Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

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Konsolkongen
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by Konsolkongen »

It's really great. I wonder if it would be possible to modify the original disc channel to boot into USB Loader GX? If all the USB Loader GX graphics and text could be disabled and just display a black screen which only autoboots discs then it would feel very much like an unmodified system :)

You can still see how the red colors aren't aligned properly due to chroma subsampling. But otherwise I think this game looks alright:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... G_0048.jpg
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... G_0051.jpg
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... G_0067.jpg
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... G_0060.jpg
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bobrocks95
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by bobrocks95 »

Modifying the disc channel probably won't ever be possible. I don't think a lot of work has been done with modifying channels because all anyone is looking for are new custom ones. Much more likely would be someone figuring out a system-wide way to disable the deflicker filter, but that breaks some effects on games and again probably isn't being looked into by anyone.

Disc loading in USB Loader GX looks to me like it was really there mainly to install games to a USB drive, and directly launching them was an afterthought. Hence the redundant drive reset for anything other than installing.

I haven't had a chance to build and test it yet but Extrems has seemingly added disc autobooting to Swiss: https://www.gc-forever.com/forums/viewt ... 39c#p52183
Might be able to find someone still building nightlies for Swiss. GameCube is officially off topic for the Wii 480p fix though ;).
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Rulumi
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by Rulumi »

Just using a forwarder channel should be easier and safer.

As for Swiss, it technically can be used on the Wii and the 480p fix needs to be applied as well for GameCube games (patching it on the Home Menu from Priiloader should patch it if booting to GameCube mode from the "Disc Channel"). So while not fully off-topic, I guess it sort of is as most people won't use it on the Wii nowdays.
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Extrems
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by Extrems »

bobrocks95 wrote:I haven't had a chance to build and test it yet but Extrems has seemingly added disc autobooting to Swiss: https://www.gc-forever.com/forums/viewt ... 39c#p52183
Might be able to find someone still building nightlies for Swiss. GameCube is officially off topic for the Wii 480p fix though ;).
We have CI builds. Go to the Actions tab.
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Rulumi
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by Rulumi »

Early RVL-CPU-01 (2006), the 480p fix patch works perfectly on it. And I think that should be enough examples for now from my part having already shared here examples from the later RVL-CPU-01, the RVK-CPU-01 and the Wii U with the current version of evWii.

Image

Image
Spoiler
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
RebeL9
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by RebeL9 »

This is so confusing. First I was of the impression that the later Wii revisions had fixed the issue. Now it seems like in order to get the best image you need an early revision to apply the fix to get the best image. SO CONFUSING!
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bobrocks95
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by bobrocks95 »

RebeL9 wrote:This is so confusing. First I was of the impression that the later Wii revisions had fixed the issue. Now it seems like in order to get the best image you need an early revision to apply the fix to get the best image. SO CONFUSING!
As I was trying to emphasize, I think people should be much more worried about the deflicker filter than the 480p fix. Look at my Animal Crossing screenshot or earlier Mario Kart Wii text zoom and see if you can really tell a difference.

Either way an HDMI mod will dodge the 480p bug and is recommended and supported by all models with electron shepherd's new AVE-HDMI board.
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Extrems
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by Extrems »

RebeL9 wrote:This is so confusing. First I was of the impression that the later Wii revisions had fixed the issue. Now it seems like in order to get the best image you need an early revision to apply the fix to get the best image. SO CONFUSING!
It's what we get for trusting people on the Internet. I was never able to confirm it myself.
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Link83
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by Link83 »

RebeL9 wrote:This is so confusing. First I was of the impression that the later Wii revisions had fixed the issue. Now it seems like in order to get the best image you need an early revision to apply the fix to get the best image. SO CONFUSING!
It seems to be the equivalent of a myth thats just been passed along and eventually enough people repeat it and start to believe it must be true, without any definitive proof one way or another. I even questioned this years ago without any reply:-
https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.p ... 1#p1370151

I first remember reading the rumour of later revisions having better picture quality in this thread:-
https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=51789
But it was just one anecdotal report, and it was never clarified which DAC/encoder model was installed in each Wii revision to determine how much that played a part in the output quality.

