** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:10 am

I MAME all the time and I didn't even know that was possible. What MAME program are you using for it? I use Mame32 and Xmame (when I'm on linux)

shoe-sama · Post by **shoe-sama** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:18 am

mame++

splitblkribbon · Post by **splitblkribbon** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:28 am

hmm, I doubt my comp can do it. I'm on a mac so we have a different version of mame

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:40 am

You talking about Kaillera? Lag might be a critical factor though. There's enough of it to matter a bit in fighters. Can't imagine playing a manic with a 3-frame delay by default and possible up to 10 frames.

-Bridget- · Post by **-Bridget-** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:52 am

Ganelon wrote:You talking about Kaillera? Lag might be a critical factor though. There's enough of it to matter a bit in fighters. Can't imagine playing a manic with a 3-frame delay by default and possible up to 10 frames.

Agreed.

For fighters, it's usually not even worth trying. Even something like Senko no Ronde on the 360...... I love the game, but I havent bothered with online, cause the slightest delay would equal me getting hit alot.

And I have a FAST connection, mind you.

I think that probably alot of people here use some form of MAME, though. I know I do......

eight · Post by **eight** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:57 am

I tried DDP a couple months ago with a friend but it didn't work out. We both were playing a different game at some point of the game. Pretty weird.

Dandy J · Post by **Dandy J** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:03 am

Guys, server-based Kaillera is old news.

http://kaillera.movsq.net/

elvis · Post by **elvis** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:26 am

-Bridget- wrote:For fighters, it's usually not even worth trying. Even something like Senko no Ronde on the 360...... I love the game, but I havent bothered with online, cause the slightest delay would equal me getting hit alot.

And I have a FAST connection, mind you.

Your bandwidth has nothing to do with it. It's latency that matters.

Even people on "slow" connections can play without lag online if the ping times between users are low enough. I was playing on Kaillera back when I was on 128kbit/s ADSL, but only played people with ping times less than 50ms, and the games were fine.

Rule of thumb is to try and play either with people who are geographically close to you, or use the same provider.

I use a pretty popular ISP here in Australia, and even people who are over 2000km+ away from me are fine to play against if they use the same ISP, as the data only needs to travel over a few "hops" to get to them, and latencies are very low.

-Bridget- · Post by **-Bridget-** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:58 pm

elvis wrote:
-Bridget- wrote:For fighters, it's usually not even worth trying. Even something like Senko no Ronde on the 360...... I love the game, but I havent bothered with online, cause the slightest delay would equal me getting hit alot.

And I have a FAST connection, mind you.
Your bandwidth has nothing to do with it. It's latency that matters.

Even people on "slow" connections can play without lag online if the ping times between users are low enough. I was playing on Kaillera back when I was on 128kbit/s ADSL, but only played people with ping times less than 50ms, and the games were fine.

Rule of thumb is to try and play either with people who are geographically close to you, or use the same provider.

I use a pretty popular ISP here in Australia, and even people who are over 2000km+ away from me are fine to play against if they use the same ISP, as the data only needs to travel over a few "hops" to get to them, and latencies are very low.

Hmm, that's a good point, hadnt really thought of that.

Still, I personally wouldnt bother with something like this online....

I have enough trouble with the very, very very slight delay caused by my HD screen (if Im using it), particularly with fighting games.... Heck, I remember a fighter tourney very nearly being cancelled at a recent con because all the TV setups were HD screens, and everyone was complaining about the delay (till someone found a projector.....).

Doesnt need to be a big delay at all to destroy a game like this.

Personally, I dont really care for shmup multiplay myself (except in the case of Senko no Ronde, but that's fighting, not working together). I dont really like having to worry about the other guy, in addition to all the crazy crap on the screen.....

stanski · Post by **stanski** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:32 pm

Use the new P2P kaillera and lag is hardly a factor at all. Playing lag free games of twinkle star sprites=win.

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:34 pm

Really ? it works without latency ? How come ?

