Best Saturn style Dpad option for PS5?

[ASDR]

So I just bought two M2 shot trigger releases for the PS4 (want to play on PS5). I got a couple for Switch, but I figured I might as well get one less frame of latency this time. The issue is now I just realized I never played an arcade / 2D game on my PS5 and the Dpad on the PS5 controller sucks and I don't really have any other controller options for the PS5 :/

What's the recommended option to get a decent Saturn-style Dpad controller for the PS5? Are there adapters? Anything from Hori/8bitdo/RetroBit or whatever? Lag measurements?

If you have a recommendation, do you actually have compared it to a real Saturn controller? In my experience all the modern recreations of classic controllers kinda suck. The shoulder buttons are always awful and I recently bought a RetroBit six button MD clone for Switch and the Dpad feels totally different than a real MD six button controller and my thumb hurts after a while cause it's so stiff. Even the Sega SLS USB Saturn controllers have awful shoulders / Dpad.

Thanks!

[jd213]

I believe a Daemonbite Saturn adapter + Brook Wingman XE (only works on PS5 when the game also runs on PS4) would have minimal lag.

[ASDR]

I believe a Daemonbite Saturn adapter + Brook Wingman XE (only works on PS5 when the game also runs on PS4) would have minimal lag.

I don't really want to invest in a PS4-games only solution :/ Is there an adapter compatible with PS5 games or is there a natiev PS5 controller with Saturn style Dpad?

[Konsolkongen]

Can’t help you, but I can advise you to avoid the Hori Octo-controller. The d-pad is not very good on that one.

I plan to gut that controller and use it as a basis for an adapter so I can use Saturn controllers specifically.

[ASDR]

Looking at the PS5 controller options I feel like I made a mistake going for PlayStation over Switch here :/

The PS5 controller is terrible and there are apparently no controller options for this platform. None of the 8bitdo or RetroBit controllers support PS5 and the single Hori controller supporting it allegedly sucks :/ I have a Hori Fighting Stick Mini which should at least work with PS4 games on PS5, but that's it.

[Konsolkongen]

I used to think the same, that the Switch would be the solution. But the platform is plagued by input lag issues. Not only are a lot of games themselves laggy, but USB adds half a frame of additional lag, so it really adds up.

I’m almost done selling and replacing the Switch-games I can with better versions. And I can’t imagine I will ever connect an arcade stick or other USB controllers to it again.

Switch has some great exclusive games, primarily from Nintendo, but the hardware is garbage.

[ASDR]

It's both kind of a mess. On the PS5 it takes forever to boot the thing up and get into the game, games take forever to install and update and the controller is IMHO quite bad and has like 3h of battery life. The Switch boots instantly, has a working suspend mode and it's the only console sold that actually plays games from the cart instead of treating it as an install medium. The controller is IMHO very comfortable and lasts forever on a single charge. There's tons of controller options. But then you get 1 frame of lag from the dock, few more ms from the USB stack and whatever lag you get for other reasons like devs enabling tripe buffering to smooth out performance issues.

[Konsolkongen]

That’s not my experience at all. PS5 boots pretty fast here. I even turn it off completely when I’m done playing.

The Switch takes anywhere from 15-20min to power on when I want to use it as the battery has most likely depleted since I last used it.
That’s a me problem because I could just keep it plugged in, but that seems like a waste of power

Also the loading times are slower than any other console, so even if it boots faster you will make up the difference in no time in game loads.

The Switch Pro controller is better than the PS5 one. I agree with that

[ASDR]

The Switch has no load time or boot time cause it doesn't load or boot. It's always in suspend like a mobile phone. It takes 1sec to resume the game exactly where you left it off. I want all consoles to be 80s instant on cartridge stuff or mobile hardware with reliable resume.

