What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

[Lander]

Mechwarrior 5: Mercenaries

Ach, the legendary series' most conflicted child

Still they fixed it with the update.... and they decided to rip out the incredibly useful button to centre the torso to the direction you're looking, and replace it with melee button. Which might be truer to Battletech but hasn't been in a Mechwarrior game up to now (well not directly, previously you applied melee-like damage by running into another mech), so whyyyyyy.

I'm not sure what the console remapping situation looks like, but I'm pretty sure I had both Center Torso to Legs and Center Legs to Torso bindings when I played it on my PC setup.

I think it could have done with a more interesting story than "hunt down the group that killed your father" - which is pretty much the plot of the ye olde SNES Mechwarrior game!

Yeah, the plot was pretty weak, and the cast a bit too plain to make up for it. Nothing so characterful as Spectre taking Star Colonel Aisa Thastus as a bondsman in MW4M; She might be a vicious clan marauder, but now she's our vicious clan marauder

I suspect it had a stronger identity at some point in development, but ended up getting dialed back for final release; there's some cut content floating around that suggests Ryana was going to be older and more rugged - a proper vet who you could see Mason taking orders from, rather than the clean and inoffensive manager we ended up getting.

Anyway huge nostalgia from the moment the mech startup sequence kicks in, right to scraping through a mission and barely able to afford repairs. Though a drawback is I would have preferred non-story missions (mandatory to get cash, mechs and level up to unlock story missions) more accurately reflect in-universe events. A news ticker keeps you informed of events while you're generally just doing one of a handful of objective types over and over, on randomly generated maps - but is kept interesting by the random mechs you face and some multi-mission contracts. There are some tougher missions with more of a storyline to them, but they're often punishingly difficult compared to what's around them - so are usually more of a "come back later" than use them for more interesting progression, which is a shame. Still the gameplay loop is satisfying as long as you move around the galaxy a bit and stretch yourself - otherwise you'd be slowly gaining money fighting the same set of mechs, with the same set of mechs. Nothing like grinding levels but not having heavy enough mechs to handle later missions!

They made the mistake of going all-in on procedural fluff for the base game and gradually expanding it with proper designed campaigns over time, which has the unfortunate side-effect of all the systems being specialized around generative content. Even several expansions later, the exciting authored parts don't feel well-integrated.

A lot of it has been improved by the modding scene on PC; new maps, new mission types, massively improved AI and spawning, comprehensive mechbay with a bunch of cut features from the old games, even the gorgeous 3D cockpit HUD from the prerelease trailers and full-on VR.

But alas, the system design casts a shadow there too; every time a new expansion comes out, they make wide breaking changes to the codebase and nothing works anymore. Mod authors have to update to stay compatible and - inevitably - only some of them will. Some really awesome stuff (like the aforementioned 3D HUD) has been lost to time over the game's lifespan.

Which is why I call it the conflicted child; on paper it has the potential to be the best game in the series by virtue of modern tech, moddability, and an audience of enthusiasts willing to faithfully rebuild the whole Battletech-verse in it given enough time. But it's been dragged out for so long that the scene hasn't been able to settle on a stable version and really start chiseling.

I'll probably get back to it again sometimes, once it's percolated some more. Despite the flaws, stomping around in a giant walking tank is always great fun.

[Sima Tuna]

I completely hate the concept of procedural content in a game like Mechwarrior. This is why Mechwarrior 2 and 3 are superior. Curated content is just more interesting. It ensures you're not engaging with stuff that feels lazy and slapdash. The way that enemy mechs in MW5 functionally spawn right on top of you is dumb too. I prefer when a vehicle sim campaign handles spawns in a very deliberate manner. Either every enemy should be present on the map at the start, or they should spawn in waves from the corners (or designated spawn zones visible beforehand, such as underground lift systems) and give you time to prepare before they hit. Otherwise, any element of strategy goes out the window.

I made a big list of single-player vehicle games a while ago, just for my own personal use and so I could track down any that I had missed. My preference with vehicle combat games has always been for an "Ace Combat like" approach to mission structure and progression.

[TransatlanticFoe]

Controls - centre torso was mapped to Y on release. Y is then "weapon group 5" (i.e. melee) on an update at some point. There is no option to customise mappings, you just had a couple of presets. Rubbish! Also the targeting function on console is hardcoded as "cycle enemy targets" which makes it impossible to see how badly beat up a friendly is. Would have preferred to map "target under reticle" but alas. Still, it's all workable after a while.

Ryana/story - I actually loved the grumpy Yorkshire delivery, like a female Sean Bean. Bastards. I think they also cut a planned story beat about your mother's death too? Still would probably have been a bit dull. Just following the storyline of the actual canon would have been enough with, as you say, cool shit like taking Aisa as a bondsman from MW4.

