Ketsui PCB collection : let's get it dumped.

Fighter17 · Post by **Fighter17** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:29 pm

Guru is the only guy (that I know of) who might break the protection of the Sound Chip in those Toaplan PCBs (Fire Shark, Batsugun, V-5, etc.).

I'll see what I can come up with next week.

zakk · Post by **zakk** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:02 pm

TWE wrote:I think it would be a good idea to contact Guru, tell him what we're doing, and confirm that he would actually dump the game (soon!).

Ehhhh, I'm not so sure that really should be done. It sort of smacks of 'HEY WE WANT TO PLAY THIS GAME PLZ DUMP IT NOW' no matter how you try to word it. It's not like Ketsui is ultra-rare and this is imperative for preservation; this really is a case of 'want to play the game'

Dumping it soon isn't so much a big deal, it could sit there untouched for a long while; someone has to do a bit of work on the protection and that only happens when someone considers it interesting.

Also mamedev are a (justifiably) ornery bunch when it comes to 'requests' like this, it has a potential to hurt the cause more than help it.

pixelcorps · Post by **pixelcorps** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:18 pm

let's just get the board before we start bugging anyone, we still have a way to go.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:50 pm

zakk wrote:
TWE wrote:I think it would be a good idea to contact Guru, tell him what we're doing, and confirm that he would actually dump the game (soon!).
Ehhhh, I'm not so sure that really should be done. It sort of smacks of 'HEY WE WANT TO PLAY THIS GAME PLZ DUMP IT NOW' no matter how you try to word it. It's not like Ketsui is ultra-rare and this is imperative for preservation; this really is a case of 'want to play the game'

Dumping it soon isn't so much a big deal, it could sit there untouched for a long while; someone has to do a bit of work on the protection and that only happens when someone considers it interesting.

Also mamedev are a (justifiably) ornery bunch when it comes to 'requests' like this, it has a potential to hurt the cause more than help it.

Looks like you're quite wrong. I just emailed Guru today about this, told him the whole plan (including a link to this thread), and here is his reply:

"Hello,
Sure, I can dump it for you. Let me know when you buy it and then I'll give
you an address to send it over.
BTW, I can buy most stuff in Japan at reasonable prices. I can probably buy
that game for you if you just sent the money.

Guru
http://www.mameworld.net/gurudumps/"

So people, do you want to take Guru up on his offer to track down a Ketsui board in Japan?

PC Engine Fan X! · Post by **PC Engine Fan X!** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:07 pm

Wow, Guru offering to find such a Ketsui PCB and dump it afterwards...sounds like a plan. ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

pixelcorps · Post by **pixelcorps** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:27 pm

let's get the money first!! we're still $600 short

nothings going to happen til then anyway - in between we might be able to source one anyway.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:37 pm

Just sent you $25, pixelcorps.

Come on guys, send something. Even $1 would be great, as if a couple hundred members do that, we'd be close to our target in no time.

pixelcorps · Post by **pixelcorps** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:59 pm

cheers dude.

GIVE US YOUR MONEY!

i feel like the shooter nerd equivalent of bob geldof or something!!

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:46 am

So people, do you want to take Guru up on his offer to track down a Ketsui board in Japan?

We all know the chances of this are zero unless there's one for sale in the PCB hops, Akiba, or YJ (of which now, there are not). We (or he) would just have to wait.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:49 am

Once we get $800, I'll track one down pretty fast.

Fighter17 · Post by **Fighter17** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 2:29 am

I want that Sound protection be broken Guru!

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:44 am

Where will you get one for $800? The only ones that show up that low are in the shops, and they get one approximately once per quarter --- and you have to be the lucky one person that gets it. YJ gets quite a few more, but they're always over $1000.

pixelcorps · Post by **pixelcorps** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:09 am

GaijinPunch wrote:Where will you get one for $800? The only ones that show up that low are in the shops, and they get one approximately once per quarter --- and you have to be the lucky one person that gets it. YJ gets quite a few more, but they're always over $1000.

that's why I stated the initial target was 800

thanks for the positive vibes though eh?

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:05 am

pixelcorps wrote:
thanks for the positive vibes though eh?

Yeah, there seem to be some negative vibes in this thread. Not sure why really...

Back to the point of this thread, I'm surprised more people haven't donated yet. I've seen dozens of people here bitch about how Ketsui costs crazy prices and they still can't play it in MAME, but they won't even donate $1 to help get it emulated.

So what's the deal, do most people here really not care that much about Ketsui being emulated?

mirkvid · Post by **mirkvid** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:36 am

ya know, i wonder what will happen if we actually pull it off. (get the $, get the pcb, and it actually gets emu'd) i hope that developers take notice, but in reality, since there is no port coming (of this or any other non-emulated older shmup), and they wont be losing any money, they probably wont really care.

anyway, i think it'll make a strong statement about the shmup community.

szycag · Post by **szycag** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:36 am

It's only been a day...

P_HAT · Post by **P_HAT** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 7:16 am

10$ from me.
I think i can add more later =)

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 7:49 am

I don't think people are being negative... just real. I have no doubts that Guru will dump it... however, you still have to remember

-Gotta get the board
-Dump the board
-Someone has to crack the encryption
-Someone has to make the driver for it to run

Dumping the board is the only shoe-in. Getting the board will happen, but take a little patience. The other two are gigantic question marks. I'd like to see it get done, but I also hope this thread isn't creating false hopes.

