Gunbird
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third_strike
- Posts: 1191
- Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:34 pm
- Location: Brazil RJ
Re: Gunbird
Okay, I'm going to put here four observations that are valid for a run started from a hard reset. Observations one, two and three are valid for Samurai Aces and Gunbird and the number four is valid only for Gunbird. I don't know about the other games, because I've never played them.
1. The first three stages in both loops are randomly chosen out of a pool of four stages. Which means you'll always skip one stage.
2. Once your character is chosen and the first stage is loaded, all stages and their sequences (including in the second loop) are already predefined.
3. The first stage which you get in first loop has a 90% chance of appearing in the second loop
4. The first stage in the 2nd loop is always the stage which you didn't get in the 1st loop.
Note: There's also a rank system based on what the position of stage in second loop, but it's more pronounced in Samurai Aces.
1. The first three stages in both loops are randomly chosen out of a pool of four stages. Which means you'll always skip one stage.
2. Once your character is chosen and the first stage is loaded, all stages and their sequences (including in the second loop) are already predefined.
3. The first stage which you get in first loop has a 90% chance of appearing in the second loop
4. The first stage in the 2nd loop is always the stage which you didn't get in the 1st loop.
Note: There's also a rank system based on what the position of stage in second loop, but it's more pronounced in Samurai Aces.
Re: Gunbird
Updated. Does anyone really care for the MLF tables? If not, I can get rid of all that garbage.
Very good info, thank you. Would it be best to avoid the train stage in loop 1?
Very good info, thank you. Would it be best to avoid the train stage in loop 1?
Rage Pro, Rage Fury, Rage MAXX!
Re: Gunbird
Assuming that:
(i) The description above is correct and one is playing with a hard reset every time (so the stages in both loops aren't fixed)
(ii) Train stage is the hardest one in the second loop (among the randomized stages), which I gather is the case from the last page
(iii) One is going for 2 loops
I think in that case one would want the 2nd or 3rd stage in the loop-1 to be the train stage. Because if there was no train stage in loop-1 then it would occur as 1st stage in the loop-2 (see point-4). And if the train stage was 1st stage in loop-1 then it is quite likely to occur in the loop-2 (see point-3).
At least that's what I interpret from the above description.
(i) The description above is correct and one is playing with a hard reset every time (so the stages in both loops aren't fixed)
(ii) Train stage is the hardest one in the second loop (among the randomized stages), which I gather is the case from the last page
(iii) One is going for 2 loops
I think in that case one would want the 2nd or 3rd stage in the loop-1 to be the train stage. Because if there was no train stage in loop-1 then it would occur as 1st stage in the loop-2 (see point-4). And if the train stage was 1st stage in loop-1 then it is quite likely to occur in the loop-2 (see point-3).
At least that's what I interpret from the above description.
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third_strike
- Posts: 1191
- Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:34 pm
- Location: Brazil RJ
Re: Gunbird
Train is a good stage to put first as it gives a lot of points and is very annoying when it comes in 1-2 and 1-3. The downside is that it will probably annoy you in the second loop.
Third_strike - 1,699,500 - 2-6 - 1P - Yes - ShmupMame v4.2 (Japan)
Edit:
Train is a good stage to put first as it gives a lot of points and is very annoying when it comes in 1-2 and 1-3. The downside is that it will probably annoy you in the second loop.
Edit:
Third_strike - 1,893,400 - 2-7 - 1P - Yes - ShmupMame v4.2 (Japan)
So weak I shocked pretty hard in last boss. Buttons failing during all run put even more nervous. At least the milking in pirates was good.
Edit:
Third_strike - 1,960,000 - ALL - 1P - Yes - ShmupMame v4.2 (Japan)
First clear in really stupid run. Lost two lives in first loop (one in 1-2 boss and one to stupid cat boss in 1-6), but keep on because I hate restart run because deaths. Finished first loop with 980mil (I can do 108Mi if I no miss). Got train in 2-2 (where I lost one life), but after this I beated the game with my last life). Only for note, in 2nd loop I don't stop fire, I kill all I can even if I die trying.
Yes I am happy, my 2nd Psikyo game cleared, like a promissed to myself
Third_strike - 1,699,500 - 2-6 - 1P - Yes - ShmupMame v4.2 (Japan)
Edit:
Train is a good stage to put first as it gives a lot of points and is very annoying when it comes in 1-2 and 1-3. The downside is that it will probably annoy you in the second loop.
