A man walks into a bar.

[DrTrouserPlank]

Ouch!!

So how have you been?

[Marc]

Well how the heck are you?

[Sumez]

No fucking way

[BIL]

Bro Doing good thanks! Hope you had a good Christmas.

[XtraSmiley]

Ouch!!

Ouch? For a Doctor, I expected a more professional reaction.

2023 draws to a close tonight, excited for 2024 as it's a big year for me as it's the year of the Dragon and I'm retiring from my job, so exciting times!

And no, I don't know who you are, but I saw the thread and decided to say hi regardless, hello!

[DrTrouserPlank]

This morning I made (probably) a very bad decision and bought all the M2 Cave ports off the PSN store. Now when I close my eyes all I see is bullets. I don't think that ever used to happen before lol.

I'm not sure why I do this to myself. I bought the two Psikyo Collections and it reignited the desire for a bit of shmup action ... and everyone knows how I do so enjoy a nice relaxing Cave shooter.

[Lander]

Pint of absinthe please, barman! Ought to help with the bruised midriff

[RGC]

Welcome back Doc! What do you reckon, will 2024 be year of the Cave 1CC? With every passing year I become more accepting of those sorts of achievements being permanently behind me. Will always love the genre though.

[Some-Mist]

Ohhh mama
What a time to come back indeed

[Marc]

DTP - Deathsmiles 2. Honestly dude, if - I - can manage it....
Working on an all Rank 3 clear, fell at the last stage yesterday. It doesn't have the obnoxiously long last stage the original has, and is generous with resources. Get on it!

[BareKnuckleRoo]

From an older thread:

I am trying to improve. Maybe I'm not going about it the right way despite my best efforts.

I genuinely do sympathize that you've returned while still feeling like the games are unapproachable and that you're unable to get results with them. I tried to look through some of your older posts and I think the answer to both questions is "No", but:

1) Have you ever tried recording any of your gameplay? That might help you improve as you'd be able to get some direct feedback on your playthroughs rather than just general advice, and it might shed some insight on how you're playing the games and what you're having trouble with. It's not too tough nowadays to point a smartphone at a screen and hit record, I do it sometimes with games. Do some runs of Futari and put 'em on Youtube, that'd be a way to see what there is in terms of room for improvement.

2) Have you ever hung out in person with anyone else playing shmups? Someone in person might be able to diagnose what you're having trouble with in terms of your gameplay habits. It might largely be a self-confidence issue, but maybe not, and it might be something seeing other people play in person would help address. There's various meets that take place here 'n there, and Twitch's shmup category might also serve as a place to see folks do live runs and see their controls, even if you're not near them.

[DrTrouserPlank]

From an older thread:

I am trying to improve. Maybe I'm not going about it the right way despite my best efforts.

I genuinely do sympathize that you've returned while still feeling like the games are unapproachable and that you're unable to get results with them. I tried to look through some of your older posts and I think the answer to both questions is "No", but:

1) Have you ever tried recording any of your gameplay? That might help you improve as you'd be able to get some direct feedback on your playthroughs rather than just general advice, and it might shed some insight on how you're playing the games and what you're having trouble with. It's not too tough nowadays to point a smartphone at a screen and hit record, I do it sometimes with games. Do some runs of Futari and put 'em on Youtube, that'd be a way to see what there is in terms of room for improvement.

2) Have you ever hung out in person with anyone else playing shmups? Someone in person might be able to diagnose what you're having trouble with in terms of your gameplay habits. It might largely be a self-confidence issue, but maybe not, and it might be something seeing other people play in person would help address. There's various meets that take place here 'n there, and Twitch's shmup category might also serve as a place to see folks do live runs and see their controls, even if you're not near them.

It's a dodging issue. Not so much in the sense that I can't dodge it, but dodging all those patterns over half an hour of gameplay is going to be a 1 in a ten-thousand type event. You pretty much can just reduce these games down to probabilities and when you multiply those probabilities for each stage together you get a very small number. The answer is is either get better, or play until you hit that golden run. I can't get THAT much better or more consistent, and there's not much point just hammering runs. The games are designed to not be completed in one credit and what I describe here is pretty much the experience of that.

Trying to clear them in one credit tbh is a futile and a largely miserable task since it is destined to fail. The problem is that what goals can you set yourself? clear them in 3 credits? (not exactly inspiring). Score the most you can on one credit for the 3-4 stages that you can stay alive? (pretty dead-ended as a goal).

The whole 1cc goal is just nonsense. They aren't meant to be played that way and are tuned in difficulty to the 0.1% of players who might attempt it.

[Lander]

Goal-wise, I tend to practice segments of stages independently (ex. pre midboss, midboss, post-midboss, boss) and predicate success on lives lost, or on relative comfort if it's a hard section that's guaranteed to munch through 1UPs at my current skill level.
In a sense it's a memo exercise, though more in the sense of high-level knowledge of what waves and hazards are coming, than the low-level rote "be at this pixel on this frame" sense that I always dreaded.
Though maybe the latter is a function of not having seriously challenged the really ridiculous stuff; I can do the various CAVE Novice modes with a bit of effort, and Cho Ren Sha, but their arcade clears still elude.

I think of it in terms of problem solving; the CAVE equation as a whole is ridiculously dense and intimidating, and not worth trying to look at from ground level unless you enjoy demoralization. But the smaller the pieces you can break a problem down into, the easier they are to solve individually, and eventually build up a complete solution. Projecting that onto the probability idea, it's a matter of tweaking the smallest numbers in the composite upward until the whole eventually starts looking less like a joke and more like an outside chance.

Hitting a plateau can be brutal, but I've found it often means whatever I'm trying to overcome is too large, and needs to be broken down further. Using Mushi as an example, I got really frustrated after a point because I was practicing whole stages, and inevitably not performing consistently across the many practice attempts. Switching over to segment practice in the in-game training mode helped, and pushed me further toward the non-Novice 1CC.
(Which I'll note still eludes me, but I came this close once, so know it can be done in time.)

Strictly, I think the segment practice mode built into most ports and modern shmups isn't granular enough. To really beat back the frustration, you need full freedom to set savestate boundaries around short trouble sections, and drill the hell out of those specifically. That increases the chance of seeing a palpable improvement, which is absolutely critical to staying motivated enough to stick with it.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

It's a dodging issue.

Doubtful; I suspect it's a combination of something far more systemic that could be addressed by having someone observe you playing, and something that's tied to self-confidence. Being able to play with someone more skilled in person may provide you with some insight and help break whatever bad habits you've got that are sabotaging your attempts to improve.