Why no miss?

1up · Post by **1up** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:30 pm

In the glossary it says no miss means when you can complete a level in a shmup without dying.

so why no miss? As far as I can see you missed all the bullets and hit almost all enemy ships?
How did this expression originate? Is it engrish?

maybe its no miss(haps) aka no mistakes?

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:52 pm

No idea if it's engrish, but it could be ^_^. I know Dodonpachi gives a "no miss" bonus at the end of each stage so long as you haven't died, in arabic characters and all =)

Klatrymadon · Post by **Klatrymadon** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:59 pm

'Miss' has meant 'death' in loads of Japanese games, for years. No idea why! There isn't much we can do about these terms, really. While 'rank' is a woefully inadequate word for what it's actually supposed to denote, it just wouldn't be very convenient to try to change it. Or easy.

MJR · Post by **MJR** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:06 pm

I think first games I saw, not even video games, but Game & Watch electronic games from nintendo had 'Miss' meters - every time you screwed up, you got one 'miss' mark. Three misses was equal to game over. Same could be applied with having lives. I think it's self-explanatory, really.

ave · Post by **ave** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:07 pm

I'm not a native english speaker but I always thought "No miss" is like "nothing is missed (here: a life/ship ^^)".

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:13 pm

No miss = no death
End of story.

MovingTarget · Post by **MovingTarget** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:16 pm

Uh yea, but WHY is the question!

I think nothing missed doesnt hold up because you can still use bombs, I think its just something thats gotten messed up in translation.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:38 pm

MovingTarget wrote:Uh yea, but WHY is the question!

Why anything? B/c that is the word for it.

MovingTarget · Post by **MovingTarget** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:53 pm

Stop trying to be a smartarse man. Its meant to be in english, but 'no miss' doesnt actually make any sense, at least in english terms. If you get a no miss the enemy has missed you every single time! and its not like you've been missing the enemy! If the developers are going to use english they might as well make it understandable to english speakers. Hardly anyone knows why it means no deaths, only that it does.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:01 pm

Why do feet smell and noses run? If you try picking apart the nuances of the English Language, you're only going to hurt your brain. A lot of it doesn't make sense, at least not to anyone but the originator of whatever phrase (and even then sometimes you have to wonder). Really I'd just not worry about it. Everyone who plays shooters knows what you're talking about, and if your point is getting accross, do semantics really matter?

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:05 pm

MovingTarget wrote:Stop trying to be a smartarse man. Its meant to be in english, but 'no miss' doesnt actually make any sense, at least in english terms.

I'm not being a smartass, I'm being dead serious. Just b/c a word or phrase is derived from English doesn't mean it is English. "No miss" is indeed a Japanese phrase. It just happens to use two English words.

Japanese only has a shitload of words that are derived from other languages but sound silly or grammatically incorrect when a native speaker of that langauge hears them. I would never tell someone they "have a large compass" in English if they happen to take big steps. I would even say it is bad English colloquially. It is not only fair game, but common in Japanese.

I will take a stab though for people that insist it make sense in English.
Miss = error, fuck-up, etc. (example: I missed... eg, I made a mistake).
Could even be derived from mistake, mismatch, etc.

MovingTarget · Post by **MovingTarget** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:16 pm

The point is that nobody can actually answer the topic creater. All they or any other english speaker wants to know is why the word 'miss' is used.. Its funny how nobody actually has a definite answer, just what they suspect.

I assume its actually derived from no mistake, or at least is meant to mean that.

On a lighter note, no miss bonuses are fun!

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:18 pm

MovingTarget wrote:All they or any other english speaker wants to know is why the word 'miss' is used.. Its funny how nobody actually has a definite answer, just what they suspect.

Ummm.... I gave two examples, one of which is correct.

Why do they say "I missed" a flop in Texas Hold 'em. B/c that's the way languages work.

shoe-sama · Post by **shoe-sama** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:18 pm

All I know is no miss sounds pretty badass.

Triple Lei · Post by **Triple Lei** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:30 pm

I read somewhere that it was really "no mistake," abbreviated to 「ノ　ミス」... then probably made into English as "no miss."

Or something, I dunno.

sikraiken · Post by **sikraiken** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:46 pm

Well, I think I might have the best answer so far. (MJR's is pretty good as well, though - looking at gameandwatch.com I was able to find one that had "miss" on the screen from 1981.)

When you put Bosconian on Auto difficulty, and you do not die on a level, you get that. The game was released in 1981. I don't know if there are other games before then that also said no miss, but I always remembered that from when I used to play the game.

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 7:53 pm

Can someone tell me why the sky is?

MovingTarget · Post by **MovingTarget** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:10 pm

Yes but I'd have to read a lot of books, and my time is valuable.

Limbrooke · Post by **Limbrooke** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:07 pm

GaijinPunch wrote:No miss = no death
End of story.

Holy shit. I was always under the impression this meant "all enemies destroyed", then I played Mushihimesama and when that message appeared I knew something was wrong.

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:18 pm

Serves you right for not reading the glossary!

Kaspal · Post by **Kaspal** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 12:12 am

Limbrooke wrote:
GaijinPunch wrote:No miss = no death
End of story.
Holy shit. I was always under the impression this meant "all enemies destroyed", then I played Mushihimesama and when that message appeared I knew something was wrong.

it depends on the game...

i've seen the nomiss in games for takin down every single enemy on the level...

also, i've seen the no miss thing in games for clearin up a level w/o loosing a life... so, both cases are right for me... even tho, i think the most common used case is for the latter one.

like gaijin punch was sayin, i think of a no miss like when you say "i missed the ball"... its like sayin "i failed to hit the ball"....

cigsthecat · Post by **cigsthecat** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 12:16 am

Specineff wrote:Can someone tell me why the sky is?

http://www.sciencemadesimple.com/sky_blue.html

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 12:29 am

like gaijin punch was sayin, i think of a no miss like when you say "i missed the ball"... its like sayin "i failed to hit the ball"....

But my example still means "did not make a mistake".... any time means you've killed all the enemies, they're actually using the phrase improperly.

doctorx0079 · Post by **doctorx0079** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:16 am

I think mostly it comes from DDP. If you get through the level without losing a ship you get a "No Miss" bonus. End of story.

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:18 am

cigsthecat wrote:
Specineff wrote:Can someone tell me why the sky is?
http://www.sciencemadesimple.com/sky_blue.html

You missed the reference. Not why the sky is blue (light and air and colors, I know.) Can you tell me why the sky is?

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:25 am

I always assumed that when you die in a shmup (or in life) you miss your target of staying alive. If you don't die, you don't miss. I.e. no miss. End of story.

Btw, that's a nice example of the existential use of 'is', specineff. I'll have to remember that the next time I have to teach the different uses of 'is'.

Pixel_Outlaw · Post by **Pixel_Outlaw** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:43 am

It could be a remnant from the old sega gun shooting games. Or any old game of accuracy a miss is a loss. You loose because you missed the chance to win.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 3:19 am

Never have I seen a thread with so many "end of story"s!

doctorx0079 · Post by **doctorx0079** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 3:30 am

twe wrote:Never have I seen a thread with so many "end of story"s!

Everyone steals from GaijinPunch. End of story.

shoe-sama · Post by **shoe-sama** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 3:54 am

What the hell kinda story is that?