M2 Toaplan collection

[kid aphex]

I'm not sure if this requires its own thread since (unfortunately) everything M2 is ending up in this junk thread lately, but
Apparently M2 acquired the rights to PC engine games.

https://www.famitsu.com/news/202307/21310421.html

Translated from a tweet:

It is clear that the rights of all game software for the PC engine owned by Lightweight have been transferred to M2

The rights to all game software for #PCエンジン released by NEC Avenue, then owned by Kabushiki Kaisha Interchannel, and finally transferred to Lightweight were transferred.

and M2's japanese press release regarding:

https://www.mtwo.co.jp/blog/2023/07/21/pr230721/

[Bassa-Bassa]

I'm not sure if this requires its own thread since (unfortunately) everything M2 is ending up in this junk thread lately, but
Apparently M2 acquired the rights to PC engine games.

https://www.famitsu.com/news/202307/21310421.html

Translated from a tweet:

It is clear that the rights of all game software for the PC engine owned by Lightweight have been transferred to M2

The rights to all game software for #PCエンジン released by NEC Avenue, then owned by Kabushiki Kaisha Interchannel, and finally transferred to Lightweight were transferred.

and M2's japanese press release regarding:

https://www.mtwo.co.jp/blog/2023/07/21/pr230721/

I indeed mentioned that a couple of posts above.

[Steven]

Here's some more stuff that is interesting. This is from the Genesis Mini 2 trailer:

Spoiler

"Masaya's remake of Toaplan's shoot 'em up". Masaya's remake of Toaplan's game, not Toaplan's remake of their own game.

I'm going to ask a few people about this MD version when I get a chance. I have a feeling that Toaplan did in fact make it, but it's weird that it's typically advertised as NCS Masaya's game or whatever beyond being the publisher.

I'm also still uncertain about the fact that it plays completely differently from the arcade version, as Toaplan generally preferred to have their in-house MD versions be as close to the arcade versions as possible. All home console games that Toaplan made themselves were made only for Mega Drive, and those were only Tatsujin, Zero Wing, Same! Same! Same!, Daisenpuu, and maybe/probably Hellfire. All others were outsourced. Hellfire is an oddity given that the rest are so accurate to the arcade versions given the limits of the console while Hellfire's gameplay is so different from the arcade version.

Too bad the MD Dash Yarou got cancelled; that was being made by Ichikawa-san, who made Slap Fight MD. I asked him about it a few months ago and he said it was really good, very accurate to the arcade version, and almost finished when it was cancelled. He doesn't have the data anymore, either, so it's a lost game, which makes me very sad.

I'm not sure if this requires its own thread since (unfortunately) everything M2 is ending up in this junk thread lately

No Toaplan thread is junk unless it's a thread about Toaplan being bad or something.

[kid aphex]

I indeed mentioned that a couple of posts above.

Oh yeah, whoops
Well, hopefully my post will alert those who also didn't notice

I tend to skip huge swaths of the thread when BIL posts...

[Bassa-Bassa]

^No prob!

Here's some more stuff that is interesting. This is from the Genesis Mini 2 trailer:

Spoiler

"Masaya's remake of Toaplan's shoot 'em up". Masaya's remake of Toaplan's game, not Toaplan's remake of their own game.

The game in fact in its MD iteration belonged to NCS/Masaya, no matter who developed it. Pretty sure the US publisher didn't even know the trivia, anyway.

[BIL]

All home console games that Toaplan made themselves were made only for Mega Drive, and those were only Tatsujin, Zero Wing, Same! Same! Same!, Daisenpuu, and maybe/probably Hellfire. All others were outsourced.

Do you know if Toaplan handled MD Snow Bros? That's the conventional wisdom, but I don't remember any official confirmation. I know Slap Fight and V-V were MNM and in-house Tengen Japan, respectively, the latter giving special thanks to Toaplan personnel in its credits.

Uemura does have a little message in MD Snow Bros' manual, but then so does Ed Logg in MD Gauntlet's, and that was M2's pro debut.

