Capture VHS home videos with DVDO VP30

[Endgame22]

I have a DVDO Vp30 with ABT102 card. I want to capture home movies from VHS. Different sources online say it's best to capture 480i raw output and then deinterlace on pc in software.
However, if Vp30 has TBC and VCR mode, as well as 3:2 pudown (if needed, I'm assuming most of my NTSC tapes will be fine at 29.97 fps) then can't I deinterlace and convert to 1080p before going to capture card instead? Would quality suffer? I can't output 480i on Vp30, all progressive except 1080i.

Also, my current capture card is the older Elgato Game Capture HD from 2012 I think. Compression is h.264 but in obs I can use avi container for lossless file to my understanding. Would this card be fine? Trying to get best quality I can without doing crazy archival routes

Thanks!

[ZellSF]

If you capture in 1080p you'll have to deal with much larger files, and if you display the video in any other size you'll get two scaling passes (480p > 1080p > 2160p for example) and that will reduce video quality.

Neither are huge concerns, but I don't see any reason to let the VP30 upscale. Set it to output 480p.

Also, my current capture card is the older Elgato Game Capture HD from 2012 I think. Compression is h.264 but in obs I can use avi container for lossless file to my understanding.

If I'm finding the right card it's a USB 2.0 card. There's no lossless capture, it has an on-board h.264 encoder and you need to get that without re-encoding it again. I'm not sure, but I would assume you would need to use Elgato's software for this. Avoid OBS unless you have a really good reason to use it.

Would this card be fine? Trying to get best quality I can without doing crazy archival routes

Try and see. If you're satisfied with the VP30 + Elgato, great! If you aren't, well they aren't great pieces of equipment to be capturing VHS with. If you want to avoid crazy archival routes look into DVD recorders. The better ones can probably give better results.

[orange808]

Get a VCR with high quality svideo output first. You don't want to downgrade the information on the tape to composite. After that, I'd try something like a Barco ImagePro II to get frame locked 480i output and capture that. Then, you clean up everything and do all your video processing using the computer.

[Endgame22]

Get a VCR with high quality svideo output first. You don't want to downgrade the information on the tape to composite. After that, I'd try something like a Barco ImagePro II to get frame locked 480i output and capture that. Then, you clean up everything and do all your video processing using the computer.

Yes, currently looking for a decent vcr with better outputs. I'll have to look into that scaler but currently costs are too much. Wish I could lock 480i on Vp30 but 480p may be best I can do.

If I'm finding the right card it's a USB 2.0 card. There's no lossless capture, it has an on-board h.264 encoder and you need to get that without re-encoding it again. I'm not sure, but I would assume you would need to use Elgato's software for this. Avoid OBS unless you have a really good reason to use it.

@ZellSF So buying a USB 3.0 capture card is better way to go? So with 2.0usb would that re-encode h.264 after going to PC is that what you mean, so it would be pretty compressed and not great quality? Why not use OBS? Thanks!

[ZellSF]

I'll have to look into that scaler but currently costs are too much.

I can't find anything VHS-specific that processor does. It also seems to be relatively new and not made with VHS in mind at all. Unless I'm missing something there are DVD recorders that would do a much better job for a fraction of the price.

So with 2.0usb would that re-encode h.264 after going to PC is that what you mean

USB 2.0 does not have the bandwidth for lossless video transfer (it can in theory do it for SD video, but since it's a HD card I doubt it's implemented). The incoming video signal is encoded to H.264 to fit over the USB wires. Your PC never sees anything other than H.264. I should re-emphasize that I'm not familiar with your capture card, so you should experiment to see if I'm right or not.

There are two reasons you want to avoid hardware compression. One is that it's usually not that good (more artifacts, higher file size), the other is that if you want to do any post processing on your computer, you will make the artifacts worse

Sharpening the video? You're sharpening the artifacts and making those more visible too. Brightening the video? The video compressor makes more artifacts in dark areas that you don't usually see, that you now made more visible.