Procedural content - generally I hate this and would 100% take a curated mission every day of the week. But it kinda works within the context of the gameplay loop, and I find usually mechs spawn in via a dropship. Vehicles pop out of thin air though, which is silly! I wouldn't want it to be "remember how a mission unfolds, memorise, win" so some variables are always welcome. Also nothing so far has been as unwelcome as that fucking impossible Mechwarrior 2: Mercenaries mission where you're taken prisoner and escape - then have to beat up a bunch of light clan mechs in a hovertank with paper armour and a handful of SRM racks!

Mods - it just really annoys me that so often you need the fans to step in and get it right. I guess it's finances and the drip-feed of DLC, plus now the Clans standalone sequel, means the franchise is in a healthier place and the next title gets it right out of the gate. Or am I just being way too optimistic given the overall state of modern gaming

Mechwarrior 3 was how you do a linear campaign. That game was superb, except that all you had to do to beat up a mech was shoot one leg off. Grab some pulse lasers or LB-X autocannons and fucking win it with your eyes closed.

[Lemnear]

Yi-Gi-Oh Duel Links

Is it me or there are a lot of "shmuppy" decks?

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Nier Automata, played the Switch version.

Enjoyed the game, it's certainly a Platinum experience in the sense that the combat's quite good but the game has several flaws that tend to take away from it at times. Well, aside from Vanquish which I think is short but otherwise pretty much perfect. The combat in Nier Automata on foot is quite fun, and experimenting with the weapon types is enjoyable. Automata's main weakness is the overuse of shmup sections. They tend to be too long and forgettable, and relies on the use of gunfire or melee attacks or the dodge to evade the slow but giant patterns, fired by fairly boring popcorn tier enemies. It's not the most offensive shmup minigame ever made but it's clearly present for more cinematic reasons and makes you want to get back to the actual combat of the game. There's a hell of a lot of it though, and it feels like it overstays its welcome very quickly (the motorcycle segment in Bayonetta's more of a novelty the first time even if it's slightly jank to learn, though the missile riding segment is silly and the dodge is nauseating, though it's possible to get through most of it without dodging).

Spoiler

The 9S playthrough's heavy emphasis on hacking also kinda sucks. It's interesting seeing things from his perspective as a character, but his heavy attack button is removed, making combat feel quite odd, and he only carries one weapon at a time, limiting his attack options. You can still technically use heavy attacks, but only with a pause delay or immediately after a neutral dodge it seems, which makes him awkward to use compared to 2B and A2.

You're also encouraged to use hacking a lot. To the point where it loses its novelty rapidly, especially given it tends to kill large enemies MUCH faster than you can, at least not until you're heavily stacked with Critical Up and Taunt + chips which allows you to utterly wreck things. Critical hits have a crazy x5 multiplier apparently and Taunt adds a multiplier on top of that. The fact that 9S's hacking button overrides your heavy attack button instead of say the pod light button or something makes him a lot less interesting to play as and it feels more button mashy (or repeatedly using the spear's charged attack to throw it). Several of his charge attacks outright suck, namely the large sword throw has a hard time hitting anything and the small sword throw deals minimal damage compared to mashing it. His moveset's bland.

A2's moveset is slightly more interesting giving her a far easier and wider reaching taunt at the cost of disabling light charge attacks. I'm not sure why they didn't simply swap the pod flashlight button with it or have it do double duty for her, but she can't do light charge attacks (she sort of can for fist weapons and small swords if you tap and hold very briefly, but the timing is too strict to do it reliably).

My biggest complaint with the game is the plot frankly sucks during the second half of the narrative. Too many sudden conspiracies are uncovered but characters don't comment on them to any meaningful degree and the second half of the game can be summarized as everyone poorly communicates and then goes crazy or dies at the end. A2's reveal about Command having betrayed YorHa goes unacknowledged even after 2B and 9S discover the extent of the conspiracy. Neither A2 nor the pods bother to mention to 9S that 2B's death was a mercy kill. We're expected to believe A2 cuts her hair out of taking up 2B's cause, but then wakes up and at no point goes looking for 9S. 9S never asks A2 about how she knew about the betrayal of YorHa, why she killed 2B. 9S becomes an idiot for the sake of the plot, blatantly mirroring Eve, all so he can have his own personal crazy rampage, nailing it into us that Androids and Machines aren't so different repeatedly. Nier Automata's plot devices aren't subtle, but it's the fact that nobody in the game decides to question anything or communicate anything that frustrates me. The entire second half of the game is driven by nobody bothering to speak to anyone. Poor communication really does kill, with the goal of forcing everyone to experience Greek tragedy levels of misery.

The final part of the game's also fairly weak, it feels too short and on rails instead of a massive labyrinth built by the enemy. It's built up to look like an epic superstructure, but you barely explore any of it. The entrance showing up right in the center of town instead of in a new area to explore also feels way too convenient (and suggests their budget was running low and couldn't make the tower too detailed...).

