Help with the HRAP 1 Version 2

[Wolf44]

Having alot of problems re registering on SRK and am in need of some input and advice over the HRAP1 version 2 stick.

First up I am using this stick for both shmups and fighters, had it a few days and am getting used to it ( its been since 1994 since I used a stick ) and I have a few questions for anyone with experience with this stick and sticks in general.

1- What model of sanwa stick is in the HRAP1 v2, and what is my best option or model of sanwa if I wanted to replace this stick. Ie is there much better and newer models that have quick disconects that would be worth replacing or is this perfectly good ( its not broken or anything like that ). Supposedly this version 2 model has a new mounting plate which has a problem with mounting a seimitsu in it i believe.

2- How long do sanwa sticks generaly last ? I dont button mash and I certainly dont grind the stick or anything like that, just curious on the average life span of these sticks.

3- Has anyone noticed any issues when pulling off super combos with these sticks ? I have found the last few days I am getting characters standard moves off very easily, almost too easily ( like for ryu etc ) but when it comes to doing say, the super combos with the double qcf + p or k sometimes its goes off on time other times it seems a little sketchy and sometimes it takes a hell of alot of practice, would this be a fault of the non sanwa buttons in it or a stick issue itself ?

I have been thinking this could be because the balltop and stick itself rotate, which could cause the QCF to not register even though I am doing the motion.

4- The stock buttons vs real sanwa buttons, just how big a diference is there for someone who has never used the buttons ? Are they much much more accurate or is this people just being uber anal and wanting the very best ( nothing wrong with that ) vs their real quality ?

Thanks for any help

btw, I have noticed my score and survival in shmups since using this to have improved a hell of alot!

[ReKleSS]

1) The stick is a Sanwa JLF-TY-8Y. It's still a current model - Sanwa's flagship stick, as I understand.

2) I can't answer this for certain, but by the look and feel of the construction, it seems hard for a single user to wear it out. I really can't imagine wearing out either of mine, anyway.

3) I can get my supers in SF3S or guilty gear without much trouble...

4) I use OBSF-30RG buttons (reed switched) because SAM had them for sale... they're much smoother than the original ones. I can't compare with the normal sanwa buttons, but I find the RGs are much easier to use. But for the price, they'd better be.

[Daigohji]

1. From what I've heard, the HRAP1 v1 had both horizontal (Sanwa) and vertical (Seimitsu) mountings, while the v2 only has a horizontal mounting plate.

3. I've had my HRAP1 v2 for a couple of months now and I still occasionally have trouble with double QC super moves. I don't think it's the buttons though, since it seems to vary between different 2D fighters, and I have no problems pulling off basic special moves. My guess is that some games are more anal about stick input than others. For example, one game might still activate a super move regardless of whether you go through neutral, DF or DB between the first and second QCs; another game might only tolorate you going through neutral or rolling back down through the diagonal. Another problem could come from jamming the stick right into the diagonal, which slows your input. All I can advise is to hit practice mode and repeat those double QC moves over and over until the right motion for the stick is hardwired to your brain. When starting with any new controller the greatest problem can stem from having to think about the motions instead of pulling them off instictively.

[Savory]

This is probably a stupid question, but how can you tell the difference between the v1 and v2? I just bought an HRAP from NCSX.com last week and am curious which it is even though I have no intention of modding it. Not yet anyway.

Wolf44, I also noticed major improvements in my scores after switching to the HRAP. I love it!

[Daigohji]

Not a stupid question, as it doesn't say anywhere on the product or the box which version it is (not that I noticed anyway). The top of the HRAP1 v1 has a mirror finish. The HRAP1 v2 has a grey textured grid pattern under a smooth translucent layer, which I'm told is the same as the top of the HRAP2..

[azmun]

1- What model of sanwa stick is in the HRAP1 v2, and what is my best option or model of sanwa if I wanted to replace this stick?

Your version of HRAP uses the Sanwa JLF-TP-8Y-SK stick. This is also known as the virtua fighter 4 stick. JLF-TP-8Y-SK is the not the same as JLF-TP-8Y. I can personally notice a different response (SK feels a bit lighter and faster). No need to change the stock stick but if you feel you must, then I'd consider two alternatives: Sanwa JLF-TP-8Y or Seimitsu LS-32-01 as these are my preferred sticks for 2d fighters.

2- How long do sanwa sticks generaly last ? I dont button mash and I certainly dont grind the stick or anything like that, just curious on the average life span of these sticks.

Since these are arcade grade parts, they are heavy duty and have been rigourously tested. I'd say they should last you a life time.

3- Has anyone noticed any issues when pulling off super combos with these sticks ? I have found the last few days I am getting characters standard moves off very easily, almost too easily ( like for ryu etc ) but when it comes to doing say, the super combos with the double qcf + p or k sometimes its goes off on time other times it seems a little sketchy and sometimes it takes a hell of alot of practice, would this be a fault of the non sanwa buttons in it or a stick issue itself ?

