Batsugun S-Tribute

[doodledude]

My game shipped and should arrive tomorrow.

Is anyone risking getting this besides me? I am especially curious about the PC version's lag, but I really don't feel like buying a second copy since I don't expect this to perform well.

I've ordered a PS4 copy from Amazon Japan but don't expect to receive it till end of next week as I'm in the UK

[Steven]

At least I'm not alone~

So here is what I predict will happen:

Game releases. Everyone says "this is actually not too bad! City Connection actually managed to do something right for once!"

Someone lag tests the game, discovers that it has 8 frames of lag on Switch, 6 on PS4, and 5 on PC. Everyone says "fuck Shitty Connection! Never buying any of their shit ever again!" and then proceeds to instantly preorder City Connection's next CAVE release, which will turn out to not be DonPachi, DoDonPachi, or Saidaioujou.

Bitwave releases Batsugun arcade version later this year on PC. Sound emulation is completely broken, enemies don't spawn properly, and the game crashes when you 1CC it, but it has 2~3 frames of lag.

Somewhere around 2026, M2 releases Batsugun on the now-discontinued PS4 and Switch and we wonder why we ever bothered with these other releases at all.

Hopefully I am wrong about all of this, but we'll see. Well, except for buying City Connection's CAVE stuff, as those are apparently better than the PCBs or something like that, so yeah, buying those is good, especially since CAVE is on the verge of bankruptcy and needs all of the money it can get.

[Bassa-Bassa]

Imagine that the next Saturn Tribute release is indeed a DP+DDP pack, given the relationship between both companies - when these two get at least freaking new home versions after all this time, they happen to be poor emulations of the flawed SAT versions. Try to picture this scenario where a decent developer currently interested in porting the arcade originals just give up because they understand half the sales already stolen by this release. It's so plausible you can touch it.

[BIL]

Saw this on JPSN and went "eww" then saw this:



right next to it and went HOO HOO HOO Time 2 enjoy sterling work @ fair & reasonable price! Godspeed Steven, I hope it is tolerable like LS, and not whatever the fuck that Success Shitribute was 3;

[Steven]

Well, I will see soon enough. It's 10% off on Steam, which is okay, I guess. I might actually buy it on Steam if it's good on PS4, but I'll have to wait for it to actually get here.

Spoiler

Please don't be shit please don't be shit please don't be shit please don't be shit please don't be shit please don't be shit please don't be shit please don't be shit please don't be shit PLEASE DON'T BE SHIT...!!!

[DenimDemon]

Yeah I’m risking. Bought it on Switch

[BEAMLORD]

Imagine that the next Saturn Tribute release is indeed a DP+DDP pack, given the relationship between both companies - when these two get at least freaking new home versions after all this time, they happen to be poor emulations of the flawed SAT versions. Try to picture this scenario where a decent developer currently interested in porting the arcade originals just give up because they understand half the sales already stolen by this release. It's so plausible you can touch it.

Glad I didn't read this before bedtime. You're giving Dean Koontz a run for his money with this bone-chiller!

[Jonpachi]

Yeah I’m risking. Bought it on Switch

I mean, it's Batsugun for $30 and my Saturn is in storage. No, it's not ok that it's gonna have 5+ frames of lag no matter what, but I can't ignore this release.

Got the regular PS4 version on the way, though I'll be honest I had a hard time not picking up that Asian special edition with the cassette tape.

[Dazzymank]

Pre-ordered the Japan version off switch store last week. will be getting on PS4 as it's my all time favourite game in 45yes. sold my Saturn collection so glad to not go mame or v mini cab

[dojo_b]

Purchased on Steam, refund requested after 15 minutes. [Edit: see convo below, I was being stupid] Felt like sludge on my powerful PC. [edit: that's because I had inadvertently activated slow mode, which is a thing! hey CC, probably should make it slightly more evident to new players so they don't get confused and reject your game outright]

[I'm tentatively satisfied with the port now, not gonna assess lag]

[Loom1es]

The Steam version plays okay, v-sync off is the best option. The Retroarch version feels snappier for sure. The sound seems off to me with very low volume sound effects, the music drowns out the sound effects quite a bit.