Depending on your hardware you might be able to do some of that processing before it gets to the capture card (the VP30 can do sharpness and levels adjustment for example), but probably not as good as more advanced PC filtering and you won't be able to make changes later.

@ZellSF So buying a USB 3.0 capture card is better way to go?

Didn't you want to avoid crazy archival routes? You have a working capture setup. Try doing a capture and see what problems you have with it. Then you can ask how to fix those problems, what equipment you need to buy, etc. Remember to experiment with less important tapes.

You also mentioned home videos. Since copyright isn't a concern, have you considered just getting it done by a professional service?

Why not use OBS?

OBS is really made for streaming. It's not so much meant for capturing a single analogue source. It's also constantly in development and has constant new bugs.

If you replace your capture card Use VirtualDub for lossless capture. With your current card that (likely) needs a hardware H.264 encoder, you might have to use the capture card's own software to get that H.264 stream. You don't want to re-encode it again.

[Rulumi]

In Windows (and I think MacOS in Intel), you can configure the elgato software to record the H.264 ".ts" from the encoder, just remember to set the bitrate to the highest and to disable the "Convert Standard Definition to 640x480" to keep the interlacing on the recording. I guess "Strech Standard Definition Input" will be better to disable too, but I think that one just puts the anamorphic flag for video players to read in the file if I remember correctly.

There's also a Linux community driver that will work if wanting to record the H.264 ".ts" from this device directly from VLC or similar, but it's probably not worth the hassle for most.

[ZellSF]

I mean he's not getting interlaced in the first place if going through the VP30...

But I just checked something now, and the Elgato HD seems to have an analog input that can do both composite and s-video:
https://meanwhileblog.wordpress.com/201 ... ss-than-5/

So 480i capture is possible directly through the Elgato. Definitely try comparing capturing with and without the VP30. The VP30 might have better comb filtering and TBC functionality, but if you capture with it you're stuck with its deinterlacing.

I know you said you didn't want to the crazy archival routes, but you're going to have to do some comparison captures to see what works well. There is no easy way other than getting a professional to do it for you, and even then finding a professional and not just a service that uses terrible equipment might present an issue of its own.

[kitty666cats]

If you don’t wanna go too wild with a big chain and video processors (unnecessary IMO), a nice-ish S-VHS deck w/ Svid in and out of a Panasonic DMR-ES15 is gonna be plenty for most people. Software deinterlacing is the way to go.

[NoAffinity]

Doesnt the vp30 have a pass through mode?

But as @ZellSF identified, eliminating unnecessary hardware would be best if the elgato can take in 480i directly.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

The Sony RDR-GX7 dvd recorder deck (circa 2004) is a fine one to use with a VCR deck as well. This particular dvd recording deck can even record satellite programming off of a SD Direct TV set-box as well with "no lock-out restrictions" whatsoever (the later released Sony dvd recording decks did away with this particular feature). I've converted some various Gamest Superplay VHS tapes with it & the resulting DVD-R copy came out looking much better & sharper than it did through normal VHS tape playback. I was quite impressed with the shmup superplay DVD-R conversions.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Endgame22]

Doesnt the vp30 have a pass through mode?

But as @ZellSF identified, eliminating unnecessary hardware would be best if the elgato can take in 480i directly.

quote=NoAffinity post_id=1543676 time=1704208443 user_id=19251]
Doesnt the vp30 have a pass through mode?

But as @ZellSF identified, eliminating unnecessary hardware would be best if the elgato can take in 480i directly.
[/quote]

Found this online: Passthrough mode allows digital and analog signals to be passed through without any deinterlacing or scaling. Passthrough mode allows an HDMI input signal to be passed through to the HDMI output and an analog input, on the BNC input, to be passed through to the BNC output.

So I'd need to attach a VCR with hdmi or rca to bnc connections (which would mean composite video instead of s-video) to have passthrough of 480i.

I have the analog adapter for my elgato, so I can connect a VCR to the elgato and direct to my pc and see what quality that provides compared to connecting to Vp30 first then to pc. Unfortunately it's in storage atm in another city so I'll have to wait for now.

