Is gameplay no longer original?

[Pixel_Outlaw]

Ok personally i think that many of the well known game companies are not trying anything new. I love it when a good original game like Katamari comes along, but I think theese games are too far and few.

as I see it now you have

1. Sports
2. FPS
3. MMORPGs
4. RTS
5. RPG's.

oh and here is the PC market

RTS
FPS


I just fear that we will never see gameplay innovation like there was in the late 80's and early 90's. It seems like only the small time developers make anything original because they don't have the pressures of the mass media.

[Dale]

Video games are business and if companies can get people to buy the same stuff over and over again then they will,as it seems american gamers are perfectly content with all of the unoriginal crap year in and year out. But I have confidence in certaint groups to do new and remarkable things,their still is hope.

[Pixel_Outlaw]

I think i'm Japanese at heart. Or do they make the same old crap too?

[Dale]

Usauly but the Japenese tend to lean towards more gameplay focused stuff and just plain bizare and Niche,Which usauly turn's into better games. American's tend to focus on marketing and trends to much. But in general their needs to be more inovation on bolth shores then their is now.

[system11]

Usually but the Japanese tend to lean towards more gameplay focused stuff and just plain bizarre and niche.

You mean apart from the whole RPG thing? Go look up the top 100 games as voted for by Japanese gamers. They have their own machines pumping out clone after clone.

[Dale]

Usually but the Japanese tend to lean towards more gameplay focused stuff and just plain bizarre and niche.

You mean apart from the whole RPG thing? Go look up the top 100 games as voted for by Japanese gamers. They have their own machines pumping out clone after clone.

Yeah your right I don't know how many times they can do the girls with big eye's turned based magical destiny thing,It's shameful the japenese need more inovation too. Please more shmups and RunNgun's!

[benj]

It's shameful the japenese need more inovation too. Please more shmups and RunNgun's!

Yeah, games you like = innovative!

[SuperGrafx]

Personally I think that all the original ideas were tapped ages ago, back in the early to mid 1980's.

32 bit machines allowed 3D to be done semi well, so that's where developers began to focus their energies...taking 2D concepts and translating them into 3D.

Many argue that the Wii is some sort of savior in regards to original gameplay concepts, but I disagree with that. It's the same old ideas adapted to a new control scheme.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

Sometimes, I wish developers tried to be less innovative and make more classic style games. Shmups, beat 'em ups, 2d fighters, platformers, etc. And some games DON'T need to be innovative to be fun. Like for example, I don't want anything fancy in my Mega Man games except solid action and hard difficulty.

[Benjamin]

as I see it now you have

1. Sports
2. FPS
3. MMORPGs
4. RTS
5. RPG's.

There's fighters, platformers, adventure games, puzzle games, simulations, driving games, etc. Really, all genres are fairly well representive (so far), even shooters which do get a fair amount of releases considering how little they sell. The only thing you could really site would be the dearth of 2-D games on consoles, which is a shame, and the seemingly lack of interest in the arcade market by developers.

Gameplay still has originality out there, and it's really on a par with what was in the 80's and 90's. You'll always have some new idea or twist on an existing one sandwiched between tons of copycat games with no originality. Not much has really changed in that regard.

[BulletMagnet]

I think i'm Japanese at heart. Or do they make the same old crap too?

'Cept with them it's mah-jongg and dating sims, apparently.

[neorichieb1971]

Japanese is about style.

West is about making the walls in a racer with 3 billion polygons.


I choose style. Western titles I've enjoyed in the past few years have been..

Rayman
Prince of persia
God Of War
Wipeout

And they all borrow concepts from previous Japanese games. Up until Xbox though, most of the best games were released in Japan first. Giving them a creative edge and a lead time for development.

[Never_Scurred]

I choose good gameplay and a challenge over walking around jacking cars and talking to prostitutes. I should be into sports games but i'm not s sports person so I dunno. It owuld make sense for most of us to be sports game fans since both this and the shmup genre are both rather similar.
I can give all fuck about walking around leveling up and talking to NPC. If I wanna talk to people and shot stuff, i'd do it in the real world. that shit ain't fun. Games should be about fun and mastery.

[Never_Scurred]

some games DON'T need to be innovative to be fun. Like for example, I don't want anything fancy in my Mega Man games except solid action and hard difficulty.

Preach, brother, preach that gospel!

[benj]

I think i'm Japanese at heart. Or do they make the same old crap too?

'Cept with them it's mah-jongg and dating sims, apparently.

How many of these "same old crap dating sims" have you played?

