I think System 11 is an important forum...

[Redfox]

You know, I've lurked here for decades and officially posted for the first time a while back and I've always come to like and respect this place for all of everyone's immense stg insight and conversation. But it wasn't until a few days ago that it dawned onto me, this place is freaking major in the shmup universe. Outside of Japan possibly the epicenter of the shmup scene. This revelation came to me when the Embracer guy came on here and allayed everyone's fears over the Tatsujin buy out. Who the fuck are we to have a rep from an outfit worth over 3 billion USD come on here and calm us down? Then I gave it thought. This forum's members include YouTube influencers, console game develpoers, arcade game coders, music composers for stg games and even operators and the like. People from all over the world! What an august group of individuals you are! I'm proud to be a member of this forum and happy that someone off the street like me can join this place and mingle with some of the scene's best and brightest!

Thank you!

[DMC]

From RegalSin to Embracer: The heterogeneity of the system11 population.

It's one of the few discussion forums that survived the rise of modern social media. And it survived some challenging years for the genre itself. So hats off for the resilience.

[Sima Tuna]

There are few places on the internet where the merits of arcade game genres can be explored and discussed openly by people who play them.

[mirkvid]

Mostly lurking these days, but still visit daily after all these years. Awesome forum, and the main site is still great too. Where's Malc!?

[brokenhalo]

I think forums in general are important. Someone in a different thread pointed out that Reddit and Discord had sort of taken over, but they just aren't the same. Being able to start a thread and have interested parties come together to share knowledge, and have that knowledge stay available and able to be refreshed and expanded on for years to come is priceless, imo.

[Klatrymadon]

Mostly lurking these days, but still visit daily after all these years. Awesome forum, and the main site is still great too. Where's Malc!?

I always assumed he was some éminence grise - I joined not long after you and I don't think I've ever seen the big cheese post.

I agree that the place is important, warts and all, especially given the sheer volume of knowledge (relating not just to our genre but video games in general) which is increasingly squirrelled away in private Discords. Its relative openness and generosity in this sense needs protecting.

[To Far Away Times]

Yeah, we're a small community, but you do see a lot of western shmup devs pop up here.

Honestly, I think having the Shmup forum's approval goes a long way towards indie shmups getting noticed and getting better reviews and so on. It matters among a small niche.

Someone at IGN might not be able to tell the quality difference between Sine Mora or ZeroRanger, but we can.

[BEAMLORD]

System 11 - a great bunch of lads

[Jeneki]

I agree that forums like this are far easier to search and find info, because everything is usually in one place, even if the posts contained are spread out over several years.

But ... When I click on the stickied Threads of Excellence, the top link isn't Dick Stock. So this place isn't that great.

[donluca]

Someone in a different thread pointed out that Reddit and Discord had sort of taken over, but they just aren't the same.

I think that could have been me and it was my personal crusade against Discord for one simple reason: its contents are not indexed.

You write in a forum (or even on Reddit) and it gets indexed by Google, so if you share something useful, a poor soul looking for a solution might find your thread and he'll be extremely grateful for your post.

And yeah, it feels good seeing this website being kept alive and with good activity.

The Hardware section is truly a godsend and full of great projects and tips.

[Sumez]

There are few places on the internet where the merits of arcade game genres can be explored and discussed openly by people who play them.

I don't think this forum enjoys much of what OP praises it for anymore in this day and age - too many people have migrated to Discord and other fields, and the shmup chat nowadays is unfortunately severely lacking (even if it's still mostly on-point in regards to actual news in relation to ports, new releases and such).

But damn if it isn't impossibly difficult nowadays, to find like-minded people who appreciate classic and arcade-style action games for all the nuances in their gameplay and take pride in exploring both the merits of flawed games and the flaws of cherished ones. This place is a treasure for that subset alone, I don't want to ever lose it.

[beer gas canister]

Someone in a different thread pointed out that Reddit and Discord had sort of taken over, but they just aren't the same.

