Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[Lander]

Sometimes I wonder if the walkpath approach is worth reconsidering, given that the Bethesda hill climbing zig-zag still works in a surprising amount of games.

Some 3D games kind of sort of do it (ex. not being able to combo off a ledge in DMC or Souls), but I'm fairly sure that's an inverted version which analyses terrain around the character instead of constraining them to a 'legal move area' that can never be wrong.

I guess Quake is actually a good halfway example - it makes you 'seal' your level so the build tool can generate an interior hull (skies and other types of void are just magic walls that look like they lead out of the map) and has the pleasant consequence of creating proper inescapable 1:1 collision.

Shitty collision detection is par for the course in a lot of Konami's mid-to-late 80s PCBs, and this game's preposterously massive enemy projectille / enemy falling scenery hitboxes are no exception. But a bug where enemy projectiles hijack your own attack's hitbox is genuinely pretty novel. I'd love to see similar (unintended) examples, if anyone has them.

The archives are a bit dry of proper footage, but I did stumble across this dusty old VHS labeled Netherrealm FMV Fighting Game Prototype: Press Eyes Only (1992)

Characters still move on a 2D plane, and collision is obviously broken, but in terms of presentation they were clearly thinking ahead all the way to MK9 and beyond.

Toward the end, you can even see a very early version of the assist mechanic that appears in their newer games!

[BIL]

The archives are a bit dry of proper footage, but I did stumble across this dusty old VHS labeled Netherrealm FMV Fighting Game Prototype: Press Eyes Only (1992)

Characters still move on a 2D plane, and collision is obviously broken, but in terms of presentation they were clearly thinking ahead all the way to MK9 and beyond.

Toward the end, you can even see a very early version of the assist mechanic that appears in their newer games!

Meanwhile, foreseeing just such an outrage, HAL's cancelled Ghost Rider sidescroller restores the principle Konami's game so shamelessly forsook!

[Lander]

A shining example of NO U mechanic! Nice art too, very Viewtiful Joe.

Breaking Kayfabe

The fuck did I just marathon Human Instrumentality!? Unacceptable! *bra-ka-ka-kaboom*

Shades of Spec Ops: The Line introspection from behind the theater mask!
Is this novelty time-travel episode placed roughly at the series midpoint for your mindless entertainment, or is it intentionally tuning you out just far enough to start wondering about the patterns of the medium, and whether the director had your monkey viewer brain figured out several productions ago and is playing you for a fool to illustrate the point.

Truly life-changing. It seems Studio Trigger can't sneeze without accidentally saving anime again.
- Fictive review piece

Or at least, without incisively taking the piss out of it piece-by-by piece. You can never tell for sure with these punky subversive creator types

Somewhat related - in line with the recent-ish(?) anime trend of Heh. You thought you won, but you were actually dead five minutes ago! Twice! - I'd like to see a studio try and mechanize that.

Fight a boss under regular mechanics, and periodically shift to an Ace Attorney interface to rewind, review the evidence (resp. moves done, setups engineered, inventory contents,) and retroactively litigate the battle in your favor.

Well your honour, during -this- dive roll 2:35 through the fight, I surreptitiously attached a timed mine to my opponent!
Which is set to blow for... Right Now! (╬`∇´)

*tsk tsk* the defense has failed to notice the grab tech that occurs 7 seconds later, during which the mine is returned (˘⌣˘ )

(°ロ°) *kapoww*

[cfx]

KAGE/Shaodow of the Ninja now has a release date, August 29. This is reflected on the Japanese website: https://www.natsumeatari.co.jp/kage/

According to Gematsu, the digital versions everywhere should be the same date. It's unclear when ININ's physical versions will come. They are only doing Swtich and PS5 physical. In Japan and Asia there will be physical for those and PS4 as well. Gematsu says that Sega is publishing the physical releases in Japan and Asia. Sega Asia's website now has an English version of the above website here: https://asia.sega.com/kage-shadowoftheninja/en/

I am so ready for SUPER REALISTIC NINJA ACTION!

[Sima Tuna]

Physical edition would be preferred for these Tengo Project games. If I'm going to pay new release price, I'd rather have a physical product.

