shmup CRT TV buyers guide

[Inkvisitor]

Hello everyone !

Please help me select a CRT TV that is suitable for games.

The specs should atleast include:

* RGB SCART
* NTSC/PAL compatibility (redundant if RGB SCART exist?)
* Support for 60Hz
* Can be rotated to support TATE mode.

Weight and size/dimensions are important. I don't want a TV that tips over in TATE mode, nor should it be so bulky I strain my back every time I want to move it. So sizewise it's probably below 28" and it would be really nice if it came in black

The biggest hurdle so far is that it's almost impossible to figure out if it will tip over just by looking at a picture. Maybe some sort of support can be constructed ?

[ReKleSS]

I doubt you'll have problems with TVs tipping over, unless they have curved sides. I have a Loewe Calide 5072 and it fits all your requirements, except coming in black. It also happens to have a very good picture tube.

[D]

It might be beneficial to search on your local market place and search for a video monitor.
There is a brand called hantarex, they make really good monitors and you can get them pretty cheap and are ussualy very sturdy and very good for tating.
Good luck
BTW 99% of all tv's comply to your specs.

[elvis]

* RGB SCART

BTW 99% of all tv's comply to your specs.

Sadly not. Outside of Europe, RGB SCART CRT TVs are as rare as hen's teeth.

[Inkvisitor]

I have seen posts about hantarex and people says they are good. Only problem is finding one and the price. I live in sweden so finding one with RGB SCART is not really a problem, finding one that doesn't have curved sides is. I've been to a couple of stores already and the few CRTs they have also have curved sides. I guess rotating a LCD or plasma could work but I suspect the picture is better on a CRT.

Thanks for helping me out

[ReKleSS]

Curved sides aren't actually a problem - depending on the curve, it may end up angling the screen back, which is quite nice. If you can, try putting something flat against the side of the TV so you can see what kind of angle it will make with the stand. Curved sides feel safer too, the weight is more centered over the base. My TV:



(Holy hell this camera is bad under low light. The image sensor is noisy enough under decent light...)

[Nakano]

I use a Sony Trinitron 21" (the silver one), which can be tated and the screen quality is good. But you will get weird sound coming from the side where the speaker is lying on.

[Geezer]

Mine is curved, it doesn't cause any problems. 2nd pic is from my usual playing position





I wish the TV had image resizing controls, as you can see Ketsui doesn't fill the screen. Every other PCB or PS2/Saturn port I've had has produced as image too big for the screen so nothing has been perfect.

[nietzschedancing]

Looks nice Geezer. A curved one has an advantage for me as I have to sit on the floor looking down on the tele. I can rock a curved one back and see the bottom of the screen clearly, whereas with a straight one I can occasionally miss stray bullets.

[MKL]

True flat, easy to rotate being 21", great RGB picture, easily accessible service mode for geometry adjustments, mono audio, RGB and composite in (no S-Video), 250-270 euros a few years ago, probably cheaper now.

[Inkvisitor]

Great pictures. Now I feel more confident about buying those curved TVs.

As I already have an XRGB my other option is to get a big CRT computer monitor. I already use this method with a small monitor and it looks good. But I'm not sure which will look best. Straight up Saturn->RGB SCART or Saturn->XRGB->VGA ? If I go with the first one the saturn will match up 480i on the TV. The XRGB scales up the resolution and I'd have to add fake scanlines to get the same result, I'm not sure which is better.

Prices on CRT TVs have dropped dramaticly so there's no big loss if it turns out I like the XRGB method better.

[Kron]

When dealing with low resolution consoles like the Saturn, PSone and 15k arcade PCB's you'll get a much nicer picture through RGB scart to a CRT TV , As soon as you start scaling resolutions and adding fake scanlines to VGA monitors you've already removed most of the detail that was there to begin with.

[D]

When dealing with low resolution consoles like the Saturn, PSone and 15k arcade PCB's you'll get a much nicer picture through RGB scart to a CRT TV , As soon as you start scaling resolutions and adding fake scanlines to VGA monitors you've already removed most of the detail that was there to begin with.

Exactly, alot of people want to upscale lo res to high res.
But I guess for those without access to RGB-SCART sets, it might be better than s-video and composite.

[azmun]

When dealing with low resolution consoles like the Saturn, PSone and 15k arcade PCB's you'll get a much nicer picture through RGB scart to a CRT TV , As soon as you start scaling resolutions and adding fake scanlines to VGA monitors you've already removed most of the detail that was there to begin with.

I totally agree. However, it's worth noting that the quality of CRT TVs varies quite a bit. Also, it seems that not all TVs with SCART inputs support RGB. This might partially explain why some players swear they do not notice any differences between RGB and composite signals.

I'm currently using a LOEWE set and I'd say the image quality is as good as it gets when viewing low res games and not just on older consoles but relatively newer ones like Street Fighter 3: Third Strike on Dreamcast.

[Mikey]

I wish the TV had image resizing controls, as you can see Ketsui doesn't fill the screen. Every other PCB or PS2/Saturn port I've had has produced as image too big for the screen so nothing has been perfect.

Have you tried finding out how to access the service mode?

[Trevor spencer]

MKL i really like that set , is the picture fully adjustable in service mode so you can resize the screen to fit if you have a border problem ? also would you know if a sigma AV6000 supergun work with that set via jpn RGB scart ?

