Yuzo Koshiro is making new MD shmup.

[Faith]

Do mods want to add game title to the Subject of this thread? Think it will make searching it a bit easier @_@"...

[it290]

Got the clear yesterday and noticed in the credits that Joe Redifer was one of the voice actors listed. Will have to see if I can pick out which voices are his next time I play. I suspect he’s the ‘shoot the central unit’ guy maybe?

[FunktionJCB]

Here's an article on Earthion, with some info on the making of the game, plus another confirmation that this is intended to be the start of a new line of retro games by Ancient's "sub-label" YKGGG:

https://www.timeextension.com/features/ ... -really-is

[Sumez]

It's true! I live in New Jersey, the most population dense part of America. If I want to play an Exa Arcadia machine, I have to drive minimum an hour over to New York State, or longer to Philadelphia. Both of these trips are pretty un-doable most of the time with my full-time nightshift schedule.

At least you don't have to drive through multiple countries to get to one, like most of the rest of the world
The only reason I've even tried one is that I'm super lucky to have one really crazy friend with spare money to spend on dumb things, and who lives only 2 hours away.

I'm not sure I've mentioned this enough, but fuck Exa.
But people are free to like it of course. People can do any weird thing they want

[Skykid]

I find this plays better on the Mega Drive. Anyone else feel that way?
And... why? Is it that it has some slowdown, or is it just placebo?

Really enjoy the game. I think this and GG Aleste III are the best two "made by old pros" shmups I have played, recently. There's usually a lot of
disappointment with that, unfortunately.

I'm the same. Honestly I truly believe it's a 15Khz thing. If you have robust emulation on a CRT it always feels superior to robust emulation on an LCD.

Oh and I managed a quick n' dirty 1CC on normal, no passwords obviously. It's a tad too easy overall, I haven't had that many dedicated attempts, but it has some interesting strategy. I'm not happy with that though, I'll need to do it again and better.

One thing I haven't yet mastered is the purge timing on Stage 7. Always mess it up! Any tips?

[Koa Zo]

(...) another confirmation that this is intended to be the start of a new line of retro games by Ancient's "sub-label" YKGGG:

Car Battler Joe / VATLVA / Robotrek crossover please.

[Bassa-Bassa]

I'm not sure I've mentioned this enough, but fuck Exa.
But people are free to like it of course. People can do any weird thing they want

Without Exarcadia, Earthion Exa (or whetever it's called) just would not exist in any form, so nothing is lost in a case like this? Their coders could still be doing Mame work for everyone's benefit instead, but that's a big perhaps.

It's tragic that some interesting games aren't ever coming to PC anymore because the company bought them (yesterday's case in point), but with Earthion I just don't see the harm.

[MintyTheCat]

Here's an article on Earthion, with some info on the making of the game, plus another confirmation that this is intended to be the start of a new line of retro games by Ancient's "sub-label" YKGGG:

https://www.timeextension.com/features/ ... -really-is

That was a good article - thanks for the link.

[AGermanArtist]

Got the clear yesterday and noticed in the credits that Joe Redifer was one of the voice actors listed. Will have to see if I can pick out which voices are his next time I play. I suspect he’s the ‘shoot the central unit’ guy maybe?

Also Happy Console Gamer lol

If I was at Konami, I'd be looking at YKGGG for a new Space Manbow game.

[evil_ash_xero]

People say the EXA version is better, due to what they hear about it. Has anyone actually played it, and can confirm?
For me, I think some of the bullet patterns are a bit sloppy in some spots. It's a little chaotic. The shield kind of makes up for that, but
it's a little messy.
Just wondering if anyone has laid their hands on the forbidden EXA version, or is this all just hearsay?
I've seen it on YT, but that's not the same as playing it.

If this is the start of a series of games from Yuzo, I would love another shmup... but man, Yuzo and his sis worked on Streets of Rage 2.
I would be extremely tempted for another beat 'em up from them.
I also wouldn't mind a platformer, as it's a favorite genre of mine.