Whatever the truth may be, it doesn't surprise me that Masaya get fan-credited for MD Hellfire, tbh. Those dudes had some beast hogs all their own BITD! Assault Suit Leynos, Gynoug, Assault Suits Valken, Der Langrisser, plus a bunch of other rad shit = 16BIT ELECTRIC SEX MACHINES

I tend to skip huge swaths of the thread when BIL posts...

I'm always tellin 'em: only you can stop junk threads!

[Steven]

All home console games that Toaplan made themselves were made only for Mega Drive, and those were only Tatsujin, Zero Wing, Same! Same! Same!, Daisenpuu, and maybe/probably Hellfire. All others were outsourced.

Do you know if Toaplan handled MD Snow Bros? That's the conventional wisdom, but I don't remember any official confirmation. I know Slap Fight and V-V were MNM and in-house Tengen Japan, respectively, the latter giving special thanks to Toaplan personnel in its credits.

...

Fuck, I knew I forgot something lol. I always forget that MD Snow Bros even exists. I'm not sure about that one. I'd have to check.

[SavagePencil]

Sega Retro claims Toaplan did the MD ver, but doesn’t cite a reference. Nothing conclusive on GDRI.

[Steven]

I checked out that letter from Uemura-san in the MD Snow Bros manual and it seems that Toaplan was the developer for that. Fuck, that means I have to get it now and it's one of the most expensive games on the system!

[BIL]

Thanks for the confirmation! It's been forever since I showed that letter to blackoak, but now you mention it, I think it's what clinched it for me a decade back. If it's any consolation, I can now confirm that Tengen's JP carts don't melt. (beware NTSCU Grind Stormer, put some time on it and you'll be left with Grilled Stilton )

As you might expect from a publisher who gave M2 their big break, and worked with Toaplan and MNM directly, Tengen's latter-day NTSCJ MD stuff is absolute quality across the board. Not just the ports themselves, but the manuals too; so many cute illustrations and liner notes, plus developer messages and PCB photography/specs. I consider them early forerunners to stuff like Rutubo's Saturn AGES, NOW's PS1 Namco Museums, and ofc M2 themselves' PS2 AGES 2500s. V-V aside - a scrappy runt was to be expected, it being a contemporary port - everything else is superb quasi-archival work.

[Steven]

It's amazing that they actually got MD V-V working as well as it does in the first place. The Saturn is capable of running that hardware at least partially through software emulation, but the MD really struggles in parts of the game. The music also sucks on MD, which is extremely disappointing considering how good V-V's (arcade) soundtrack is.

It's good that the Japanese carts don't die, though; if Slap Fight MD died on me I would be... rather displeased.

[Steven]

Know Your Hurtbox: Zero Wing Edition: https://youtu.be/Lr06ASXtoQ8

[BIL]

I'd almost wonder if they copied IREM's approach (in most R-Types, your hitbox is a tiny thread within the ship sprite, with enemies having larger hitboxes to compensate; saved on collision checking time, IIRC)

Digging the emphasis on high-speed macro in these games. Particularly in Hellfire, with its station wagon hitbox, and lack of bullet-blocking Options/snatched enemies, it feels absolutely imperative to haul ass. Been getting some interesting results sticking to four-way and MetalBlacking it... at moderate close range, there's a similar Aura effect letting you kill stuff anywhere in your proximity; your hitbox is way bigger than MB's, but then you're a lot quicker than in that game.

[Steven]

This also says something about the accuracy of the hurtbox/hitbox viewer thing in the Bitwave versions.

This doesn't exactly look accurate to reality, unless it only applies to enemy shots and not terrain.


For Zero Wing terrain collision, if your homing shot thingy doesn't hit the terrain when it fires directly forward from the ZIG, you should be okay to go forward and not die. No promises~ Haven't tested it with other weapons, either, because the other two are bad. Also haven't tested it with the super huge shot, although it's easy enough to test now that we have Arcade Challenge mode and can give it to ourselves to test.

