Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Congrats! Bees in DOJ give a massive hyper meter boost if you happen to collect them while there's an active chain. A 200 or 300 chain will give you a sizeable amount, but you have to uncover the bee and collect it without dropping the chain.

If you want to do more chaining you could try Laser type, the laser with, popcorn piercing, and faster movement speed are crucial to proper chaining, but you still get more bombs than Expert type which is helpful for a survival 1CC. I still find Shot with its extra bombs is probably easier though.

[Starfighter]

If you want to do more chaining

You know what? I never thought I'd say this, but I'll consider it.

Furthermore I've noticed my morale takes a hard hit everytime I die on the S3 boss, so I'm trying to find the fastest way possible to deal with it while also 1) staying somewhat safe and 2) using at most one bomb. Here's a few attempts from just now and I wonder if I can be even faster somehow. Or is this as fast as it's gonna get on my level? Is trying to point blank it (which I do very, very little of, because of condition 1) worth it at all?

Starfighter vs the annoying turtle

Worth noting is I don't always arrive at the boss with a hyper in stock (not from what I remember at least), so perhaps I should practice without it to not become dependent on it being available.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Laser type would be faster without taking point blanking into consideration because shot loses a bit of damage having to use the rapid attack to dodge those aimed shots that make you weave wide right and left. Laser can fire the laser the whole time and moves fast enough to evade without needing to use rapid shot. However a hyper and a bomb for safety is pretty good for this boss in terms of resources spent, it looks like you're doing pretty decent here.

[Starfighter]

Starting to feel like I can do this has messed me up completely. I get the jitters at the first stage. If I reach the first extend by the end of stage two, my heart is racing so fast I can't sit still and my hands are shaking like leaves. Most tries ends (well, I lose a life and waste too much resources, so I can't really mentally recover) at the turtle even though I've practiced that one to no end. I have to find my way back to not caring if I'm to do this. At this point I can only do one or two practice runs per day, because I get so tilted after a couple of fails that it blocks out learning anything new. I think I need to accept that I'm going to have to spend a lot more time with this game, that's one way to calm down. Knowing it's not "close" yet. I've played for 30+ hours now and I've hit the fatigue/boredom stage where I kind of want to play anything else. But I recognize this from past games that are too tough for me, it's a phase.

Edit: My first real thought on what I think of the game is that I don't really understand how it can be so rigid in what it wants me to do and so dynamic at the same time. I really need to be where the game wants me to be at all times, but if I'm not completely in the right spot one thing leads to another and then it's like playing another game after a few seconds. I've lost count on how many times I've went "wait... this isn't what I practiced" while trying to play exactly the same everytime.

Edit 2: Holy crap, reaching 30 million on stage 2 makes stage 3... feisty. I thought it was hard as it was, going into it with high hyper rank rendered moste of my experience with the level useless. Well, it's similar patterns, but sooo much more of them! Lol, I spent the entirety of the stage trying to 1) survive and 2) get my rank down by bombing during hyper. I made it to the boss and there I finally died and got the rank down a fair bit. But by that time, stage 4 wasn't waiting for me to recover my power so the run was over before I knew it.

Edit 3: So, I've practiced a bit more and now I can stitch the first three stages together in a manner where I'll get the second extend no problem, but the turtle is a new kind of annoying in rank 4-5 or so, so now my nerves ("I did the first three stages, it's still not even 50/50 that things go my way during those so now it's important I do good here") are back making me trip up on the easiest of parts in S4. It feels like I'm back at how it felt the first week of practice, but this time it's a bit tougher still so it's like I need to learn everything again. So next step feels like it should be "practicing S4 and S5 with high rank and nerves". The second part isn't really achievable with save state practice, so I need to do full runs to be able to practice that. And having 15 minutes or so of gameplay before each opportunity to practice what I want to practice isn't optimal for my attention span*. I'll keep at it, but it's looking hairy.

* = What's keeping me somewhat focused is the feeling of this being my final boss, my white whale. Beating DOJ is pretty much the hardest thing I've ever set out to do (when it comes to video games, that is) so it's important for me to succeed. It'd be a validation like no other to me. I know there are even harder shmups out there, but you know. We all have personal goals.