Ending E's also a bit of a kick in the teeth; the pods are happy to delete all evidence of YorHa, but then why do they care about keeping the Androids alive up to that point? Why doesn't 9S's pod shoot him when he discovers the truth? Is it because he seemingly can't be bothered to tell anyone that humanity's gone? That itself is already kinda weird (though Jackass manages to figure it out herself, so the secret's out regardless). The worst part is despite the game being about whether or not preserving humanity is a worthy or even meaningful goal, Ending E straight up can't be experienced without an internet connection. In future years, when the console servers are gone, nobody will be able to fully experience ending E and the choir segment that's added to the ending, because they did not program a case for the extra ships to appear. If you play offline in the future when the server for the game's gone, you're screwed, unless you're playing the PC version where someone has discovered there's a very simple hex edit you can do in memory to make the game think you're playing online and trigger the intended sequence: https://twitter.com/manfightdragon/stat ... 89?lang=en

The credits sequence can technically be beaten offline, but the gigantic hitboxes combined with your pathetic ship damage means that when the Square Enix logo appears it goes from being a modest little shmup sequence to Futari Ultra levels of brutality and frustration, where there's so many orange bullets your shots fail to reach the enemies. And the only way to not get stuck with your peashooter, which has been adequately balanced up till now, is to have an internet connection tied to your account. On PS4 or Switch, that may not be an option in the future, so those players either see Ending E through masochistic levels of effort and thus miss out on the choir version of the ending song, or miss the ending entirely?

It's quite offensive; plenty of other games (FromSoft's for instance) have optional online elements that don't meaningfully cause you to miss out on the full single player experience without an internet enabled connection, and the body recovery thing isn't particularly interesting to the extent you feel like you miss out in Nier Automata. The main thing you lose without playing online is Ending E, and that's a big hit considering it's intended as the plot's big payoff.

Also, sorry credits sequence, I do think games are silly little things sometimes, and that's okay, we need games that are silly little things. It's still nice to program in such a way that people in the future don't have to rely on fanpatches or hacks to experience them all.

The story builds up to a huge pile of conspiracies, but there's ultimately no real payoff involved, and none of the player characters are allowed to exercise any meaningful control or agency with respect to the events happening. They're just kind of pulled along by the plot rather than being actively involved in any meaningful decisions. Nobody really ends up happy except maybe the machines in Ending D. None of the protagonists speak after the credits, all we get is dialogue from the pods, so all we get is the hint of a happy ending in Ending E. Maybe.

Contrast this with Bayonetta where, while the narrative is deliberately obfuscated and confusing on your first playthrough on your first run as you try to figure out what's going on, it results in a cohesive plot where everything does make sense (and largely consists of Jeanne being the main driver behind most of the plot's events, everything from Bayonetta's rise to power from an outcast to being sealed away to keep her from Balder, and so on).

Platinum Games are generally very fun in terms of combat, and the combat here is certainly fun when you're not stuck as 9S, but significantly weaker when you are. You're stuck playing as him for far too long for my tastes, and that deters me from additional playthroughs. There's also a couple enemies that are very lame to fight, namely the multisegmented worm enemies with a glowing yellow spot to hit. They're aggravating to target and basically demand the use of long range attacks. The ones you're forced to kill in Pascal's village as A2 are particularly maddening as there's no easy way to sit to target them due to the forced perspective angles. Another player's expressed the same problems with targeting these worm enemies here and I frankly found it way, way more irritating than anything remotely janky I encountered in Bayonetta, one of Platinum's weakest designed sections ever honestly: https://lparchive.org/NieR-Automata/Update%20123/

The good bits are quite good, but there are way too many bad or aggravating bits to rate it highly. A 7/10 experience if you're good at action games, but probably worse if you're not. I've heard some people express frustration that you can't save at all during the opening sequence so if you die to the boss at the end you have to redo it (discovering you can mash dodge freely makes it a lot easier during the buzzsaws, there's no penalty for dodging too many times in a row without a break).

[Sima Tuna]

Damn, you make it sound so much worse than what I'd heard. I own the Switch version but haven't played it yet. Kinda been saving the game for a rainy day. I'm pretty picky about my action games, and I especially dislike certain elements of Kamiya's typical game design. I guess I'll have to see what I think of Automata. I couldn't get into Wonderful 101 and most other Kamiya games post-Bayo 1 have left me cold. I'm willing to give Vanquish another chance on the assumption I was playing it wrong, but that's partially because I know Vanquish doesn't suffer Kamiya Syndrome on NG vs NG+ game design. AFAIK, Vanquish is built for NG standard play, not NG+ with everything unlocked, like the typical Kamiya game.

Are Kamiya action games fun if you are playing a fully-unlocked save file with all your special moves? Yes, usually. But the first 20 or so hours can be a real pile of shit until you reach that point. Somebody needs to slap Platinum's hands the next time they try to put essential special moves behind a currency wall.

It's been my experience with game devs that those who like to "call back" to older game genres frequently lack a true understanding of what makes the arcade experience compelling. Which is why you end up with those fucking boring scrolling sections in Moonrider, the piss-easy shooting gallery from Bayo 1 (where the dominant strategy is to hold a single point on the screen with your cursor until EVERY enemy aligns for a headshot) or pointless bullet patterns in Nier Gestalt (which you can just dodge or block.)