I've seen many of the top players using unmodded HRAP. They can pull off all the moves and combos flawlessly. Either you need more practice or you just can't get used to the hardware.

4- The stock buttons vs real sanwa buttons, just how big a diference is there for someone who has never used the buttons ? Are they much much more accurate or is this people just being uber anal and wanting the very best ( nothing wrong with that ) vs their real quality ?

If you've never used the buttons, you probably won't notice much difference initially. However, if you play alot on Sanwa push buttons, you will eventually notice that there is quite a huge difference. In terms of which is more accurate, I can't say for sure. Most will agree though that Sanwas are the most sensitive and require the least effort the press.

[Wolf44]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Aside from the fact its been mentioned the real diferences from the HRAP 1v1 vs v2 is version 2 has the same plate art/layer as the hrap 2 and also the mounting plate has been changed from the hrap v1 meaning you cannot or you would have an uber hard time mounting a seimitsu stick in the hrap v2. ( as in joe average ).

Yea I did alot of testing today, starting with CFJ, 3S/HSFA, SFAA and CCC1, this could be just me and I must admit I am a total scrub ( but im practicing and trying to learn to get better daily ) when it comes to fighter game mechanics and stats etc, I found it very very easy pulling off supers in both SFAA and 3S, what I experienced was that CCC SFII versions and the SFAC versions of SFII seemed very "stiff" or unaccurate when pulling off dragon punches and sometimes the supers, where as the hurricane kicks and fireballs were easy to pull off in all games.

This could really just be me or maybe these moves were a bit harder to input or pull off in SFII ??? As an example I can do dragon punches with ken and ryu in CFJ and 3S 90% of the time I want to do them, and the double qcf for their supers just as easily, when I try to do a dragon punch in SFII its like I can maybe do them 25-50% of the time, I found doing a constant qcf type motion very fast on SFII seems to make them go off, when I input that on 3S its like...instant....no problems...on SFAA its also pretty easy although it does not seem as smooth as pulling off supers in 3S.

For shmups I am finding it alot more relaxing and easier to avoid enemy shots, feels much more natural and smooth when dodging or getting into those temp safe zones with like the moving walls in GV, the buttons are way more easier on my fingers too ( and no I dont use the rapid fire I think thats just CHEAP ).

I believe it is something that is probably going to take me at least a month to fully get used to, as in just knowing what all 8 buttons are without looking at them once in a while, the stick I do find very precise and from switching back to the ps2 pad I can already tell in the long run I wont be going back to that TURD unless I am forced to for games like MGS etc, I might even use this for FF if its possible. I can for sure see why so many people swear by these, it really is starting to give me that feeling of gamepad vs keyboard and mouse for FPS, where as the stick is THE controler to use for shmups and fighters ( imo ).

Think I will order Ibara and Melty Blood this week, I am getting so addicted to these games using this stick.

[Paik4Life]

Your version of HRAP uses the Sanwa JLF-TP-8Y-SK stick. This is also known as the virtua fighter 4 stick. JLF-TP-8Y-SK is the not the same as JLF-TP-8Y. I can personally notice a different response (SK feels a bit lighter and faster). No need to change the stock stick but if you feel you must, then I'd consider two alternatives: Sanwa JLF-TP-8Y or Seimitsu LS-32-01 as these are my preferred sticks for 2d fighters.

Actually, they are in fact the same exact stick. The only difference is that the SK has a pre-installed JLF-CD (shaft cover) on it. There is no structural or mechanical difference aside from that. The microswitches are the same, as are the shaft length, spring hardness, and throw. If you feel any difference it would only be in your mind or because one stick is more worn-in than the other.

EDIT: Just some proof:
http://akihabarashop.com/products.html

All JLF-TP-8Y sticks are the same. Extensions are only for added features like 8YT is for the flat mounting plate. 8YS is for the s-shaped mounting plate. The only JLF that's at all different is the discontinued JLF-TM-8 series (http://www.sanwa-d.co.jp/p_joy-stick3.htm ) which used different microswitches. Actually even the Flash1 is pretty much a JLF except for the PCB and the plastic and rubber rings (used to protect the Flash1 PCB).

~Paik

[azmun]

Actually, they are in fact the same exact stick. The only difference is that the SK has a pre-installed JLF-CD (shaft cover) on it. There is no structural or mechanical difference aside from that. The microswitches are the same, as are the shaft length, spring hardness, and throw. If you feel any difference it would only be in your mind or because one stick is more worn-in than the other.

I don't agree. I've got both and got em brand new. Like I said, most cannot distinguish between the two. But a difference does exist. How do you know for certain there is no mechanical difference? And where do you get the information they share the same shaft length, spring hardness, and throw? If you look at the link you provided, there is a difference of 2g in the weight. Don't tell me the pre-installed shaft cover accounts for this.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

I recall that the Hori produced Tekken 5 joystick that came bundled with the USA region special bundled package is basically a Hori RAP joystick base but replaced with generic Hori stock arcade stick controller and generic Hori push buttons + no auto-fire switching for the buttons whatsoever.