[Starfighter]

I did remarkably bad on the first two stages, reached around 14 million. I thought to myself "just go with it, I'm sure I'll unlock the second extend anyway". Died at the final boss with roughly 40 million. Note to self: restart everytime 20 million isn't reached after the first two stages. I mean, if I hadn't dropped the chain on S2 (I still can't really understand how the heck I managed to do that) I'd have my 1CC now.

Edit 2: Reached 26 million on S2 and immediately got the jitters. I muted the game and put on some of my own music and immediately felt a lot calmer. But after a few "~25 million on S2 - game over by late S5 or on final boss" I decided to call it a day. I only have a certain amount of tries/time in me per day before I start doing really bad again. Soon, soon....

Here's an average try, by the way. I play ok (if still a bit risky and unplanned because in order to keep my nerves down I have to think about anything else but the game) up until around S4, then it alls falls apart really fast and usually ends at the S4 boss or early S5.

[AkitaRonin]

Haven't played a STG ever since the year began. I was occupied with other genres (DRPGs, 4x, Grand Strategy, Musou, and the good old FFXIV)
But yesterday I got this sudden urge to play a quick run of Eschatos

Holy shit, I love Eschatos. Such a pure game. So full or reverence and references to classic STG tropes and design, but never derivative or shallow. I no kidding played the whole run jittering in excitement.

STGs truly are adrenaline injected in the veins in video gaming form. Just wow.

There’s something about Batsugun’s sprite work that I really like.

I feel you, and I'd say that for all Toaplan games, tbh, but Batsugan really has that something special. That polish, that flair, that style and edge. I love that game, Special version might be my only "serious" 1cc, because I loved the game so much I kept playing nonstop

I managed to get a 300 chain on S1

Dude, that's MAJOR! Congrats!!
I know I'm bad, but goddamn, my DOJ is TRAGIC. To hear someone do this always impresses and amazes me. Great work, for real!

[Lethe]

Here's an average try, by the way

For getting both hypers on the 1-1 boss, get the pod flashing, stop shooting during the first spin cycle and wait for the second time. Much easier to set everything up that way, and you can finish off the boss right after.
If you're intimidated by this part of stage 3, there's a safespot:

My first real thought on what I think of the game is that I don't really understand how it can be so rigid in what it wants me to do and so dynamic at the same time. I really need to be where the game wants me to be at all times, but if I'm not completely in the right spot one thing leads to another and then it's like playing another game after a few seconds. I've lost count on how many times I've went "wait... this isn't what I practiced" while trying to play exactly the same everytime.

You may feel like that but it's not true, not on loop 1. There are lots of situations where you're not seizing the choices you have because you're under pressure. Like on the first half of your stage 3 - holding the shot button down and seemingly waiting for the enemies to go away while hyperfocusing on your hitbox, instead of watching the whole screen and keeping up with the situation. Basically the material threat in this game is "the enemy didn't die on time" so the basis of routing comes down to "be in the right spot to point the laser at the thing", and then you make allowances for the other low-priority things that will be shooting at you in the meantime. Enemies not dying when they should is a guaranteed lose state, so the only compensation for mistakes is more aggression. Discipline or risk, no cowardice. On similar logic, hyper spamming to intentionally inflate rank or even messing around in loop 2 practice could improve your perception.

Since it's been posted about a lot, I've also been dabbling with DOJ a bit. It's amazing how strongly I now feel WL is a better game... frankly I'd say BL just fucking sucks, the difficulty balance is all wrong, the first loop is interminable, and as someone who's never interested in playing either for score I appreciate WL's wacky loop 2 extend system a lot more than BL's conventional carryover. (Then again I also think Progear's checkpoints are the indisputable highlight of that whole game, so...)

[Starfighter]

If you're intimidated by this part of stage 3, there's a safespot:

Ooh, thanks! I know there's a safespot just to the right of the one in your gif, but I didn't know there was another one still. I haven't really dared to try it out more than a few times though - I find it's easier (on my nerves at least) to go out on either edge and then slowly go to the other edge while the middle enemy does its thing. Not that I showed that in my example video, where I was outside of my normal route every other minute.