[Sumez]

Nier Automata is definitely a Nier sequel first and foremost, and a Platinum game as a very distant second.
But it also doesn't really manage to make nearly the same impact as the original. Often I felt like it'd do "strange" things just because that game did it, but with less specific purpose for the sequel.

It's a good game I guess, but as a Nier fan I was pretty let down by it.

[vol.2]

Been hitting my old Qbert segmented LCD game a bit lately. Qbert was my favorite of the early proto puzzle games as a kid, so this weird little thing has brought me a lot of joy over the years.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Damn, you make it sound so much worse than what I'd heard.

It's not that bad. The combat is fun enough when you're one of the characters with a more fleshed out moveset, but it's definitely an action RPG with a heavy emphasis on RPG. Its narrative is heavily emphasized at the cost of some action elements, but the DLC that comes included with the Switch version includes several fun arenas to tackle that are pure combat. Also, the music and aesthetics are top notch, I love the soundtrack. I don't regret the experience, I just don't think it was top tier either.

AFAIK, Vanquish is built for NG standard play, not NG+ with everything unlocked, like the typical Kamiya game.

There's actually no NG+ in Vanquish, just a super hard unlockable difficulty mode and some fun challenge modes. And the super hard mode doesn't allow weapon upgrades, teaching you that the base weapons are in fact quite usable and good without upgrades. The only stuff to unlock is the DLC weapons which are balanced to be a fun addition without being gamebreakers (the pistol's quite good though and may well obsolete the sniper rifle).

Are Kamiya action games fun if you are playing a fully-unlocked save file with all your special moves? Yes, usually. But the first 20 or so hours can be a real pile of shit until you reach that point.

Nier Automata fortunately eliminates this; your moveset is dictated largely by weapon availability and upgrades, and you can basically get full moveset freedom within a couple of hours of playing, fairly early on. Different weapons of the same type only really vary in their more subtle attack properties like slight speed boost or higher critical hit rate, whereas in Bayo 1 some of the coolest weapons in the game require multiple playthroughs. One weapon with a totally unique moveset, the gunchucks, needs the equivalent of 5 and a half playthroughs to unlock!

Spoiler

It's only later in Nier Automata when you switch characters that you feel like it's a step back and lose this freedom, as 9S has a less engaging melee moveset.

the piss-easy shooting gallery from Bayo 1

Fortunately, at high level play you can completely ignore this if you want without issue. Or just grab a Moon Pearl, the only item relevant for Pure Platinum playthroughs which helps slightly, and you're set. It's not too bad though to hit the 70+ threshold for an autorevive item though, and it's short enough it's really not too bad I think.

But it also doesn't really manage to make nearly the same impact as the original. Often I felt like it'd do "strange" things just because that game did it, but with less specific purpose for the sequel.

I've actually heard that Nier's plot is better than Automata as characters actually have more of an impact in their narrative and make meaningful decisions rather than the second half of the game having the antagonists being miserably dragged along against their will by the antagonists mainly out of circumstance, with the protagonists making no meaningful, consequential decisions with respect to the plot. It makes me curious to play it, although perhaps not overly enthusiastic.

[guigui]

I played Automata entirely, which is already a good point for the game given how few time I have to play.

Honestly agree on shmup and hacking minigames being flaws, but people : music, aesthetics, 2B riding a horse are enough to justify clearing the game.

Also maybe should have played Nier before, because story is really obscure in this sequel. I almost considered buying a lore book ; maybe after playing Nier ?

[Marc]

Started the Resi 4 Remake. Damn it's good. Only just finished the first chapter, but if it keeps up this level of quality throughout (always a big if with Resi games IMO), thus will end ip being top three/five for sure.

[Lemnear]

on specialized forums if you criticize a Sony game (like TLOU2) they all growl at you and tell you that you don't understand shit... but here..i read VANQUISH and NIER AUTOMATA *-*

<3

[Arino]

I always play some DOOM https://youtu.be/kuyxl9bz8Lo?si=gW5hukIF3pUoyWrO

[Lander]

I found Automata lost its luster in my mental game catalogue over time, whereas the original adventure of Pants On Head Dad - despite being a total technical mess by comparison - holds strong.
Didn't bother with the remake, since I see no way that mamoru imo-chan desu could outdo the original performance.

Tomato is a fine game in its own right, and impressed me at release, but falls into the same trap as most unique one-offs that end up getting a surprise sequel: Same world, some subset of the characters you remember, but sub-par payoff for the qualities that made the first game worth playing.
Off the top of my head, The World Ends With You 2 and Dragon's Dogma 2 are comparable cases; fine games that make significant iterations to how the game is played, but completely whiff a critical aspect of their theming, thus falling short of being a truly great sequel.

It also marks the point where Platinum really started fucking with RPG mechanics, which didn't bode well in the long-term.

Also maybe should have played Nier before, because story is really obscure in this sequel. I almost considered buying a lore book ; maybe after playing Nier ?

