SOLVED RetroTINK 5X SMS1 instability shaky image (was PAL Sega Master System 1 NTSC conversion)

[jsteel]

With my PAL SMS1, I got screen tearing on my TV when I switched to 60hz so I swapped out the crystal for an NTSC one (53.693175MHz) and this fixed the tearing (I believe because it gives me much closer to 60.0Hz). Everything has been fine using the OSSC, but I'm having issues using this console with the RetroTINK 5X where the image will randomly drop down and to the right slightly, and very slightly shake. No settings I have tried changing have managed to fixed this (unless I need a specific combination). I wonder if this has anything to do with the NTSC crystal and it not being a true NTSC system.

I've read about converting the SMS to NTSC, but I'm not sure if this would help as it might just be to get NTSC composite video, which I'm not using. Could someone confirm? The conversion I'm talking about requires lifting pin 7 of the Sony CXA chip and tying to 5v (tried this step, no difference), and pin 6 of the Z80 to R10 (after lifting the resistor) but these instructions all seem to be related to the SMS2, and R10 on the SMS1 seems not to be connected to the same components as the SMS2. Either I'm on the right track and just need to clarify where to connect pin 6 of the Z80 on the SMS1, or this is only relevant for composite video and I instead need to be asking about how to get a more stable image from the RT5X.

Thanks for any suggestions.

[jsteel]

After further researching RT5X instability issues, it seemed the suggested settings to tweak were on the Video ADC section, so I went to work...

I didn't mention I'm using an RGB CSYNC SCART cable. With the LPF on strong, I can barely see any jailbars (only slightly with my face to the screen). I also read suggestions to have this on strong in general for the SMS and AES. I also use output resolution 1080 over (in case that makes any difference).

I found a low SoG threshold (eg 30mV or 40mV) would make the image jump about, so I originally thought this was not the way to go, but I then found if I left it jumping about and increased the Post-Cost value, it would eventually stop, and rarely give me a shaky image. Increasing Post-Coast a bit further (in my case from 10 to 15) gave me the issue only about 1 in 30 times of loading the profile/booting the console. And this time when the issue was present, it would either quickly (few seconds) sort itself out, or be so noticeable there was no doubt the issue was present and requires a reload of the profile (before I would be second guessing if I was seeing the image shake or not at a distance). Update: On top of the above changes, I believe reducing LLPLL BW from 7 to 6 has completely resolved the issue, I've not yet had the issue since changing this value!

I did notice one thing, and that when the issue is present, the input lines show 263p (or flicks quickly between ~260p and ~520i). When the issue is not present, it shows 262p.

This doesn't answer my question about converting the SMS1 to NTSC, but at least I'm happy my stability issue is greatly improved so I'm less interested in completing the NTSC conversion. Hopefully this info might help someone else with Master System instability issues with the RT5X.

[defected78]

This still hasnt been fixed. Should not be marked as solved as no one should tolerate the shaking image.

Image will shake on occassion.

Has the guy abandoned development for his 750 pounds peice of kit. Retrotink 5x was expensive enough as it is.

[Guspaz]

There was an RT5X firmware update released just a few days ago. It improved the deinterlacing quality and backported the RT4K's new 2:2 pulldown to the RT5X. But, obviously he's going to spend most of his time working on the firmware for his new product and not the older product with years of work and polish put into its firmware already. He's just one guy doing this part-time in his garage.

The SMS1 sync problems have been called out on the RT5X product page in the RetroTINK store since before the product launched in 2021. People should tolerate it because they were told in advance that it would not work. It's unreasonable to be told in advance of purchase that something will not work, and then complain after purchase that it does not work.

[SavagePencil]

There was an RT5X firmware update released just a few days ago. It improved the deinterlacing quality and backported the RT4K's new 2:2 pulldown to the RT5X. But, obviously he's going to spend most of his time working on the firmware for his new product and not the older product with years of work and polish put into its firmware already. He's just one guy doing this part-time in his garage.

The SMS1 sync problems have been called out on the RT5X product page in the RetroTINK store since before the product launched in 2021. People should tolerate it because they were told in advance that it would not work. It's unreasonable to be told in advance of purchase that something will not work, and then complain after purchase that it does not work.

Is that an official firmware release? It’s not up on consolemods wiki yet.

[defected78]

Latest firmware is 4 months old

Version 3.71 (2023-10-09)

[orange808]

Latest firmware is 4 months old

Version 3.71 (2023-10-09)

The latest "nightly" build landed on 1/30.

Here's the link:
https://retrotink-llc.github.io/firmware/

[defected78]

Thanks I grabbed that.

Doesnt solve the MS issue but YPbPr (SDP) is best for the master system with 5x as a rule I think.