[apatheticTurd]

Got the Switch version yesterday and I am very pleased to see M2 is finally nailing these Supereasy modes. For those not aware, Supereasy has this hidden mechanic where if you survive for long enough, the difficulty will eventually shoot up way past the Arcade version and you automatically get points just for surviving. It's more or less like the hidden max rank mode in the custom arrange mode of Shottriger's Battle Garegga except there's no hidden trigger beyond continued survival.

However, the implementation in the first few releases was less than ideal. In KT's case, you could only hit the danger zone once you grabbed the maximum number of bombs you could carry and as soon as you got hit, the game would go back to "so easy it's boring" mode for the next few minute until you could grab the next bomb. This made it very difficult to maintain the danger zone unless you're a superplay god, and Tiger Heli's and Flying Shark's implementation worked much of the same. Fire Shark's, however, did the much needed change of giving you more leeway: the decrease upon being hit was more gradual and it took sustained failure to go back to standard supereasy, and clawing your way back to the red zone was nowhere as tedious. This made for a funner, more intense arrange with a smoother skill curve.

I was anxious to see if this release would take after the older lamer implementation or the better Fire Shark version since the previous collection had both, but I am happy to report both games here take the lessons learned from Fire Shark. Zero Wing's is especially interesting because it takes the capture mechanic and turn it from something superfluous into something vital. The bomb item is removed in this mode and captured enemies now act as an autobomb, setting off the bomb item's explosion when you get hit. Once the rank kicks in, capturing an enemy gives you a big boost in rank and trying to keep your prisonner alive is a big part of the scoring meta. There is however some slight jank, since many sequences were clearly not designed with keeping your prisonner alive in mind.

But yeah, message is, if one overlooked the Supereasy modes of the Toaplan Arcade Garage releases thinking they'd be like the braindead ones of the previous M2 Shottriger games, I strongly recommend you give them a look. You might be surprised!

[Steven]

Yeah, I was messing around with the Prisoner Bomber in Zero Wing's custom mode the other day. It makes the game really easy, but it's fun as hell to turn everything into an explosive. Hellfire Super Easy turned into Hellfire Super Hard when I played that, too. I doubt that many people will no miss Super Easy for Hellfire. Zero Wing might be possible with the Prisoner Bomber, but Hellfire is not likely, I think.

[jehu]

I've been doing a lot of Hellfire stage practice through the Challenge mode, mostly 5 and 6.

The Hellfire 2P gimp of the vertical and diagonal shot is killer. Perhaps it is more 'balanced' because it encourages use of all shot types and very sparing use of diagonal, but missing those shots is deadly in all the stickiest sequences in the final couple stages.

I haven't played a game that forces shot accuracy to this extent in a long time. You want to shoot down everything as it appears or you're going to get sprayed and have to maneuver your Battle Whale Gommorah through the chaos.

The later stages are very fun, but don't miss.

[Steven]

You often absolutely can't afford to miss when using the diagonal shot in 2P due to the reduced shot limit, and that alone makes me almost never want to use it in 2P, and the combination of that and chain death being disastrous in the 2P version makes me not want to play 2P at all. The 1P version really is so much better than the 2P version.

[wabbylegs]

I just got my clear in Zero Wing and I'm ready to move onto Hellfire. Why in the world did they go with the 2P version as the standard with gadgets? Zero Wing was pretty rough for recovery if you don't get the 10UP but I can't imagine how difficult Hellfire will be with respawns especially with its low amount of extends. These games are giving me huge Irem vibes most particularly R-Type where you feel it's necessary to no miss if you want to clear the first loop.

I might have missed it but did they specify why they went the 2P route?

[Steven]

I'm at stage 5 in Hellfire 1P, I think stage 4 in Hellfire 2P, stage 8 in Zero Wing 2P, and no missed Zero Wing 1P. How is everyone else doing so far?

