R2TRRFF: High-speed Hedgehog Monogatari & Knuckles

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
Steven
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Re: R2TRRFF: High-speed Hedgehog Monogatari & Knuckles

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ryu wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2025 9:05 am
Steven wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2025 1:15 am Warning about Adventure 1 and 2: both are varying levels of messed up unless you play the original Dreamcast versions
What's bad about Adventure 2 on Gamecube? Always thought that one was fine
The graphics are noticeably worse than on Dreamcast, mostly in cutscenes, like Amy's pink teeth. I don't remember exactly, but I want to say that audio quality and audio balance are also worse on Gamecube or something like that, which is not good because the audio is already not great on Dreamcast.

It's not nearly as big of a difference as Adventure 1, but the Dreamcast version is still better. People will argue for the Gamecube version, but the only things they have to use in their argument are the expansions to the Chao Garden and multiplayer.

Dreamcast also has the rad VGA box for glorious pristine video while getting better than composite or maybe S-video out of a Gamecube is an expensive pain and potentially impossible if you have the wrong Gamecube, so there's also that, even though that's not really anything to do with the game itself. I mean I guess you can just use a Wii if you really wanted to, but then you wouldn't be playing the Dreamcast version anyway. This game has really damn nice graphics for a 2001 console game on hardware released in 1998, too, so you might as well enjoy those graphics; the game still looks pretty great today!

This is partially due to the lighting. The developers couldn't get the lighting systems of Sonic Adventure 1 and 2, both of which were very advanced lighting systems for console games of that era, to work properly on Gamecube. I don't know the reason for this, but the lighting in particular is way worse on the Gamecube versions of both games.
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Re: R2TRRFF: High-speed Hedgehog Monogatari & Knuckles

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Thank you all! Quite disappointed to hear the games have not been ported well to Steam. Can't imagine it would have been the most difficult task either. Had my eye on Origins, but it seems not to be worth the cost.
XoPachi wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 3:29 pm The Genesis era games are still great. 1 and 2 are still available in the Genesis collection and you are effectively buying ROM's so you can play them in any emulator you want.
Unfortunately, the Genesis collection on Steam was discontinued a few months ago. I was hoping it might mean the M2 ports were coming to PC, but most people seem to believe SEGA will move to some kind of subscription to access older games. Which would suck.

I will pick up Transformed though - it's only like $3 on sale.
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Re: R2TRRFF: High-speed Hedgehog Monogatari & Knuckles

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BurlyHeart wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2025 3:02 pm Unfortunately, the Genesis collection on Steam was discontinued a few months ago. I was hoping it might mean the M2 ports were coming to PC, but most people seem to believe SEGA will move to some kind of subscription to access older games. Which would suck.

I will pick up Transformed though - it's only like $3 on sale.
They took the whole thing down???
Piracy is king.
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Re: R2TRRFF: High-speed Hedgehog Monogatari & Knuckles

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No need for piracy for Sonic 1 and 2 when Sonic 1 Forever and Sonic 2 Absolute exist, are legally free and easy enough to download, and are probably the best ways to play those games as long as you don't want to play on a real MD/Genesis. 3&K and CD are another matter, unfortunately, as there aren't free versions of those anywhere, but that won't stop people who really want to play either of them.
BurlyHeart wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2025 3:02 pmthe M2 ports
Those are just emulated ROM hacks that add the drop dash and aren't anything special. You can get exactly the same experience on a real MD/Genesis or an emulator of your choice with the various drop dash ROM hacks that exist for each game.
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Re: R2TRRFF: High-speed Hedgehog Monogatari & Knuckles

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Steven wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2025 6:32 am No need for piracy for Sonic 1 and 2 when Sonic 1 Forever and Sonic 2 Absolute exist, are legally free and easy enough to download, and are probably the best ways to play those games as long as you don't want to play on a real MD/Genesis. 3&K and CD are another matter, unfortunately, as there aren't free versions of those anywhere, but that won't stop people who really want to play either of them.
Thank you for mentioning this twice. I actually didn't fully grasp what you were talking about, but went searching, and oh my, these are fantastic. Much obliged!
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Re: R2TRRFF: High-speed Hedgehog Monogatari & Knuckles