I cancelled my PS4 pre order from Amazon JP and from what i've played on pc i feel i made the right decision. The PS4 latency will undoubtedly be higher than the pc version and the pc version is what i would say is my acceptable limit.

[Serge.EXE]

Purchased on Steam, refund requested after 15 minutes.

Felt like sludge on my powerful PC. I don't mean lag, I mean the whole game is too slow. I checked against an actual Saturn video and metronome.

Of course this issue may not come up for you (especially on console), and I understand PC ports are harder to pull off due to the hardware variety. But it's not promising given CC's already-dodgy reputation, so definitely try immediately if you do buy on Steam.

I hate to ask a potentially silly question, but did you accidentally turn on Slow Mode?

[dojo_b]

No, that's a good question, and I don't know the answer. Didn't realize there was a slow mode! I'll try again tonight---hoping to be wrong, since I quite wanted to play the game.

[BIL]

At least I'm not alone~

So here is what I predict will happen:

Game releases. Everyone says "this is actually not too bad! City Connection actually managed to do something right for once!"

Someone lag tests the game, discovers that it has 8 frames of lag on Switch, 6 on PS4, and 5 on PC. Everyone says "fuck Shitty Connection! Never buying any of their shit ever again!" and then proceeds to instantly preorder City Connection's next CAVE release, which will turn out to not be DonPachi, DoDonPachi, or Saidaioujou.

Bitwave releases Batsugun arcade version later this year on PC. Sound emulation is completely broken, enemies don't spawn properly, and the game crashes when you 1CC it, but it has 2~3 frames of lag.

Somewhere around 2026, M2 releases Batsugun on the now-discontinued PS4 and Switch and we wonder why we ever bothered with these other releases at all.

Hopefully I am wrong about all of this, but we'll see. Well, except for buying City Connection's CAVE stuff, as those are apparently better than the PCBs or something like that, so yeah, buying those is good, especially since CAVE is on the verge of bankruptcy and needs all of the money it can get.

Amidst all this farce and woe, it was worth it just for this fiendish top-rope chair shot to the back of CC's dome and the followup to Bitwave's knee. These motherfuckers need paramedical attn stat! Oh shi - BAH GAWD, M2 IS DRIVING THE AMBULANCE! A DOUBLE BEDPAN DDT OFF THE AMBULANCE ROOF! NAW, DON'T REVERSE OVER THEY LEGS M2, THAT'S JUST - BAHHH GAWWWWWWWW

(you can tell it's a dream - not even good ol' JR would object to these assclowns getting retired off the face of the planet if it guaranteed BatsuGyuun ;3)

[Bassa-Bassa]

Imagine that the next Saturn Tribute release is indeed a DP+DDP pack, given the relationship between both companies - when these two get at least freaking new home versions after all this time, they happen to be poor emulations of the flawed SAT versions. Try to picture this scenario where a decent developer currently interested in porting the arcade originals just give up because they understand half the sales already stolen by this release. It's so plausible you can touch it.

Glad I didn't read this before bedtime. You're giving Dean Koontz a run for his money with this bone-chiller!

And that's skipping the part that it'd have really been the very last chance to ever get reasonably accurate home ports of those since there's this other scenario where Cave's ultimately selling all their videogame IPs to the Embracer empire, which wants to keep their Bitwave group occupied after they're done with Toaplan's list.

[DejahThoris]

Imagine that the next Saturn Tribute release is indeed a DP+DDP pack, given the relationship between both companies - when these two get at least freaking new home versions after all this time, they happen to be poor emulations of the flawed SAT versions. Try to picture this scenario where a decent developer currently interested in porting the arcade originals just give up because they understand half the sales already stolen by this release. It's so plausible you can touch it.

Imagine that they simply port the Saturn versions, just to watch everyone cry.

[dojo_b]

Thanks Serge, and sorry CC, I was absolutely just bumbling into Slow mode. The port now seems adequate to a novice eye. I'm not going to try to assess lag, don't much trust my own perceptions there. Still less can I speak to port faithfulness; I just know I'm having fun, as expected from MAME outings. Plus I gather Special Ver is just the sort of easygoing 1CC I'm a slut for, and unwilling to wait for M2's Mr. Right treatment.