I think that could have been me and it was my personal crusade against Discord for one simple reason: its contents are not indexed.

You write in a forum (or even on Reddit) and it gets indexed by Google, so if you share something useful, a poor soul looking for a solution might find your thread and he'll be extremely grateful for your post.

And yeah, it feels good seeing this website being kept alive and with good activity.

The Hardware section is truly a godsend and full of great projects and tips.

Here's a recent example of why this is so important: I got into Progear recently and searched for basically every post I could find on this forum to get info about it. Among those posts were a couple of comments that the default difficulty setting is messed up in the EN ROM of the Capcom Arcade Stadium port. I brought that info to a busy stg Discord, and nobody there knew about it. There is a TON of important knowledge thrown around here that is not otherwise archived on any press blogs or wikis. The searchability and longevity of posts here is a big deal.

[o.pwuaioc]

I think forums in general are important. Someone in a different thread pointed out that Reddit and Discord had sort of taken over, but they just aren't the same. Being able to start a thread and have interested parties come together to share knowledge, and have that knowledge stay available and able to be refreshed and expanded on for years to come is priceless, imo.

Reddit and Discord are a major step back from the forum, which nicely built off the listserv and which emphasizes longevity over flashy spectacle.

I think Discord can serve as a complement to a forum, but Reddit and Facebook are garbage dumps. Things go there to die and rot. It's all just amnesia culture, and I can't stand any of it.

I'm glad this place and AtariAge are still around and not just kicking but thriving.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I think that could have been me and it was my personal crusade against Discord for one simple reason: its contents are not indexed.

You write in a forum (or even on Reddit) and it gets indexed by Google, so if you share something useful, a poor soul looking for a solution might find your thread and he'll be extremely grateful for your post.

Yeah, unfortunately the rise of Discord and the whole "everyone can have a personal pet server" thing has caused information to become really fractured. Discord is not, has never been, and will never be a useful information repository because of the fact that it's not indexed and readily searchable. It's a webchat service.

There's are new useful repositories available like the Shmups wiki (https://shmups.wiki/library/Main_Page), but the fact that a lot of discussion is happening in closed off contexts that favor speed and convenience over information preservation does mean a lot of what would be available in a forum context gets lost.

[donluca]

Yeah, unfortunately the rise of Discord and the whole "everyone can have a personal pet server" thing has caused information to become really fractured.

I'll never understand how can people even remotely compare having your own Discord server vs having your own forum, if that's their thing.

Back then we had stuff like forumfree where you didn't need any knowledge, it was free, and you could have your own personal forum in a matter of minutes.

If I had that big need for my ego, I'd 100% make my own forum rather than my own Discord server.

[bcass]

I can't believe I joined almost 20 years ago, and still recognise a good number of poster names from that far back. It seems like yesterday when everyone was bickering (in a mostly good-natured way) about the Cave 360 ports. This place is still my first go-to when looking for strats when attempting to clear an STG. An indispensable repository.

[o.pwuaioc]

Yeah, unfortunately the rise of Discord and the whole "everyone can have a personal pet server" thing has caused information to become really fractured.

I'll never understand how can people even remotely compare having your own Discord server vs having your own forum, if that's their thing.

Back then we had stuff like forumfree where you didn't need any knowledge, it was free, and you could have your own personal forum in a matter of minutes.

I was always partial to Simple Machines, which I'm glad to see is still kicking.

[atro_city]

It is a massive gold mine of information for sure. Even though I rarely post, I've referenced the strategy guides countless times and oftentimes, Google searches on random STG questions I have end up leading back here. IMO the western shmup community would suffer a tremendous loss if this forum ever disappeared. The more stuff ends up on Discord, the more information fades into obscurity.

This is also the only forum I've frequented that hasn't changed visually over the years, which is kind of nostalgic.