A VCR connected to a DVD-R deck is an interesting way to go i'll keep my eyes peeled.

Yeah was thinking of a professional doing it but really depends how they capture and transfer the footage, if it's just a cheapo dongle I could do myself then not worth it haha. I'll look what's around

[orange808]

A professional should have a high quality S-VHS deck that's well maintained and working properly. That's the first step.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

What would be a good recommended pro-grade S-VHS deck to buy?

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[ZellSF]

There's a list at https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/286 ... ssional%29

Any really good VHS player is rather expensive though and long term you might get both better and cheaper results with cheaper players that have decent tracking and vhs-decode.

And people like OP who don't want to put too much resources into it are probably better off getting a cheap player with decent tracking and getting a DVD recorder to otherwise clean up the signal.

[leonk]

Recently went through this. What worked well for me is connecting a VCR to one of those DVD recorders. The DVD recorder does the encoding and burning to DVD (for backup of the VHS tape) you then copy the VHS content to your computer (straight copy, disc is not encrypted) and run it through HandBrake with a couple of filters to deinterlace and clean the image.

No need to encode higher res than 480p. Use the extra bits to preserve as much of the original image as possible. I use constant quality with value of 18.

[ZellSF]

If you're doing it that way (as opposed to just using a DVD recorder as a video passthrough / signal cleaner) then it should be noted that the Panasonic mentioned earlier is not recommended. Its MPEG2 compression is supposedly pretty bad.

If you find a good DVD recorder (and many aren't) then it's definitively the easiest way though.

Personally I would rather deal with getting a PC capture card to avoid MPEG2 compression entirely.

[jd213]

One could also import a Sony Blu-ray recorder from Japan, they can record the analog input in AVC and you can fit a good bit of recordings on a BD-R, even at the max bitrate they allow for analog (around 15 MB/s). Although the brightness might be slightly off due to them expecting NTSC-J signals.

I found that the older models from the late 2000s/early 2010s have better comb filters than the later ones, though.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Which Japanese Sony Blu-Ray recorder is recommended, jd213?

I was looking forward to Sony selling their Blu-Ray recording decks in the USA but they never did so. I think they were scared/concerned about blu-ray disc piracy at the time as one of the main reasons as to why they didn't sell 'em stateside.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[ZellSF]

I've heard a few times that newer recorders are sort of bad at stabilizing VHS tapes. That said, I've only heard it and not personally verified it.

There's a certain someone (not from here) who seems to be very insistent on saying DMR-ES10/15 are the only recorders that help with VHS tapes that poisons most conversations about this, so information is very unreliable.

[jd213]

I like the BDZ-T55/BDZ-T75 (latter has a slightly bigger HDD and can record two TV shows at once, not sure if it can record two external inputs at once). They're heavy-ass Made in Japan tanks though, so shipping would probably cost you more than buying the unit used.

I've also used a later Sony model that specifically had a VHS recording mode (I think the model was BDZ-EW1100). This had a worse comb filter, but that wouldn't matter if you have a good external comb filter or want to record VHS using an SVHS deck.

[orange808]

VHS tapes are natively "svideo", so you shouldn't be using a comb filter at all. ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

If you grab a cheap two head tape machine, just get an S-VHS with an svideo output. You don't want to degrade the signal to composite.

The DVD recorder is only there to accept svideo, act as a decoder, and output RGB or "component" video for the next device in the chain.

[jd213]

Right, but not everyone has an SVHS deck and finding a good one is getting harder and harder. Plus I also use my BD recorder for backing up Laserdiscs, which are natively composite so a decent comb filter helps.

[ZellSF]

Also the difference between composite and s-video is obviously much less obvious with a low signal quality like VHS to start with. You might be losing something by going with composite, but maybe not as much as you expect if you think typical composite vs s-video comparisons.

I wish there were any actual comparisons on the internet, since I can't find any I can't say for sure, but I would guess you would be better off with a high quality composite only player than a low quality s-video one.

[jd213]

I haven't watched it yet but RetroRGB just did a stream testing out comb filters:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsIjaqXjMkY