BareKnuckleRoo wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 8:05 pm
edit: lol, totally missed that ScHlAuChi or someone claiming to be him posted.
Your first post and we're already off to a rough start. As previously stated
It is indeed me! Is it a rough start becasue I´m not saying what you want to hear?
So yeah, that sums it up nicely. Your descriptions on videos still often fail to mention that they are tool-assisted runs and not skill displays, which results in you receiving many comments praising the skill involved and gives a flawed impression on many games of how natural play would actually work. In order to find an explicit disclaimer about tool assistance I had to click your site link, click FAQ, click General, scroll to the bottom and click another tab. It's extremely odd you'd make people do this rather than simply put under each video description "This is a tool-assisted run that uses slowdown and savestates in order to record the whole game and is not intended as a skill showcase!". Your defense that it's fine because there's a disclaimer buried deep on your website
The disclaimer that we use savestates can be found:
- On our website
- In our YT channel info
- In every video description
So you cant really claim its buried when the info is everywhere!
However, that info only matters if someone cares enough to look it up.
One of the most reoccuring comments is: How does a single person have so much time to play every videogame?
How can such a question happen when the info who played a game is pretty much everywhere, including the video itself?
The answer is simple: 8% of the WoL YT visitors are subscribers, 92% are randoms - and the randoms simply dont care about any info!
Oof. So, by not doing a good job of differentiating between actual legitimate runs and tool-assisted runs, you're creating confusion for your viewers and you're devaluing the work of people who've put effort into learning to play the game well enough to record it vs the people who play it by simply savestating their way to the ending. That's bad.
As established above, the viewers simply do not care! No one of our team of longplayers cares about the differentiation either, we only care about our goal and how to reach it.
If I could erase my memory of this Progear longplay from my mind, I would. Can shmups footage that doesn't even attempt to learn the game mechanics be said to be worthwhile?
I agree that it isnt worthwhile to hardcore players, but back then we did not really have standards, like with every community, standards develop over time.
Alot of videos that were acceptable back then, wouldnt be anymore now, and we have been replacing bad ones over time.
I wouldnt record such a game anymore unless I´m sure I can show it correctly. But the easiest way to get rid of that video is when someone records a better video, so we can replace it.
BIL wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2024 9:49 pmHoly fuckin shit, this thread summoned ScHlAuChi.
One of your forum members, a fellow gamedev friend informed me about this thread, so I thought I come by to clear things up
Sima Tuna wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2024 12:56 pmThis response is pretty much what I expected. It's what I always hear from these kinds of cheated runs. "It's ok because there's no expectation of us not cheating." "It's ok because we show off the games to a wider audience than would see them." "It's okay because we put a disclaimer on our website nobody visits, instead of on YouTube where everyone was finding them for years." "It's okay because (after community pressure) we added the disclaimer to descriptions."
The disclaimer is on Youtube everywhere now - the only reason this was added is so people like you would stop annoying us. You call it "Community Pressure", I call it hassling.
All you have to do is look at the comments section to any of your playthroughs on world of longplays and you will see the majority of commenters believe you are playing the game legitimately, without cheating. So whatever WoL is doing to notify people the runs are cheated is clearly not sufficient. To me, there is a very strong element of Stolen Valor in the youtube culture of cheated/unmarked TAS runs. You create a false impression of yourself, the games (because your strategies do not work) and longplays in general.
Those commenters simply do not care! There can be no stolen valor if those people dont value valor! You cant force them to be not ignorant!
Some may disagree, but I don't think a tas or cheated run is a fair longplay of a video game.
You can have that view, but you have to accept that there is a giant community out there, who does not see it that way.
In my opinion, the titles for all WoL runs should include either (TAS) or (SAVESTATE) in them.
Adding that in the title is a surefire way to confuse people and the Youtube algorithm.
"Tool Assisted Speedruns" is a completely different category of videos, its like pancakes vs crepes, same same, but different!
We have no interest for the TAS community to go after us for "stealing" views by mislabeling our videos.
And even if it was added, it wouldnt solve anything, as random YT viewers dont know what a TAS or even a savestate is!
PerishedFraud ឵឵ wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2024 7:29 pm
Now, an important note:
Does WoL have to listen to any of us? Hell no. It's what I think would stop the deluge of unaware viewers...but the entire issue is incredibly minor and not what I would label a scandal to begin with. The reasoning: Most viewers won't devote time to practice a game to begin with. Thus my attitude towards WoL is entirely neutral. Hopefully that part is crystal clear.
This here, is a very good point. When people started to hassle us, we could have just told them to fuck off, ban and ignore them, but instead we did listen and we did offer reasonable solutions!
For some people this obviously still isnt enough, but there is a point where the demands are just getting too unreasonable to bother with.
At the end of the day, it is exactly as PerishedFraud says, the viewers of those longplays arent hardcore players that want to learn the game, it is just random people who want to see old games.