It's interesting for me I've something I'd like to try if it's possible to play 2P without lag under MAME.

elvis · Post by **elvis** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:01 pm

-Bridget- wrote:Heck, I remember a fighter tourney very nearly being cancelled at a recent con because all the TV setups were HD screens, and everyone was complaining about the delay (till someone found a projector.....).

Evolution 2004. The company responsible for leasing the TV screens to the tournament ran out of CRTs, and decided to do the guys "a favour" and "upgrade" them to LCDs for free, not realising there was a very specific reason they asked for CRT. The day was rescued by a few of the SRK kids driving an hour north to find a 24 hour Walmart, and slapping 20 or so TVs on their credit card. A noble sacrifice, I must say.

But realise also that the lag on LCD TVs can be as bad as half a second (500ms) due to upscaling. Kaillera, while not perfect, can be played with latencies as low as 20-50ms if you choose a person/server near you.

PROMETHEUS wrote:Really ? it works without latency ? How come ?

There is still latency (heck, even a LAN has latency of a fraction of a millisecond).

The P2P system means that data now travels directly between the peers, rather than from client to server and to the second client and back again. It halves (or better if they are using the same ISP but the server is elsewhere) the amount of hops between the peers, reducing latency dramatically.

It's also much fairer, as with the old "server" system if you hosted a Kaillera server yourself, you got the advantage of communicating to it quickly, while your opponent/partner had the lag. With the P2P system, each person gets the same amount of lag no matter who hosts the server.

Again, the "lag" we are talking about here really isn't that bad. I've happily played some of the faster fighters over Kaillera (SF2HF and ST) and been pleased with the results.

If I was hosting a TOURNAMENT, then I would play face to face. For casual play, it's fine, as long as you're not playing people a whole country away with 250ms+ pings.

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:06 pm

mmmh, guess it would still be way too much lag to play a manic shmup on.

HeLGeN-X · Post by **HeLGeN-X** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:06 pm

I've played multiple shmups online, and it's really not that bad, at least for me. Me and my friend have even beaten a lot of shmups online, so if anyone wants to play anything, (DF anyone? XD) let's play, don't need to be a specific time... There's a nice server called R1 Hosting.

Oh, and I use this client:

http://www.kaillera.com/files/mameppk_b ... 070811.zip

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:48 pm

Even manic shmups ?

stanski · Post by **stanski** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 11:08 pm

I've played plenty of shmups over the new P2P kaillera and its definately not bad at all. I can't even notice the lag at all, its that small.

eight · Post by **eight** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 7:15 am

I will give it a shot when I come back from work.

JBC · Post by **JBC** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:54 am

Hmm... this has me interested. I'll check this out when it's not 5am already

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:50 pm

It depends a lot on who you're connected to and what internet activity is going on their end. If you get a <30ms player on excellent or LAN connection (you WILL feel a slight lag on good), then you should be doing very well in most shooters with at best a 3 frame input lag (it's good enough that I can pull reversals without too much trouble). On P2P, you could potentially reduce it down to 1 frame, which is pretty much unnoticeable. Chances are though that you'll be experiencing slightly more than that though.

Anything above 50ms has noticeable lag. Anything above 100ms is essentially unplayable for serious purposes. Be aware that certain games work better than others on certain emus. Most people use Mame 32K .64 (old and low memory needs) and Mame++ .117 (for CPS3 gaming) right now.

It's definitely worth a shot if you've never tried it before. But don't expect perfection in execution and speed or give up hope if your first few games are with really laggy people. I initially thought Kaillera was unplayable because my first few opponents lagged so much but now I know which players have as smooth a connection as I do and it works great.

Master O · Post by **Master O** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 4:23 am

Has anyone tried p2p kaillera with Darius 1 or Darius 2 (arcade) while using multiple monitors?

I'm just curious because wouldn't both players using multiple monitors cause desyncing? Or are there too many other factors to consider here?

stanski · Post by **stanski** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 4:53 am

Master O wrote:Has anyone tried p2p kaillera with Darius 1 or Darius 2 (arcade) while using multiple monitors?

I'm just curious because wouldn't both players using multiple monitors cause desyncing? Or are there too many other factors to consider here?

All input is fed directly to the other client before it is outputted to video.