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BurlyHeart wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2025 2:59 pm
Steven wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2025 6:32 am No need for piracy for Sonic 1 and 2 when Sonic 1 Forever and Sonic 2 Absolute exist, are legally free and easy enough to download, and are probably the best ways to play those games as long as you don't want to play on a real MD/Genesis. 3&K and CD are another matter, unfortunately, as there aren't free versions of those anywhere, but that won't stop people who really want to play either of them.
Thank you for mentioning this twice. I actually didn't fully grasp what you were talking about, but went searching, and oh my, these are fantastic. Much obliged!
They are indeed glorious. Don't forget about Sonic 3 A.I.R., which is a similar thing but for Sonic 3&K, but you'll need to provide a Sonic 3&K ROM for it to work. I guess there is also a similar thingy for CD, but I haven't looked into it yet. Mania also has a decompilation, although at this point I know less about that than about the one for CD.
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Re: R2TRRFF: High-speed Hedgehog Monogatari & Knuckles

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Sonic Unleased unofficial PC port is up. Haven't looked at the process to get it working, but it's available. If anyone tries before I do, let me know how it is.
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Re: R2TRRFF: High-speed Hedgehog Monogatari & Knuckles

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Steven wrote: Sun Mar 02, 2025 3:38 am Sonic Unleased unofficial PC port is up. Haven't looked at the process to get it working, but it's available. If anyone tries before I do, let me know how it is.
It's a dream come true. You COULD ask for more bells and whistles, but it gives you everything you'd reasonably want from a PC port. It doesn't even seem like a fan work.
There aren't a crazy amount of options, but it gives you enough and even lets you shut off the Werehog battle theme.

I did have a crash once, but it otherwise runs like butter with much faster load times.
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Re: R2TRRFF: High-speed Hedgehog Monogatari & Knuckles

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Hell yeah. I haven't gotten the disc image or whatever it is that you need to make the thing work yet because I'm lazy, but I'll figure it out eventually.

This being the 360 version does of course mean that someone could make a similar Windows port of something like Saidaioujou if they wanted to. It's not like CAVE is going to do it.
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Re: R2TRRFF: High-speed Hedgehog Monogatari & Knuckles

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Steven wrote: Wed Mar 05, 2025 2:45 am Hell yeah. I haven't gotten the disc image or whatever it is that you need to make the thing work yet because I'm lazy, but I'll figure it out eventually.

This being the 360 version does of course mean that someone could make a similar Windows port of something like Saidaioujou if they wanted to. It's not like CAVE is going to do it.
Someone is claiming to be assembling a team to do this with Ninja Gaiden 2.
Also, I haven't gotten a crash again since the first one.
There's only one extremely minor oddity that is easily circumvented and that is my analog stick not registering up inputs in menus. But that's instantly solved by using the dpad in menus which works fine. Other than that, it's as if Sega did this themselves. 99.998% faultless. It's basically perfect.
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Re: R2TRRFF: High-speed Hedgehog Monogatari & Knuckles

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Just thought this was interesting. You don't see a lot of Blaze speedruns since she's slower. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao1FU4ljxf4
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Re: R2TRRFF: High-speed Hedgehog Monogatari & Knuckles

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laughing and joking I noticed that on PS4/PS5/ONE/XSX/NSW there are 10 Sonic games. Forces, Mania, Team Racing, Frontiers, Superstars, Generation x Shadow and the compilation Origins (which has 1,2,3 and CD).
Not even when SEGA was still making consoles did they ever release so many on a single one.
However, the HUB in Generation x Shadow, in the Shadow campaign, seemed to me like a step towards a hypothetical "Sonic Adventure 3", rather than that huge map of Frontier (which in my opinion didn't need to be open world at all, it seems more like a choice dictated by the fashion of that year between Horizon Forbidden West and Elden Ring instead). The structure is the same, but more contained like the areas of Adventure.