You didn't miss too much; Automata is largely concerned with its own story and themes, with a few callbacks here and there to acknowledge the original. They're largely self-contained works insofar as the important stuff goes.

There is a lore rabbit hole to fall down, but it's a wider-scope thing that stretches all the way back through the Drakengard games on PS2 / PS3. Pretty interesting, but it suffers from the we're never tying this shit up lol problem - Automata's contribution on that front was about two or three dialogue boxes, none of them particularly consequential.

[Sima Tuna]

The final ending of the original Nier was a gaming moment that shall not be topped. Nothing Automata could do or say will ever match the gameplay + story integration. I still remember that moment. I had spoiled the game for myself ( it was an obscure title and I'd have only known it existed because of let's plays) but still wasn't expecting how hard it hits. Other games have done similar things, but I'd argue not so well. We can all laugh off consequence in gaming because, after all, it's just a game. Nothing that happens in a game matters. But because of the kind of game the first Nier is, it manages to come up with a consequence that does matter. Despite its mediocre shmup boss patterns, Nier is a grindy jarpig. You spend a lot of time building up resources and unlocking things. The game always seem to have more content just around the corner. Some of which is nearly impossible to complete (damn weapon collection percentage.)

Then the final ending comes along... WHAM. Make your choice, motherfucker.

I made my choice. Because of the choice I made, I can't replay Nier. I probably won't replay it ever again. But I'll never forget how the OG Nier made me feel.

[guigui]

Thanks for the Nier's lore precision Lander. I was kind of hoping to understand more things by playing Replicant, because honestly Automata does not tell you many things about protagonists. I was expecting some enlightenment at the end, but got nothing.

The final ending of the original Nier was a gaming moment that shall not be topped. Nothing Automata could do or say will ever match the gameplay + story integration. I still remember that moment. I had spoiled the game for myself ( it was an obscure title and I'd have only known it existed because of let's plays) but still wasn't expecting how hard it hits. Other games have done similar things, but I'd argue not so well. We can all laugh off consequence in gaming because, after all, it's just a game. Nothing that happens in a game matters. But because of the kind of game the first Nier is, it manages to come up with a consequence that does matter. Despite its mediocre shmup boss patterns, Nier is a grindy jarpig. You spend a lot of time building up resources and unlocking things. The game always seem to have more content just around the corner. Some of which is nearly impossible to complete (damn weapon collection percentage.)

Then the final ending comes along... WHAM. Make your choice, motherfucker.

I made my choice. Because of the choice I made, I can't replay Nier. I probably won't replay it ever again. But I'll never forget how the OG Nier made me feel.

Isn't there confusion here ? Iirc, at the end of Automata you're asked

Spoiler

if you want to sacrifice your save data to get the real ending. Is it the same thing in Replicant ?

[Sima Tuna]

Thanks for the Nier's lore precision Lander. I was kind of hoping to understand more things by playing Replicant, because honestly Automata does not tell you many things about protagonists. I was expecting some enlightenment at the end, but got nothing.

The final ending of the original Nier was a gaming moment that shall not be topped. Nothing Automata could do or say will ever match the gameplay + story integration. I still remember that moment. I had spoiled the game for myself ( it was an obscure title and I'd have only known it existed because of let's plays) but still wasn't expecting how hard it hits. Other games have done similar things, but I'd argue not so well. We can all laugh off consequence in gaming because, after all, it's just a game. Nothing that happens in a game matters. But because of the kind of game the first Nier is, it manages to come up with a consequence that does matter. Despite its mediocre shmup boss patterns, Nier is a grindy jarpig. You spend a lot of time building up resources and unlocking things. The game always seem to have more content just around the corner. Some of which is nearly impossible to complete (damn weapon collection percentage.)

Then the final ending comes along... WHAM. Make your choice, motherfucker.

I made my choice. Because of the choice I made, I can't replay Nier. I probably won't replay it ever again. But I'll never forget how the OG Nier made me feel.

Isn't there confusion here ? Iirc, at the end of Automata you're asked

Spoiler

if you want to sacrifice your save data to get the real ending. Is it the same thing in Replicant ?

Spoiler

In the original release of Nier on xbox 360, the "delete save data" ending was the FINAL ending. Apparently the remade version of Gestalt added some super-special ending where you could get your save data back, which is stupid. The point is your character DIES and all the progress is gone. You aren't supposed to get your progress back, ever. You're done, RIP. If you choose death then all your progress goes to save data heaven.

I don't know if Automata tries to do the same thing again, but Nier (OG) did it first and I like the father-daughter story of OG Nier better.

[Sumez]

I found Automata lost its luster in my mental game catalogue over time, whereas the original adventure of Pants On Head Dad - despite being a total technical mess by comparison - holds strong.
Didn't bother with the remake, since I see no way that mamoru imo-chan desu could outdo the original performance.

Absolutely nothing could ever top daddy nier!

