Scaler that will accept 960p HDMI and output 480i Component

[jevansoh]

Hello,

I have a Big Buck Hunter Arcade1Up cabinet and the screen is way too small.

I want to do the opposite of what most people do to mod these.

I picked up a real, full size, Big Buck Hunter arcade cabinet that has a 25" CRT monitor that only supports 480i.

The Arcade1Up PCB outputs 960p via LVDS.

I purchased a Geekworm LVDS to HDMI adapter and tested it on a regular PC Monitor to make sure it works. It does.

I purchased an Extron 500 to accept the 960p signal via an HDMI to VGA adapter and output 480i to my monitor, but it doesn't work. Everything is all garbled and I just can't get it to work.

Since I've tested the Geekworm board on a 1080p computer monitor and know it works, and since I know my Arcade1Up PCB works, the Extron is the only thing in the loop that could be causing the incompatibility.

I was wondering if someone could recommend another inexpensive scaler/processor for me to try that will accept the 960p HDMI (or DVI or converted VGA) and output 480i component? My monitor won't do 480p or I'd have lots of off the shelf inexpensive solutions, but I have to have something that will convert 960p to 480i.

I looked at an Extron in1508 as those are less than $30 on eBay right now, but I can't figure out if it outputs 480i or only 480p.

I've looked at DVDO VP30, VP50, and VP50 Pro along with Lumagen Vision HD, VisionPro HDQ, etc, but, again, I can't figure out if any of those processors/scalers will accept a 960p signal via HDMI/DVI and convert to 480i.

I'd really appreciate some suggestions as to what I may try next as I'd love to play Big Buck Hunter on a full size "real" arcade cabinet with a real 480i large 25" CRT monitor.

Thanks for your help!

[NewSchoolBoxer]

I like what you're trying to do here. Mathematically, it's simple to downscale 960p to 480i but that doesn't mean device manufactures considered the possibility. If you look at page 16 of the Extron in1508 pdf manual, there is no 480i output option.

A 25" VGA CRT monitor, I'm impressed. If it also accepts composite or s-video, those resolutions are inherently restricted to 480i / 576i PAL and the hack-ish 240p/288p. Any device that can accept 960p HDMI and output composite or s-video will therefore work. Not that I'm sure which devices are compatible with 960p or how clean the downscaling would be. You definitely want s-video over composite.

Other option is to convert the 960p to 1080p and then downscale from digital 1080p to analog 480i in a two device chain. This thread says that Extron DSC 301 can scale 960p to 1080p and it goes for well under $100 online and you have the Extron 500 for the second device.

[Fudoh]

I would also recommend to stick with the VSC500 (if it works), since it's very flexible, has very good quality output and gives you the required RGB output. Give it a try with a 1080p HDMI signal to confirm that.

And yes, probably any of the not too dated Extrons as an intermediate scaler is your best choice (DSC HD-HD or the 301). These accept basically any resolution you throw at them and allow for rescaling to a compatible resolution.

How do the rifles on the 1up work/register? Are you confident that moving the complete system to the CRT will still give you working light guns?

[jevansoh]

I just ordered an Extron 301 HD from eBay, so when I get that in, I'll try upscaling the 960p to 1080p first, keeping the Extron 500 in the loop to downscale 1080p to 480i and hope it works!

The only thing I've really done is move the Arcade1Up PCB from its small Arcade1Up cabinet to the real full sized original Cabinet, but I'm still using the Arcade1Up PCB and Arcade1Up guns.

I bought a cheap 25" CRT TV on eBay, decased it, and installed it in the cabinet so I'd have Component inputs (it also has composite and s-video).

The Arcade1Up PCB not only has Big Buck Hunter Pro, but it also has Big Buck Safari, Big Buck World, and some other games, so it's basically like 3 full size cabinets in one, as I wouldn't have the room or the budget for 3 different full sized cabs just for Big Buck Hunter.

The guns work with Sinden technology, which basically just puts a white bar around the edges of the monitor in place of IR LED's or flashing the CRT monitor like traditional gun games, so the Sinden technology on the Arcade1Up PCB will actually work with any monitor type and size.

Fingers crossed this will work.

When I get the 301 HD in and try upscaling before downscaling, I'll post the results here.

I hope by adding two video processors and the Geekworm board it doesn't introduce much input lag. The main goal is to get it working, of course, but if it introduces so much lag you can't make accurate shots, then it still won't end up working out.

If anyone has any other suggestions I might try, I'd love to hear your ideas, just in case this doesn't work or causes too much lag.

Thanks!

[jevansoh]

I would also recommend to stick with the VSC500 (if it works), since it's very flexible, has very good quality output and gives you the required RGB output. Give it a try with a 1080p HDMI signal to confirm that.

And yes, probably any of the not too dated Extrons as an intermediate scaler is your best choice (DSC HD-HD or the 301). These accept basically any resolution you throw at them and allow for rescaling to a compatible resolution.

How do the rifles on the 1up work/register? Are you confident that moving the complete system to the CRT will still give you working light guns?

I forgot to mention, I put a Roku 1080p device on the Extron 500 and hooked it up to the same 480i CRT monitor I want to use for Big Buck Hunter and it downscaled the Roku 1080p signal to 480i just fine.

Believe it or not, it really did a good job and the 1080p Roku doesn't look bad at 480i!

So I know the Extron 500 works, but for some reason, even though it clearly states in the manual that it will accept PC Signals and should work with 960p just fine, it just isn't working with the 960p signal this Geekworm LVDS to HDMI adapter puts out.

[Guile]

Have you tried another hdmi to vga converter? I have sent the vsc 500 a 960p signal from an ossc and it works very well. I use the Tendak converter.

This is a pretty interesting experiment, I never thought to use a Sinden on a crt with a downscaled image.

[orange808]

+1
I don't recall any signal my Extron scan converter couldn't handle.

[jevansoh]

Have you tried another hdmi to vga converter? I have sent the vsc 500 a 960p signal from an ossc and it works very well. I use the Tendak converter.

This is a pretty interesting experiment, I never thought to use a Sinden on a crt with a downscaled image.

I did try another one. The Amazon one that also has the mini USB jack for adding power and I tried adding the 5v power, too.

It didn't work.

The VSC 500 "should" accept the 960p signal according to the manual and according to you and another poster here, but all I know is that the Geekworm adapter is working because when I hook up a 1080p monitor to it, it works fine, and I know the VSC 500 is working because when I hook up a 1080p Roku, it downscales to the 480i monitor just fine.

So simply by process of elimination, to me, and the way I understand it, the VSC 500 "has" to be the culprit here, right?

I have the Extron 301 HD on the way, so we'll soon find out.

[fernan1234]

The Pixel FX Morph should be able to do this all as a single device. I'm hoping the OSSC Pro will have an interlace SD output as well though it will not have a built in HDMI input and analogue output like the Morph will.

[bnewstead]

Hey
Can I ask Jevansoh, did Extron DSC 301 work when trying to change PCB res to 1080p?

I’m attempting something similar on my Big Buck Hunter World PCB, where I want to change PCB resolution from 1280x960 to 1080p. I already have it setup on 40inch Samsung FHD TV via geekworm Ldvs to Hdmi but would like full 1080p resolution if its possible? Thanks

[LDigital]

OSSC pro could do this. I’m having an absolute blast with mine playing switch cave ports on my bvm in 480i and 240p. The downscaler function with the AV output expansion is incredible