However, for some reason, I always hope that one day a 90+ Sonic will come out at MetaCritic.
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Re: R2TRRFF: High-speed Hedgehog Monogatari & Knuckles

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XoPachi wrote: Thu Mar 06, 2025 10:39 pmOther than that, it's as if Sega did this themselves.
If Sega had done it, they would've somehow found a way to make it worse than the original releases in addition to adding Denuvo to make it online-only. The company's ineptitude is appalling.
Lemnear wrote: Mon Mar 10, 2025 6:44 pm laughing and joking I noticed that on PS4/PS5/ONE/XSX/NSW there are 10 Sonic games. Forces, Mania, Team Racing, Frontiers, Superstars, Generation x Shadow and the compilation Origins (which has 1,2,3 and CD).
Not even when SEGA was still making consoles did they ever release so many on a single one.
Just the Switch alone has at least three different instances of both Sonic 1 and Sonic 2: Sega Ages, MD & Genesis Classics, and Origins. At this point, Sonic 1 has to be one of the most rereleased games ever. I don't really think there was a need for three separate Sonic 1s on the same console, but that's how it turned out. Windows has at least three separate official Sonic 1 releases as well, but it took over 30 years to get to that point while the Switch reached it in like 5.
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Re: R2TRRFF: High-speed Hedgehog Monogatari & Knuckles

Post by TransatlanticFoe »

Sonic 2 is also in the expansion pack for the Switch's online service :lol:
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Re: R2TRRFF: High-speed Hedgehog Monogatari & Knuckles

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lol there's another one? That's way too many! That said, I like this because the thought of so many redundant Sonic 2s on one system makes me laugh at how silly it is, so I guess I am not complaining.
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Re: R2TRRFF: High-speed Hedgehog Monogatari & Knuckles

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XoPachi wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2025 3:33 am
BurlyHeart wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2025 3:02 pm Unfortunately, the Genesis collection on Steam was discontinued a few months ago. I was hoping it might mean the M2 ports were coming to PC, but most people seem to believe SEGA will move to some kind of subscription to access older games. Which would suck.

I will pick up Transformed though - it's only like $3 on sale.
They took the whole thing down???
Piracy is king.
Keeping a MegaDrive around is king. It's always surprising to me that you can be into video games, and not have at least one MegaDrive :D :D
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Re: R2TRRFF: High-speed Hedgehog Monogatari & Knuckles

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Indeed. I have five Mega Drives myself! Only use three of them, though.
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Re: R2TRRFF: High-speed Hedgehog Monogatari & Knuckles

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But when you do, you use them all at the same time I'm sure.
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Re: R2TRRFF: High-speed Hedgehog Monogatari & Knuckles

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Only two at at time, not three. One is the Nomad, one is the Mega Jet, and the other is the MD+Mega-CD+32X, all Japanese save the Nomad, of course. Nomad + any other one is possible, but I don't have enough video cables for two non-Nomads at once.
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Re: R2TRRFF: High-speed Hedgehog Monogatari & Knuckles

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I'm unfortunately not blessed with infinite space, money, or trust in 35 year old hardware lasting longer than the data I can just download, back up, and play on nearly anything unrestricted. I'll stick to emulation over physical.
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Re: R2TRRFF: High-speed Hedgehog Monogatari & Knuckles

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I got Generations x Shadow mainly for Sonic Generations (despite platinuming it on PS3) and...well in 4K 60fps it's a joy! I haven't played many levels in the Shadow campaign, nice even if it's a bit strange...(also you can see from a mile away that Team Sonic really liked Dr Strange :lol: )

To return to the other topic:
I can't judge Sonic Frontiers, it seems cool but I wouldn't want it to be uselessly dispersive with things to search for, I don't know...I no longer have the patience I once had to wander around virtual worlds, I can only do it if it's From Software stuff for some reason (btw if there's one thing i hate it's the pop-in of things...)
However I agree on the unplayability of Adventure 1&2, I've never played Sonic 2006, but the initial cinematic is perhaps the most badass ever made in a Sonic game. Heroes isn't that bad after all, I honestly liked it, and Force isn't that bad either, but I wasn't crazy about the variety of stages, I appreciated being able to create your own character and the destructive power-ups, the thing that made me turn up my nose were some level design choices... like in a sequence at full speed with the turbo, why the fuck is there a step just to stop the action? WTF? Also, some areas were a bit bare not in terms of presentation but in terms of level design.
Colors is adorable!
Unleashed is love and hate. The daytime parts are phenomenal, maybe the most beautiful ever made in a 3D Sonic, the sense of speed is crazy! But then it has the night phases that are horrifying... incredibly tedious.