I think people are often biased into thinking 'later/newer console revision = better' when the opposite is just as likely, due to cut features/compatibility issues (GC/Wii Model 101, OG Xbox 1.6, Xbox 360 E, PS2 Slim, etc)
Last edited by Link83 on Tue Apr 18, 2023 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Rulumi
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by Rulumi »

Indeed, I have seen a lot of people saying so since various years ago, but really when testing I found that there really wasn't much of a difference if any and the software fix also doesn't seem to do much on the later AV Encoders.

In the case of Nintendo most of the time their older revisions hardware it's better on the build quality and related at first as a lot of time their revisions aim to reduce production costs, albeit on the GameCube and Wii most revisions really aren't that different internally when compared to other Nintendo systems revisions.

As for wheter or not the fix will matter much or not may vary on the person, for a lot of people just an slightly blur on the horizontal side won't matter much or if scaling the image what they use may really hide it mostly and it is really mostly a problem when using software with an horizontal 1:1 output and a clean scale or the original resolution of the console on one's screen (and the person likes a clear and clean image), which not everyone may will or want to do.

For now I tested a bit around with the Register 65h of the AV Encoder on the later RVL-CPU-01 that I have, but haven't found much yet, may have to look more deep into it and the rest of the other avaliable registers avalible through software responses on the "newer" AVE's.

Albeit if someone else can check this and also wether something in hardware was modified with this specific register on the "newer" AVE's may be more helpful.
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Link83
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by Link83 »

Has anyone looked into the 'gigaleak' to see if that has any information regarding the register values for the AVE-RVL Wii DAC revision's? I tried looking and was only able to find information that showed during development Nintendo used the Conexant CX25875 as a placeholder Wii DAC model before the final DAC chips were ready.

Although the CX25875 pinout is different to the final AVE-RVL chip, I wonder if any of the register values were copied by ROHM/Ricoh for the final AVE-RVL chips? The CX25875 427-page datasheet with register values can be found here:-
https://z3d9b7u8.stackpathcdn.com/pdf-d ... ystems.pdf

It would be nice to fill in the gaps in the wiibrew wiki:-
https://wiibrew.org/wiki/Hardware/AV_Encoder
http://www.gc-linux.org/wiki/AVE-RVL
Last edited by Link83 on Wed Apr 19, 2023 12:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Rulumi
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by Rulumi »

The value of register 65h is the one changed within the 480p fix, but I didn't found much effect with that register values with that previous test yet on the later ones.

Even so, the "newer" models of the AVE chip could have some differences from the original ones, which may be why the current fix doesn't work properly on them.
RebeL9
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by RebeL9 »

So hold a sec. If the 480p pixel fix isn't functioning, then why was it added in USB Loader GX?

So let's say that it only works on the early revision and what if deflicker and 480p pixel fix are both activated in USB Loader GX? Does that allow for even sharper image?
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Rulumi
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by Rulumi »

It works fine on the older consoles.

And it should be sharper if using a 1:1 horizontal output for the software and disabling the copy filter. Check the images that I sent from the 2006 console, they are all without the copy filter and using a 1:1 horizontal output.

The Air Ride images are from Nintendont (latest version already has the bug fix) and GameCube mode using Swiss, to apply it to GameCube mode what's booting GameCube mode needs to have the 480p bug fix applied for it to be kept on GameCube mode.
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bobrocks95
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by bobrocks95 »

Do you think 1:1 horizontal scaling, deflicker filter removed, and the 480p fix combined make 16:9 pretty usable on Wii, or do you still stick with 4:3? I switched recently but I'm definitely not used to pillarboxing on Wii titles. I wonder if a lot of widescreen support for Wii was just vert- anyway, I can't find a lot of mention of it.

