Official: Mushihime-sama Futari (1.0, 1.5, BLT)

NTSC-J · Post by **NTSC-J** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:32 am

Icarus wrote:
FrederikJurk wrote:Don´t get upset because I called the rank in the original Garegga "broken". I am not saying the game is shit (which it certainly isn´t), but I am saying that a certain imbalance caused a very specific way of playing the game. The revisions balanced the rank out, but nobody is playing the China or Denmark version, because they LACK the challenging rank control mechanics. Or maybe I am wrong and the revisions for the other countries are just "softened" versions.
The Japanese version is the correct version of the game because it has the proper balance between scoring and rank control. You wouldn't be able to score nearly as much points in any of the other revisions because of the hugely altered rank system and the change to the Extend limits causing the imbalance in the scoring system. So in that effect, the so called "tweaked" revisions are the "broken" revisions.

Ever considered that the Japanese revision was the way Raizing wanted the game to be, and that the other revisions were made to appease us filthy foreigners who were pissing and moaning that the game was too unfair in its original design? (Wow, doesn't that sound familiar.) Would you be able to score nearly as much if you removed Extends and fucked with the rank systems in Batrider, Bakraid and Ibara? I doubt it.

Dontcha just love it when someone calls the true version of a Raizing system "broken". -_-;;

Defensive much? No need to bite someone's head off because they dared question the all-mighty Raizing's game design. Revisions were done to the original release, it's a valid observation. Chill. You seem to be falling under a Randorama-like state of elitism with shooters lately, not cool.

As annoying as this revision of Mushi Futari is, I'll gladly take a v1.5 over some more auto-fire hack bullshit. Although it would be nice if they took a little more time with these games instead of giving us these extended loke tests.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:39 am

I understand you guys saying I should keep the original board because it'll be rare or whatever. But honestly I'd rather play the new revised board for a couple reasons. First, I don't have the money to buy ANOTHER Mushi futari board, so I have to choose, and as far as gameplay goes it's most logical to choose the upgraded version. Second, I've realised the original board is broken in a few ways, in terms of gameplay. The characters are really unbalanced, for example Abnormal Palm is really strong in the first level, but by level 3 and 4 it's near impossible to do anything with him because he suddenly becomes weak; There aren't enough bombs in the game (6 slots but only 5 total? Come on); Some of the boss patterns are cheap/flawed/way too hard; there's no end credits! So, I'm pretty confident the revised version will fix all this and the game will be overall more enjoyable. They've had nearly 2 months to fine tune it, fix the bugs, and add an Ultra mode. I'm pretty confident in Ikeda, he could have just left it as it is but he apparently wasn't happy with the original version and wanted to make things right. I'm really looking forward to it, I'll have my ver1.5 board waiting for me at the post office on Jan 4th when I get back from my Christmas vacation.

Post by **Icarus** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:49 am

NTSC-J wrote:Defensive much? No need to bite someone's head off because they dared question the all-mighty Raizing's game design. Revisions were done to the original release, it's a valid observation. Chill. You seem to be falling under a Randorama-like state of elitism with shooters lately, not cool.

Only when it comes to Raizing. Eons of arguments and flamewars revolving around them and their games can make one quite irritable.
You should know that by now. ^_-

I just think the observation, while certainly valid, is wrong.

@twe:
Good point. It is up to you though. If it were me, I'd keep v1.0 because its harder to play (even if it hasn't been balanced properly), but the arguments for changing to v1.5 are fair and valid, and it'd be nice to see the new Ultra Mode.

I just find it baffling how they rushed it out without finalising everything.

Herr Schatten · Post by **Herr Schatten** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:16 am

Icarus wrote:
NTSC-J wrote:Defensive much? No need to bite someone's head off because they dared question the all-mighty Raizing's game design. Revisions were done to the original release, it's a valid observation. Chill. You seem to be falling under a Randorama-like state of elitism with shooters lately, not cool.
Only when it comes to Raizing. Eons of arguments and flamewars revolving around them and their games can make one quite irritable.

That's perfectly comprehensible.

Still, it starts to get really annoying that you and Twiddle seem to immediately jump at the throat of anyone who doesn't even try to start a flamewar in any way, but merely expresses the opinion that some random aspect of [insert random Raizing game] is flawed or just not perfect.

As unimaginable as it may seem to a Raizing fan, there are legit reasons for disliking their games or certain aspects thereof. It's not like they are sacrosanct. I'd appreciate it, if you saved your righteous anger for those who really try to start a flame war instead of jumping at just anyone who dares to question the ingeniousness of Raizing's designs.

Post by **Icarus** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:02 am

Why not? Its a way of seeing where people stand. What really interests me is when people act defensive first, as if they expect to have their head bitten off - that way, I know they have a genuine opinion, and not simply starting shit to get a rise out of particular people.

