Switch 2 BC Lag testing (wish)

[LDigital]

Is anyone here due to get a launch Switch 2? I have a decent library of Switch Shmups and the fate of my Switch 1 depends on whether the BC translation layer adds significant lag or issues to those games. I have a preorder but I am in two minds around it and may hold off under later on. If it turns out to be the same or better than the current switch 1 hardware in docked mode, then I will gift my V1 to my son. if it adds extra frames (which is my fear) then hard luck kiddo.

I am hoping with the slew of coverage and info that is sure to pour out following launch that some reliable tests happen quickly to get to the bottom of the backwards compatibility situation.

[ZellSF]

It seems very unlikely that the Switch 2 will add lag, but I'm sure someone will test it.

That said there's at least two shmups on this list:
https://media.nintendo.com/switch-2/pdf ... 152025.pdf

[D]

Not based on anything, but my gut. (so yeah, should be tested)
But I expect at least one full frame of lag.
It could also be dependent of the game/logic used on a game to game basis.
I think N$ will just not care if anyone has worst experience plating sw1 games on sw2. They might even optimize some games, but I am afraid lag minimalization or frame rate improvement will not be one of them.
And with every firmware update N$ promises improved performance and then someone will test lag again and it will be the same every time.

Let's just hope I am completely wrong in my predictions!

[Steven]

I'd keep the V1 either way because it can be hacked relatively easily, unlike the V2 and OLED, but that's just me.

[alamone]

I have a preorder, but currently my lag testing is geared towards PCBs (LED soldered in-line with button, use iPhone 240FPS mode Is It Snappy app).
I could probably adapt it, but I'll need to work out something to connect a DB15 controller to Switch 2.

[Konsolkongen]

I have a preorder, but currently my lag testing is geared towards PCBs (LED soldered in-line with button, use iPhone 240FPS mode Is It Snappy app).
I could probably adapt it, but I'll need to work out something to connect a DB15 controller to Switch 2.

That may not be an accurate way to test input lag on the Switch 2. The Switch 1 had around half a frame of lag added when using a USB controller on top of whatever lag the controller itself has.
The same may be true for the Switch 2 as well.

[alamone]

That may not be an accurate way to test input lag on the Switch 2. The Switch 1 had around half a frame of lag added when using a USB controller on top of whatever lag the controller itself has.
The same may be true for the Switch 2 as well.

Not sure I see this being a problem? Since the request is to see the input lag difference between the Switch 1 and 2.
If the problem exists in Switch 2, then it's a wash. If it's fixed, then the Switch 2 will have less measured lag.
If playing your shmups library is the goal as stated in the OP, I'm assuming that a wired stick is the preferred way to play, so you'll be using USB anyway.

[Sumez]

But whatever USB interface you en up using to connect your button to the Switch might cause more lags than other interfaces doing the same thing.

While of course ultimately the full chain of lag matters for gameplay, any sufficient test should make sure to identify the difference added by the controller itself, with the console's first party controllers probably being the most important ones to test.

[Faith]

It seems very unlikely that the Switch 2 will add lag, but I'm sure someone will test it.

I think, the wish may be, for some of us anyway... that it will reduce lag?

Sorry if I am mistaken, I do not own a Switch; but I always heard that STG on Switch all have more lag when compared to PC if the game is available on both.

Because of that, and anyway since my Steam library is healthy, I did not get a Switch after all this time.

But... I have been dying to play SDOJ for a long time... and if lag on Switch 2 is acceptable it may be tempting for me to try it there.

Of course my wish is for SDOJ to just come to Steam, lol.

[Sumez]

If the biggest bottleneck for lag on Switch 1 is the controller interface, it's indeed possible there would be less lag on the 2.
Probably a bit optimistic to hope for though.

[StarLightMoonLight]

The console is finally out, we'll probably see a comparison by the end of this month.
By the way, the creator of the Flip Grip said they plan on making a version of it for the Switch 2.
https://youtu.be/5ZRvd_UnVYU?si=NOm4DBiLEhcK8pjL&t=360

[mrsmiley381]

So, at the very least, I popped Aleste Collection into my Switch 2 last night and it definitely booted in handheld mode and then did a 720p -> 1080p upscale. I could tell because the resolution scaier settings change when you switch between handheld and TV mode. I would argue that if this remains true then a Switch OLED is still a better way to play Switch games in handheld mode unless the performance gains for the improved CPU totally outweigh the scaling artifacts. If by the time a Switch 2 OLED there is an integer scaling feature or TV-in-Handheld mode then maybe this hypothetical Switch 2 OLED will be the best way to play. Y'know, barring any still-outstanding compatibility issues or lag.
I don't have any objective way to test lag for now. I don't game in handheld mode much so TV mode is where I'll be doing subjective tests as time allows.

[alamone]

I'll be doing objective tests using a LED connected to a button and 240FPS video. I ordered a RP2040 advanced breakout board and will test once it arrives.

[Nugs]

Nothing scientific but did see this on X.

https://x.com/kiyomaryu/status/1930465906926465034

I'm a big fan of Dodonpachi, but I feel like the delay is less on the Switch 2. (I feel like it)
・Video 1 is Switch
・Video 2 is Switch2 ※ the one moving around at the end

and this

https://t.co/jw85PeS9Ma

In this stream we tested the delay issues of various STGs, so we hope it's helpful!
Overall, it seems like the latency has improved.

