Best way to get access to more Cave games

[shmuppy-puppy]

Hey guys,

I guess there are some experts here.
I got back into playing games after decades of abstinence last year when I bought the SteamDeck. (basically since Defender on the Atari 2600) My most played games during last year were Cave games. Obviously I bought everything that is available on Steam (Mushihimesama, Deathsmiles 1+2, Akai Katana, Dodonpachi DaiFukatsu)
Now it hurts to see that there aren‘t more of the Cave gems available on the platform. I am considering my options to get my hands on more Cave games.
Is there a best platform for me to invest in?
I live in Europe, it may not be easy to get the stuff. I saw that the Xbox discs are actually ridiculously expensive on ebay. Are the games still in an online store that I can use from Europe? Is there an activation process involved in installing and if so, does it even work after all the years?
I know that the switch has Espgaluda II on the store and another DDP that does not show up on a friend‘s eShop, though.
Do you think I should consider emulation and if so, what are the best versions to chase? xbox, PS? Does it work well?
Obviously I would prefer an official version but it seems so complicated to get the games.
I really wish Cave could get their act together and just sell their games to fans, it seems ridiculous to sit on your copyrights without giving people to experience their games on modern hardware.

[shmuppy-puppy]

also, if I buy a used Xbox and the expensive games collection from ebay, will I need to get a japanese or hacked box or will the games run on a Euopean box?

[StrzxgvNuvWvfld]

There are quite a lot readily available on the PS4/5 and Switch.

There are several "Shot Triggers" releases which are the definitive versions. Most are only available in Japan, plenty of info online how to create Japanese accounts though (it really isn't that difficult): Dodonpachi Dai Ou Jou, Ketsui (PS only), ESP Ra De, Dangun Feveron (PS only). You should also be able to pick-up physical copies of these on import, though they may be a touch more expensive. Both consoles are region-free, so no issue running them on a European machine.

You can also get Death Smiles 1+2 and Akai Katana on both platforms (available in Europe).

Switch also has DDP DFK, Espgaluda II and Mushihimesama, all available in the European store.

I may have forgotten something, but I *think* that's everything.

If it was one platform of the other, I would personally go PS as Ketsui is one of my favourites. PS versions often have a touch less latency and you've played most of the Switch games on your Steamdeck. You should be able to pick up a pre-owned PS4 pretty cheaply as well. I think either console's selection is enough to keep you going for a long time! It's not like you're going to finish everything in a weekend!

[Rastan78]

viewtopic.php?t=72543

Same topic came up a couple weeks ago. I would think any Cave fan today would want to have a PS4/PS5 and get all the M2 ports. Just know you need a Japanese PSN account for Esprade and DOJ.

At some point you'll want to slow down from buying and take a more goal oriented approach to playing individual games with skill. And take a look at quality stuff on the system not made by Cave ie Toaplan, Taito, Raizing, Treasure.

[sunnshiner]

If you get a hacked 360 you don't actually need to buy the games- Cave won't be making a penny from them if you buy them second hand.

[Bassa-Bassa]

If you get a hacked 360 you don't actually need to buy the games- Cave won't be making a penny from them if you buy them second hand.

Cave made that money thanks to the people who bought brand new expecting to resell the games at some point, though. If these people can't resell the games due to piracy, then they'll stop buying games.

I'm far from defending second hand markets, but this argument of second hand equals piracy to justify the latter never went anywhere.

[Kazact]

I emulate everything except cv1000 games. I buy ports for those when readily available on steam. Going this route you’ll miss access to a few titles, most of which are stuck on arcade and 360 only.

[Necronom]

Cave made that money thanks to the people who bought brand new expecting to resell the games at some point, though. If these people can't resell the games due to piracy, then they'll stop buying games.

I'm far from defending second hand markets, but this argument of second hand equals piracy to justify the latter never went anywhere.

When the purchase of a game depends on you being able to resell it, you know the market for physical media is in a sorry state...
There are reasons to buy second hand copies but supporting the developer/publisher is not among them. If you want to support Cave, buy the releases that are currently on the market (PS4, Switch, Steam etc).

[sunnshiner]

If you get a hacked 360 you don't actually need to buy the games- Cave won't be making a penny from them if you buy them second hand.

Cave made that money thanks to the people who bought brand new expecting to resell the games at some point, though. If these people can't resell the games due to piracy, then they'll stop buying games.

I didnt know expecting to recoup the cost of one's hobby/entertainment at some unspecified point in the future was a thing.

[ChurchOfSolipsism]

Cave made that money thanks to the people who bought brand new expecting to resell the games at some point, though. If these people can't resell the games due to piracy, then they'll stop buying games.