Thanks

[Trevor spencer]

also MKL can you tell me how to get into service mode on your screen ?thanks

[neorichieb1971]

SCART TV's support RGB through at least one socket. The old Euro standard did not support RGB.

On some TV's a AV input would need to be toggled twice, once for composite/svideo on one input, composite/RGB on the other.

If you can't see the difference you must be blind.

[MKL]

MKL i really like that set , is the picture fully adjustable in service mode so you can resize the screen to fit if you have a border problem ? also would you know if a sigma AV6000 supergun work with that set via jpn RGB scart ?

Yes you can adjust the picture as you wish. The 21-pin RGB connector used in Japan looks like scart but is wired differently so you would need to rewire the cable or make a new one.

also MKL can you tell me how to get into service mode on your screen ?thanks

On sony TVs of recent generation you enter service mode by pressing the "status" button on the remote followed by "5", "volume +" and "standby" with no more than one second between presses. Other brands use different combos though.

[Geezer]

Have you tried finding out how to access the service mode?

I've tried, I can't find any info

MKL, I'd love to find that set, but I think Sony have stopped selling CRTs in the UK!

[Trevor spencer]

Have you tried finding out how to access the service mode?

I've tried, I can't find any info

MKL, I'd love to find that set, but I think Sony have stopped selling CRTs in the UK!

Yeah unfortunatly 2 years ago i hate the way CRT's are looked down upon as low quality nowwa day as thats just bollocks ,

[Trevor spencer]

MKL i really like that set , is the picture fully adjustable in service mode so you can resize the screen to fit if you have a border problem ? also would you know if a sigma AV6000 supergun work with that set via jpn RGB scart ?

Yes you can adjust the picture as you wish. The 21-pin RGB connector used in Japan looks like scart but is wired differently so you would need to rewire the cable or make a new one.

also MKL can you tell me how to get into service mode on your screen ?thanks

On sony TVs of recent generation you enter service mode by pressing the "status" button on the remote followed by "5", "volume +" and "standby" with no more than one second between presses. Other brands use different combos though.

Thanks MKL

[Inkvisitor]

What are your thoughts on widescreen 16:9 format TVs ? Only a small amount of my games supports it, none of which are shmups.

On most TVs you can set the format manually. Useless as it may be, on 4:3 TVs you can set it to 16:9.
But how does it work on a 16:9 TV ? Can you set it to 4:3 and will it look ok ?

[nietzschedancing]

You should be able to select 4:3. You'll just have black borders around the image - not a problem, really, but can be a little off putting.

[Ed Oscuro]

My problem with CRTs is they use way too much power.

But even today they have nice characteristics. I'd say that once models with lumileds appear that they'll be as good as most CRTs ever were. The major issue for me with LCDs is that blacks aren't really black on any but the best models. That, and it takes a while for the pixels to twist to black on all but the best monitors. Right now I'm looking at LCD as a necessary evil until SEDtv (:lol:) comes out.

Widescreen also has me concerned...I'd hope that I could easily select a 4:3 ratio. Another problem, though, is that a widescreen monitor won't have the same height as my old screens for the cost...plus I don't think they make pivoting widescreen monitors.

With CRTs, it seems that even Wells Gardner is discontinuing most all their lines at an alarming rate...

I also found this summary of the state of the CRT market from Karl Lang, architect of the Sony Artisan, ColorMatch, and lots of other cool stuff.

It's sad that I need a new monitor at this time, but I'll probably be able to swap it out soon for another. It's sad, because my P110 seems to be starting to go bad (slight gray shadows to the right of things on screen). Of course, on top of that I'm sick and tired of it flipping the circuit breaker, which is probably harming my UPSes and everything else.

[Geezer]

MKL, is your TV leaning against the wall while tated?

Geezer

[MKL]

MKL, is your TV leaning against the wall while tated?

Geezer

No, it sits pretty firmly on its side (even if it's curved), no risk of falling backwards.

[Inkvisitor]

I found an interesting alternative: http://www.consumer.philips.com/consume ... 3HKFSESI5P

This is really just a regular TV but it has RGB, component and HDMI. Higher resolutions are thus downscaled. But that doesn't bother me as I'm not using any current gen consoles. Plus I could use the RGB SCART for saturn and component for my other 480p stuff. And I can get it new for 585 US $.

Seems all good. But this is a 100Hz TV and I hear 50Hz TVs can be more forgiving on lower quality signals.

Buying it new also seem safer considering I can return it if it breaks within the first 2 years. I'd have to get a second hand TV real real cheap to turn this one down.

[Inkvisitor]

So I went and bought that Philips 32PW9551 TV. A different forum were right about the geometry on this device, at factory settings the text is not perfectly aligned horizontally. Thankfully there is a setting for adjusting rotation. The TV is deeper than I imagined and the sides are curved. The bulky 50kg makes it difficult for one person to hold and move. In TATE it would probably be too unstable to stand on my homecrafted table.

Perhaps something can be constructed to make it stand safely ?

I guess I can play RS until I figure something out

Comparing with my XRGB/LCD, 480p looks better on this device, even when viewed from a short distance. It seems like a good TV and I like that it has both RGB, component and HDMI input.