Optional PS5 rant:

Spoiler

The PS5 needs to boot, login, load the game, dismiss 5 title screens, load your save, etc. etc. Suspend mode fails so often that I stopped using it at all. And then when it fails the console yells and you for not turning it off the proper way and that it needs to do a lengthy disk / DB check. After that it probably needs to download a 60GB update, the spend 3 minutes unpacking it. And then it needs to install a system update, which involves two reboots, very much unlike a Switch system update that takes <10sec total. And by the time all of this is done the controller battery warning will be displayed. And that is the best case. I once had an update for GT7 fail with a cryptic error message. Took >24h (!!!) of deleting and redownloading a giant update and database rebuilds to make the game start again. The DB rebuild was like 2 days so I interrupted it and then the console yelled at me that interrupted the DB rebuild and that it needs to do a disk check now. Still have that bug where sometimes when I don't use the PS5 for a few weeks have to unplug all cable before it'll boot. It always works 100% fine in game so I assume my SSD etc. is all fine, but there's so many weird glitches with this thing. Did I mention the console looks like a Frank Gehry bulding, can't be stacked and needs a 'horizontal stand'? And fan noise / coil whine.

I don't know, I cancelled my PS4 game order. I think I'll just buy the Switch version. 1 frame of lag more but in return I get to play with a decent controller and can start playing after 1 sec. Probably worth it.

Doesn't seem like there's anything good I can buy for the PS5 controller wise.

[Konsolkongen]

The Switch has no load time or boot time cause it doesn't load or boot. It's always in suspend like a mobile phone. It takes 1sec to resume the game exactly where you left it off. I want all consoles to be 80s instant on cartridge stuff or mobile hardware with reliable resume.

I meant that the games load terribly slow on the Switch. What does it matter that it powers on in a second rather than 10-15 seconds for the PS5 when loading in game can be up 40 seconds or even longer. You're gonna waste more time with the Switch

Optional PS5 rant:

Spoiler

The PS5 needs to boot, login, load the game, dismiss 5 title screens, load your save, etc. etc. Suspend mode fails so often that I stopped using it at all. And then when it fails the console yells and you for not turning it off the proper way and that it needs to do a lengthy disk / DB check. After that it probably needs to download a 60GB update, the spend 3 minutes unpacking it. And then it needs to install a system update, which involves two reboots, very much unlike a Switch system update that takes <10sec total. And by the time all of this is done the controller battery warning will be displayed. And that is the best case. I once had an update for GT7 fail with a cryptic error message. Took >24h (!!!) of deleting and redownloading a giant update and database rebuilds to make the game start again. The DB rebuild was like 2 days so I interrupted it and then the console yelled at me that interrupted the DB rebuild and that it needs to do a disk check now. Still have that bug where sometimes when I don't use the PS5 for a few weeks have to unplug all cable before it'll boot. It always works 100% fine in game so I assume my SSD etc. is all fine, but there's so many weird glitches with this thing. Did I mention the console looks like a Frank Gehry bulding, can't be stacked and needs a 'horizontal stand'? And fan noise / coil whine.

This is not ideal but you can resume activity in the PS5 dashboard to skip most of that stuff. Unfortunately not all games support that optimally, but for the games that do, booting a closed game is infinitely faster than the Switch. You are in-game in FF7 Remake in like 5 seconds.
Most system updates on the PS5 will just download and install in the background without needing to reboot the system. Some still require rebooting however. How the Switch is able to install system updates so fast is truly impressive.

For downloading updates you need to compare against the same title otherwise it's not a fair comparison. Nintendo are REALLY good at releasing polished games that rarely requite updates to run well. And even when they do the download size is very small. I wish every developer took this approach.
For the same game with the same update, the Switch will always be much slower compared to other platforms, because the download speed is ridiculously slow. The wi-fi is terrible, so I even bought an Ethernet adapter (official Nintendo Wii U), which tops out at 100Mb/s, but even then it never comes close to that 100Mb speed.

It sounds like your PS5 might be defective, as I have never experienced that I have a 2TB M.2 installed and a 4TB SSD connected via USB3 for PS4 titles, and mine never want to do DB refreshes. Having experiences like that I can certainly understand if you dislike the system.

Yeah the PS5 is ugly as sin. I just replaced my old model with a Slim which is somehow even uglier But at least the coil whine is gone now

I don't know, I cancelled my PS4 game order. I think I'll just buy the Switch version. 1 frame of lag more but in return I get to play with a decent controller and can start playing after 1 sec. Probably worth it.