While I'm here: City Connection, if you're reading this, please, why not bring Saturn exclusives people want, like Taromaru? Instead of these doubly-ported AC titles we settle for?

[Rastan78]

Imagine that they simply port the Saturn versions, just to watch everyone cry.

With a new port of the Instant Brain DDP port as retailer specific pre-order only DLC

[Bassa-Bassa]

Imagine that the next Saturn Tribute release is indeed a DP+DDP pack, given the relationship between both companies - when these two get at least freaking new home versions after all this time, they happen to be poor emulations of the flawed SAT versions. Try to picture this scenario where a decent developer currently interested in porting the arcade originals just give up because they understand half the sales already stolen by this release. It's so plausible you can touch it.

Imagine that they simply port the Saturn versions, just to watch everyone cry.

Yeah, that's precisely what I was saying (unless you mean that particular purpose, which I'm not seeing since they at this point are aware mostly everyone in the end, even those knowing well this company's manners as this thread shows, still gives them money for their tribute things instead of really crying and trying to have them dead the sooner the better.)

While I'm here: City Connection, if you're reading this, please, why not bring Saturn exclusives people want, like Taromaru? Instead of these doubly-ported AC titles we settle for?

Taromaru is only (slightly) popular in the West (and belongs to a Western company, which I guess would make the deal a bit harder to consider). Japan wants the RPGs and the arcade ports for being arcade games. This series is not actually serving as a "tribute" to the Saturn, but to arcade classics which they just didn't bother to emulate particularly when they have a ready-made global solution.

[Steven]

Game get. Well, I ordered Batsugun Saturn Tribute Boosted, but what I got was apparently Batsugun Akai Katana SpSaturn Tribute Boosted instead.

Spoiler

Unfortunately this doesn't have Akai Katana on the disc.

Uh, so good news is that I as an individual human being find the lag to be nonexistant, which means it's probably got 6~7 frames, which I am not capable of detecting, so it could be shit for all I know, but I literally can't tell.

It also lets you have CUSTOM MUSIC. You can choose original, arranged, PCB, or Saturn Tribute Arranged separately on a per-stage and per-boss basis, which is fucking awesome.

Separate buttons for 15, 20, and 30Hz autofire. Arcade screen size can be rotated, but only in one direction, so if your monitor is upside down for whatever reason, it's not going to work... but why the fuck is your monitor upside down anyway?

It also lets you use the Batsugun Special hurtbox size in regular Batsugun. Cool, I guess.

Training mode is also here! Hell yes! It's not super detailed or whatever, but it is here, which is excellent.

Also cool: the art on the cover of the book was done by Toaplan's art goddess Hayashi Miho. One more thing I have to get her to sign! Haven't read it yet, but the page count is less than I was hoping for, not that I was really expecting much. This book is the primary reason that I bought this, so yeah.

Bad stuff: improper scaling. It has an anti-aliasing thing, which more or less fixes improper pixel sizing, but it just makes the game look blurry. After playing so many ACA games it doesn't really piss me off the way it used to, but holy fuck PLEASE GIVE OPTIONS FOR PROPER FUCKING SCALING OR INTERPOLATION ON ALL 2D GAMES YOU USELESS ASSHOLES. That's you, too, Hamster! Even you don't escape my anger this time!

You also can't turn off the fucking wallpaper. If there is one thing I hate more than not having proper fucking scaling options, it's not being able to get rid of whatever shitty wallpaper they plastered on the black nothingness to hide it, because I guess some people think that shit looks good for whatever reason (it doesn't). Fortunately the default one is pretty minimal, so I can sort of forgive them for this.

Finally, there are not one, not two, but three day-1 patches, bringing the game up to version 1.03 on launch day. Come on, get this shit right before you fucking ship it. The patch notes for all three updates are not very helpful, either; each simply says "improved stability and fixed bugs" or some vague shit.

That's pretty much all I have to say for now, but if you are considering getting this on PS4, I do not think I would consider it to be a waste of money!