And sure, people can dislike certain aspects. People can also make grossly inaccurate statements. If corrections need to be made before people understand, then so be it. Rather that then have ten pages of shit on the main forum with people pissing and moaning about "X function breaking X game" for the umpteenth time. And as fun as they were in the past, I'm getting bored of seeing that shit. Better to snuff that fire out quickly, then let it develop. Either that or let the bitches wallow in their ignorance, and redirect all cries for help with the simple "go away and read the strategy thread".

Lets face it, nothing starts an argument better than Raizing.

</ot>

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:03 am

I wonder what it'd be like to hang out with NTSC-J in real life.

It'd probably be pretty chill.

NTSC-J · Post by **NTSC-J** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:37 am

Indeed. Everyone should get the chance at least once in their lives, but too few have the pleasure.

gionmatsuli · Post by **gionmatsuli** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:32 pm

One of my friend who works for AMI told me that I could send my Pcb of Futari.
I wonder if I will send it or no

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:34 pm

Send it back gionmatsuli. We can open a new high score thread with ver 1.5, and compete in ULTRA mode.

Kiken · Post by **Kiken** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:53 pm

Neon wrote:I wonder what it'd be like to hang out with NTSC-J in real life.

It'd probably be pretty chill.

Minzoku and I got to hang with NTSC-J for 2 days while we were visiting Japan. It certainly was chill.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:35 pm

NTSC-J wrote:Indeed. Everyone should get the chance at least once in their lives, but too few have the pleasure.

Some that do fuck it up and get married.

Just kidding. I'm glad I got married... most of the time. I still wouldn't mind spending a month or two back in 1998 though.

Rastan78 · Post by **Rastan78** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:47 pm

FrederikJurk wrote:I wonder what happens with the sent-in old PCBs, though. And if I was Cave, I´d just leave it as it is - thinking about it, the japanese Garegga was broken in it´s exaggerating rank increase too, and nobody plays the revisions with mild rank because the first one is the "true" version.

Let me just join Icarus in jumping down your throat for this one.

The other revisions are the broken ones! Rank might be milder, but you have 3 lives to beat the game on, end of story. Also, you can't do any of the cool scoring tricks. You're forced to play for survival and medals only. The highest possible scores would be waaaay less than with the Japan rev. I wouldn't call the other revs broken, just completely neutered. If you know about a lot of the scoring methods, then sit down and spend some time with say the China/Denmark revision, you'll see that the gameplay is severely limited compared to the Japanese one.

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:18 am

Oh boy oh boy, I didn´t mean to turn this into another "rank sucks/rules" thread.

EDIT: Oh my god Herr Schatten, what happened to you??? You used to be such a pretty little star. You´ve got HUGE eyebrows and look pretty unhappy. Want to talk about it?

Rastan78 · Post by **Rastan78** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:58 am

My only point was that with Garegga it was more a case of the butchering/dumbing down for other regions that used to happen a lot (of course making the original more desirable to the anal purists like me and Icarus). There was never a replacement Japanese ROM that was enhanced or anything. That's different than with Mushi Futari where there's actually an enhanced game with Ultra mode and fixed bugs. Cool news BTW.

Randorama · Post by **Randorama** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:22 am

NTSC-J wrote:

Chill. You seem to be falling under a Randorama-like state of elitism with shooters lately, not cool.

Since everyone needs to post an off-topic comment once per month, here's mine*.

My elitism roughly amounts to motivating one's opinions with facts. It is ok if someone doesn't know a game engine and then claims that it has faults (whatever they are) due to its limited knowledge. It is not ok if he just claims something out of the blue and pretends to defend his or her position just because we're doomed to live in some post-modern world.

In the first case, the conclusions he can draw may be faulty or uncomplete, but the fruit of a reasoning process based on facts. In the second case, he just hates something for the hell of it (like e.g. people claiming that non-white human beings are inferior forms of life).

In general I tend to do the former and not the latter. I do it even outside "work" (zomg!) because I find it a good method to discern about things in general, not just in the very restricted domain of "what pays my rent". My STs are the result of this approach.

Random chit-chat is ok, but honestly I tend to get extremely bored when one tries to convince me about something I already have a firm idea about. If one presents to me the same argument over and over again (e.g. " Garegga rank rocks/sucks!!1!") in the same form, without minimal changes or extra proofs to support it (possibly pertinent and valid), chances are that I will simply ignore it. I always ignore ill-thought arguments, even if repeated 200 times.

Most of the arguments outside the academic field (there's some elitism for you!) are just that: shouting the same line until the other side gives up and accepts it. I don't see much intellectual growth (whatever it is) on these boards, so i don't feel the need to post much (if any at all). If others are fine with repeating the same four lines over and over again, more power to them. People change, at least I do. Be seeing you!

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:17 am

LOL @ this thread derailing at lightspeed... anyone up for a new Futari thread and letting thisone die

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:35 pm

Looking back my thoughts just ran down the wrong road as I forgot that the revisions are "europeanised" versions and not later, BETTER revisions because I just saw the revisions in the MAME list and thought "later release + less harsh rank = >>better<< version". A simple, logical mistake.