And it always puzzles me when people refer to this kind of games as "dating sims", as they are neither sims nor are they about dating. Visual Novel or Love Adventure seems to be a more fitting english term for them.

[Never_Scurred]

Love Adventure

[BulletMagnet]

How many of these "same old crap dating sims" have you played?

None, in case you were wondering, since I personally have no interest in the genre. As such I hardly consider myself an expert in it, obviously, but they certainly do seem to make lots of them, year after year...and seeing as the gameplay, as far as I've been able to discern, doesn't go much beyond selecting menu options, I can't imagine how much innovation there's been amongst the countless titles in the genre...if you know of any offhand, by all means enlighten me.

And it always puzzles me when people refer to this kind of games as "dating sims", as they are neither sims nor are they about dating. Visual Novel or Love Adventure seems to be a more fitting english term for them.

I just kind of used the term I've heard applied to the genre most often, so if it's not as accurate as it should be I apologize.

[Andi]

First of all, it's hard to make a cry for innovation on a shooter focused forum. The shooter genre is a throwback. Shooters are the opposite of innovative (unless you count more bullets as innovation).

I also think it's unfair to make generalizations about Japanese versus Western games. There are tons of crap games from both sides of the planet.

[benj]

How many of these "same old crap dating sims" have you played?

None, in case you were wondering, since I personally have no interest in the genre. As such I hardly consider myself an expert in it, obviously, but they certainly do seem to make lots of them, year after year...and seeing as the gameplay, as far as I've been able to discern, doesn't go much beyond selecting menu options, I can't imagine how much innovation there's been amongst the countless titles in the genre...if you know of any offhand, by all means enlighten me.

The thing that irks me is that people always talk about them as the lowest what gaming has to offer, although they really can't be compared to other games. It's like saying DDP is better than a movie because it has better gameplay. I wasn't joking when I said that Visual Novel would be a more fitting term, because that's what most (not all) of them are.
It's like watching a movie or reading a comic where you decide how the main character acts, which leads you to different endings (sometimes more than 20).
But yes, there have been innovations besides the quality of the graphics. Nowadays these games are vastly different than they were ten years ago. I would say that they were more varied several years ago (a lot of games back then really played more like sims), but today the novel style dominates.

Here is a fanpage for one of my favourite games, in case you're interested. (It's safe for work.)

[BulletMagnet]

The thing that irks me is that people always talk about them as the lowest what gaming has to offer...

Heh, well, when I mentioned it in my first post here I wasn't even doing so because of the gameplay style or whatnot, but rather because it's such an overstuffed (or at least it sure seems that way offhand) genre, with a huge amount of titles available, and new ones coming out all the time, much like the sports/FPS genres here. Whatever innovations there are (and, to take you at their word, there are some), the basic premise is the same, though of course this is the case for any set of games that fit into a "genre." That's the only reason I bothered mentioning it (though I can't help but wonder if anyone'll leap to the defense of all the mah-jongg games now. ).

[sethsez]

Japanese is about style.

West is about making the walls in a racer with 3 billion polygons.

Yes, because it's not as if the first 3D racers with a huge impact were Ridge Racer and Daytona USA (you know, from Japanese companies) or anything.

Western arcadish racers are all about style as well. What seems to elude some Japanophiles is that they're about a different style. Claiming that, for example, Burnout has no style is just ridiculous, but it's not the same kind of style as flashy and flamboyant Japanese racers.

The same goes for just about every other genre.

Rayman
Prince of persia
God Of War
Wipeout

And they all borrow concepts from previous Japanese games.

And those previous Japanese games borrowed concepts from Western games, and on and on and on. Though I don't really see what Prince of Persia borrows from Japanese games considering the franchise, and indeed that entire style of platformer, originated in the west. Same with Wipeout... there's Japanese influence in the art design, I guess, but it's not as if F-Zero was the first futuristic racer ever made (though people who never touched a PC in their life think it is).

First of all, it's hard to make a cry for innovation on a shooter focused forum. The shooter genre is a throwback. Shooters are the opposite of innovative (unless you count more bullets as innovation).

Yeah, that's something that confuses me. Why is this even being discussed on a board that champions unoriginality and asks for more shmups, more platformers, more 2D fighters, etc?

Of course, I know the answer. It's another thinly veiled "western games are dumb" circlejerk with little basis in reality.

For hose of you who want original western games, get a decent PC and check out the indie scene. You're not going to find originality in EA any more than you'll find it in Square-Enix, so use some common sense and stop looking there.

I also think it's unfair to make generalizations about Japanese versus Western games. There are tons of crap games from both sides of the planet.