Either way I'll probably wait until I have a Retrotink just because LG's all-direction zoom does adjustments in really big chunks so it's a little clunky to use.
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kimbapslice
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by kimbapslice »

I think it's a combination of easy to use and high quality tools being available (RetroTink5x for me) so we can rule out variances in adjustment - making the testing process repeatable. I am glad more people are looking into this and hopefully we can get a universal fix for all wii revisions.
Link83 wrote:
RebeL9 wrote:This is so confusing. First I was of the impression that the later Wii revisions had fixed the issue. Now it seems like in order to get the best image you need an early revision to apply the fix to get the best image. SO CONFUSING!
It seems to be the equivalent of a myth thats just been passed along and eventually enough people repeat it and start to believe it must be true, without any definitive proof one way or another. I even questioned this years ago without any reply:-
https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.p ... 1#p1370151

I first remember reading the rumour of later revisions having better picture quality in this thread:-
https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=51789
But it was just one anecdotal report, and it was never clarified which DAC/encoder model was installed in each Wii revision to determine how much that played a part in the output quality.

I think people are often biased into thinking 'later/newer console revision = better' when the opposite is just as likely, due to cut features/compatibility issues (GC/Wii Model 101, OG Xbox 1.6, Xbox 360 E, PS2 Slim, etc)
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Rulumi
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by Rulumi »

bobrocks95 wrote:Do you think 1:1 horizontal scaling, deflicker filter removed, and the 480p fix combined make 16:9 pretty usable on Wii, or do you still stick with 4:3? I switched recently but I'm definitely not used to pillarboxing on Wii titles. I wonder if a lot of widescreen support for Wii was just vert- anyway, I can't find a lot of mention of it..
It should be better like that if you want a sharper image if you are able to do a good scale by your own on your side, albeit 4:3 on games with a proper full 4:3 mode will always be a bit clearer since the image won't need to be stretched as much usually and sometimes not at all.
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jandrogo
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by jandrogo »

Maybe is a stupid question: what do you use to the connect the wii in 480p throught component cables to a vga monitor?
I know that job can be done with an ossc, retrotink, etc. and then an hdmi-vga converter, but is there something straightforward?

I tried this adapter and didn’t work, maybe the adapter was faulty?

https://www.amazon.es/Ronyme-Convertido ... 102&sr=8-1
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jd213
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by jd213 »

A GBS-C would probably be the easiest option nowadays.
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by jandrogo »

jd213 wrote:A GBS-C would probably be the easiest option nowadays.
Thanks for your reply. Yes, maybe is the cheapest and convenient option, but the monitor default resolution is 640x480 so I would like to avoid lag/processing if possible.

I have a Dreamcast, a MisterFPGA and x360 wired to an Extron VGA Ars and then to the monitor (everything 640x480). I want to add the wii to the Extron, but the adapter I linked previously doesn't work properly, I don't know if the adapter was faulty or it can't handle properly the resolutions.

Asking because I see everybody using upscalers or mod the wii with hdmi out, but not using a direct component-vga converter.
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jd213
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by jd213 »

Yeah, I can understand not wanting to use a GBS-C, even if it's lag isn't noticeable my OCD probably wouldn't let me be 100% satisfied with it either.

Not sure if there are any good options that are still being made though. Looking around on Google, it looks like there used to be an Extron box and a StarTech device, as well as the Crescendo RTC2200 (which is what I use for Wii), so I guess you could try looking for those on eBay. I imagine they internally do analog>digital>analog conversion anyway, so maybe an OSSC or Retrotink + HDMI to VGA box is the best way to go.
RebeL9
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by RebeL9 »

Wobble Pixel recently uploaded this video and I thought it would give some clarity into what the different methods of getting clearer image actually does.
https://youtu.be/sjECzM61atg
RebeL9
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by RebeL9 »

Ok here’s a comparison between a RVL-CPU-01 and RVL-CPU-50. An early and a later board.
Pics captured directly off my BVM D24 using OEM component cable.