Edit:
Third_strike - 1,893,400 - 2-7 - 1P - Yes - ShmupMame v4.2 (Japan)
So weak I shocked pretty hard in last boss. Buttons failing during all run put even more nervous. At least the milking in pirates was good.
Edit:
Third_strike - 1,960,000 - ALL - 1P - Yes - ShmupMame v4.2 (Japan)
First clear in really stupid run. Lost two lives in first loop (one in 1-2 boss and one to stupid cat boss in 1-6), but keep on because I hate restart run because deaths. Finished first loop with 980mil (I can do 108Mi if I no miss). Got train in 2-2 (where I lost one life), but after this I beated the game with my last life). Only for note, in 2nd loop I don't stop fire, I kill all I can even if I die trying.
Yes I am happy, my 2nd Psikyo game cleared, like a promissed to myself
Re: Gunbird
Congrats! And such an insanely high score for a first clear!third_strike wrote: Third_strike - 1,960,000 - ALL - 1P - Yes - ShmupMame v4.2 (Japan)
Did you happen to record this? It's a very notable achievement and I'd love to see it.
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third_strike
- Posts: 1191
- Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:34 pm
- Location: Brazil RJ
Re: Gunbird
Thanks for kinds of words!!!Meriscan wrote: Congrats! And such an insanely high score for a first clear!
Did you happen to record this? It's a very notable achievement and I'd love to see it.
I saved a INP, but like a said second loop was a mess. I would like try improve it before record a replay, but this will take me a while to get. But I can give you the INP if you want to watch it soon.
Time to correct this statement. After some tries I can say which this is all about RNG. If you wanna know your chances of get a determined stage here is it:third_strike wrote:3. The first stage which you get in first loop has a 90% chance of appearing in the second loop
let's assume that each stage corresponds to a letter, then in Sengoku Ace in second loop you can get the following stages combinations in 2nd loop:
Code: Select all
ABC BAC CAB DAB
ABD BAD CAD DAC
ACB BCA CBA DBA
ACD BCD CBD DBC
ADB BDA CDA DCA
ADC BDC CDB DCB
In Gunbird after you get Train in 1st loop you can get the following stages combinations in 2nd loop:
Code: Select all
AB BA CA
AC BC CB
Re: Gunbird
I understand, and I'm extremely looking forward to your new run! But still, if you want to share the INP, I'd love to see it. High scoring replays for this game are very scarce and it's by far the highest scoring clear we've done on this leaderboard, even if it's a bit of a messy run.third_strike wrote:Thanks for kinds of words!!!Meriscan wrote: Congrats! And such an insanely high score for a first clear!
Did you happen to record this? It's a very notable achievement and I'd love to see it.
I saved a INP, but like a said second loop was a mess. I would like try improve it before record a replay, but this will take me a while to get. But I can give you the INP if you want to watch it soon.
Re: Gunbird
Thanks for the clarification on the random stage selection. Incidentally I was wondering about exactly this. It would've been very intriguing if it were more than just plain rng.
And congrats on that massive score! I'm excited to see how much further you're going to push this game.
And congrats on that massive score! I'm excited to see how much further you're going to push this game.
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third_strike
- Posts: 1191
- Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:34 pm
- Location: Brazil RJ
Re: Gunbird
Third_strike - 1,991,300 - ALL - 1P - Yes - ShmupMame v4.2 (Japan)
Close to the goal, but still missing in the first loop.
1,960,000 train run: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jg_gWm ... sp=sharing
1,991,300 no train run: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jgPgBq ... sp=sharing
Edit:
Third_strike - 1,995,500 - ALL - 1P - Yes - ShmupMame v4.2 (Japan)
No miss (no train) until 2-6 dragon, I didn't get the bomb at this stage that would help me kill the boss . Got hit in last boss and he destroyed himself before I killed him. Minor mistakes in 1st loop but finished it with 1.07Mi
Close to the goal, but still missing in the first loop.
Thanks and apologies for the misunderstanding!Plasmo wrote:Thanks for the clarification on the random stage selection.
And congrats on that massive score!
Then take two:Meriscan wrote:But still, if you want to share the INP, I'd love to see it.