Like on the first half of your stage 3 - holding the shot button down and seemingly waiting for the enemies to go away while hyperfocusing on your hitbox, instead of watching the whole screen and keeping up with the situation. Basically the material threat in this game is "the enemy didn't die on time" so the basis of routing comes down to "be in the right spot to point the laser at the thing", and then you make allowances for the other low-priority things that will be shooting at you in the meantime.

Yes, exactly like that! Somewhere an enemy doesn't die as planned and then I have to float around looking for a "way in" to my originally planned route. Usually aggression fixes that, but for some reason this game stresses me out and make me lose my confidence. I don't think there's any way around that but to play more.

Dude, that's MAJOR! Congrats!!

Thank you! Well, when going for survival the chaining in S1 is pretty much irrelevant, but I thought it was fun going for it for a while! At least to bump up the score to reach the second extend later on.

Edit 2: Back to defeat. Fired up a couple of runs this morning and failed miserably already on S3. When this is done, I'm never touching a bee-series Cave game again. Even my heart is tired of it, all this racing rhythm day in and day out is hurting and making it feel like a large bruise. Death by Dodonpachi.

[PsikyoPshumpPshooterP]

Soldier Blade
Mr Heli

[DarkSlayer]

Getting into the vertical 4:3 Shmups after dismissing them for ages and having a blast!

Ginga force - so fuxking good, probably the best one iv tried so far even if it does have a wierd format where you play each stage 1 by 1 instead of a single run. Think I am starting to like it more than Escatos even!

Steel Vampire - just starting with this one, but it’s MANIC

Terra Diver - this is up there with batrider imo. I love the horizontal scrolling combined with the lock on system. The 3D stuff really makes it feel like you are on a journey. I really wish I had a slightly less laggy way to play, I am emulating Saturn core (think yaba sanshiro core) but even with a beefy pc I don’t seem to get run a head to work well. How do you guys play Terra Diver with lowest input lag?

[shmupsrocks]

Terra Diver is great. The ST-V MiSTer core is supposed to be improving a lot so hopefully Terra Diver will be playable there soon. Mars Matrix and 1944 The Loop Master are also vertical 4:3 and both on the MiSTer.

[Steven]

Soukyuugurentai is one of the absolute best games in the genre, even with its stupid rank system. Don't listen to any fools who say that 4:3 vertical games are automatically bad or whatever because this one game alone proves them wrong.

[DarkSlayer]

Terra Diver is great. The ST-V MiSTer core is supposed to be improving a lot so hopefully Terra Diver will be playable there soon. Mars Matrix and 1944 The Loop Master are also vertical 4:3 and both on the MiSTer.

Awesome il try those two as well.

Shame Terra Diver isn’t more well known. Do you rate the ps1 version? I could probably get run a head working with that

[DarkSlayer]

Soukyuugurentai is one of the absolute best games in the genre, even with its stupid rank system. Don't listen to any fools who say that 4:3 vertical games are automatically bad or whatever because this one game alone proves them wrong.

Yer even playing with only using the lock on the game is so cool, definitely the next game I am going to try and seriously 1cc

[sunnshiner]

Gradius Gaiden on PS1 (in Duckstation). Holy crap that intro's good.

[davyK]

I can't leave Raiden III alone and I can't understand why. Playing the Switch port docked with a mini Hori stick (have the old PC port on Steam and the PS2 port still) I've been playing it on and off for years. I've only ever 1CCed it on EASY level (PS2).

Also enjoying Batsugun on Steam. Wow - what a spike in level 4!!!

This is when I stop playing Balatro of course....

[Dazzymank]

Terra Diver is great. The ST-V MiSTer core is supposed to be improving a lot so hopefully Terra Diver will be playable there soon. Mars Matrix and 1944 The Loop Master are also vertical 4:3 and both on the MiSTer.

Awesome il try those two as well.