It seems that the planned sequel for Batsugun was titled Batsugun 2 Dantotsu, and has a much larger cast, including cyborg Jeeno (edit: Joker Jun here officially states that Jeeno IS NOT THE PROTAGONIST IN OUT ZONE. Apparently Batsugun's director Tataka Yuuko really hated the idea of making him the protagonist of Out Zone, so Jeeno simply does the same type of stuff that the Out Zone guys do, but Jeeno is not actually a member of the mercenary group Out Zone). Beltiana is now Jeeno's navigator and is no longer a pilot. Alteeno is now an actual pilot instead of a mechanic flying a stolen ship. Olisis is no longer here, though there is a guy called J-B 4th who looks very familiar. Looks like they were also planning on expanding on the ship connection thing from Dogyuun!!, as well. I'll go through later and pull out all of the cool stuff, but for now I want to play the game.

[Jonpachi]

This series is not actually serving as a "tribute" to the Saturn, but to arcade classics which they just didn't bother to emulate particularly when they have a ready-made global solution.

Yes, this 100%. What's happening here is simply that the Saturn home ports are complete, ready-to-sell versions of the game already fitted with menus, options, modes, etc. If they did a new port of the arcade rom, they have to, well, do work and employ a UI artist, a FE Engineer, a Gameplay Balance Designer, etc. These are like bootleg Star Wars DVDs of the old LaserDisc prints.

[BIL]

Cheers Steven! That sounds about what I was expecting, based on CC's Layer Section (PS4).

A decent rule of thumb appears to be, if the Saturn original was exceptionally sharp, the CC reheat will be tolerable. If the Saturn one had noticeable input delay (Success trio), CC will deliver a sludgefest. Not great, but at least if Bassa-Bassa's nightmare future does come to pass, some of these S-Tributes will be mediocre as opposed to unplayable.

I'm still gonna wait it out, personally. Saturn ver isn't going anywhere, and I've got too many goddamn games anyway. I tend to double dip only with trustworthy devs like M2 and Hamster, where I know the convenience of a PS4 copy (and almost certainly a more accurate translation) will outweigh the .5f or whatever extra latency.

[Steven]

Yeah sure, no problem.

I mainly got this for the book, and after looking through it a little, the book definitely does not disappoint, but it's nice that the game is highly playable, at least to me. I might actually get this on PC and play it there, although it's definitely a waste of money to buy a game that I already have.

It was honestly worth it just for the information on Dantotsu. lol J-B 4th

BTW the new Boosted arranged soundtrack is really quiet for some reason. Not sure what is up with that.

Actually, no, it's just everything. The whole game is quiet. How odd.

[Marc]

So just to confirm before I order, does this have a proper Yoko mode, or am I still stuck with a cropped screen? Cheers.

[BIL]

It was honestly worth it just for the information on Dantotsu. lol J-B 4th

Cancelled ESPRade Psi Character J-B 1th 3;

Spoiler

The Theme Of J-B 1th

[Steven]

So just to confirm before I order, does this have a proper Yoko mode, or am I still stuck with a cropped screen? Cheers.

Not sure exactly what you are looking for, but it has this, where you can play it with altered controls and it plays like a regular horizontal game:

Spoiler

It was honestly worth it just for the information on Dantotsu. lol J-B 4th

Cancelled ESPRade Psi Character J-B 1th 3;

Spoiler

The Theme Of J-B 1th

lol. I wonder if they will patch in J-B 1th on the game's 2th anniversary like R-Type Final 3 Evolved. They can be lazy and just reuse J-B 5th's sprite from ESP Ra.De. since J-B 4th looks basically identical. Nobody will ever know~

Bad photography, but there he is in the middle:

Spoiler

[cfx]

I think Marc was asking if there is a true yoko mode that retains the full 4:3 screen instead of cropping the top and bottom to makie it near square as it was on Saturn.
A video I posted here on some previous page appeared to show that it indeed has such a mode.

Wow, that character art looks so much like original Macross character design.

[Steven]

This is the most time I have spent with this game in my entire life. I credit fed my way through it twice last year on PCB, but that was pretty much it until today and I have questions.

1. Why the fuck are the stages like 30~45 seconds long and kind of... super boring, if I'm being honest?
2. Is it me or is Type-A kind of ultra terrible?
3. Is it me or is Type-C also kind of bad, but better than Type-A? My best score is with Type-C so far, though that might change with more practice.
4. Are PCB and Saturn scores comparable/interchangeable?
5. Type-C: pointblank with autofire or just hold the regular non-autofire shot button?