1,960,000 train run: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jg_gWm ... sp=sharing
1,991,300 no train run: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jgPgBq ... sp=sharing
Edit:
Third_strike - 1,995,500 - ALL - 1P - Yes - ShmupMame v4.2 (Japan)
No miss (no train) until 2-6 dragon, I didn't get the bomb at this stage that would help me kill the boss . Got hit in last boss and he destroyed himself before I killed him. Minor mistakes in 1st loop but finished it with 1.07Mi
Re: Gunbird
Thanks for sharing! I've watched both runs and really enjoyed them. Looking forward to your next PB!third_strike wrote: Then take two:
1,960,000 train run: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jg_gWm ... sp=sharing
1,991,300 no train run: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jgPgBq ... sp=sharing
Edit:
Third_strike - 1,995,500 - ALL - 1P - Yes - ShmupMame v4.2 (Japan)
No miss (no train) until 2-6 dragon, I didn't get the bomb at this stage that would help me kill the boss . Got hit in last boss and he destroyed himself before I killed him. Minor mistakes in 1st loop but finished it with 1.07Mi
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third_strike
- Posts: 1191
- Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:34 pm
- Location: Brazil RJ
Re: Gunbird
The end!!!!
Dois barão cravadinhos!
Third_strike - 2,040,400 - ALL - 1P - Yes - ShmupMame v4.2 (Japan)
I was so mad because I wouldn't be able to save the run that I even forgot to write my name. Indeed I am mad until now. First loop no miss no bom 1,07Mi. Lost two lifes in train stage, one in 2-4 boss and cleared it in my last life. Score was pretty close to my max, I would need suicide in 1st loop to beat it.
I wanted 2 million from the beginning, I always doubted if I would make it. But my connection to the game grew each time I went into this thread and read the messages of other people who came before me. It gave me the strength.
Notes:
* In 2nd loop there is rank only in mine stage boss.
* There is an end bonus based in your remained amount of lifes, bombs and power state at end of game.
Dois barão cravadinhos!
Third_strike - 2,040,400 - ALL - 1P - Yes - ShmupMame v4.2 (Japan)
I was so mad because I wouldn't be able to save the run that I even forgot to write my name. Indeed I am mad until now. First loop no miss no bom 1,07Mi. Lost two lifes in train stage, one in 2-4 boss and cleared it in my last life. Score was pretty close to my max, I would need suicide in 1st loop to beat it.
I wanted 2 million from the beginning, I always doubted if I would make it. But my connection to the game grew each time I went into this thread and read the messages of other people who came before me. It gave me the strength.
Notes:
* In 2nd loop there is rank only in mine stage boss.
* There is an end bonus based in your remained amount of lifes, bombs and power state at end of game.
Last edited by third_strike on Fri May 06, 2022 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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EmperorIng
- Posts: 5069
- Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:22 am
- Location: Chicago, IL
Re: Gunbird
Amazing job third_strike! Your awesome runs give me inspiration It's a real treat to read your observations as you crushed this game.
I guess this means the other loop 2 bosses are all just at max rank?* In 2nd loop there is rank only in mine stage boss.
DEMON'S TILT [bullet hell pinball] - Music Composer || EC2151 ~ My FM/YM2612 music & more! || 1CC List || PCE-CD: The Search for Quality
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third_strike
- Posts: 1191
- Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:34 pm
- Location: Brazil RJ
Re: Gunbird
Thanks man!
I tried again and this time I got a replay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhThx0CNxck
Little mistakes here and there, but nothing really severe, I Only messed it up in name screen.
Third_strike - 2,049,200 - ALL - 1P - Yes - ShmupMame v4.2 (Japan)
I tried again and this time I got a replay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhThx0CNxck
Little mistakes here and there, but nothing really severe, I Only messed it up in name screen.
Third_strike - 2,049,200 - ALL - 1P - Yes - ShmupMame v4.2 (Japan)
Yes, this! At 2-1 your second pattern will be single shots aimed. In 2-2 and 2-3 it will be triple shots aimed.EmperorIng wrote: I guess this means the other loop 2 bosses are all just at max rank?
Re: Gunbird
This run is utterly amazing.