Shame Terra Diver isn’t more well known. Do you rate the ps1 version? I could probably get run a head working with that

It's very good on Saturn (souky alt name)

[AkitaRonin]

Been playing あうとさいど (Autosaido) games this past weekend, particularly Cosmo Dreamer and the Redneg AllStars that is on Steam

Holy crap, these games are good. Touhou bosses, CAVE stages. Since they are on the easier side, I jumped straight on the normal difficulty for Cosmo Dreamer even if I have stopped STGs for a while and am rusty. Got happily surprised, but not only I got the clear, I actually smashed my previous PB. Goes to show the brain works in mysterious ways, you take a rest and you come back actually sharper somehow, even if I know I can get much better right now. It's a good feeling.

The music for Stage 8 of Cosmo Dreamer might be the best stage theme I have ever listened to. And it is so well implemented... Yeah, these games are very good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-po0m73 ... annel=Pcah

Thank you! Well, when going for survival the chaining in S1 is pretty much irrelevant, but I thought it was fun going for it for a while! At least to bump up the score to reach the second extend later on.

I'm very much a beginner, but I always try to tackle the score system anyway when going for survival exactly for this reason: extends and for being cool haha
From what I understand, even in scoring play, first levels of CAVE games are pretty much a formality, but I can be wrong, of course

Soukyuugurentai is one of the absolute best games in the genre, even with its stupid rank system. Don't listen to any fools who say that 4:3 vertical games are automatically bad or whatever because this one game alone proves them wrong.

Soukyuuguretai is so fucking cool. Does anyone actually say stuff like this?
I mean, the whole of PC Engine library, can be aditional proof if anything

[Steven]

Soukyuuguretai is so fucking cool. Does anyone actually say stuff like this?
I mean, the whole of PC Engine library, can be aditional proof if anything

Yes, there are absolutely people that automatically dismiss 4:3 verticals as inferior/trash/not worth playing/etc. because of their aspect ratios. It's ridiculous.

[shmupsrocks]

Goes to show the brain works in mysterious ways, you take a rest and you come back actually sharper somehow

I've noticed this with shmups myself and I wish I knew more about how it works. What is it about not playing the game that makes you better at playing the game.

[sunnshiner]

Raiden III (the old GOG version). On Linux! I know, right?

[AkitaRonin]

Yes, there are absolutely people that automatically dismiss 4:3 verticals as inferior/trash/not worth playing/etc. because of their aspect ratios. It's ridiculous.

Well, that's just ignorant. Ignocance and/or elitism, there are no other names for it.
STGs are good in all their forms, if you ask me. It's all about how you work with what you have, as with any form of art.

I've noticed this with shmups myself and I wish I knew more about how it works. What is it about not playing the game that makes you better at playing the game.

I'd bet it's the same principle of how you have to sleep to really annex knowledge in your brain, how rest is essential to fixate information. So you take some time off from the game and your brain actually builds the synapses behind your back. I'd guess it has something to do with it
But of course, you'd have to ask someone much smarter than me to explain or actually theorize!

Raiden III (the old GOG version). On Linux! I know, right?

What? Had no idea Raiden was even on GOG!!
I wish I had access to more Raiden, I only have the Legacy collection on Steam, which everyone seems to not like a lot but it's good enough for me, who knows no better, honestly. I really enjoy Raiden Fighters, sometimes I'll play the Xeno Fighters fangame and that shit is just incredible

[sunnshiner]

Raiden III (the old GOG version). On Linux! I know, right?

What? Had no idea Raiden was even on GOG!!
I wish I had access to more Raiden, I only have the Legacy collection on Steam, which everyone seems to not like a lot but it's good enough for me, who knows no better, honestly. I really enjoy Raiden Fighters, sometimes I'll play the Xeno Fighters fangame and that shit is just incredible

Yes, it was delisted a good while ago now though.

This is on Steam now, dunno if you missed it or not?

https://store.steampowered.com/bundle/3 ... e_Edition/

[Steven]

Well, that's just ignorant. Ignocance and/or elitism, there are no other names for it.
STGs are good in all their forms, if you ask me. It's all about how you work with what you have, as with any form of art.