I've never played Boom or the other Sonic for Wii whose names I don't even remember :roll: .

Who knows what they'll do with the next Sonic Racing, I really liked the aesthetics of Team Sonic Racing, but it had very few tracks :?
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Re: R2TRRFF: High-speed Hedgehog Monogatari & Knuckles

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Adventure 1 is good, though... except for Sky Chase. Every time I play the game I wish I could skip Sky Chase. I've been playing the PC version with the Dreamcast restoration mods recently and it's pretty great. I guess I can retire my Dreamcast copies now. Anyway, it's the only official 3D Sonic game to even try to do the physics from the 2D games and it mostly succeeds. The controls feel really loose at times and a few of the characters aren't very fun to play as (mostly Amy), but it's a generally solid game. At least it is until you clip through the floors, which aren't solid enough. I've mostly played the Japanese Dreamcast version, where falling through the floor happens on occasion, but the PC version seems fine. Not sure about the specific bug fixes in Sonic Adventure International, but I know that it's less glitchy than the Japanese version.

I still haven't tried the new Unleashed PC version yet. I keep forgetting. Maybe I'll remember eventually.
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Re: R2TRRFF: High-speed Hedgehog Monogatari & Knuckles

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US fixed a few of the glitches but still has spots where you can fall through floors (or similar physics glitches).

edit: International is based off US, and includes its fixes, but I'm not sure if it's the same.
Last edited by BrianC on Thu Mar 20, 2025 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: R2TRRFF: High-speed Hedgehog Monogatari & Knuckles

Post by ryu »

DX is the only version of Adventure I ever fell through the floor. Didn't even know it could happen on the Dreamcast releases. :roll:

And I'm having a strong feeling of déjà vu. Didn't we have this exact discussion before?
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Re: R2TRRFF: High-speed Hedgehog Monogatari & Knuckles

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The stairs by Tails's lab have glitchy physics. I fell of them a few times expecting Sonic to move differently. DC US version (not fixed in DX, IIRC).
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Re: R2TRRFF: High-speed Hedgehog Monogatari & Knuckles

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BrianC wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 5:34 pm US fixed a few of the glitches but still has spots where you can fall through floors (or similar physics glitches).

edit: International is based off US, and includes its fixes, but I'm not sure if it's the same.
I'm pretty sure they're the same. Not 100% sure, but pretty sure. I went to check the release date for International and found that the website is still up after almost 30 years: https://sonic.sega.jp/sonicadv_int/

International released a month and about a week after the US version. I wonder if there actually might be any differences. I'll go check The Cutting Room Floor in a while.
ryu wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 9:40 pm DX is the only version of Adventure I ever fell through the floor. Didn't even know it could happen on the Dreamcast releases. :roll:

And I'm having a strong feeling of déjà vu. Didn't we have this exact discussion before?
lol yeah, I think we did talk about this before. It's all good, though.

I've fallen through the floor in Sky Deck on Dreamcast several times. I think at least one of them was when I was Knuckles, but I don't really remember. Pretty sure I did it in Final Egg at least once as well, as I seem to have a memory of clipping through one of the platforms that go up and down in that one part of the level. You can definitely clip through the floor on Dreamcast if you are unlucky, but it's more common on Gamecube, especially with the infamous spot before the loop in Emerald Coast, which doesn't even happen on Dreamcast. Those loops themselves are pretty glitchy as it is. I got ejected from one horizontally on PC the other day. It was the very first one in the level. Somehow I managed to not die.

If you want to fall through the floor on Dreamcast, I know a spot where it's guaranteed to happen. Be Sonic and stand outside the entrance to Emerald Coast. Charge your spin dash and then spin dash into Emerald Coast. You'll fall through the floor. Works every time. You won't die because the level transition saves you in time.
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