RVL-01 with deflicker, 480p patch and 4:3

Image


RVL-50 with deflicker, 480p patch and 4:3

Image


RVL-50 original image, no patching and 16:9

Image


I need to do more comparisons but it seems like there is a slight increase in sharpness when applying the 480p patch to an original model compared to a later board.
kimbapslice
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by kimbapslice »

Thanks for the comparison shots. The og with the 480p fix is definitely sharper.
RebeL9
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by RebeL9 »

kimbapslice wrote:Thanks for the comparison shots. The og with the 480p fix is definitely sharper.
I plan to capture more shots. Which games uses alot of filtering and would be good to try out in comparison?
Ikaruga11
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by Ikaruga11 »

Does the WiiDual fix all of these issues? Also, how does the WiiDual compare in image quality to the new AVE-HDMI mod on a launch Wii?
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by bobrocks95 »

Ikaruga11 wrote:Does the WiiDual fix all of these issues? Also, how does the WiiDual compare in image quality to the new AVE-HDMI mod on a launch Wii?
WiiDual and AVE-HDMI look identical since they both use GCVideo DVI for output. Just make sure you update your WiiDual since it's probably on an old GCVideo firmware given when boards were last made.
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Rulumi
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by Rulumi »

GCVideo solutions will bypass the 480p bug, other video patches if you'll like to use them still have to be patched in software (deflicker, framebuffer resolution output size).

The WiiDual and AVE-HDMI should look identical over HDMI as long as both are in the latest firmware update I think.

For analogue video output, the older Wii's with the software patch for 480p may be an slightly better option, if more inconvenient to some for having to apply the patch in software. The AVE-HDMI doesn't modify the analogue video output unlike the WiiDual, so it still works as normal without any modifications to it.
emmeka
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by emmeka »

Link83 wrote:
RebeL9 wrote:This is so confusing. First I was of the impression that the later Wii revisions had fixed the issue. Now it seems like in order to get the best image you need an early revision to apply the fix to get the best image. SO CONFUSING!
It seems to be the equivalent of a myth thats just been passed along and eventually enough people repeat it and start to believe it must be true, without any definitive proof one way or another. I even questioned this years ago without any reply:-
https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.p ... 1#p1370151

I first remember reading the rumour of later revisions having better picture quality in this thread:-
https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=51789
But it was just one anecdotal report, and it was never clarified which DAC/encoder model was installed in each Wii revision to determine how much that played a part in the output quality.

I think people are often biased into thinking 'later/newer console revision = better' when the opposite is just as likely, due to cut features/compatibility issues (GC/Wii Model 101, OG Xbox 1.6, Xbox 360 E, PS2 Slim, etc)
I remain unconvinced that it's not true. Unless I'm absolutely crazy, as I said earlier there was a difference between my RVL-CPU-01 and my RVL-CPU-60 running version 1.10b of the 240p test suite in 480p mode. On the RVL-CPU-01 the white squares in a checkerboard test pattern appeared grey, on the RVL-CPU-60 they appeared properly white. I think it's more likely that only boards with certain AVE chips have the fix, in one way or another, because it's now been confirmed that not all RVL-CPU-60s do in fact have the same AVE chip.

But I guess I shouldn't discount the possibility that it was just my display handling the outputs differently, for whatever reason: I was testing this on an older EDTV LCD at the time. Unfortunately I don't have the RVL-CPU-01 here anymore to retest this and take pictures (I don't have a capture card to hook it up to for a better test)... but if/when I get it back or pick up another one, I'll try to confirm this. Right now I have both an RVL-CPU-40 and RVL-CPU-60 that both appear to have proper checkerboards. Only other difference between my setup and others I can think of is that mine are wired up through d-terminal cables but I highly doubt the d-terminal data pins are actually making any difference.
Serif
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by Serif »

Is there any update on patching a fix for this or a Discord I can follow to see progress? I recall two modders on Twitter mentioning working on it months ago, but no updates since then.

I wish there were a way of disabling deflicker when launching GC games from the disc channel, since apparently that bypasses using the Wii video encoder, so there's no 480p bug?

Frustrating how close we are to clean video from a Wii without hard modding.
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