[mirkvid]

Remember when the stars were added to the forum background? Remember when we wanted Cave to release the "port ever" Remember the great reset of 2005? I'm old.

[PerishedFraud ឵឵]

A discord server, or any chat server, simply doesn't share the same functionality as a forum.

Sure, they're both for people to communicate on, but that's where it stops, really.

A forum is about a hundred times more orderly, it's far better for storing information and making announcements. The existence of threads that don't auto-lock means that topics can be initiated and discussed at a whim. Also, because it's slower, people have more time to respond to stuff.

A chat server (discord or otherwise) is a far more fast-paced deal. Information beyond the basics is harder to get to - you'll probably have to actually ask around. It's also used for conversation or question-asking more than discussion, per se. Most importantly, anything you don't save can be considered lost to time eventually, be it behind a ridiculous backlog of messages to go through, or actually deleted.

People who claim that discord has overshadowed forums are silly. People have merely stopped using the forums to chat. They're still being used for every bit of functionality they still hold over actual chat services.

Trivia of the day: I wouldn't be able to post this wall of text on discord.

[MintyTheCat]

For me, Discord is more like a 'new IRC'. It's fine for chatting amongst teams and people with aligning interests, but it's never going to be a store of knowledge.

Nothing beats this forum; it's been my main port of call since 2005, but I used the Xenofiles extensively from around 1999 or so onwards. In those days, and this was a time when the Internet was quite different, they were a treasure trove of information. I used to have to use a connection and get onto gamefaqs, grab hold of guides and files, copy to disk and then take home to use The world was quite different back then, but the information and having something that still has useful knowledge embedded in it is still vital and perhaps more so now than back then.

The attitude was different. Nothing is meant to last now, which is a bit tragic really. And here we all are using old, tried & tested solutions that work.
Attitudes may have changed but knowledge is knowledge and those who know appreciate it.

[drauch]

I can't imagine Discord for anything other than voice chat or as a chat room for live text. Unless pinned, information goes there to die.

Reddit is just a mess. If it's not popular it gets pushed into the netherworld, only for someone to ask the same question or post the same content with possibly different answers.

Forum or die.

[blazinglazers69]

My account is newer, but yeah I've been lurking here off and on for at least 10 years or so. It truly is one of the only ways you can reliably find information about a lot of shooters. I'd definitely have to give a shout out to Studio Mudprints too--his reviews regularly do a good job of explaining mechanics.

GROUP HUG

[donluca]

I can't imagine Discord for anything other than voice chat or as a chat room for live text. Unless pinned, information goes there to die.

And I discovered some time ago that messages older than (I believe) 1 year are not indexed anymore by the internal search engine.

I was looking for an old message of a user in a server, put in all the various info and it didn't show up.
Luckily I later found it pinned in a channel, but otherwise that piece of information would have been lost forever.

And to reply to this:

People who claim that discord has overshadowed forums are silly. People have merely stopped using the forums to chat. They're still being used for every bit of functionality they still hold over actual chat services.

I'm not sure what you're saying as it seems that your second statement contradicts the first one, but if the message is "it's not true, people have not left forums in favor of Discord" then I don't know what to say.

Modern generations are all hugely addicted to the "here and now", to the point where even waiting a couple hours after posting a message on a board is not tolerable anymore to them.

Discord (and, to some extent, social media in general) have killed the forums. This is one of the few that still holds ground and I wouldn't be surprised if most of the community here is on average 30+ years old.

[PerishedFraud ឵឵]

I'm not sure what you're saying as it seems that your second statement contradicts the first one, but if the message is "it's not true, people have not left forums in favor of Discord" then I don't know what to say.

I think it's pretty clear, but sure, here's another go.

People are blaming discord when it has done nothing wrong. People who want the "here and now" will use it. People who want something more orderly and helpful will use forums. This is not just the case with shmups, but with pretty much any community.

