M2 ShotTriggers DDP Daioujou Rinne Tensei

[dmk1198]

Great review on Eurogamer

[pablumatic]

M2 twitter, I seem to remember them posting in English sometimes.

https://twitter.com/m2_game

Another sign that they gave up on the western market.

I think the Kyukyoku Tiger-Heli release by Limited Run Games is only happening due to Embracer owning Toaplan. Not expecting any non-Toaplan M2 ShotTriggers released in English.

[evil_ash_xero]

M2 twitter, I seem to remember them posting in English sometimes.

https://twitter.com/m2_game

Thanks. I sent them a message in English with a Google Translate version after it. You never know.

[PsikyoPshumpPshooterP]

How do I play Arcade Osarai mode? My screen is blank when I first start it up. Please help

[DestroyTheCore]

Is it normal I can't insert more than 7 credits? Do I have to raise the limit with more playtime or is there an option I accidentally changed?

[eksratu]

How do I play Arcade Osarai mode? My screen is blank when I first start it up. Please help

You have to play (and die) in Arcade/White Label mode for anything to show up in Osarai mode.

Is it normal I can't insert more than 7 credits? Do I have to raise the limit with more playtime or is there an option I accidentally changed?

I think you get more credits to play with by finishing games. I got to 9 credits by attempting BL and Arrange EX a few times and making sure to submit my scores.

[DestroyTheCore]

Is it normal I can't insert more than 7 credits? Do I have to raise the limit with more playtime or is there an option I accidentally changed?

I think you get more credits to play with by finishing games. I got to 9 credits by attempting BL and Arrange EX a few times and making sure to submit my scores.

Seems like I can now credit feed. I'll finally be able to reach Stage 2!

[DrTrouserPlank]

I'm always amazed how easy it is to get caught up in the stupidity of these games when you are playing them every day, but whenever I take a few days off any particular game and come back to it, you realise just how bullshit some of the stages are and you wonder why you have even been wasting your time trying to entertain the idea that you can get through them. This is basically a 5 stage game with 3 final stages.

It's absolute nonsense.

[Jonpachi]

Maybe this game is just not for you? Are there shmups you actually enjoy?

[Udderdude]

P L A N K E D

[DrTrouserPlank]

Maybe this game is just not for you? Are there shmups you actually enjoy?

I enjoy the gameplay of a lot of them, but once they change from mostly reactive dodging to strict route memorisation with no room for deviation or ability to impact the result any other way I find they become less and less interesting. Strict route memorisation usually goes hand in hand with difficulty, which is why this game for example is significantly less fun from stage 3 onwards.

Basically, the absolute necessity for strict routing is far too much of a requirement for success and often occurs far too early in many of these games.

[Mero]

Just play something else that's less strict. I didn't get this because I knew I didn't want to play DOJ (I have the PS2 ver.).

[ASDR]

I can see the argument, strict routing feels a bit like memorizing chess openings, can take the fun out of it. But this port has super easy, two arranges and black label, so there's some alternatives for people that found the white label of the PS2 port a bit too punishing.

[Ms. Tea]

I've been having a *lot* of fun with arrange-L. Making it to Hibachi is pretty easy, but *beating* Hibachi's another story. It's a pretty interesting experience continually replaying the game trying to optimize my run the whole way through to have more lives/bombs to take into the end, as opposed to grinding out a 1cc in arcade mode where I press to survive a little further each time.

[DrTrouserPlank]

Yeah as I say, it's just way too much strict routing hence the 3 final stages comparison. Usually you can get by in these games with some light routing or pre-emptive firing on stage 3 and maybe to some extent 4 before the final stage becomes a strict memory snorefest. This game is just 3 final stages back to back, where if you end up a quarter of a second late to any spot you need to be at the whole screen descends into chaos and is unrecoverable. It's very much a good example of how these games are specifically designed to not be cleared without pumping them with money.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

if you end up a quarter of a second late to any spot you need to be at the whole screen descends into chaos and is unrecoverable.