[guigui]

Spoiler

In the original release of Nier on xbox 360, the "delete save data" ending was the FINAL ending. Apparently the remade version of Gestalt added some super-special ending where you could get your save data back, which is stupid. The point is your character DIES and all the progress is gone. You aren't supposed to get your progress back, ever. You're done, RIP. If you choose death then all your progress goes to save data heaven.

I don't know if Automata tries to do the same thing again, but Nier (OG) did it first and I like the father-daughter story of OG Nier better.

End of spoiler discussion, sorry all :

Spoiler

It turns out Automata does the same thing too : last ending asks if you want to sacrifice your save data to help other players get the last ending.

Kind of disappointed that Nier OG does that too.

[Lander]

Case in point for my surprise sequel theorem: Should the disappointment not be the other way around?

That's the kicker; the most impactful will likely be whichever you experience first. Easier for creators to retread and give a new audience a similar experience than it is to derive something new yet still comparable.

Though I suppose that's a more general property of sequels. Touches on the old Abe Simpson it'll happen to you that's been knocking around my head lately; ruminating on whether there's a statue of limitations where it was better in the old days goes from a function of dismissable nostalgia, to a function of discoverability within a medium that puts high value on the new.

Though on the plus side, Automata brings way more to the table than most games that end up disappointing their grognard contingent

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Though on the plus side, Automata brings way more to the table than most games that end up disappointing their grognard contingent

That's my opinion of it too. I'm not onboard with how the plot and characters develop in the last act of the game (or rather don't), but the aesthetics, music and presentation are all top notch, and the combat when you're playing as 2B is great.

Spoiler

If the plot had a better payoff, had developed the characters and showed them attempting to communicate and resolve things better rather than obviously pushing for a senseless fight because it's *tragic* and ~drama~ I would've enjoyed it a lot more and been able to stomach the weaker shmup and 9S combat segments better. The shmup segments are far from outrageously bad and there are plenty worse games with shmup minigames out there, and 9S's on foot combat is tolerable, if bland by comparison to 2B and A2. It's just not what I'd call an exceptional game, nor an exceptional story. I'd mostly want to replay it for the combat as 2B and A2, and for the aesthetic and music experience. But there's a hell of a lot of time you spend in the shmup segments and as 9S so that's a strong disincentive to do so...

Again, I'd have found the ending E more moving if I didn't realize they designed it to be nigh-unplayable without internet, meaning once the game servers are gone, you're rather screwed. It's a weird lack of care and consideration, blegh.

From clips I've seen of Nier, its characters are far, far better fleshed out to create a cohesive plot with a satisfying ending, and that's even without the bonus ending added in the Nier: Replicant rerelease.

@Sima Tuna / @guigui

Spoiler

With respect to the deletion of your save file, the big difference is Ending E in Automata doesn't require you to delete your save file. You're just going to feel bad if you don't, because basically you're using other people's saves without sacrificing your own, but you can still see the ending in full without having to delete your save file. I suspect that what happens is the servers never actually delete any data that's sent, because bad players taking hits would lose a LOT of save files, so any players adding their names to the pool of save files always remain in the system no matter how many times they're used.

Nier, on the other hand, does not allow you to see the ending without deleting your save file, which then gets weird with Nier: Replicant rerelease where things happen next time you play a new game.

[MJR]

Bought myself a japanese version of Castlevania: Symphony of the night, because reasons.

Last time I played this as a pirated copy of the english version when it came out. Was it 1997?

Anyway, I'm loving this. And there's a manga and soundtrack CD too!!

[ExitPlanetDust]

Bought myself a japanese version of Castlevania: Symphony of the night, because reasons.

Last time I played this as a pirated copy of the english version when it came out. Was it 1997?

Anyway, I'm loving this. And there's a manga and soundtrack CD too!!

I had that Nocturne in the Moonlight import years ago. It’s such a beautiful set with the mini art book and music CD. The cover was (of course) far superior as well. I never had any nostalgia for the horrible US dub. The excellent Japanese cast is how I will always remember the game.

[BrianC]

Though on the plus side, Automata brings way more to the table than most games that end up disappointing their grognard contingent

That's my opinion of it too. I'm not onboard with how the plot and characters develop in the last act of the game (or rather don't), but the aesthetics, music and presentation are all top notch, and the combat when you're playing as 2B is great.

Spoiler

If the plot had a better payoff, had developed the characters and showed them attempting to communicate and resolve things better rather than obviously pushing for a senseless fight because it's *tragic* and ~drama~ I would've enjoyed it a lot more and been able to stomach the weaker shmup and 9S combat segments better. The shmup segments are far from outrageously bad and there are plenty worse games with shmup minigames out there, and 9S's on foot combat is tolerable, if bland by comparison to 2B and A2. It's just not what I'd call an exceptional game, nor an exceptional story. I'd mostly want to replay it for the combat as 2B and A2, and for the aesthetic and music experience. But there's a hell of a lot of time you spend in the shmup segments and as 9S so that's a strong disincentive to do so...