My point is not one of claiming or denying that people have left, but that I don't think anyone was truly "stolen over" by discord. People who want to use the forum features, will stay on forums.

[davyK]

The forum remains my favourite way to hold conversations.

Discord is too transient and unstructured with respect to content and I don't like the UI either. It has its place but it doesn't replace a forum.

A wiki might be a good way of making the info that is scattered through the threads more accessible but it would need to be curated by folk here. Would require a great deal of energy and organisation - and again - wouldn't replace the forum itself.

[Sima Tuna]

People are blaming discord when it has done nothing wrong. People who want the "here and now" will use it. People who want something more orderly and helpful will use forums. This is not just the case with shmups, but with pretty much any community.

My point is not one of claiming or denying that people have left, but that I don't think anyone was truly "stolen over" by discord. People who want to use the forum features, will stay on forums.

The only issue there is when information is gathered on Dischord but not shared to a more permanent repository that is accessible to all. If there were archivists on dischord servers who located the important information and copied it over to a wiki or forum then there would be no problem.

Ultimately, people are free to choose whatever they wish. They can use dischord if they want or use a forum. I can't really fault people using Dischord if that's what they prefer. But when it comes to knowledge (shmup-relevant example incoming, lol), such as strats for hard games, that information has some value and it would be nice if it could be preserved.

I've seen a lot of content disappear into the ether over the years. Videos, channels, articles... It can all go away in an instant if it's not archived.

[subcons]

A wiki might be a good way of making the info that is scattered through the threads more accessible but it would need to be curated by folk here. Would require a great deal of energy and organisation - and again - wouldn't replace the forum itself.

I’m pretty sure some people from here are involved in the Shmups Wiki, but it definitely needs more people contributing. It does have some pretty good pages for certain games. And why it’s not even mobile friendly is beyond me, but I’m not knowledgeable about wiki software either.

[Lethe]

A wiki might be a good way of making the info that is scattered through the threads more accessible but it would need to be curated by folk here. Would require a great deal of energy and organisation - and again - wouldn't replace the forum itself.

I’m pretty sure some people from here are involved in the Shmups Wiki, but it definitely needs more people contributing.

Well, if this is the sentiment, now's as good a time as any isn't it? It's not like shmups.wiki is closed to contributions. Even if you don't have anything original to add you could hash out basic game info or add easily verifiable stuff from the old STs here.

[donluca]

I think it's pretty clear, but sure, here's another go.

People are blaming discord when it has done nothing wrong. People who want the "here and now" will use it. People who want something more orderly and helpful will use forums. This is not just the case with shmups, but with pretty much any community.

My point is not one of claiming or denying that people have left, but that I don't think anyone was truly "stolen over" by discord. People who want to use the forum features, will stay on forums.

Thanks for elaborating, I'll try to address some points which IMHO are, to say the least, highly debatable.

Discord, as other have pointed out, is basically IRC.
But newer generations wouldn't touch IRC with a mile long stick because they probably find it intimidating.

If you remember, Slack tried to pull a Discord way earlier but it was marketed more at teamwork and business rather than gaming, so for a limited time it was still chosen by several people who were already tired of forums and wanted a faster way to communicate.

Then came Discord, people moved over because it was basically the same thing but geared more towards gaming.

Now we can speculate that if Discord didn't exist, people would probably be on Slack and, if there wasn't a Slack either, they would be in Facebook groups or similar... but honestly I think that between groups on social media and forums, we would have had way more people still on forums.

To wrap this up: lots of people probably are not anymore on forums because they don't have interest in that forum's topics anymore, maybe they carried on with their lives and have family/kids and don't have time/will to game anymore and that's something that has always happened, but the "new blood" always came in, and they kept forums alive.

Now the "new blood" is choosing Discord because they want the instant reply and are not interested in "true discussions", which means that a forum is not the tool ideal for this.
I wonder how many new people have registered here in the last 3-4 years.
My guess is not that many, compared to previous years.