[alamone]

Nigel already did some tests, but his are focused on fighting games. I believe his test uses a phototransistor focused on a training mode command input log to detect controller inputs being registered by the game.
It looks like any lag improvements are game dependent and not across the board. For example, smash bros ultimate and CVS2 are about the same, guilty gear strive is 2 frames faster, DBFZ is 1 frame faster.

https://x.com/noodalls/status/1930895895954170211

[LDigital]

This initial testing is really promising

[Konsolkongen]

That's really good news, but I wonder why the difference in lag improvement varies so much. Some games have no improvements at all, and others have really massive +30ms improvements.

I also wonder why Street Fighter 6 in 60 vs 120Hz mode has a 45ms difference in lag. Of course higher refresh rates will improve input lag, but doesn't that seem like a lot?

[orange808]

That's really good news, but I wonder why the difference in lag improvement varies so much. Some games have no improvements at all, and others have really massive +30ms improvements.

I also wonder why Street Fighter 6 in 60 vs 120Hz mode has a 45ms difference in lag. Of course higher refresh rates will improve input lag, but doesn't that seem like a lot?

It's a big jump, but it's certainly possible. Especially, if that 45ms was the "worst case" lag.

[Gunstar]

Interesting result: Smash Ultimate - Switch 1 pro controller (wireless)

[ajd578]

Interesting result: Smash Ultimate - Switch 1 pro controller (wireless)

Not surprising. First party online competitive Switch 1 games are the last thing I would expect to get lag improvements as it would give Switch 2 players an advantage.

[DenimDemon]

There's a bunch of posts on twiiter from Japanese players stating STGs are showing less input delay on Switch 2. Like on the recent Livewire SOJ release.
Personally I've tested Strikers 3 wich I've always felt too laggy even for me...and it feels like an improvement already. Same with Raiden 3 Mikado wich besides feeling snappier to control shows no signal of slowdown or stutter on busy sections, that used to have issues on SW1. Loads super quick as well. Same for Raiden Nova wich had terrible performance on Switch 1.
Wish someone with the right tools could run a test one some of the STGs.

[bobrocks95]

Interesting result: Smash Ultimate - Switch 1 pro controller (wireless)

Not surprising. First party online competitive Switch 1 games are the last thing I would expect to get lag improvements as it would give Switch 2 players an advantage.

0% chance this was a deliberate decision. That's not how this works.

[ajd578]

Interesting result: Smash Ultimate - Switch 1 pro controller (wireless)

Not surprising. First party online competitive Switch 1 games are the last thing I would expect to get lag improvements as it would give Switch 2 players an advantage.

0% chance this was a deliberate decision. That's not how this works.

Maybe this is apocryphal, but I have heard that Nintendo has nerfed performance to maintain parity, e.g., with wired vs wireless controller delay. Anyways,
“leave a little probability for the moon being made of green cheese; it can be as small as 1 in a million, but have it there since otherwise an army of astronauts returning with samples of the said cheese will leave you unmoved.”

[orange808]

Are there enough samples to make conclusions here?

Furthermore, we really shouldn't expect many gains from legacy software. Making a game is hard enough. Who has extra time and energy to design a game loop around 120Hz support when the target platform might not even deliver a consistent 60fps? Switch 2 didn't exist.

Nobody knew what Switch 2 would be and how much should be spent on features that gamers won't see when the game is new and hot? Fighting games are a dime a dozen and they are usually passing fads in terms of sales. Studios don't get paid royalties based on how often you play the game you bought. There's no payola scheme for public use, either. Rights to music and movies means a stream of payments from YouTube. Game IP means "free advertising" and zero moneys. From a business standpoint, that's frustrating. I understand the realities of the world, but music and movies don't usually need support or patching when a new player device hits the market. (Someone tell George Lucas.) The mpeg codec works the same as it did on any other machine. Even when a new standard did arrive, artists got to resell the content on new media. You are expecting free downloaded support from your games.

Nobody has time to make enhancements that won't do a thing to keep the studio alive. Long dove tails are hard to come by and all we get is what you pay to buy the game content.

Lag didn't go down? That's a fun story. Tell me another one. ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

[Emerl]

As much as I want it to be so, until we have results showing contrary, I don't believe the Japanese tweets saying "The lag feels better". We saw the same thing when SDOJ was released on Switch until it was finally tested. Feelings of input lag are extremely influenced by placebo effects.

[alamone]

SDOJ - no change in lag according to this tweet (tested using the built-in LCD). He says he isn't able to use the dock, so Inconclusive for HDMI output.

https://x.com/TRSYJ/status/1932457503507571143

[Steven]

Did anyone ever lag test the Switch with a wired controller directly connected to the system's USB-C input and skip the dock entirely? I'm sure someone probably did, but I never saw it. The dock's USB-A inputs add about a frame of lag, so I wonder about the USB port on the system itself.

[alamone]

Not sure about the Switch 1 test, but the Switch 2 test used a Brook UFB with a USB-A to USB-C adapter connected directly to the Switch 2 without using dock.

https://x.com/TRSYJ/status/1932686793612406904

[alamone]

Another person tested, no change for SDOJ and Akai Katana.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkjNgbILszo

[Konsolkongen]

So if lag is the same using USB arcade sticks on the Switch 2, that means that the inherent USB lag of the Switch 1 is also present on the Switch 2?