Again, I'd have found the ending E more moving if I didn't realize they designed it to be nigh-unplayable without internet, meaning once the game servers are gone, you're rather screwed. It's a weird lack of care and consideration, blegh.

From clips I've seen of Nier, its characters are far, far better fleshed out to create a cohesive plot with a satisfying ending, and that's even without the bonus ending added in the Nier: Replicant rerelease.

@Sima Tuna / @guigui

Spoiler

With respect to the deletion of your save file, the big difference is Ending E in Automata doesn't require you to delete your save file. You're just going to feel bad if you don't, because basically you're using other people's saves without sacrificing your own, but you can still see the ending in full without having to delete your save file. I suspect that what happens is the servers never actually delete any data that's sent, because bad players taking hits would lose a LOT of save files, so any players adding their names to the pool of save files always remain in the system no matter how many times they're used.

Nier, on the other hand, does not allow you to see the ending without deleting your save file, which then gets weird with Nier: Replicant rerelease where things happen next time you play a new game.

Spoiler

Does the game make you choose between 2B living or dying? If so, it was a Shakespeare reference after all?

[vol.2]

GOG put a bunch more SNK releases on their site, so I picked up Magician Lord and am having fun with it. Took me awhile to get to it because I had to do a bunch of Linux voodoo in the WSL in order to decompress the game files in order to play it in FBNeo. The built-in emulation blows

Anyways its nostalgic as hell for me. Also I bought Twinkle Star Sprites which I never played before and I absolutely love, although I guess that one could be considered a Shmup? Puzzle Shmup?

[To Far Away Times]

Another Crab's Treasure.

Lovely presentation, great writing, and lots of novelty. A game that is impossible not to root for.

Gameplay-wise this one's a souls like (shoals-like?), but it seems to derive most of its difficulty from enemies dealing way too much damage, instant kill attacks, and poor telegraphing. I'm playing through it just cause the presentation is so neat, but this one doesn't touch the meticulous tuning and fairness of FROM's games or Nioh on the game play side of it.

[To Far Away Times]

I finished Another Crab's Treasure today. Some thoughts:

I'm a bit conflicted on this one. On one hand, I had a good time playing it. And it's an easy game to root for with so much personality and creativity, along with unexpectedly good writing. This is the kind of game that you love to see succeed. The shell mechanic is such a brilliant choice, not only tying in with the crab theming of the game, but also in how you approach defense and magic and really gives this game it's own identity and play style. One interesting quirk is how much platforming is in this. Almost reminds me of an N64 era platformer at times (but without too much penalty for missing a jump like you'd expect in a Souls style game). There's also quite a bit cribbed from newer Zelda games. A very familiar looking stamina meter, Z-Targeting with the black bars, a basic form of weapon fusing, along with some more surprises. There's also quite a bit of social and environmental commentary in this one. The game certainly goes places in it's second half, I won't elaborate for sake of spoilers, but if you know, you know.

If I could just take the good parts, this would easily be the best game I've played this year. But, this is a very uneven game. At least on the Xbox version, the game has a bad input reader. You'll often not get a button press that you think you should have got because an animation was ending. But it gets worse, at least a dozen times in my play through, the game would just straight up ignore all buttons except for the joystick and the only way to fix it was to die. I also got pushed through the floor a few times. Lots of instant kill bullshit from bosses in the front half of the game. The game weirdly gets easier in the second half. There's also a memory leak every few hours that causes the sound to cut out and performance to absolutely tank. A game in this state wouldn't pass certification on older consoles, but today it's like "fuck it, just ship it out and we'll fix it later." Also, the ending gives you plenty to chew on, but you won't feel good about it. Seems needlessly bleak coming from a novelty crab game.

As is, I'd compare it to a personal favorite like Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines. An overly ambitious game with some rarely seen strengths, along with some technical snafus and weird problems most games are able to avoid. But sometimes games like that end up being the most memorable.

[Sumez]

Well you definitely sold me on it!
Too much to play

[Sumez]

Huge Shadow Man post approaching fast!

Gotta thank m.sniffles.esq for turning me on to Shadow Man. What a beautiful little gem it is. As a diamond in the rough, it could hardly be any more rough. The controls have annoying quirks, the combat is complete trash, and despite having some really cool thematic ideas and amazing concept art, the actual game looks a bit like poo.

But man, the level design is so freaking engaging!
The game is not afraid to send you on tons of fools errands only for you to end up with no idea where to go, or what to do, running around exploring your options until you figure something out. For every step forward, you'll run into new branching paths, and for every path you explore, new branches show up, making it incredibly hard to even keep track of what options you have explored, and where you are headed. Every stage will open shortcuts and wrap around on itself like a really solid Souls map, feeling like a complete mystery until you're done surveying every corner. It would have been so easy to succumb to giving the game an in-game map or a sort of objective marker, to avoid people bouncing off of it, and it would have made the game much worse. I'm so happy they didn't.
The rest of the game is really trashy, so it feels almost like it's this great on accident, but I think someone involved in the game were really talented, and it completely eclipses everything else.

I was surprised to learn that the remaster has added in three whole new (and quite massive) areas which were cut from the original releases. Especially given those three, the "experimentation rooms" especially, are some of the coolest areas in the game. So I'm glad I went with that version of the game, instead of trying out the PS1 version I've had lying around for years.

Did you ever play Soul Reaver?

As in Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver? Yeah, I have it. Love the look, character design, etc. But the game itself is way too "Eidos" for me (even though I know they didn't develop it). Boxes upon boxes upon boxes. I had a warehouse job with less boxes. Enemies that respawn before you're out of the room. Enemies that respawn before you're out of the room with boxes... Oy vey...

I mean, I see the similarities. And it's been a loooong time since I played Kain (whereas I played Shadowman last night). But I feel that SM is way more Zelda than Eidos. Alternating between two worlds, dual wielding weapons, insanely complex map, obstacles that become doorways with new abilities, etc

In the context quoted here, I brought up Soul Reaver as a suggestion for a "Zelda on Dreamcast". But playing Shadow Man, I was surprised by how much it shares with that game!
It doesn't have much in the way of puzzle rooms as such, and no block puzzles at all (all the blocks in the game, except one, are "push it one tile to open a one-way passage"), but honestly I think that makes it less Zelda-like.

It shares a lot of the same tone and mood as Soul Reaver. Although while that game pulls it off extremely well, Shadow Man unfortunately really stumbles over its clumsy exposition scenes. The areas are still really cool however, and feature that same mixture of crude steampunk'ish technology with a demonic decaying world. Hell, they even share a protagonist with the ability to cross over between the worlds of the living and the dead (even if they don't share the same space in Shadow Man).
Shadow Man also has moments of over-the-top dramatic dialogue describing the places he explores which at times feels like they could have been spoken by Raziel, and are amusingly juxtaposed against his much more goofy real-world counterpart you'll see in most of the cutscenes (for all I know, that might be a concept lifted directly from the comics).

And of course, both games are essentially "3D metroidvanias", which is a weird distinction to make given probably a majority of 3D games are designed around the most basic principles of the metroidvania genre (every area is connected, and you can move back and forth, accessing new areas when you get new skills), but I think these are some of the rare examples of games that really tap into the potential of that genre the best - Shadow Man moreso, with an interconnected stage design that IMO rivals the likes of both Dark Souls 1 and King's Field 2.

A couple years later, they did the Shadow Man remaster and since it was the same price as the digital, and my both of my Switches' sd cards are jam-packed, I gave them more business. Again, it took around a year. But it arrived, I grabbed it and my Switch excited to play on my morning commute. However, when I got on the bus, I was dismayed to discover that--even though I had the game cart--a 5gb download was required to actually play, otherwise known as 'the game'. I waited a year to receive a digital key in a plastic case...

Yeah, I think I'm done with Limited Run...

This is exactly what I'm questioning myself. I got a copy of their Shadowman as well, but I haven't gotten around to playing it. So if I get any sort of quality time with a Switch within the next week, I'm gonna cut its internet connection and test for myself.

So here's my promised update on this from another thread.
I actually started playing Shadow Man on the train myself, and didn't get the patch. I also tend to just put my Switch into sleep mode, so even when downloaded, I didn't restart the game to install the patch until I was eventually forced to do so due to the game crashing.
I managed to play nearly six hours of the game without any patch, so the statement above simply isn't true. It's not a "digital key", it's a perfectly playable version of the game.

BUT

As I'd find out later, the massive 5GB update includes two major patches which add a lot to the game! Some stage layouts were changed, and a new weapon and several new enemies get added.
I actually thought those show up at some point in the game after getting a certain number of souls or something, but apparently they showed up after the patch installed. I actually had to go back to an area I'd already completed to pick up the new weapon.
The patch also adds in the crude map included in the manual of the original release, into the set of cool in-game hint files that you find pretty early on. I think that map demystifies the game a bit too much since it actually tells you where to find all the upgrades, but it's pretty cool.
Another addition is a bunch of hints in the area warp menu, that tell you what new things you have access to in the various areas given the abilities you currently have, helping you with where to go when you get stuck. I think that's a bit too much help for the player, but fortunately you can turn them off.

There's a bunch of other major changes to the game, including a brand new hard mode, which actually sounds to me like it improves the game a lot, but since I was already 6 hours into my playthrough (and nearly done with it when I found out about that addition) I wasn't ready to try it out.

I think it's really regrettable that they weren't able to include this patch in the LRG release, because it's definitely the ultimate version of this game. But the game is absolutely not "unplayable" without it, not even remotely.
Here are two sets of patch notes with everything added after the physical release:
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app ... 0033778361
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app ... 2570056387

[m.sniffles.esq]

But the game is absolutely not "unplayable" without it, not even remotely.

Fair enough
But, it took over a year for the game to arrive after release. I don't have the info to when I actually got the game vs when the patches were released, but if it was patched less than a year after release, that particular ball is still in LRG's court