[BIL]

Just hit AC Hellfire 1P (I would have no other P!)'s fifth stage last night, after a launch week's credit-feeding AC Horror Story Version B. This set owns. I'm so glad M2 took their time with this series... it'd be so easy to jump straight to the more widely-acclaimed stuff. Honestly, with Hishouzame and SameSame in the bag, I was kinda at the top of the rollercoaster anyway (before that, was living in withering horror of TAGv1 being Shooting Battle all over again ). I love seeing the deep cuts given the same respect at the marquee names, whatever the genre or medium.

AC Fish Heads are some real pricks! Pretty intense, and as you say they don't die quick either. I don't have a solid pattern yet, other than "move in same direction, and don't get MOUF-2-MOUFed," but it's early days; not doing any serious drilling-down, besides my usual Gradius V-bred indulgence of marking a savestate after each no-missed stage.

Also, I was wondering who these ugly motherfuckers were reminding me of!

Mad object/positional deja-vu!

Spoiler

Spoiler

A far less harrowing affair in Tamtex/IREM's game, ofc! I almost wonder if it was a deliberate reference. MS is gamecenter hardcore to the bone, and there's R-Type's famous battleships parked right there in the BG (which is partially why I consider it a stealth Bydo episode ).

Dunno if I'll ever bother with HF2P for solo play (ROCKIN w/MUH BROS is another matter ofc *hic*). 1P's combination of murderface-strict hitbox and patterns with SMOKESTACK LIGHTNIN speed n' feelgood X-SHAPE SHOT is too integral; especially arriving from MD to the AC's trimmed-down arsenal. Top Gun AF, raking through zako lines as they haplessly blast at the thin air you once occupied. Where HFMD is a first-class archetypally gadget-happy early 90s hori, HFAC is pour Le Samourai.

Got a kick out of this, browsing the onboard manual. AYB = Big In Japan confirmed yet again!

Spoiler

also HORA SUTORI Was genuinely surprised to see the Taito logo pop up, while letting the attract demos run (to capture that classically infernal logo). Always thought they'd published 2P only, bit like handling Double Dragon's overseas release for Technos. It makes this and MegaBlast's unlikely reunion (1989/2023) all the more satisfying. Was Megablast the horizontal Fighting Hawk all this time?

I warmed up to the collection's title a lot; I'd have gone with ZeroFire over HellWing too, now. (not the least for the latter being a bit uncomfortably near Hedwig, of The Angry Inch) Has to be CamelCased+compound, though. "Zero Fire" sounds like a putdown, no fire whatosever! But "ZEROFIRE" sounds like a face-breaking KOF98 super, complete with "truckload of TNT hit by a cruise missile" sound effect.



Somehow never noticed the hinotori! Bwark! That's the "wing" motif handled. <3

[Steven]

I was so excited about playing this release that I forgot to go find some celebratory music, so here is the relatively new U-Brand live arrange of Last Dance from Hellfire https://youtu.be/_3oyqo4_qk4?t=1052
Maybe not quite gamushara, but still on fire.

So, fish heads. Those bastards will beat the crap out of you in the arcade version, and being powered up is extremely helpful. My current fish head strategy is to no miss to the fish heads, then pointblank the bottom left one immediately to kill it fast, and then kill the rest. It gets way easier once you kill the first one. Here it is, autofire not included~ https://youtu.be/mvds6qng44I

This strategy, along with the specific positioning I use in the first 15 seconds of the fight or so, is very consistent, so try it if it helps. You'll have to be very quick with the weapon changing to take advantage of this strategy, but it does work.

Dunno if I'll ever bother with HF2P for solo play (ROCKIN w/MUH BROS is another matter ofc *hic*). 1P's combination of murderface-strict hitbox and patterns with SMOKESTACK LIGHTNIN speed n' feelgood X-SHAPE SHOT is too integral; especially arriving from MD to the AC's trimmed-down arsenal. Top Gun AF, raking through zako lines as they haplessly blast at the thin air you once occupied. Where HFMD is a first-class archetypally gadget-happy early 90s hori, HFAC is pour Le Samourai.

