PS2 dithering?

[Just Some Guy]

Hey guys. I was wondering if I could get some help please! I’m wondering if some PS2 games like No One Lives Forever, Rainbow Six 3, Splinter Cell, and others are supposed to have dithering? I’m not sure if my console or TV is an issue. Also some games like No One Lives Forever or Socom or Area 51 for example have a strange double pixel thing diagonally making the game look like you need glasses with essentially a double image. If I connect directly to my TV of use a Framemeister it makes no difference and my cables are good quality both RGB and component. Both cable types make no difference not even composite does. I realize most likely it’s an issue with my console or TV if someone can confirm these issues don’t occur on these games when displayed on modern TVs. I’d really appreciate any feedback. Tou guys are awesome

[ASDR]

I can confirm that many PS2 titles have dithering in their high res modes (480p/1080i), but I'm not sure if those you mentioned would be running at 16 bit / dithering :/

[tongshadow]

If you're running at 480p then yes, it's running at a lower bit depth and some games can have a crappy dithered appearance.

[Just Some Guy]

Thanks for replies guys. No it happens on these games at 480i. Again it’s certain games in my collection like 2% of games. Scarface is another example of a game that does it. Does maybe the model matter? SCPH 390001 is mine. Anyway please let me know and thank you

[Just Some Guy]

Oops, I meant SCPH 39001.

[ASDR]

I very much doubt your TV is converting PS2 games to a lower bit depth and then adding dithering. Obviously neither is your cable. Different PS2s are not having their framebuffer at a different bit depth. Especially if it's only on certain games. Not sure what kind of answer / solution you're even looking for here?

On the PS1 you there are patches to disable dithering and there are apparently differences in the patter between PS1/PSone/PS2 backwards compat. Not sure if something can be done / changed on the PS2, maybe there are some GSM options?

[kamiboy]

Way back in the day when the Gamecube had just come out I imported one from across the ocean and spent endless hours researching how I could get a CRT TV sold in Europe that could handle 480p content. At long last I found a Panasonic EDTV that would and imported it from Germany. Games looked absolutely spectacular on it in 480p, however, I noticed two things. One, in wind waker there was a strange visual artefact in the smoke effect which just looked wrong on said TV. And, also the one time I tried hooking a PS1 to it I regretted it immediately because it looked abysmal, horrendously, almost comically bad.

I had an intuitive understanding at the time that both issues were somewhat related and were likely caused by the digital processing in the TV. It likely had some sort of digital conversion of the analogue input signal that:

1: Could not handle 240p content
2: Was causing visual artefacts in certain scenes, most likely due to lack of colour depth in the digital processor

Might be the dithering you mention has a similar cause. On that Panny it happened when graphics had large patches of similar colours smoothly transitioning, like in the smoke effect in Wind Waker.

In the 2000's CRT TVs started getting digital processing, especially in Europe where TVs were eager to frame double the image to 100hz to reduce 50hz flicker. The digital processors also often involved motion prediction for generating the missing frames, a predecessor of the same motion smoothing technology still being used today on TVs. Phillips leaned especially heavily into this, and their TVs image quality as a result just looked garish to my eyes.

Outside of the artefact spoken of, which I only very rarely witnessed, I was quite happy with my Panny, 480p gaming on was glorious. I still had the TV around until 6-7 years ago, but to my more discerning eyes the image quality wasn't so hot anymore, I guess. Ignorance was bliss.

[ASDR]

I guess. Ignorance was bliss.

Yep, growing up I never noticed CRT geometry, 3CHIP SNES blur, unshielded cables or shitty PAL conversions

But yeah, 100Hz TVs near universally suck. I'm sure there's like that one golden model but largely they combined the downsides of LCDs and CRTs into one. Probably only recommended for watching old TV shows.