[cfx]

I always buy physical if it exists, unless the only physical version is from Limited Run Games, who I refuse to support in any way. For some PS4 games now only digital exists, and in those cases I wait for a sale because I see no reason to pay full price in that case. That's why I don't yet own Yohane The Parhelion, since it's physical on PS5 and Switch only. I'll definitely get it, but I'm not paying full price for what I consider an inferior version of the product.

[ExitPlanetDust]

Oh, I didn’t know that Asia/Japan was getting a PS4 disc. I might import that instead of getting the ININ PS5 version.

Is Sony offering some kind of discount incentive to publish PS5 only? I’ve noticed other releases skipping PS4 as well, which doesn’t make sense considering backwards compatibility and how much larger the PS4 install base is.

[Sumez]

I was wondering the same thing. Publishing a game that's guaranteed to run identically on both ps4 and ps5 as strictly a "ps5 game" can only be a marketing decision of some sort - and for a game like this I see no one but Sony benefiting from that.
In fact when the ps4 release exists, the ps5 one is completely superfluous.

[cfx]

Is Sony offering some kind of discount incentive to publish PS5 only? I’ve noticed other releases skipping PS4 as well, which doesn’t make sense considering backwards compatibility and how much larger the PS4 install base is.

I've been wondering exactly this, or if Sony has raised the minimum quantities you can order for PS4 to where it's not feasible for games that aen't going to be huge sellers like this. In Japan while it hasn't been too common, it's been going on for a year or so, with Inti Creates Grim Guardians (Gal Guardians) not having a PS4 physical version in Japan, and most everything since from Inti being the same, with the Bloodstained Curse of the Moon double pack being the only exception.

It's far more common in the west, where even the limited game companies like SLG are skipping PS4 for a number of releases.

Bamco just announced a Tesnsuru RPG that looks sort of like the older Tales of games, and it too does not have a physical PS4 version: https://ten-sura-t.bn-ent.net/products/

From Sony's viewpoint, I think backwards compatibility has been a liability as much as a selling point for PS5. For someone like me that doesn't play so-called AAA games at all, I have zero reason to buy a PS5, haven't done so, and have no plan to ever do so. (I'm old and will just stop buying new games when there are no more for PS4, not something most will do of course.) Any previous generation, long before now if I still wanted to buy new games, whether they actually needed that hardware to run or not, it would be the only way to play those games. With backwards compatibility, those games are still being made as PS4 versions since they work on the PS5. It's great for me; not so great for Sony in terms of getting everyone to move to their current hardware.

[ExitPlanetDust]

Hmm a PS4 version is prohibitive to selling peripherals too, because a PS5 version would require that users buy an additional DualSense for co-op.

[Steven]

M2's tiny ass still publishes physical PS4 games, so there is no reason that Scamco can't do it other than greed and/or incompetence. Knowing Scamco, it's probably mostly the latter.

[Augemitbutter]

i wonder if this game will be altered in any way between JP --> western release. Getting the PS4 version on disc is a good idea. Can always buy the PS5 version in the west. Oh and i so wish someone would tell Tengo that their games can have platinum trophies. There is no need to devalue your own game with short lists.

[cfx]

M2's tiny ass still publishes physical PS4 games, so there is no reason that Scamco can't do it other than greed and/or incompetence. Knowing Scamco, it's probably mostly the latter.

I love M2, but considering the first two Shottriggers releases don't have physical versions, they aren't blameless on this subject. In addtion, they don't have anything currently scheduled for release that I know of. We'll see if whatever is next still has a physical PS4 version. I hope it does of course, but at this point who knows.

i wonder if this game will be altered in any way between JP --> western release. Getting the PS4 version on disc is a good idea. Can always buy the PS5 version in the west. Oh and i so wish someone would tell Tengo that their games can have platinum trophies. There is no need to devalue your own game with short lists.

Nah. Never cared, never will and how I wish I could comnpletely opt out of the garbage. I'd rather Tengo spend their time making the best game possible, not creating some worthless carrot on a stick for people who can't play a game for the experience and fun of it and have to have some kind of artificial attaboy as a reward.

Achievements and trophies are one of the worst things to happen to gaming and devalue it by their existence because of how they change game design. The absence of them is one of the very few things I can praise Nintendo for.