This sounds highly speculative. Is there any concrete data to support these assumptions?

[Bassa-Bassa]

Isn't really the freaking amount of second-hand game shops and dedicated internet marketplaces enough for you? Can't find an entertainment product selling better second hand nowadays, but it has always been a huge thing even in Japan when reselling was forbidden. Thinking that everybody would still buy new games if they knew beforehand they couldn't be reselling them in the future is a bit far-fetched, but anything is plausible, I guess.

[XtraSmiley]

A cheap Xbox 360 and hack it to play the games off of the hard drive. Easiest way to get them all. Another option is MiSTer which has some (few) working Cave cores. Best option may be emulation on a PC. The PS4/NS release of some Cave games is going well too.

[Lander]

Viewed from a purely qualitative perspective, M2 are kings of the castle and their ports add genuine value, so whichever platform gets you access to more of those (or selected games you already like) is the one you should invest in.

Beyond them, however, nobody really has the chops / budget / sheer give-a-fuck-ery to actually compete with cutting-edge emulation. Best you'll get is a functioning version of the game, some dip switches, and maybe some basic scanline shaders, which is dwarfed by the already-intimidating, ever-growing feature set of something like libretro.

Hardware solutions like MISTer are novel for cutting out the software stack for natively lower latency, but are ultimately still a form of emulation on account of needing core logic to reproduce the functionality of the original board. It's a more robust anti-lag solution than software-based runahead or preemptive frames, but probably not three figures better if you already have a capable machine.

[davyK]

MAME + 360 + (PS4/5 OR Switch)

[neorichieb1971]

Switch for me. I bought 2 of them. One for shooters one for everything else.

The games can be bought on yesasia and playasia brand new. Or you can go amazon japan

[scrilla4rella]

as others have said, buy a ps4 and/or hack a xbox 360. done.

Lander had a good explanation of the MISTER, which is a great option if you don't have a decent PC.

[jandrogo]

Is there any difference between the Deathsmiles and DDP Daifukkatsu (resurrection) steam and x360 versions? I have the original ones in x360, but I don’t know to pull the trigger on Steam versions now that are on sale.

[ChurchOfSolipsism]

Isn't really the freaking amount of second-hand game shops and dedicated internet marketplaces enough for you?

No. The fact that used games provide exactly the same amount of joy as new ones since they don't diminish in quality through usage and that people grow tired of playing the same games explain the used game market just as well. Neither I nor anybody I know has ever considered the question of whether they can resell games before buying them, and people buy shittons of games as downloads, which they can't resell. You're simply assuming things and expect everybody to go along with it.

[Bassa-Bassa]

The fact that used games provide exactly the same amount of joy as new ones since they don't diminish in quality through usage and that people grow tired of playing the same games explain the used game market just as well.

The people know before buying brand new that they'll likely grow tired of the game at some point but that it won't be an issue since they can resell it when it happens. I don't see how you're contradicting my point.

Neither I nor anybody I know has ever considered the question of whether they can resell games before buying them,

You're a collector, then. Never said myself there aren't collectors as well. Just not so many.

and people buy shittons of games as downloads, which they can't resell.

And precisely that was a huge point of controversy (and I want to think still is) among people when platforms like Steam and the likes appeared.

[pulsemod]

Isn't really the freaking amount of second-hand game shops and dedicated internet marketplaces enough for you?

No. The fact that used games provide exactly the same amount of joy as new ones since they don't diminish in quality through usage and that people grow tired of playing the same games explain the used game market just as well. Neither I nor anybody I know has ever considered the question of whether they can resell games before buying them, and people buy shittons of games as downloads, which they can't resell. You're simply assuming things and expect everybody to go along with it.

And yet, even if you and your friends don't do that, there are people who do. I've known plenty of people who plan on reselling a game when they're done playing it to help fund their next game. I wouldn't say it's a main factor of the physical games market, but it's definitely a factor, no matter how small.

I also wouldn't be very inclined to believe piracy being a factor in people not buying new games because they can't resell later (especially talking about games that are over a decade old), people don't buy games because they themselves pirate. Which they're gonna do anyways if that's their thing. I don't think it's worth pushing this much further.

[TransatlanticFoe]

Is there any difference between the Deathsmiles and DDP Daifukkatsu (resurrection) steam and x360 versions? I have the original ones in x360, but I don’t know to pull the trigger on Steam versions now that are on sale.

DFK on Steam includes all the DLC by default (1.51 and Ketsui arrange, the latter I think was JP only), so only worth it if you've not already got the DLC on 360. Or really want to play it on PC.

[jandrogo]

Thanks for your reply @ChurchOfSolipsism! What about resolutions and filters? Do it still support 640x480, tate, fake scanlines, etc?