There is a purity to 1P Hellfire that none of the other versions have, including the 2P version, and definitely not the MD version. The shot limit on the vertical and especially the diagonal shot in 2P really does hurt the game a lot. It's got some empty spots where nothing is happening, but outside of those parts, the game in general is very kinetic and it's a lot of fun to play the game at max speed. I guess most people only take one speed for both Hellfire and Zero Wing, but I generally prefer a fast ship and the first time I accidentally took more than one speed in Hellfire I instantly liked it a lot more. That was at the location test for this release that M2 did a few months ago. I think that was the first time that I realized that there might be a lot of fun hidden in Hellfire.

I only take two speeds in Zero Wing, though. Pleiades and Barricade Zone at max speed are both ultra scary, and not because of the enemies.

Got a kick out of this, browsing the onboard manual. AYB = Big In Japan confirmed yet again!

Yep, it's definitely real here lol. You'd think the opposite would be true, but it's really a global thing.

Somehow never noticed the hinotori! Bwark! That's the "wing" motif handled. <3

Yeah, that's been there since 1989. I didn't notice it until maybe a year ago or so, but I can't unsee it now.

[BIL]

Somehow never noticed the hinotori! Bwark! That's the "wing" motif handled. <3

Yeah, that's been there since 1989. I didn't notice it until maybe a year ago or so, but I can't unsee it now.

Ahaha, holy shit! I can't believe I never noticed that... and now it takes on new meaning, with the phoenix motif! Aight I concede, ZeroFire is genius.

Fish Head assassination strat sounding legit; actually that takes me back to another Metal Storm bugbear (I'm half-convinced Tamtex really did crib off Toaplan, they most definitely knew their business). Three heads are better than four. EDIT: Just watched, damn! Efficiently effective and looks cool, too!

Just got the st5 nomiss and parked it at st6. Sweet Jebus, that's a fair bit trickier than the MD one I recall! Took out the gunwall blind, that was harrowing when I realised it wasn't gonna let me camp up top, and with no search buddy or GodLaz0r! Then again, I didn't twig you can speedkill the crawler tanks until I'd eaten like five consecutive wallbump deaths.

In Side Drive was always one of my archetypal Toaplan BGMs, such a stately bop. I like it a bit better here, even, that PCB tone (especially the "Blue Monday"-esque bassline that kicks in during the flute section) is too goddamn good.

I was so excited about playing this release that I forgot to go find some celebratory music, so here is the relatively new U-Brand live arrange of Last Dance from Hellfire https://youtu.be/_3oyqo4_qk4?t=1052
Maybe not quite gamushara, but still on fire.

Ha, that's exactly the swing band sound I was thinking of, as the BGM came on and I booked it. It's been fascinating revisiting these OSTs with a much clearer idea of Uemura and co's influences and tastes. The fondness he's mentioned for darker-hued folk and rock from Japan and Europe, respectively, is really evident too, in his chording and tone choices. Among late 80s arcade OSTs, his and Yuge's stuff exudes a subtle earth n' gunmetal forlornness, something I don't often get from their first-rate contemporaries like cheery Konami, eccentric Taito, or even IREM, who tended towards horror aesthetics on M72, yet typically employed a clarion-bright sound. At the same time, ala Go Sato's Raiden II, you can tell these guys are rockers at heart, they know how to write catchy. It's all aged sublimely well imo, as has the unvarnished look of their military STGs.

It's probably the Gun.Smoke influence, but I went straight in at max speed in Hellfire. It's been long enough that I can't recall if that's how I play the MD one... perhaps not, since you've got much greater range there via its new weapons. Regardless, as with G.S, a big hitbox and reliance on strafing is a job for high speed imo. Probably recalling ol' DEL's advice on Tatsujin being best played at max speed, too, although IIRC that was also for score, from excess speedups.