DTP is a visitor from an alternate reality where DaiOuJou has no bombs or hypers and the hitbox is about triple the size we're all used to.

[DrTrouserPlank]

if you end up a quarter of a second late to any spot you need to be at the whole screen descends into chaos and is unrecoverable.

DTP is a visitor from an alternate reality where DaiOuJou has no bombs or hypers and the hitbox is about triple the size we're all used to.

I never said that. To the contrary, on Jan 12th I said this:

Should have been a 4 button game. I don't want to hyper I want to fucking bomb asshat. Get that shit off my screen.

The lack of choice you have over this matter is one of my biggest gripes outside of the difficulty and rigid nature of the gameplay. I don't need a system that replaces my bomb button with something that ultimately ends up making the game harder than it is to begin with.

[ASDR]

The lack of choice you have over this matter is one of my biggest gripes outside of the difficulty and rigid nature of the gameplay. I don't need a system that replaces my bomb button with something that ultimately ends up making the game harder than it is to begin with.

Fixing this like in the later games would've made for a fun ROM hack or something M2 could've offered in an arrange. Question for people that are good at DOJ, would this be actually be useful in this game? Are there any cool routes or strategies that would be unlocked if you had separate buttons?

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I never said that.

if you end up a quarter of a second late to any spot you need to be at the whole screen descends into chaos and is unrecoverable.

Anyways, if you don't want the bullet speed increase from using a hyper, just mash the bomb button until you use a bomb. You'll cancel out of the hyper safely before anything gets hectic. Generally, the extra damage from hypering is worth the risk of increased bullet speeds for a short period of time, and you normally want to use a hyper for safety over a bomb under normal circumstances as you can either survive until the hyper ends, or bomb to end it early if it gets dicey. The only reason to use a bomb without hypering might be for scoring purposes (saving it for a later, more lucrative section). Would it be nice to have dedicated buttons? Perhaps, but the game works fine as it is, as do other 3 buttons games with hyper/bomb mapped to one button like Rolling Gunner, Crimzon Clover, etc.

Fixing this like in the later games

SDOJ doesn't work this way. The Exa mode does, however.

[ASDR]

Fixing this like in the later games

SDOJ doesn't work this way. The Exa mode does, however.

Ah, I never actually played it, the four button control scheme is only on the actual Exa system? The 360 port or the CV1000D ROM don't support this?

[DrTrouserPlank]

I'm going to have to leave this shit alone. It's just a shitty scoring system, a shitty bomb system and absolutely busted difficulty progression. Fucking terrible even by Cave's standards.

(btw I found out how the bomb system is supposed to work. If you credit feed it like intended, you can bomb when you like since you never have a hyper available.)

[Rastan78]

I'm going to have to leave this shit alone. It's just a shitty scoring system, a shitty bomb system and absolutely busted difficulty progression. Fucking terrible even by Cave's standards.

(btw I found out how the bomb system is supposed to work. If you credit feed it like intended, you can bomb when you like since you never have a hyper available.)

[DrTrouserPlank]

I'm inclined to think that is probably sugar, but it was a spirited try nonetheless.

[EngineerSTG]

I never said that.

if you end up a quarter of a second late to any spot you need to be at the whole screen descends into chaos and is unrecoverable.

Anyways, if you don't want the bullet speed increase from using a hyper, just mash the bomb button until you use a bomb. You'll cancel out of the hyper safely before anything gets hectic. Generally, the extra damage from hypering is worth the risk of increased bullet speeds for a short period of time, and you normally want to use a hyper for safety over a bomb under normal circumstances as you can either survive until the hyper ends, or bomb to end it early if it gets dicey. The only reason to use a bomb without hypering might be for scoring purposes (saving it for a later, more lucrative section). Would it be nice to have dedicated buttons? Perhaps, but the game works fine as it is, as do other 3 buttons games with hyper/bomb mapped to one button like Rolling Gunner, Crimzon Clover, etc.

Fixing this like in the later games

SDOJ doesn't work this way. The Exa mode does, however.