Doesn't seem like there's anything good I can buy for the PS5 controller wise.

I hope I don't come across as a huge PS5 fanboy, I have no preference to any particular platform. I think there is a lot wrong with the system, and I agree with some of your criticisms. I went all in on the Switch when I got it as I found it a more hassle-free experience than the PS4 at the time. I did not know about the lag issues, so for any game that ran at a similar performance level and/or resolution the choice was easy, go with the Switch version.

But now I know better. Having replaced and compared several titles I regret ever choosing to buy them on the Switch. If there truly isn't any difference in performance or input lag then I would consider buying the Switch version again, but anything that I would ever want to play with an arcade stick there is no way.

I just wanted to let you know of my preference as I have been in a pretty similar situation. If you really are bothered less by the increase in input lag rather than using a PS5 controller then fair enough, I can respect that

[ASDR]

I seriously considered that I got a lemon PS5, but once it's in-game it actually works. I played hundreds of hours without any issues. So I'm not sure I got busted hardware, so far I just assumed the OS is janky. Also I'm just a modern console hater, I guess. The PS4 annoyed me with all the download and install crap and how hitting the power button doesn't actually turn it off, coil whine, whiny fan, etc. Then I got a One X and thought that was 10x worse and more janky and annoying. My latest acquisition, the PS5, is 10x more janky than that. It just keeps getting worse. I mean having a session of GT7 delayed by over a day because an update failed to install is a new low. No idea why, a dozen or so other GT7 updates before and since worked just fine. Sigh.

The dashboard resume had the same fate with me as the system suspend/resume feature. After it failed a couple of times I stopped trusting it. I remember at least one game had an issue where it loaded like the last auto save instead of the just the last save or vice versa.

Why did you buy the Slim? It doesn't seem much improved and the disc drive pairing issue put me off. Maybe the Pro will be interesting, but I think I'll just ride out my 2nd rev base PS5 till it dies.

The Switch lag can be real, I also hate the noticeable audio lag. Previous handhelds from Sony/Nintendo had none of that crap. In the case of the latest M2 shmups it's basically 2 vs 3 (or 3.5) frames of lag. Guess that's alright. As long as it's <4 frames I'm probably Ok.

I mean I get your Switch complaints. The 1.5 frames of lag is sooo unnecessary and my elderly mother complains about the load times in Animal Crossing, so sure

I did some more reading and it seems there really isn't much of a solution for PS5 controllers. I'm fine playing my modern AAA games on a DualSense but I need something different for 2D/arcade. All the 3rd party ones seem to be aimed at COD esports people. There's just no good SNES/Sega style 2D controllers but I got a whole mountain of Switch compatible controllers.

I just added this abomination to my collection, I swear I'll find a use case for it:

[jd213]

Might be a good controller for Xeno Crisis and other non-analog twin stick shooters, assuming it's compatible. I've only played the Genesis version of Xeno Crisis, and it doesn't allow you to re-map the buttons.

[ASDR]

Also played Xenocrisis on MD, but that's a good idea. I should connect it to the Pi and emulate some Robotron...

Controller supports XInput and Switch. It's the only controller I've ever seen that has clickable Dpads (L3/R3) and there's a firmware update that allows some more options like swapping left 'analog' and 'dpad'. I don't like the Dpads that much as they're the microswitch clicky type and I prefer rubber domes. I got it for ~10EUR from eBay, so it's worth having just for being weird

[Konsolkongen]

Why did you buy the Slim? It doesn't seem much improved and the disc drive pairing issue put me off. Maybe the Pro will be interesting, but I think I'll just ride out my 2nd rev base PS5 till it dies.