By simply replacing the stock Hori joystick & push buttons with Japanese made Sanwa or Seimitsu joystick & push button setup, one has a world class arcade joystick for use with PS2, PS2 to PC via USB, or if further modded, then it could be used on a Supergun setup. Of course with some custom artwork, then the Tekken 5 artwork panel could be swapped with something else of your liking. ^_~

Hori did distribute the Hori Fighting Stick PS joystick (for use with the PSX) for the USA back in 1997 and retailed for $59.99 USD. I bought one used for a mere $7.50 USD from my local Funcoland back in 2000. ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Paik4Life]

You can dispute it all you'd like, but unfortunately, you're wrong. The shaft cover weight would account for the difference. 2 grams is roughly the weight of the shaft cover addition (if you go down the product section they even have the JLF-CD and standard dust covers and their weights). Also, those weight measurements were taken by Per (aka TheRealNeoGeo) so aren't official weights in any case. But his measurements are accurate. If you'd like, go ahead and take off the shaft and dust cover from your JLF-TP-8Y and 8Y-SK and then weigh them. Hell, even dismantle them and you will see that there is no difference in any of the pieces.

Here is a shitty web-translated version.

http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... S:official


The differences in each sub-category are outlined. Note, it does not say anything about mechanical differences in any of these. If you go to page 3 of the joystick online catalogue you will see JLF-TM-8 series which uses a different microswitch and no PCB (TP-MA). The TP-MA is also described as the PCB of the JLF series.

I could honestly go on and on, but it's rather pointless since anyone should understand by now that they are the same stick. But please go ahead and think they are different if that is what you truly believe.

EDIT: Thanks Per for helping me to try and point out all of the sources of info to disprove this. Also for correcting some of my mistakes in my previous post about JLF-TM series.

~Paik

[azmun]

The differences in each sub-category are outlined. Note, it does not say anything about mechanical differences in any of these. If you go to page 3 of the joystick online catalogue you will see JLF-TM-8 series which uses a different microswitch and no PCB (TP-MA). The TP-MA is also described as the PCB of the JLF series.

I could honestly go on and on, but it's rather pointless since anyone should understand by now that they are the same stick. But please go ahead and think they are different if that is what you truly believe.

Ok, thanks for perpetuating this popular misconception. It does not say they are different. But where does it mention that they are the same? In any case, I am not saying they have different parts. What I am saying is that they have different response. Whether this is a result of some difference in internal mechanisms or merely adjustments or fine tuning, I cannot say. Why do you think they call this the VF4 stick? Because it has a shaft cover? I think that's rather trivial. Anyone can outfit the standard JLF-TP-8Y with a shaft cover. But that does not make it the same as the SK. Again and I stand, they are both similar, not identical.

[Paik4Life]

Haha, I honestly feel stupid for even posting a response again. I think more than enough obvious evidence has shown that they are the same stick. While you have "I think it feels different" as your burden of proof.

There shouldn't be a reason for Sanwa to say the sticks are the exact same because they are presented on the webpage and in the catalog in a manner that logically implies that they are the same. It makes more sense for the company to outline differences in the models in a series than it does to outline the similarities because it's more likely that the list of differences between products in the same series would be far less than a list of the similarities.

Yes, a JLF-TP-8Y-SK IS a JLF fitted with a JLF-CD. Don't you think that if there were differences they would list that on the webpage or catalog? They go out of the way to mention that it has a shaft cover but not that it performs differently? They also mention that JLF-TM-8 series is different because it uses different microswitches and they put it on a separate page. There is no "fine-tuning" to JLF-TP-8 series because all the parts are the same parts.

It would be so easy to disprove you by asking Per to e-mail Sanwa since he does so regularly, but it would be a total waste of his time and the person at Sanwa. I also have no doubt that you'll refute it anyways saying something of the sort that the person he talked to is probably just a customer service rep that doesn't know the product.

So please, until YOU can provide some sort of evidence that shows them to be different, don't go against what the widely accepted, don't START any "misconceptions."

~Paik

[Wolf44]

LOL

Would anyone know if Sanwa makes a special "rounded" ball top ? I was looking for something looking like this }D molded in purple! with a big ol Ep stamped on it^^

Cmon guys we got the answers ( and thanks ) lets just end the thread ?

[Paik4Life]

If you'd like you can go to this thread (a Sanwa/Seimitsu FAQ that I posted) and it has links for both the most recent Sanwa and Seimitsu catalogs.

I'm not sure what kind of balltop you're looking for but they don't offer any other shaped balltops (except larger and smaller sizes).

Seimitsu offers translucent balltops but they are the same shape.

~Paik