Just with Mars Matrix and Soukyuugurentai alone there is enough proof that you can have a 4:3 vertical game and make it one of the best games in the genre. I'd understand if it's a poor conversion of a 3:4 game, but if the game is originally designed to be 4:3 I don't see what the problem is. People are complaining about Tatsujin Extreme being 16:9 with horizontal scrolling, but they haven't actually played it and I have. I know it works because I played the demo and it's glorious.

https://store.steampowered.com/bundle/3 ... e_Edition/

I wouldn't buy this bundle because the entire soundtrack, including the arranged music, is located in the game files, and it's lossless, too. Not much point in paying for it when it comes with the game for free.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Well, that's just ignorant. Ignocance and/or elitism, there are no other names for it.
STGs are good in all their forms, if you ask me.

Just with Mars Matrix and Soukyuugurentai alone there is enough proof that you can have a 4:3 vertical game and make it one of the best games in the genre. I'd understand if it's a poor conversion of a 3:4 game, but if the game is originally designed to be 4:3 I don't see what the problem is. People are complaining about Tatsujin Extreme being 16:9 with horizontal scrolling, but they haven't actually played it and I have. I know it works because I played the demo and it's glorious.

Not to mention there's tons of original vertical shmups on NES, SNES, Genesis, and Game Gear that are "vertizontal" shmups because they were designed to be played on a 4:3 or square screen. It's really only arcade games that are vertical with a vertical screen orientation, or games with borders such as Japanese doujin shmups (x.x's games, Touhou, etc).

It also frustrates me when people dismiss horizontal shmups and are vertical only purists. There's a ton of great horizontal games out there to experience.

Some people are understandably skeptical of remakes of 4:3 aspect games into 16:9 widescreen, but a lot of the time it's pretty successful and doesn't fundamentally break anything. Wild Guns Reloaded is a great example of this. The screen's bigger, but it still works just fine for single player.

[XoPachi]

Playing Star of Providence and I don't know if it's a new thing but I noticed that the name for one of the mini boss's just randomly changes each run. I didn't notice because I don't really look at the logs and this is the first time I've died to him in 6 years. It said my run was ended by "War Sphere" and I thought "Wait, did they change his name again? I thought it was Battle Ball now?" I immediately check the bestiary and it says "Assault Globe".
I think Kleines is the one who said that nobody remembers the name of that thing but it's a funny little in joke. I noticed the name changes, but I saw them so infrequently that I thought it was between patches.

EDIT: Oh it's every name interaction period. lol

[helios1]

Playing Ketsui atm - just finished a really good run to Evaccaneer's second phase with 83m score! hopefully I can get it finished off today, we'll see :)

[Steven]

Well, that's just ignorant. Ignocance and/or elitism, there are no other names for it.
STGs are good in all their forms, if you ask me.

Just with Mars Matrix and Soukyuugurentai alone there is enough proof that you can have a 4:3 vertical game and make it one of the best games in the genre. I'd understand if it's a poor conversion of a 3:4 game, but if the game is originally designed to be 4:3 I don't see what the problem is. People are complaining about Tatsujin Extreme being 16:9 with horizontal scrolling, but they haven't actually played it and I have. I know it works because I played the demo and it's glorious.

Not to mention there's tons of original vertical shmups on NES, SNES, Genesis, and Game Gear that are "vertizontal" shmups because they were designed to be played on a 4:3 or square screen. It's really only arcade games that are vertical with a vertical screen orientation, or games with borders such as Japanese doujin shmups (x.x's games, Touhou, etc).

There might indeed be more 4:3 verticals than 3:4 verticals, which is interesting to think about. Most of the major 3:4 vertical arcade shooters got 4:3 home versions, and then there are a bunch of 4:3 PC-only and console-only verticals like CRS 68k, which oh hey also happens to be one of the best games in the genre. Yes, technically it uses a 512x512 resolution and therefore isn't technically 4:3, but nobody cares, especially because they're too busy thinking about how awesome the game is instead.

It also frustrates me when people dismiss horizontal shmups and are vertical only purists. There's a ton of great horizontal games out there to experience.

Yeah, that reminds me of that one interview in which a certain someone said he hates horizontals, and this is also the same one where he admits they had no idea what they were doing with the aspect ratio of the home versions of the vertical games, interestingly. I've never talked to him about it, but I have heard that supposedly he likes R-Type.