[Sumez]

Picked up my copy today. Is there no printed "magazine" to go with this one, or did I get shafted by Yahoo?

[BIL]

st6 nomiss get. "Uemura Racing Co." Surprised they didn't work that into the cover illustration, haha.

Speaking of which, viewing it in detail, I see some of Yuji Kaida's old mastery now. The ships look unnaturally clean and plastic toy-ish, at low res (Kaida having great form in illustrating toy/model boxes, ofc!). On closer inspection, there's a nice layer of space dust on 'em, plus lots of his trademark fine-brushed detail - "DO NOT STEP" "WARNING" decals all over the shop. Still not one of the man's great works (cf Garegga, Whip Rush, Daimakaimura), but combined with that sublime logo, very acceptable.

[jehu]

On Future Releases and the DLC Problem:

Now that the release is here, it's pretty clear that Hellfire/Zero Wing were chosen due to the abundance of ports they could offer for DLC. Justifies the departure from the initial plan to do Tatsujin or OutZone.

Where do they go from here? What other games in their catalogue can justify the DLC model that they've followed for the first three releases? From a business point of view, this is certainly a concern for them - and might help us guess what the next offering might be.

Outzone/FixEight have no console ports, so I'd be surprised to see that next. Truxton has plenty, but Tatsujin Ou has none (assuming Marty is off the table). V-V and Slap Fight have their solid Mega Drive ports. Daisenpuu has a solid lineup, but Vimana has nothing. Batsugun and Dogyuun, of course, have nothing.

I guess they could pack in valuable non-STGs to collections with few console ports. A Outzone / FixEight combo with Snow Bros. Arcade/Famicom/Mega Drive would be a solid pack despite no ports for the main games. A Tatsujin / Ou / Dash Yarou would probably work pretty well, too. In fact, my bet is for this combo to be next.

Truly hoping they keep the series alive. I was a little skeptical about this release, but now that it's in my hands I absolutely love it.

On the Magazine:

It's disappointing that there isn't one for this release. I like the others quite a bit.

Hellfire Progress:

Because Hellfire 2P has been canonized in this release, I'm going for the clear there first. No gadgets or any of the interesting firing modes are available for 1P, so I'm just biting the bullet and learning. It's growing on me, and I have started to like the balance in shot types. Still miss checkpoints. I've no-missed each stage individually and have my routes, but need to tighten things up before going for full runs.

Chain deaths are brutal in 2P. The only 'recovery strategy' is to shoot power-up pods with rear shot to get the extra drops (is this widely known?) and pray.

My problem areas are: the fish-spawning water sequence, fish-head boss, stage five enemy-spawning tubes, end of stage five fast cube sequence, a couple very specific moments w/ battleships in stage six.

Normally I don't report clears, but I'll tune back in if I get this one in the next couple weeks. Having a blast with it, in any case.

[Martinov]

Do I redeem the DLC codes on a Japanese account, or will any region do?

[BurlyHeart]

Do I redeem the DLC codes on a Japanese account, or will any region do?

Redeem on Japan PSN only, and then can play on any account using the same system.

[professor ganson]

Yikes, those fishheads look like a problem. Nice solution in the video, Stephen. How far into the game before you hit this sort of roadblock? Seems pretty tough!

[Ghegs]

Got mine in the post the other day. Guess I accidentally picked some good option in Amazon, since I got an alternative cover and a meme-sticker included:

Spoiler

I wonder if I can just slip the alternative cover inside the case with the one already there, bit annoying to store otherwise.

Spent an hour and a half with the collection, mostly testing out Hellfire's different versions. I think previously I've only played it a bit on one of the Mega Drive Mini consoles, but generally I always dig it with shmups allow for multi-directional firing, with the stage design reflecting that. I like it. I wish there was a special arrange mode where you could map each shot type to its own button on the controller, that'd be cool.

Horror Story seems pretty cool too, though it's a bit different from what I thought it'd be.