There's so many things I've learned from this run. I didn't know that 6 monoliths were possible at the start of stage 6. Your power-up management looks very cool and it's scary just how many popcorn enemies you are killing during the loop. What I usually see there is pacifist play. Train stage in the loop went reasonably well, too! I guess you simply have to take a death there and carry on with the run.
Stage 6 midboss rng wasn't ideal in this run. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the highest scoring mdiboss is the robot, right? How much difference does it make if you get really unlucky here?
And another question: What exactly determines the end bonus? Is it 4k per power-up level and 6k per bomb? No idea about remaining lives... I was surprised to see you bomb at the very end of the final boss in 2-7.
Huge congrats again! Are you done with the game or do you have an even loftier goal in mind?
There's so many things I've learned from this run. I didn't know that 6 monoliths were possible at the start of stage 6. Your power-up management looks very cool and it's scary just how many popcorn enemies you are killing during the loop. What I usually see there is pacifist play. Train stage in the loop went reasonably well, too! I guess you simply have to take a death there and carry on with the run.
Stage 6 midboss rng wasn't ideal in this run. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the highest scoring mdiboss is the robot, right? How much difference does it make if you get really unlucky here?
And another question: What exactly determines the end bonus? Is it 4k per power-up level and 6k per bomb? No idea about remaining lives... I was surprised to see you bomb at the very end of the final boss in 2-7.
Huge congrats again! Are you done with the game or do you have an even loftier goal in mind?
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third_strike
- Posts: 1191
- Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:34 pm
- Location: Brazil RJ
Re: Gunbird
Too bad which i second loop is not possible to do that, because the valnus bomb is pretty weak. But that knowledge is thanks to Maucast. In fact his replay is mine inspiration, I did nothing but elevate the rules he created. How to use precisely main shot, how to use body attack after rocket punch,... All I learned from he.There's so many things I've learned from this run. I didn't know that 6 monoliths were possible at the start of stage 6.
Killing enemies was something I could give up. It was hard to come up with a strategy to kill them because the revenge bullets are fast. Train was the last thing I learned in this game. I was actually quite reluctant to learn this internship because I thought it was unfair. I just decided to dedicate myself to it after understanding its real meaning (this stage says "Bring my offering or die" )our power-up management looks very cool and it's scary just how many popcorn enemies you are killing during the loop. What I usually see there is pacifist play. Train stage in the loop went reasonably well, too! I guess you simply have to take a death there and carry on with the run.
That eye boss is the harder. Unfair bullet patterns and higher resistance. He plus cat ruin all run. the better for score is robot, but I can milk it only with Yuan-Nang, Valnus sucks there because the longer charge time to rocket punch and weack main shot (This plus weak bomb prevent me from milking and get power ups in stage mine boss in 2nd loop too). Robot should give to you over 20,000 points at max. Ball = 6,000+3,000+3,000. Fish close to 10,000 at max. Eye 10,000.Stage 6 midboss rng wasn't ideal in this run. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the highest scoring mdiboss is the robot, right? How much difference does it make if you get really unlucky here?
I don't know exactly, the maximum is 60,000, but it has to do with bombs and live stock and power up status. I bombed because I just wanted to relieve. I was so nervous which my leg was shaking. I lost a good amount of points, but I don't mind using bomb there.And another question: What exactly determines the end bonus? Is it 4k per power-up level and 6k per bomb? No idea about remaining lives... I was surprised to see you bomb at the very end of the final boss in 2-7.
Huge hanks!Huge congrats again! Are you done with the game or do you have an even loftier goal in mind?
As I said before, my initial goal was to make over two million. The first time I did it I was more sad than happy, because I hadn't been able to record the INP. So I tried again so I could have a souvenir. After do it I get really really happy. I also don't like the random elements of this Psikyo games. Your score depends a lot on which stages will come, since some stages have more scoring potential than others. That's why I think using a save state with pre-selected stages is quite questionable, since you would only have to learn one route and that route would give you the best score, and even though it is the hardest at start, with the time it would be easier as you will only practice this route.I Guess which I will play any other psikyo game after I take a break.
Re: Gunbird
Got a Marion 1cc!
Dumple - 631,900 - 2-1 - 1P - No - WolfMAME 0.251
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cy8t1svyuU
Dumple - 631,900 - 2-1 - 1P - No - WolfMAME 0.251
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cy8t1svyuU