There is also weird but cool stuff like Scramble, a 3:4 horizontal game. I really like that game, and I never realized that it's a tall horizontal until relatively recently, but I don't think anyone's going to complain about it. As long as the game is designed correctly for its intended aspect ratio, that's all you need, and if the game's design is broken, tate mode won't save it. Like I don't think that there is anyone out there that's like "Action 52's various vertical shooters would be so much better if they had tate mode!" but it also wouldn't surprise me if there is.

This is actually something that I have been thinking about recently, as a few months ago I realized that although I started with R-Type, almost all of my favourite shooters are verticals. I don't specifically prefer vertical over horizontal, and I'd honestly say that I like both formats equally, it just turned out that most of the games that I love are vertical for some reason.

Some people are understandably skeptical of remakes of 4:3 aspect games into 16:9 widescreen, but a lot of the time it's pretty successful and doesn't fundamentally break anything. Wild Guns Reloaded is a great example of this. The screen's bigger, but it still works just fine for single player.

I sadly still haven't played Wild Guns Reloaded yet, but the new Kiki Kaikai is actually a 4:3-ish game that by default is stretched to 16:9. Fortunately it can be fixed, although you end up with some borders on the left and right that can't be disabled. Wild Guns might be the same.

[Bassa-Bassa]

The new Kiki Kaikai is natively a 16:9 game, actually. These are its graphics when restored at their native resolution:



Here's how they compare with the original SFC version (we talked about Wild Guns there as well):

viewtopic.php?p=1557578&sid=c176b60d1b6 ... 2#p1557578

But seems indeed that Natsume doesn't really care about resolutions, given how they deal with the issue.

There might indeed be more 4:3 verticals than 3:4 verticals, which is interesting to think about.

Not on the arcades by a mile, which is the only environment where vertically mounted monitors were realistically possible.

Talking about this with a friend he made me realize that, on a CRT, the natural way to scroll the graphics from a technical point of view is by following the direction of the raster beam. You usually lose the effect of a progressive scan (the "scanlines") in a game's background which scrolls vertically on a horizontal screen. So even if we leave apart that getting visible a larger area upwards kind of makes sense, in principle, on a game where most obstacles come from above, there's that technical bit.

It doesn't mean that a game can't work flawlessly whichever the aspect ratio and whichever the scroll, goes without saying.

Most of the major 3:4 vertical arcade shooters got 4:3 home versions,

Again, there was no other option. Many didn't even get an actual 4:3 viewport, and, when hardware scaling became possible, 3:4 viewport on a 4:3 screen was suddenly a thing. Not to mention "tate" modes. It was for a reason.

and then there are a bunch of 4:3 PC-only and console-only verticals like CRS 68k, which oh hey also happens to be one of the best games in the genre. Yes, technically it uses a 512x512 resolution and therefore isn't technically 4:3

But it is technically 4:3 (or 3:4). Pixels aren't squares, much less on the X68000.

[Steven]

The new Kiki Kaikai is natively a 16:9 game, actually. These are its graphics when restored at their native resolution:



Here's how they compare with the original SFC version (we talked about Wild Guns there as well):

viewtopic.php?p=1557578&sid=c176b60d1b6 ... 2#p1557578

But seems indeed that Natsume doesn't really care about resolutions, given how they deal with the issue.

So they used a size that is actually 16:9 but that doesn't scale properly to anything, so it looks fucked up no matter what you set it to. Leave it at its default 112 setting to get a 16:9 aspect ratio and the pixels aren't evenly sized so it looks like complete shit, but set it to 100 to get even pixel sizes and it's not the intended or internal aspect ratio even though it looks like it should be correct. Great job. I just lost a lot of respect for Tengo Project. I kind of don't want to buy any more of their games now.

Not on the arcades by a mile, which is the only environment where vertically mounted monitors were realistically possible.

Not in arcades, but in total, of course.

But it is technically 4:3 (or 3:4). Pixels aren't squares, much less on the X68000.

lol please provide mathematical proof that 512x512 is not a 1:1 ratio. It may not look that way on a CRT because that's how CRTs work, but it's indeed a 1:1 ratio. It's not like a 320x240 resolution, which is actually 4:3, and of course spinning it 90 degrees does give a 3:4.