But another shmup would be aces.

One thing I haven't yet mastered is the purge timing on Stage 7. Always mess it up! Any tips?

I have no advice. I'm still getting the hang of it. Haven't had a ton of time to play it.

[AGermanArtist]

I just think the image quality is sharper and more pleasant, the gadgets are interesting and the voicework and music isn't bitcrushed to absolute fuck. I also like the little text boxes for each weapon. I'd sooner pay extra to get something comparable, just not $1800 for the eXA cart and the h/ware to play it on.

[Necronom]

I just think the image quality is sharper and more pleasant, the gadgets are interesting and the voicework and music isn't bitcrushed to absolute fuck. I also like the little text boxes for each weapon. I'd sooner pay extra to get something comparable, just not $1800 for the eXA cart and the h/ware to play it on.

Seems the arcade version is also a proper PC-port and not just a rom in an emulator like the actual PC release...

[SuperPang]

Seems to me that most people’s complaints should be directed towards whoever ported it to PC. No reason they couldn’t have added improved audio and gadgets, or indeed their own arrange mode. Hardly Exa’s fault!

Sure, maybe Exa mode is great (I haven’t played it yet), but people calling it the definitive version are talking bollocks. The MD version is the definitive version. You know, the one actually developed by Koshiro on the platform it was designed for.

[Firehawke]

Seems to me that most people’s complaints should be directed towards whoever ported it to PC. No reason they couldn’t have added improved audio and gadgets, or indeed their own arrange mode. Hardly Exa’s fault!

Sure, maybe Exa mode is great (I haven’t played it yet), but people calling it the definitive version are talking bollocks. The MD version is the definitive version. You know, the one actually developed by Koshiro on the platform it was designed for.

It wasn't "ported to PC" in the first place. It's the MD version with an emulator and a custom data storage format to clump all the multiple ROM images together along. If it's not rewritten (you know, the thing the Exa guys seem to be doing?) from scratch then you're limited to what the Genesis hardware can do.

[SuperPang]

It wasn't "ported to PC" in the first place. It's the MD version with an emulator and a custom data storage format to clump all the multiple ROM images together along. If it's not rewritten (you know, the thing the Exa guys seem to be doing?) from scratch then you're limited to what the Genesis hardware can do.

So, the lazy but inexpensive route. Another business decision. If they'd put the extra work in and charged 40 bucks you can guarantee people would be complaining about the price. People are never satisfied.

As for the Exa hate - a couple of years ago people were berating them for releasing overpriced Steam games, now they're berating them for investing in a talented in-house development team. They can't win. Offering something exclusive (an essential component of a successful arcade business model) is "gatekeeping" and the price high, sell low business model that has always been is a rip off because it's "just a PC".

A niche MD shmup is released on every format under the sun and people are still not happy.

[Sumez]

As for the Exa hate - a couple of years ago people were berating them for releasing overpriced Steam games, now they're berating them for investing in a talented in-house development team. They can't win.

A couple of years ago people were berating them for creating an exclusive product for an artificially restricted audience, and now they are berating them for creating an exclusive product for an artificially restricted audience.

As a general rule - no, companies can't "win" as long as they rely on distinctly and intentionally consumer-hostile business models. You see the same tendencies with companies like Nintendo, etc. meeting hostility around the internet.
Of course they are free to do what they want, but when you do things like that, people are gonna voice dissatisfaction. That just goes without saying, really.

[SuperPang]

Arcades and arcade game collectors are their chosen consumer base. It is what it is. You can call that "artificially restricted" if it makes you feel better I guess.

[Necronom]

Seems to me that most people’s complaints should be directed towards whoever ported it to PC. No reason they couldn’t have added improved audio and gadgets, or indeed their own arrange mode. Hardly Exa’s fault!

Sure, maybe Exa mode is great (I haven’t played it yet), but people calling it the definitive version are talking bollocks. The MD version is the definitive version. You know, the one actually developed by Koshiro on the platform it was designed for.