I still don't really get this game or its popularity at all.

I just encountered a weird sound. I am not sure if it's a glitch or not, but I don't think it's supposed to sound this way. I'll put the recording up soon so someone who knows the game better than I do can listen.

Alright, here it is: https://youtu.be/RPe8UiOnYkw

Right after I die it makes a weird sound. Is it supposed to do this, and does it do this on a real PCB and/or Saturn? I am guessing the answer is no.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

2. Is it me or is Type-A kind of ultra terrible?
3. Is it me or is Type-C also kind of bad, but better than Type-A? My best score is with Type-C so far, though that might change with more practice.
5. Type-C: pointblank with autofire or just hold the regular non-autofire shot button?

• Type A is one of the weakest shot types ever made in a shmup, particularly relative to Type B and Type C (to a lesser extent). Type A's shots look very cool at max power but they're dreadfully underpowered for how tanky some of the enemies are. Playing as Type A in Batsugun is playing in Hard Mode basically.

• Type C is quite decent, not overwhelmingly good at everything like Type B is, but it has a potent focused wave shot, piercing lasers, and spread attacks with a minor homing component for smaller enemies later on. Most of the time you want to use the concentrated wave shots, particularly on big enemies as the bonus damage from using the spread while pointblanking is not noteworthy compared to how much raw power the wave shot has. Also, a lot of enemies have fairly small hitboxes that mean most of the spread will miss. It's not as strong as Type B is, but Type C is nevertheless well balanced enough to be fun and usable.

• The main reason Type B is overwhelmingly powerful (one of the craziest shot types ever made) is that it eventually receives a strong focused laser that gets damage boosts from button mashing, a spreadshot that deals with smaller enemies, and a lock-on beam that allows you to hit enemies from anywhere on the screen. The damage isn't massive compared to the central beam, but it's still enough to make a difference. The only other shot type with the same crazy combination of advantages I can think of is Reco in Futari Black Label.

[Steven]

2. Is it me or is Type-A kind of ultra terrible?
3. Is it me or is Type-C also kind of bad, but better than Type-A? My best score is with Type-C so far, though that might change with more practice.
5. Type-C: pointblank with autofire or just hold the regular non-autofire shot button?

• Type A is one of the weakest shot types ever made in a shmup, particularly relative to Type B and Type C (to a lesser extent). Type A's shots look very cool at max power but they're dreadfully underpowered for how tanky some of the enemies are. Playing as Type A in Batsugun is playing in Hard Mode basically.

• Type C is quite decent, not overwhelmingly good at everything like Type B is, but it has a potent focused wave shot, piercing lasers, and spread attacks with a minor homing component for smaller enemies later on. Most of the time you want to use the concentrated wave shots, particularly on big enemies as the bonus damage from using the spread while pointblanking is not noteworthy compared to how much raw power the wave shot has. Also, a lot of enemies have fairly small hitboxes that mean most of the spread will miss. It's not as strong as Type B is, but Type C is nevertheless well balanced enough to be fun and usable.

• The main reason Type B is overwhelmingly powerful (one of the craziest shot types ever made) is that it eventually receives a strong focused laser that gets damage boosts from button mashing, a spreadshot that deals with smaller enemies, and a lock-on beam that allows you to hit enemies from anywhere on the screen. The damage isn't massive compared to the central beam, but it's still enough to make a difference. The only other shot type with the same crazy combination of advantages I can think of is Reco in Futari Black Label.

Cool, thanks. It seems that this game didn't escape the typical Toaplan weapon imbalance. If there is one negative aspect that multiple Toa shooters have in common, it's the unbalanced weapons, or ships in this case. Not much to do about it, I guess. I kind of like Type-C, but I'll mess around with B as well. The first time I played this game I was Olisis, now that I think about it.

I think the craziest shot I have ever seen is GRAND CROSS: ReNOVATION's Sun Blade, which is completely out of control. That shot does not give a fuck about anything; if it touches the Sun Blade, it dies, no matter what it is.