Truth. If I see one more person say something like "WESTERN COMPANIES MAKE MADDEN AND JAPANESE COMPANIES MAKE KATAMARI DAMACY" I think I'll snap. No, goddammit, western companies make Madden and Japanese companies make Winning Eleven. Western companies crank out MMORPGs (though not nearly as much as Korea), Japanese companies crank out JRPGs.

And if someone brings up GTA as an example of a mediocre series flooding the market and selling to the stupid masses (and it will happen, as it does in all of these threads), go play a Dynasty Warriors game. Any of the 10+ games made for the past generation. kthx.

PS: I have no problem with Japanese games. In fact, they're typically my preferred style for most genres except strategy and RPGs. What irks the hell out of me is Japan nuts who absolutely refuse to see or acknowledge the positive aspects of the western market or the negative aspects of the Japanese market. Stop putting Japan on a pedastal and claiming it's a land of love and kisses and gumdrops.

[system11]

And worse than that - Katamari Damacy isn't even a good game. The zoomed in nature makes me feel ill after only a few minutes. I WANT MY FIELD OF VISION BACK!

[sffan]

as I see it now you have

1. Sports
2. FPS
3. MMORPGs
4. RTS
5. RPG's.

oh and here is the PC market

RTS
FPS

Somebody please spell out these acronyms for me. Is the shmup genre included here?

To find original video games, unfortunately you still have to go back to the early eighties arcade machines to find them. Everything fits into categories nowadays.

[Ghegs]

as I see it now you have

1. Sports
2. FPS
3. MMORPGs
4. RTS
5. RPG's.

oh and here is the PC market

RTS
FPS

Somebody please spell out these acronyms for me. Is the shmup genre included here?

2. First-Person Shooter
3. Mighty Morphin'....er, Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game
4. Real-Time Strategy
5. Role-Playing Game

Quite a few genres missing indeed.

[Rob]

I'm thinking if I played more western games the last 5 years might not've been so underwhelming. Worst console generation ever, aside from shooters and racing games.

Japanese games (read: series) have been exceedingly dull. They can't make any sequel, like, better, which is kind of mind-boggling. Final Fantasy, Castlevania, Zelda, etc. have all been on downwards paths. Not much new has picked up any slack.

The go to beacon of light is always Katamari, which is pretty sad.

[Kiken]

That's the only reason I bothered mentioning it (though I can't help but wonder if anyone'll leap to the defense of all the mah-jongg games now. ).

The Suchie Pai series of Mah Jongg games are all fantastic.

There... does that count as "leaping to their defense"?

Honestly though, there is little change between them... but after trying several different mah jongg games, I've always come back to the Suchie Pai games... partially for their characters and presentation... but mostly since the series allows you to cheat like hell!

[sethsez]

My three favorite western games of the past five years are Half-Life 2 (it's an easy one, but a damn masterpiece that deserves the attention it got), Morrowind (I've yet to play Oblivion) and Darwinia. Burnout is also a great series that picked up the pieces after Namco decided to make Ridge Racer suck. The new PoP trilogy was fantastic (WW being the weakest) and Myst V ended that series nicely. Europa Universalis 2 was a brilliant strategy game (3 is shaping up nicely as well) and for people who don't care about graphics, Avernum 4 is one hell of a RPG. Gish is a great indie platformer and Alien Homonid was a nice throwback to classic run 'n guns. X3 is a fantastic space sim despite a massive learning curve, and Civilization IV is... well... Civilization IV. Etc, etc, etc.

Granted, a lot of these are PC-only. Still, I think it hasn't exactly been awful.

[system11]

My favourite Western game series would have to be Midnight Club 2/3, but this applies mostly to the online experience, which sees a form of controlled racing chaos. Grace and clean races are limited only by skill, on incredibly demanding tracks. It's a shame this wasn't more popular, people missed out bigtime, especially with the sublime handling model.

[FatCobra]

Worst console generation ever, aside from shooters and racing games.

This generation hasn't been too bad. At least it's better than the N64/PS1/Saturn era, where the graphics are either smeared with vaseline or so jaggy that the polygons could poke an eye out.

[Shatterhand]

western companies make Madden and Japanese companies make Winning Eleven.

HEY HEY HEY HEY HEY HEY watch your tongue. I never played Madden (Actually I played the Amiga Version, which I believe was based in Madden 92' .. so it doesn't count) , but Winning Eleven is FREAKING EXCELLENT stuff, and like, 2 lifes and half better than Fifa or any other soccer game available, and the whole game is usually completely revamped at every 2 or 3 releases, and EVERY version of the game has updates in the gameplay department. It's not "Just update the teams" stuff, which I hear Madden is.