Anyone else disappointed with the LS-40?

[Swevicus]

Hey, guys.

I've been using the Seimitsu LS-40 - specifically, the LS-40-01 (5-pin harness model) for about a year or two now after alternating between an LS-32 (really LS-32-01-SC with the custom-made shaft cover) and LS-56 (sorry, LS-56-01) for the past 5 or 6 years. I've noticed that I've been doing worse with the 40 than nearly any other joystick - not even the 56 was this error-prone. I tested games of various genres (mainly shmups) on various home computers and consoles (ZX Spectrum, Amstrad CPC, C64 and Amiga are the main ones) and holy smeg, the 40 scored the lowest scores consistently on nearly every genre imaginable (usually accidental and/or lack of inputs complete with bouts of rage) while the 32 just soared higher and higher with the 56 not far behind it. I know the 40's a sensitive joystick, a kind of in-between the 32 and 56, but damn, I wasn't expecting this (I have the results available if anyone wants to see them - game, genre, computer platform, highest score, rank/position, etc.). I'm speechless, guys. Has anyone else gone back to the 32?

S.

[Taiyaki]

LS-40 takes some getting used to. Especially if you're going back and forth with other Seimitsu sticks. It helps if you used to play a lot of Neo Geo fighting since it's the stick that was usually used in the arcades, and I believe the AES Neo Geo stick is also a modified LS-40 (although don't quote me on that).

Personally I really like it, always have, but now a days I do end up having a very slight preference for a Sanwa JLF with modified spring for reduced throw.

[BurlyHeart]

Before I started using a hitbox, I had researched and tested a number of levers. The LS-40-01 was definitely my favorite. I played a lot of Guilty Gear in those days, as well arcade action games and shmups. At first I had some similar issues to what you mention - especially hitting up by accident, but I eventually got used to it.

[bigbadboaz]

I was, yes, but strictly from a feel/character perspective. I didn't think it felt all that much different from a JLF and the corners aren't too well-defined for a square gate. I moved on pretty quickly as I was looking for something significantly tighter than the Sanwa.

Unless you were having really bad pivot hop I can't imagine choosing it over the 32, which deserves its classic status. As for the 56, it does indeed have huge diagonal zones. I can't explain why you'd be having less accuracy with the 40, other factors aside.

[kowal]

This feeling of the LS40 is really nice, very smooth.
The first impression is positive, but it ends quickly. Unfortunately, in the game, he misread more the entrance and inputs in fighting games ... paradoxically in SNK games. The advantage of the LS32 or 56 is greater - in both: shmups and fighting games. In games that require an IAD, dash, it's a bad choice. On shmups it has fast engage, but the throw itself is similar to the LS32 and doesn't do much. Throw and dynamics are more important for speed than engagement itself. Nobody really plays on the swich plunger... maybe 10% of players use this technique.
that's why suzo/mag stick gives an advantage, although it works horribly in the first touch (complete opposite situation).

Smooth movement can also suppress the feeling of stiffness, resulting in a stronger "pull" of direction. Theoretically, the joystick does not cause this (only the player), but it does happen.
The AES joystick is closer to the LS32 and LS30 (it's a hybrid). nothing works like the LS40.

[Rastan78]

LS-40 was the first joystick Japanese joystick I ever bought and used. It's good but once I got an LS-32 I just stuck with that and never looked back. I think it has that perfect balance between having just enough dead zone to forgive slightly sloppy inputs while still being snappy. Also prefer the lower profile shaft and bare metal lever. The balltop sits a few mm lower than the LS-40. IMO the lever pop shouldn't be an issue and is just a sign you are playing with too much force against the gate.

I'm sort of surprised so many western shmup players prefer LS-56. I thought it was supposed to be sort of a low budget compact alternative to the JLF. It goes for about the equivalent of 12 USD in Japan. Not dismissing the 56 out of hand. Of course it's a good stick. Just didn't see a reason to prefer it over the 32. And interesting that it seems popular in the West but is almost disregarded in Japan for STG. Maybe Japanese players just blindly accept the common knowledge that STG = LS-32 without experimentation?

Also speaking of the 40, Anyone have impressions of the silent LSQ-40 or the Nobi levers which are more or less souped up LS-40s? Curious about them, but they're a bit pricy to just randomly buy on a whim to try them out.

I'm curious how the non spinning shaft of the Nobi would feel in shmups. And is a spinning joystick on most typical designs by choice and purpose? Or is it simply that machining locking tabs to prevent the shaft from spinning was cost prohibitive?

[kowal]

zippy China copy ls32 has no popup, but have longer shaft. Optimal combination is a shaft from the original ls32 and better microswitches used (sometimes square gate too) on zippy base. It has no flaws

[Rastan78]

zippy China copy ls32 has no popup, but have longer shaft. Optimal combination is a shaft from the original ls32 and better microswitches used (sometimes square gate too) on zippy base. It has no flaws

Interesting I never would've thought of that. When I had some Zippys I thought they felt really bad. (got them for free somehow can't even remember why). Maybe the biggest problem is just the microswitches?