Battlesmurf · Post by **Battlesmurf** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 9:04 am

Back to the point of this thread, I'm surprised more people haven't donated yet. I've seen dozens of people here bitch about how Ketsui costs crazy prices and they still can't play it in MAME, but they won't even donate $1 to help get it emulated.

This screams 'cheapskates'. I figure if someone doesn't want to donate- they shouldn't be allowed to play that ever. That being said- there is probably a huge line of people already thinking to the day that it's emulated- and they won't have spent a penny. The game is a better game to me -knowing I worked for it- (though worth what it takes- I still don't think so).

And it's 2am, so if there's anything important in there- consider it a bonus.

Keade · Post by **Keade** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:26 pm

donated 25$

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:19 pm

Here's another idea: how about one of the owners of this PCB (on this forum) sends their PCB to Guru for dumping, and money from this fund is paid to the owner of the PCB? Let's say, $300 is paid to the PCB owner. The PCB owner is getting some of the cash back they paid for their PCB, they get to keep their PCB, and they help out getting it emulated too, which can only be a good thing for PCB owners - if your board dies one day, then I'm sure you wouldn't regret having once being part of the effort to get it dumped/emulated.

iatneH · Post by **iatneH** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:33 pm

From what I gather, a lot of surface-mount ICs need to be lifted off the board for dumping. I don't want that happening to MY PCB.

But I may donate a little bit later.

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:45 pm

Might be worth finding out if any chips would need to be removed then. Are there any hi-res pictures of both sides of this PCB? Might be worth sending them to Guru and asking if it looks like any chips would need to be removed.

Post by **Dave_K.** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:52 pm

A majority of the surface mount chips would need to be removed. There is no garuntee the board will be functioning when done, or even returned at all.

Another thing is a lot of chips on Ketsui are sanded, to make them unidentifiable. Someone (RTW) should probably send him a highres scan of DDPDOJ as a reference when the time comes...

eight · Post by **eight** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:57 pm

I donated 20 USD, could take a couple days though, because I had to first wire the money to my Paypal account (how lame is that?). I hope it works out, if not, someone will have to let me play 20 dollars in credits. *lol*

CyKill3r · Post by **CyKill3r** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 8:22 pm

Donated 10$

pixelcorps · Post by **pixelcorps** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 9:17 pm

now we're ROLLIN'!!

this is great guys - hopefully we can keep momentum!!

as for the rest of you, thanks for the advice / cynicsm / encouragement, but guess what??? PUT UP SOME CASH!! - you may think this is bullish, but the end result is what matters, the boards are out there, and we can buy one with a little time.

10 cents of opinion isn't going do as much good as a donation.

Battlesmurf · Post by **Battlesmurf** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:11 pm

Here's another idea: how about one of the owners of this PCB (on this forum) sends their PCB to Guru for dumping, and money from this fund is paid to the owner of the PCB? Let's say, $300 is paid to the PCB owner. The PCB owner is getting some of the cash back they paid for their PCB, they get to keep their PCB, and they help out getting it emulated too, which can only be a good thing for PCB owners - if your board dies one day, then I'm sure you wouldn't regret having once being part of the effort to get it dumped/emulated.

Like other people are saying- 300 isn't enough to cover if the pcb won't work anymore. If anything- if this game gets emulated- it's not going to help PCB owners retrieve any money spent on the game in the long run for starters

As for people's input not helping- I'm sure every bit of input helps in the long run- going into something half cocked has the potential to end up with someone's feelings hurt (or out a pcb) or money or whathaveyou. Lol..and besides- "we want your money not your opinion"-well, I shouldn't have to elaborate on that. With that being said- I wish you folks the best of luck : ) I am still on the ropes of whether or not to donate- I think I'm one of the many sitting back seeing how things go first.

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:39 pm

Battlesmurf wrote:
Here's another idea: how about one of the owners of this PCB (on this forum) sends their PCB to Guru for dumping, and money from this fund is paid to the owner of the PCB? Let's say, $300 is paid to the PCB owner. The PCB owner is getting some of the cash back they paid for their PCB, they get to keep their PCB, and they help out getting it emulated too, which can only be a good thing for PCB owners - if your board dies one day, then I'm sure you wouldn't regret having once being part of the effort to get it dumped/emulated.
Like other people are saying- 300 isn't enough to cover if the pcb won't work anymore. If anything- if this game gets emulated- it's not going to help PCB owners retrieve any money spent on the game in the long run for starters

My idea would be that an owner of the PCB would get $300 just for helping the community out, nothing else. I wasn't aware that this board would require desoldering chips. Of course, now that we do know, then it wouldn't be worth risking, if you're the owner of a PCB. If I owned this PCB, and someone offered me $300 just to loan it to someone to dump (without desoldering anything), then I'd certainly do it. Firstly, I'd be recouping $300 of my initial outlay for the PCB, secondly, it would be in my best interest that this board gets dumped, because as with any piece of hardware, there is no guarantee that it will work forever. If/when your board does die, you'll be pretty much hoping that someone had the hindsight to dump it.

pixelcorps · Post by **pixelcorps** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 1:16 am

it's very true, no hardware lasts forever - I think it's more to do with the risk of an accident during the desoldering/resoldering, or even getting it back.

at least this way, if it DOES survive the process, we can maybe even re-sell it, and at least try and recoup some cash.

this method is also a good test to see how many people in our tiny community actually want to be proactive instead of waiting for miracles to appear from nowhere, so far it seems the majority fall into the latter category, although i'd be delighted to eat my words.