[BryanM]

I'm always of two minds on most things, since having variety is great. But yeah, a tacked-on chore list that doesn't even give any in-game rewards, not even a neat hat or a gold fish trophy to set down in your room, is pretty lame imo.

There are people who really love chasing that gamer score, though. So god bless'em.

It's just a little sad when you see how it warps incentives: like $1 games that aren't really games and exist only to pad out achievements. That really....

Quantity has a quality of its own, it's nice to give people a nudge to try games they normally wouldn't try (I'm sure you know tons of robots who'll only play clones of games they've already played a million times), but still..

[Lander]

Devalued how ever did we manage before 7th gen?
Though knowing Sony, it probably costs a few bucks to put a platinum in your game.

I take a dim view on achievement systems in general; games are already capable of encoding the concept in a more integrated and rewarding way, so there needs to be some justifiable reason (i.e. not just OCD box-checking) for a platform-level integration to exist.

If memory serves, the Xbox version was originally planned to act like a loyalty card system, where gamerscore actually had some quantitative value that could be applied to rewards from the broader ecosystem - discount vouchers, tchotchkes for your profile, and so on. You know - actual extrinsic motivation.
Naturally though, ain't nothin' free, so that idea never made it to production. And you might argue that killing it was a shrewd business move, since it seeded a legion of enthusiastic skinner box actuators... Fo' free!

I'm reminded of it every so often while watching JayTB123. Fella's a proper Hard Core Player, bodies the hard action genre for a hobby (sometimes blindfolded,) but has the odd habit of digging up old versions of games he already has for the sake of clearing out the trophies. Fair enough if you're going to play it anyway I guess, but I can't relate.

[Sima Tuna]

M2's tiny ass still publishes physical PS4 games, so there is no reason that Scamco can't do it other than greed and/or incompetence. Knowing Scamco, it's probably mostly the latter.

Big companies are moving away from physical releases and I'm 99% sure it's because of Games-As-Live-Service wankery. They don't want games to be available before the 10 or so year window where the game releases and the console remains relevant. Once the console gets outdated, these corporations want to silently sunset all their games so they keep the option open to sell them again for full price in another decade or so... On another system that will become outdated and whose game library they can quietly pull away from you.

We've already seen developers straight-up removing games from the digital libraries of people who purchased them. It's already happened.

I do buy digital games when they are on sale, because the price difference is too great nowadays not to. But I don't have any illusions about it. I'm sure I'll resort to 100% piracy eventually. If only so I can preserve all my shit.

JayTB123

Jay is a god of Ninja Gaiden, if he's the one I'm thinking of. And that reminds me of another preservation issue with NG specifically. The original release of NG with the packs isn't available anywhere, so the parry system that was only available during that release of NG xbox functionally no longer exists outside of piracy. You have to download a specific save online and run it through emulation if you want to play with parries in 3d ninja gaiden.

[BryanM]

That the old Achievement Unlocked joke game has more substance than some actual games... just another data point in the "all good jokes are true and will become reality one day" theory..

The original Mario Maker locking down new levels being uploaded, and then being killed outright is just another of those things. The community wanting to 100% the game before it was officially dead was neat; I was highly amused the final level, Trimming The Herbs, was uploaded with a tool-assisted clear and required many frame perfect inputs.

That they have to intentionally hobble Mario Maker thanks to their profit incentive really does burn my irritation zone... It could be the "perfect" mario game, if they wanted to make it so. But they made it impossible to recreate the old games because they want to keep selling their ROMs on their eShop over and over again. Unless AI gets to the point where money no longer exists, they'll never make those ROMs obsolete even if they got all the way to Mario Maker 14.

The good 'ole Monster Hunter Frontier business model... just a little less ruthless.

(Human nature being what it is always makes me shake my head. I heard a guy say there's lots of great Maker games out there, but the moment they change the main guy's sprite from Mario to something else, the game's community instantly dies. Being dependent on a top-down god that's going to abandon your game one day if you want a game with a community is less than ideal...)

[Lander]

Jay is a god of Ninja Gaiden, if he's the one I'm thinking of. And that reminds me of another preservation issue with NG specifically. The original release of NG with the packs isn't available anywhere, so the parry system that was only available during that release of NG xbox functionally no longer exists outside of piracy. You have to download a specific save online and run it through emulation if you want to play with parries in 3d ninja gaiden.