Seems they use a little cheaper feeling plastic, but not like authentic Seimitsu's last forever anyway. Once I bought what you call almost call an antique Seimitsu SF2 2L12B panel so I could refurbish the panel. The original LS-32s had likely survived 1000s of hours of actual arcade use. You would not believe how far the square gate shape had been worn away. They had become a completely new shape and where throwing a hadoken would rub the gate the square was scooped out and now totally round. Also the actuators were scooped out where they rub the gate and worn down to nubs lol.

[Swevicus]

Replace the Zippy microswitches as soon as you can (the tabs break off too easily in my personal experience). I'm still doing further testing with the LS-40 (01) with my C64 and Amiga, and then I'll pit it against the 32 to see which one is the king.

[bigbadboaz]

The original LS-32s had likely survived 1000s of hours of actual arcade use. You would not believe how far the square gate shape had been worn away. They had become a completely new shape

Did the joysticks actually perform in this condition?

[Rastan78]

I didn't actually hook them up to test since I was just after the steel panel. I imagine they would still work decently as long as the microswitches were OK.

On the LS-32 you have that metal plate that the square restrictor gate attaches to. In theory you could grind the square gate away all the way up to the metal and then be left with a giant circle gate. It would still operate in some capacity even then i guess. That's pretty much what had happened to what you could call the hadoken zone on these (opposite corner on 1 and 2P sides).Though I can't remember if they were hitting metal yet or not. I imagine the metal plate would shred the actuator quite quickly. The thicker part of the actuator that hits the micros doesn't wear nearly as much as the part that rides the gate.

[Sampdoriano]

Up until very recently I too was disappointed with the LS-40 in fact it was easily my least favourite stick. My long time favourite being the LS-32 which I consider a great all rounder althought this has recently been replaced as my favourite by the LS-62 which in my humble opinion is an even better all rounder albeit a bit on the short side. Then it would be the LS-56 which is not only great for shooters but fairly decent for fighters especially older/retro fighters like the Vampire/Darkstalkers series. Below them I would put a modded JLF (by modded I mean medium spring modded/kowal acutator & octogated) which IMHO is good alternative to the LS-32/LS-62 if you need an all rounder but are restricted by a shallow mounting depth in your arcade stick case. After this I would put a stock JLF which I consider great for modern fighters SFIV onwards but rubbish for retro fighters &/or any SHMUP. Then at rock bottom I used to put the LS-40 for I found it far too unforgiving for any kind of fighting game (retro or modern) and only marginally better for shooting games.

However after a long hiatus I recently got back in to arcade stick gaming and discovered that Seimitsu have recently released a bullet top handle and on a whim bought one to attach to my LS-62 and it improved an already great stick so I bought a few more. With the LS-32 it worked well/improved it a bit, with the LS-56 it was a disaster made it worse so I reverted to the trusty ball top. But then I attached one to my neglected LS-40 and the difference was like night & day! For fighting games the improvement was only minor but for shooters the improvement for me at least has been immense. So much so that the LS-40 has gone from being my least favourite to my joint 2nd or 3rd fave and now I honestly can't decide which stick I prefer for SHMUPs between it and the LS-56 (they're both equally great).

So I would say if like me you've got a LS-40 gathering dust that you've been seriously disappointed with especially when you consider it's steller reputation as the original SNK/KOF stick. Before uninstalling or even throwing it away give it one last chance with one of these Seimitsu "Bullet" Handles. I'm not sure if it's the handle or if it is me or perhaps a combination of both but it's transformed my LS-40 and my opinion of it. With postage one will set you back about £15 (I think they're about £11 each) plus being Seimitsu they come in both solid/bubble and even keiko colours. Give it a go you might be surprised? I know I was .

[D]

Tried the bullet top yesterday for the first time and with the LS-40 and yes. It does work better for me (mediocre/average player) Probably does not improve for expert players, but for me it improved and was thus more fun.

I feel like I have more control especially in panic situations
They do look kind of retarded compared to the beautiful aesthetics of a normal round ball top.

Perhaps it is just the excitement of a kinda new way of playing which then excites me and makes me play better. On the other hand it's like a best of both world hybrid of a batt top and a ball top.

For now I fully recommend an LS-40 with a Seimitsu bullet top.
Stupid name, but kinda cool at the same time caus' yeah 'bullet'
I really like Seimitsu's clear shaft cover and clear dust cover.

[marus]

I fitted my LS-40 with a LS-32 restrictor gate. It reduces the throw of the LS-40 slightly, which imo makes it feel more inline with the already short engage. That setup is my favorite stick for shmups.

That said, between the Sanwa and Seimitsu levers I think you'd be hard pressed to say objectively that any one is better than another. They're all similar and well made enough that a lot of it is just personal preference. I do think it's worth trying out different levers to see what you like, but once you find a setup you're comfortable with I think it's best just to stick with that and spend your time getting familiar with it, rather than constantly changing out your setup.