Because of the noise. My launch fat PS5 had one of the bad fans and coil whine. I replaced the fan about a year in with a replacement one. That helped a lot, but only made the coil whine noticeable. That fan died a couple of months back so I had to reinstall the original one

I actually did buy another fat model for Black Friday, but it arrived with a broken Blu Ray-drive, so I had to send that back. In the mean time the store had sold out of fat consoles, so I asked if I could get a slim with the same discount instead. That was really nice of them

I'm not worried about the BD licensing stuff. I get why it sucks, but on the other hand it means that I can replace it should it ever die. And I'm sure that a jailbreak could fix potential pairing issues in the future.

The Switch lag can be real, I also hate the noticeable audio lag. Previous handhelds from Sony/Nintendo had none of that crap. In the case of the latest M2 shmups it's basically 2 vs 3 (or 3.5) frames of lag. Guess that's alright. As long as it's <4 frames I'm probably Ok.

The M2 games are probably acceptable on the Switch. I tend to agree with you that 4 frames of lag is usually playable enough.

The PS4 versions of most M2 releases has the additional slight advantage that they render in 2160p, meaning you can get a slightly larger integer-scaled image, than the 1080p Switch version.

I wasn't aware that the Switch has audio lag. Can't say I ever noticed that myself

[ASDR]

Last time I looked into coil whine and fan noise it was basically a lottery. Sony is sourcing different PSUs and fans from different sources, it's hard to say what you'll get. The coil whine is supper annoying and it really depends on the exact system load, so some games are just louder than others. I found the noise to be highly directional and easily blockable, though. You can turn the console in a different direction or put some foam on a surface right next to it in the right spot and suddenly its 75% quieter. It's still just a BS engineered system. For my PS4 Pro I had to return two units but luckily the 3rd was noticeably quieter. Glad you got a good deal on a quiet PS5!

I wasn't aware that the Switch has audio lag. Can't say I ever noticed that myself

I'm probably sensitive to this since I spend years doing electronic music as a hobby, but it really irks me when I hit a keyboard key or drum pad and there's a noticeable delay. I think there's just not enough attention being paid to audio lag outside of music production circles. There's countless Time Sleuth and controller LED lag videos, but nobody ever talks about audio. Easy test: Go to the system menu where there's an audible click sound when the selection changes. Put the dpad up to your ear. Listen to the dpad click and the UI sound coming from your speakers. Do they seem to overlap or can you hear a time difference between the two? I don't have any numbers for you but if you compare the Switch or previous Nintendo/Sony handhelds it's clearly worse.

[Konsolkongen]

I agree that the quality control of PlayStation consoles is rubbish. My launch PS4 was noisy as hell too, whereas my launch Pro was one of the better ones. I can understand the need to source parts from different suppliers, but this level of variation shouldn't be acceptable.

[Lamprey]

Sounds like you aren't a fan of the RetroBit controllers. I happen to have them for my Genesis and Saturn and I like the Saturn one better. That having been said, I wasn't sure if you are looking for a wired or wireless solution? I assumed wireless. I'll admit I haven't tried it myself as I don't have a PS5, but I've had good luck with Brooks adapters for other consoles. They make the Wingman FGC that you can plug a wired controller into or maybe a wierless dongle (?):
https://www.brookaccessory.com/products ... index.html

You could always get one and return it if it doesn't work.

Good luck in your search!

[ASDR]

Sounds like you aren't a fan of the RetroBit controllers. I happen to have them for my Genesis and Saturn and I like the Saturn one better. That having been said, I wasn't sure if you are looking for a wired or wireless solution? I assumed wireless. I'll admit I haven't tried it myself as I don't have a PS5, but I've had good luck with Brooks adapters for other consoles. They make the Wingman FGC that you can plug a wired controller into or maybe a wierless dongle (?):
https://www.brookaccessory.com/products ... index.html

You could always get one and return it if it doesn't work.

Good luck in your search!

I think the only one I have is the six button MD one and I don't like the dpad. It's a lot stiffer than the real ones and I find that causes discomfort and makes the diagonals harder to it.

I'd prefer a wired controller as wireless communication and rechargeable batteries with finite lifespan are just another headache, but I'd be fine with wireless if lag is Ok.