Nobody blames Exa for the emu+ROM treatment. Players blame them for the fact that it's nearly impossible to play the Exa version because it's kept exclusive to a niche inside a niche. Such exclusivity should be timed.
The question about the definitive version is ultimately subjective but your logic is flawed. Imo the definitive version should be the best one, that's why M2's Ketsui deathtiny port is the definitive version of Ketsui and not the OG PCB. Collectors may disagree but from a technical POV this is the case.

[Bassa-Bassa]

It's an unnatural choice, at that, you can't deny it. It's not 1992 anymore. But I'm of the opinion that they're not the ones to blame.

that's why M2's Ketsui deathtiny port is the definitive version of Ketsui and not the OG PCB. Collectors may disagree but from a technical POV this is the case.

CRT usage and displaying at native resolution has to do more with the technical side than with collecting, though.

[Necronom]

It's an unnatural choice, at that, you can't deny it. It's not 1992 anymore. But I'm of the opinion that they're not the ones to blame.

that's why M2's Ketsui deathtiny port is the definitive version of Ketsui and not the OG PCB. Collectors may disagree but from a technical POV this is the case.

CRT usage and displaying at native resolution has to do more with the technical side than with collecting, though.

Not sure I understand your comment.
M2's Deathtiny can be displayed on a CRT if you really want to. Being a technical purist seeking the way it was displayed in 2003 is fine but you have to admit at a certain point that M2's offering is simply the superior product, therefore definitive version
Put in an analogy: I love my Star Wars Laserdisc, but damn 4K77 is the definitive version for sure

[Bassa-Bassa]

Deathtiny can't be displayed on a CRT at the native resolution (and refresh) of the original game, which destroys the point.

Poorly phrased, I'm afraid, but what I meant was indeed that a good CRT is the best possible display for Ketsui as M2 did not do the equivalent of 4k77's digital restoration, which would mean resampling the original CG assets for the resolution of modern displays (which likely that wouldn't really be Ketsui anymore, but that's another discussion).

[Necronom]

Deathtiny can't be displayed on a CRT at the native resolution (and refresh) of the original game, which destroys the point.

Poorly phrased, I'm afraid, but what I meant was indeed that a good CRT is the best possible display for Ketsui as M2 did not do the equivalent of 4k77's digital restoration, which would mean resampling the original CG assets for the resolution of modern displays (which likely that wouldn't really be Ketsui anymore, but that's another discussion).

Fair point, they did not.

[Jackoz]

A couple of years ago people were berating them for creating an exclusive product for an artificially restricted audience, and now they are berating them for creating an exclusive product for an artificially restricted audience.

As a general rule - no, companies can't "win" as long as they rely on distinctly and intentionally consumer-hostile business models. You see the same tendencies with companies like Nintendo, etc. meeting hostility around the internet.
Of course they are free to do what they want, but when you do things like that, people are gonna voice dissatisfaction. That just goes without saying, really.

Where were you when Cave and Raizing released this genre’s goats only in the arcade? Having lurked here for more than a decade I never saw any of the same hostility. Cave and 8ing are much larger companies than exa and are fully capable of doing ports. Where is your open boycott of these companies for not porting their games?

The foundation of shmups is the arcade. The super players and arcade culture we adore and the games have all come the arcade business model. Games like Katsui and Battle Garegga would have never been created without this model. People are fooling themselves if they think a 20 dollaroo title on Steam is getting the production values of a Cave game. Selling even 10000 copies is not paying for the people to make the games.

Now we have a company whom is extending the life of arcades with games that are of a high quality standard. Somehow the discourse is now how everyone feels slighted that the exa games are not available to them for free on the play device they own. You are not entitled to them. Games are a luxury not a necessity.

[Sumez]

Arcades and arcade game collectors are their chosen consumer base. It is what it is. You can call that "artificially restricted" if it makes you feel better I guess.

When you had the option to just not do that, that's obviously super artificial.

The restriction that everything they offer has to be exclusive to their platform may or may not be financially beneficial to them, but it sure as fuck is not beneficial to anyone else. No one could or should empathize with that

Where were you when Cave and Raizing released this genre’s goats only in the arcade?

Since when were Cave's games only released in the arcade?
At the time there was in fact a lot of frustration for a while that Ketsui was super elusive and most people couldn't play it, but obiously that was silenced when the X360 port finally came out.
But it made no sense to berate Cave themselves for it, because it was not their choice. The intent *was* there to port it to PS2. It's not like they just actively chose not to. Even in the early 00s, releasing the games on the hardware they did still made a lot of sense, which should be obvious considering how much trouble they had even making them play decently on PS2.
And by the X360 era they eventually got into a pretty steady pace of getting the ports out surprisingly soon after the arcade releases.

[Sweatlord_STG]

Arcades and arcade game collectors are their chosen consumer base. It is what it is. You can call that "artificially restricted" if it makes you feel better I guess.

When you had the option to just not do that, that's obviously super artificial.

The restriction that everything they offer has to be exclusive to their platform may or may not be financially beneficial to them, but it sure as fuck is not beneficial to anyone else. No one could or should empathize with that

Where were you when Cave and Raizing released this genre’s goats only in the arcade?

Since when were Cave's games only released in the arcade?

[Bassa-Bassa]

Where were you when Cave and Raizing released this genre’s goats only in the arcade? Having lurked here for more than a decade I never saw any of the same hostility. Cave and 8ing are much larger companies than exa and are fully capable of doing ports. Where is your open boycott of these companies for not porting their games?

As I see it, Cave and Raizing's goats belong to an era where where you still couldn't replicate the arcade games at home unless you went pretty hardcore. Even with the SAT and the DC there (though admittedly with the former's late years you could see how this was finally changing, yet you still needed hard-to-get gear for the full experience), the people assumed that powerful arcade hardware was needed to make a game shine, particularly a STG, as well as an arcade environment to get it tested enough for robust-enough mechanics. And ports of arcade games were an unlikely event, not a given. And there's the fact that arcades were still a thing even outside Japan.

All that changed.

The foundation of shmups is the arcade. The super players and arcade culture we adore and the games have all come the arcade business model. Games like Katsui and Battle Garegga would have never been created without this model. People are fooling themselves if they think a 20 dollaroo title on Steam is getting the production values of a Cave game. Selling even 10000 copies is not paying for the people to make the games.

Now we have a company whom is extending the life of arcades with games that are of a high quality standard.

Surely it's just me, but I'm still to see high quality if you're talking Exarcadia. Hopefully we can agree that rereleasing old games of high quality with tweaks and extras just can't count and doing the same with Steam games of questionable quality counts even less. There's always an interesting exception, but they're still too few and far from the high quality of the likes from peak Eighting or Cave. These companies also made their own custom hardware - Exarcadia is using freaking Windows PCs.

Neither the former is true - arcades are still around in Japan thanks to other type of machines and Exarcadia is just taking advantage of it. I'd hardly call their presence out of that country relevant. Maybe even anecdotal is still too generous.

[Jackoz]

Where were you when Cave and Raizing released this genre’s goats only in the arcade? Having lurked here for more than a decade I never saw any of the same hostility. Cave and 8ing are much larger companies than exa and are fully capable of doing ports. Where is your open boycott of these companies for not porting their games?

As I see it, Cave and Raizing's goats belong to an era where where you still couldn't replicate the arcade games at home unless you went pretty hardcore. Even with the SAT and the DC there (though admittedly with the former's late years you could see how this was finally changing, yet you still needed hard-to-get gear for the full experience), the people assumed that powerful arcade hardware was needed to make a game shine, particularly a STG, as well as an arcade environment to get it tested enough for robust-enough mechanics. And ports of arcade games were an unlikely event, not a given. And there's the fact that arcades were still a thing even outside Japan.