NOW PLEASE LET US GO ON-TOPIC AGAIN.

Plasmo · Post by **Plasmo** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:14 pm

"later release + less harsh rank = >>better<< version". A simple, logical mistake.

i cant see ANY logic at all here even if the other versions wouldnt be europeanised.

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:23 pm

Plasmo wrote:
"later release + less harsh rank = >>better<< version". A simple, logical mistake.
i cant see ANY logic at all here even if the other versions wouldnt be europeanised.

If a company releases a board and then a revision, for what other reasons would they do it if not for fixing bugs? This is what we are talking about in the case of Futari here. So, I believed the later revisions were "fixed" ones. I did not bare in mind that those revision were aimed to be playing in totally different countries. So the japanese, "official" version has no revisions, and therefore is the way Raizing wanted it to be. For the love of god, I can´t describe it any better. I regret kicking this discussion off already. Saying that a Raizing game is broken (even though I didn´t mean it in the sense some you seem to interpret it and now taking it back - not because I am too wimpy but because I thought about it again) seems to be not politically correct.

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:05 pm

Randorama wrote:
My elitism roughly amounts to motivating one's opinions with facts. It is ok if someone doesn't know a game engine and then claims that it has faults (whatever they are) due to its limited knowledge. It is not ok if he just claims something out of the blue and pretends to defend his or her position just because we're doomed to live in some post-modern world.

In the first case, the conclusions he can draw may be faulty or uncomplete, but the fruit of a reasoning process based on facts. In the second case, he just hates something for the hell of it (like e.g. people claiming that non-white human beings are inferior forms of life).

Opinions on any and all media are personalized interpretations and gut reactions to design and content, not facts. There are good opinions and bad opinions, which are determined by how a person justifies their opinion, but let's face it arguments about games aren't like arguments about fact based hard sciences. They're like arguments about Naked Lunch. Some people think it's an innovative, classic piece of satire up there with Gulliver's Travels and others think it's an vile piece of pornographic trash spawned from a depraved junkie's obscene imagination.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:07 pm

FrederikJurk wrote: NOW PLEASE LET US GO ON-TOPIC AGAIN.

Yeah, could you guys take all this Raizing and related stuff into another thread? Thanks.

Randorama · Post by **Randorama** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:28 pm

Acid King replying with the usual postmodern rant plus I game I'm not interested with (for the moment) equal Sorry guys for the spam.

N.6

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:53 pm

Randorama is my Comrade

I hope you feel the same R.

Elitism isn't bad as long as you're trying to help everyone else be 1337 too

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:41 pm

First pics of Ultra mode (just the menu screen), apparently:

Seems they've reverted back to Katakana for the mode names, instead of the English found in ver 1.0.

The "yes/no" options are pretty cool this time. You can select "no", or "proceed with an honorable death".

NTSC-J · Post by **NTSC-J** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 3:34 am

twe wrote:First pics of Ultra mode (just the menu screen), apparently:

Seems they've reverted back to Katakana for the mode names, instead of the English found in ver 1.0.

The "yes/no" options are pretty cool this time. You can select "no", or "proceed with an honorable death".

haha, kickass. On the background graphics I can make out the word "inferno" and the kanji for "hell". Looks like Ultra will be a good time.

Shalashaska · Post by **Shalashaska** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:15 am

twe wrote:The "yes/no" options are pretty cool this time. You can select "no", or "proceed with an honorable death".

Haha...that's great. It's just a shame that I (and a lot of other forum members) will probably never have a chance to play it.

By the way, could somebody point me to a video of the 4th stage? I have videos of every stage but the 4th one and I'd like to see this boss that twe and NTSC-J were talking about.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:24 am

2ch guys are reporting Hey arcade in Akihabara has three version 1.5 PCBs running now, apparently they were installed today (a bit earlier than the nationwide distribution of the new PCB).

Here are the first pics of actual Ultra mode gameplay (from a cellphone, low quality):

Apparently there is a "version 1.5" on the title screen now, to distinguish it from the original version. No word yet on how Maniac or Original modes were changed. Will post details once I know.

Shalashaska · Post by **Shalashaska** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:29 am

Sweet......bring on the video storm!

Thanks for all the updates twe, keep em rollin!

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 6:34 am

Randorama wrote:Acid King replying with the usual postmodern rant plus I game I'm not interested with (for the moment) equal Sorry guys for the spam.

N.6

And Rando replies with his usual pretentious cop out.

I started a thread in off topic if you care to participate.

NTSC-J · Post by **NTSC-J** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:23 pm

twe wrote:2ch guys are reporting Hey arcade in Akihabara has three version 1.5 PCBs running now, apparently they were installed today (a bit earlier than the nationwide distribution of the new PCB).

Nope, I went by there today and they still had the original versions running. I asked one of the staff there about it and he said he still hasn't heard when they're getting ver.1.5 in, so I guess those shots were from somewhere else. Doesn't make much of a difference to anyone here, but I was disappointed