That’s not true, especially for survival. Which I’m sure is what we’re talking about. Just off the top of my head, using bomb for quick kills on the second and fourth boss.

[beer gas canister]

I'm going to have to leave this shit alone. It's just a shitty scoring system, a shitty bomb system and absolutely busted difficulty progression. Fucking terrible even by Cave's standards.

(btw I found out how the bomb system is supposed to work. If you credit feed it like intended, you can bomb when you like since you never have a hyper available.)

Dawg you gotta just put in the work, none of these games get easier unless you legitimately practice the hard parts and stop searching for excuses. Or just turn the difficulty down, which is also fine to do and actually built into the game. The levels are learnable unless you convince yourself that they aren't. Not the game dev's fault. Learning is fun

[hamfighterx]

I mean, if anything, M2 includes the Super Easy modes for exactly these reasons. If someone wants to play through without feeling the need for stringent pathing, that's kind of a perfect solution. There's also Custom mode to further tweak settings to your liking, the arrange modes in this ShotTriggers release are also a bit more flexible, there are lots of good training/practice tools, gadgets to help you with stuff like bee locations, and if you get comfortable with all that and feel like moving on to arcade Black Label, it's there when you're ready. Or if you never want to do that, totally viable too! M2 is doing literally everything possible to make these games more accessible and fill them with difficulty options so they aren't so rough, if you don't want to use those options that's on you.

But sure, talk about how "shitty" of a game DOJ is, and complain about it being "[f]ucking terrible even by Cave's standards" for what, shock value? Dropping into this topic just to take a wildly contrarian position on one of the most beloved games in genre history (it shows up in the top 5 of the community-voted best shmups ever list almost almost every year for the past two decades) feels more like trolling than anything. Not to say people can't have their own opinions, even if those are squarely in the minority, but what exactly do you expect to get out of coming in guns blazing to talk about how a game most of us really like is trash?

Sorry you don't seem to be enjoying yourself, Doc. I can only suggest maybe giving some more serious consideration to using the alternate modes available through this release that kinda feel like they should address a lot of your issues. If it's not for you, OK, cool. Let the people who enjoy the thing have their fun.

[Steven]

Fixing this like in the later games

SDOJ doesn't work this way. The Exa mode does, however.

Ah, I never actually played it, the four button control scheme is only on the actual Exa system? The 360 port or the CV1000D ROM don't support this?

That's right. Even then they are only separate in the new Exa mode and not the original mode or whatever it's called.

While I am here, why do people like this game so much, both in general and compared to the other games in this series? I have been wondering about it myself for a while. Why is it considered the best game in this series, and what does it do better than the others? Aside from the autobomb in Daifukkatsu and Daioujou being more strict with chaining than the rest, they all seem about the same to me if I'm being honest... I have only played DonPachi for like 2 or 3 minutes, though, so I know basically nothing about that game.

Also, for people who like chaining... assuming you exist, why do you like chaining?

[DrTrouserPlank]

I honestly can't even tell what difference changing the game to easy makes. Maybe it affects bullet speed a tiny little bit but it's incredibly minimal. Bullet density seems just as bad. It certainly isn't going to make any difference.

[clippa]

Trouser, I feel your pain. There is a bit more memorisation in here than other cave games, but I will say that just as I was about to give in, I got the black label clear. I was starting to feel a little frustrated with it, but didn't realise how close I was.

Push on! Have you tried B-exy? The extra bombs you get with the other loadouts feel like a decoy, the extra fire power with exy is a much better deal.

I'm king of the flailing shitters. I never do any practise, always full runs, but playing the arranges will definitely have prepared me. The final stage felt so intuitive once I got there. If I can do it, anyone can.

Stick with it. Maybe you just need a break to play something else and recharge your batteries, or play some more of the arrange modes. Perseverance will get you through!

[Steven]

This game just claimed a casualty: the d-pad on my Retro-Bit Saturn controller stopped registering down inputs immediately after I destroyed the stage 2 miniboss. Opened the controller to find the d-pad's down thingy cracked. Great. Looks like I'm not playing this game, or anything else on Switch, for a while.