All that changed.

The foundation of shmups is the arcade. The super players and arcade culture we adore and the games have all come the arcade business model. Games like Katsui and Battle Garegga would have never been created without this model. People are fooling themselves if they think a 20 dollaroo title on Steam is getting the production values of a Cave game. Selling even 10000 copies is not paying for the people to make the games.

Now we have a company whom is extending the life of arcades with games that are of a high quality standard.

Surely it's just me, but I'm still to see high quality if you're talking Exarcadia. Hopefully we can agree that rereleasing old games of high quality with tweaks and extras just can't count and doing the same with Steam games of questionable quality counts even less. There's always an interesting exception, but they're still too few and far from the high quality of the likes from peak Eighting or Cave. These companies also made their own custom hardware - Exarcadia is using freaking Windows PCs.

Neither the former is true - arcades are still around in Japan thanks to other type of machines and Exarcadia is just taking advantage of it. I'd hardly call their presence out of that country relevant. Maybe even anecdotal is still too generous.

Mate no hardware Cave used has ever been high spec. Even the Windows PC(!) used for Desthsmiles 2 is off the shelf. If either company thought the console ports were worth their time, they would have done them. At the end of the day, it is a financial decision because they are companies who need to be profitable. Companies are not here to lose money for your convenience.

I reckon you have not been to Japan where the last remaining real arcades like the Mikados and Heys are all running exa cabinets because they are the only ones releasing games that are worth playing. Taito Nesica and Sega PRAS (hello Sonic Wings Rubbish) are both deserted islands. If you think the re-releases are just tweaks, then I do not think you even seriously play shmups. They may not be all original games like the heyday of Cave but they are damn good and play significantly different. Go ahead and tell me Air Gallet and Fixeight are just tweaks or Earthion isn’t a better game in the arcade. The Japanese players I’ve talked to and the many submissions on JHA are evidence enough.

[Jackoz]

Since when were Cave's games only released in the arcade?
At the time there was in fact a lot of frustration for a while that Ketsui was super elusive and most people couldn't play it, but obiously that was silenced when the X360 port finally came out.
But it made no sense to berate Cave themselves for it, because it was not their choice. The intent *was* there to port it to PS2. It's not like they just actively chose not to. Even in the early 00s, releasing the games on the hardware they did still made a lot of sense, which should be obvious considering how much trouble they had even making them play decently on PS2.
And by the X360 era they eventually got into a pretty steady pace of getting the ports out surprisingly soon after the arcade releases.

You have some selective memory and quoting there.
I clearly remember a long 5 years gap for Espgaluda 2. That is almost a console generation. Cave did not port games to console in the PS2 generation because it was not worth their time. Their “intent” was to make money in the arcade business and the growing mobile market. It may have been Arika’s “intent” to port but please do not confuse the two companies. If the financials made sense, every company would have put their shmups on console. These companies exist to make money. They are not here to do money losing ventures so you can conveniently play their products on the platform you may own.

[Sumez]

Go ahead and tell me Air Gallet and Fixeight are just tweaks or Earthion isn’t a better game in the arcade

Given it's nearly impossible to play those games, how would anyone be able to tell you that?
How can you possibly *defend* not allowing for more accessible ports of those revisions? You even claim they are better games, but you don't want people to be able to play them? What the hell.

[spmbx]

I just think the image quality is sharper and more pleasant, the gadgets are interesting and the voicework and music isn't bitcrushed to absolute fuck. I also like the little text boxes for each weapon. I'd sooner pay extra to get something comparable, just not $1800 for the eXA cart and the h/ware to play it on.

For me it really is part of the charm Maybe you're not into megadrive at all, or you just prefer to play games with modern improvements when you can, anyway not to start a discussion but out of interest i wonder which of these options you would prefer?
- Earthion on stock megadrive cart with current voices/samples/etc
- Earthion on a megadrive cart with custom FPGA allowing higher quality voices/samples/etc
- Fuck megadrive just give me PC