The Brooks page says "the wired stick converter is exclusively for fighting games only", but I don't see why it wouldn't work for any non-analog stick/trigger game. Most of the supported controllers are sticks, but why wouldn't it just work with any pad. Hmm, yeah, it seems like my use case isn't officially supported, but it might just work? Interesting in any case, I only checked the Mayflash site myself and they didn't have any PS5 compatible adapters listed :/

[Rastan78]

https://youtu.be/sG38h8K5W8A?si=dc-0lgtcPN5ymQ08

Check out this video. It does a good job explaining the weird and confusing situation with PS5 controller compatibility. He's focusing on fightsticks here but I imagine a pad through a converter like the wingman will have similar function to the Brook UFB with PS5 upgrade. When Brook says works with PS5 "fighting games" it sounds like that really means any PS5 game that has legacy controller support. That includes most fighting games and arcade style games but not all.

Also bear in mind for some games input lag is worse for the actual PS5 version, so it might be better to run the PS4 version anyway. Raiden IV Mikado for example has twice (!!) the input lag on the PS5 release.

[bobrocks95]

Raiden IV Mikado for example has twice (!!) the input lag on the PS5 release.

That really sucks to hear I just bought Raiden IV and figured might as well get the PS5 version... I'm guessing somebody tested it and I can find the results somewhere?

[ASDR]

https://youtu.be/sG38h8K5W8A?si=dc-0lgtcPN5ymQ08

Check out this video. It does a good job explaining the weird and confusing situation with PS5 controller compatibility. He's focusing on fightsticks here but I imagine a pad through a converter like the wingman will have similar function to the Brook UFB with PS5 upgrade. When Brook says works with PS5 "fighting games" it sounds like that really means any PS5 game that has legacy controller support. That includes most fighting games and arcade style games but not all.

Thanks, that's really informative. So all PS5 controller options are either...

- PS4 controllers / sticks that only work with legacy controller support (already got one of those in form of the Hori FIghting Stick Mini)
- PS5 fight sticks
- PS5 DualSense alternatives that both rather expensive and primarily aimed at modern competitive games

So there really is nothing for people that just want a SNES / MD / Saturn style controller that supports everything :/ The only one that kinda sorta fits that definition is Hori's Fighting Commander OCTA. Interestingly 8bitdo has XBox variants of many of their controllers and basically everything these days seems to have Switch support, hence my large-ish collection of Switch compatible controllers. But no PS5, I can only assume there is some technical or legal reason for this...

Also bear in mind for some games input lag is worse for the actual PS5 version, so it might be better to run the PS4 version anyway. Raiden IV Mikado for example has twice (!!) the input lag on the PS5 release.

That's really bizarre, wonder what the story behind that is! I guess stuff like M2 shot triggers will be PS4 releases for the foreseable future, probably not much of a point to do a PS5 version as well or make them PS5 exclusive.

[Rastan78]

Raiden IV Mikado for example has twice (!!) the input lag on the PS5 release.

That really sucks to hear I just bought Raiden IV and figured might as well get the PS5 version... I'm guessing somebody tested it and I can find the results somewhere?

https://twitter.com/noodalls/status/1623843694720987136

33.99ms average on PS4 which is right at 2 frames. Holy grail territory

PS5 has 72.45ms average which is over 4 frames

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news lol

[bobrocks95]

Raiden IV Mikado for example has twice (!!) the input lag on the PS5 release.

That really sucks to hear I just bought Raiden IV and figured might as well get the PS5 version... I'm guessing somebody tested it and I can find the results somewhere?

https://twitter.com/noodalls/status/1623843694720987136

33.99ms average on PS4 which is right at 2 frames. Holy grail territory

PS5 has 72.45ms average which is over 4 frames

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news lol

Well, at least it's more consistent
Does make it seem like the PS4 version was a fluke when PS5's IV and PS4's V (say that 5 times fast) are both in the 70's.

[Konsolkongen]

Bah, I bought the PS5 version for the same reason. I figured that such similar but more powerful hardware would have the least inputlag, if there was any difference.

Wonder if he had VRR enabled? Some displays add a bit of lag then.

[RebeL9]

Wasn't there even a test that showed that the wireless dualshock have less input lag than a wired one? LOL!