Aye, that's the dude.

And yeah, the series is in a rough state preservation-wise, arguably moreso in the wake of Master Collection. They had every chance to deliver on the years-long sore spot that was the Hurricane Packs, but I still have to keep a dusty old crystal Xbox knocking around for them, on top of the 'bone for access to vanilla 2.

Doubly odd with the Intercept counter is that the scroll is still the files all the way up to the MC release of Sigma, but the move itself got dummied out when they made Black, so you can't even gameshark it.

It's kind of funny, looking back - they balanced that shit like a serious fighting game, and even had in-person Master Ninja Championship tournaments. Yet nowadays, even EVO is having to downsize to stay viable.

[Steven]

M2's tiny ass still publishes physical PS4 games, so there is no reason that Scamco can't do it other than greed and/or incompetence. Knowing Scamco, it's probably mostly the latter.

Big companies are moving away from physical releases and I'm 99% sure it's because of Games-As-Live-Service wankery. They don't want games to be available before the 10 or so year window where the game releases and the console remains relevant. Once the console gets outdated, these corporations want to silently sunset all their games so they keep the option open to sell them again for full price in another decade or so... On another system that will become outdated and whose game library they can quietly pull away from you.

We've already seen developers straight-up removing games from the digital libraries of people who purchased them. It's already happened.

I do buy digital games when they are on sale, because the price difference is too great nowadays not to. But I don't have any illusions about it. I'm sure I'll resort to 100% piracy eventually. If only so I can preserve all my shit.

You're only 99% certain? They all want to turn it into a subscription+streaming+live service thing. It will almost certainly happen on consoles within a few decades and wouldn't be surprised if even PC turns into this eventually. The worst part is that people will unfortunately actually like and defend this shit for some unholy reason. It's already happening with Gamepass or whatever.

[BIL]

God damn, finally! ACA Rastan Saga out today on PS4/NSW. Preposterously tight man in briefs action to come again!

[cfx]

The Japanese KAGE/Shadow of the Ninja physical is up for preorder now on Playasia, Amiami, and CDJapan and probably elsewhere.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

@BIL get your ass in here

this concludes our test of the notification service which I don't actually know if it pings based on quotes or just your name being mentioned in the post :V

edit: it's only when you use the quote="username" function, alas

[BIL]

Haha, nah just quotes it seems. I surmise a Shumps Rolodex of priorty @s may be in order! Much like the bookmark I made for the "Your Posts" link, which is now behind TWO clicks, post-update. In the heat of internet dance battle, racing the dread "last edited" stamp, seconds matter!

Let's test the boundaries of science itself by seeing if it works when spoilered, as the world waits for 1am Tokyo time aka RASTAN HOUR

Spoiler

[BareKnuckleRoo]

darn it, welp, we learned something new

[BIL]

A worthy endeavour! That's what I tell all the scurred noobs who go WAAA GAME 2 HARRD You gotta take them leaps and make them notes! Would Isaac Newton have invented gravity if that asshole hadn't hit him with an apple?

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I can confirm it works spoilered. I'm gonna try it with ONLY your username and not the user_id= # it adds when you link to a direct post.

[BIL]

Oho, that worked! :O Came up as a "Quoted by" ping. Endless possibilities :3

[copy-paster]

Gonna dedicate myself for CastleMAYnia this month. There will be some attempts that I wanna do tentatively:

Vs. CV1 No death no HW spam
beat Akumajou Densetsu on stream
Bloodlines Expert US Nodeath
Rondo 100% no death single sitting
Beat Dracula X Chronicles with TLB
Dracula XX nodeath (either good or bad end route)

Obviously not all of them will be played, depends on my mood. Rondo's a breeze in top route but bottom one is different story with all of st4/5's pit galore, but it's still possible to 100% it by taking the bottom first thus minimized the restart time.

[BIL]

Versus with no HW spam's pretty damn mean; I never used to fight Dracula mkII / HITO no NOROI with HW, until trying to 1LC it. ;w;7

Everything ports over 1:1 from the console versions though, so it's more a matter of adjusting to a 2HKO game. Amazing how well CV1 translated to that format!