Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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Mortificator
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Mortificator »

CIT wrote:This probably isn't news to you, but Metal Slug 2's performance issues are down to a coding error that made the game calculate all sprite data twice for no reason and there now exists a bug-fixed version that has performance akin to MSX. Probably your best bet to go with that version for maximum enjoyment. :)
A coding error did cause Metal Slug 2's insane slowdown, but it's not like that just sprung up at the end of its dev cycle. The design shows awareness and some attempts to compensate. The vertical missiles the player needs to jump between, for example, are set to rise much faster in 2 than in X; I'm sure the devs sped them up so when slowdown kicked in it would bring their actual speed down to the intended rate. So simply patching out the bug so the game won't chug doesn't quite give you the experience you should have had if it hadn't existed in the first place.

As for the OTHER wet cement run & gun, overclocking can get Contra Force out of the 'intolerable' range, but it's just not a very exciting game regardless.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

That opening rocket hop area perplexes me slightly, even in MSX. It runs at a constant slowdown that's not especially bad, but combined with the wickedly unforgiving platform/shooting, makes the whole affair feel like the world's most terrifying slideshow. Smooth sailing with mild chop unless I fail to disarm the first ledge-guarder unit Image
CIT wrote:This probably isn't news to you, but Metal Slug 2's performance issues are down to a coding error that made the game calculate all sprite data twice for no reason and there now exists a bug-fixed version that has performance akin to MSX. Probably your best bet to go with that version for maximum enjoyment. :)
Definitely (I think you might mean trap15's MS2 Turbo?) I just need to overcome my fatal attraction to even the most busted-out original code :mrgreen: MS2's one of those truly tragic howlers like Dracula Densetsu, where I'm fine liberating its better qualities from the abominably slow code (I decided after Holy Diver that I'd never play outright malfunctioning games unpatched, at least not in such depth - in fittingly occult fashion, I'm pretty sure it haunted my neurons for a while after)
Rastan78 wrote:According to Gemant's excellent and recently updated high score database, Rygar scores were collected for both easy and hard. Play time for the easy mode record is 3 hours! How anyone human can do that much milking against the big red scab of death is beyond me. At full speed, it's got to be one of the fastest moving enemies/projectiles ever seen in a game. Maybe you need to have this playing in the background to get in the mood.
https://youtu.be/MK6TXMsvgQg
I was expecting Slayer or Death but this is infinitely better. :lol:
Good luck with it! Goin for a no miss?
Thanks. :smile: Yeah, just going to nail down a Normal survival this weekend, with a few Beastman Jenga and Seventh Star bonuses here and there - I always regard my replays as "buyer's guides" first and foremost, competence is about what I aim for. :cool: But ala Slug, the game's score bonuses are so innately likeable, it's impossible to not nab the ones you come across.

Hokuto Shinken wa Muteki Da! (minor penultimate stage spoiler)
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The NES version is also great but quite different. Good memories of playing it at a friend's house in the day. Whenever we finally made good progress towards the end of the night we would use teh 1337 skillz strategy of pausing the game, turning off the TV, and casually putting a wadded up t-shirt, a book or the like covering the red power LED. This would guard against his mom noticing the power was on and casually destroying all of our progress.
Rygar and Blaster Master, those two's multi-hour no-saves were brutal on gradeschooler brains. Image From old diehard perspective, I like those quasi-ARPGs for the occasional lazy afternoon/night.

NES Rygar's one of those console-original sequels that lost its subtitle when it left Japan - Bionic Commando's another (on FC, they're Hachamecha Daishingeki and Hitler no Fukkatsu). In hindsight, with its compact sprites, motoring pace and meticulous action, it's actually AC Rygar that reminds me more of classic NES sidescrollers like Castlevania and Ninja Gaiden. On beast roids. Image

Slowdown? Flicker? Mercy? Wazzat? Image
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Marc »

ActRaiser remake? That was unexpected. Unfortunately, they've butchered the music and the graphics look shit. Oh well.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Jeneki »

Act Raiser remake ... wow those melee attack animations look janky as hell. At first I thought the trailer was a rough early build, until I read it's released today.

Hopefully someone will take a risk on this, and report back on the playability side. :wink:
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Rastan78 »

Yeah I almost got excited for a second til I saw a screenshot. Ouch. Sad since Actraiser is already such a beautiful game. Seems the soundtrack has new stuff by Koshiro though?

Tengo Project has already shown how to do these kind of remakes. Too bad there aren't more out there with that kind of talent.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sengoku Strider »

Actraiser's one of my favourite series ever, so I took the plunge the moment I saw it was available despite having similar misgivings.

It's been fine so far. The gameplay has been complexified, with a Symphony of the Night-style backdash and multiple sword moves. The game lets you listen to any of the soundtrack right from the title screen, and you can switch between the original and new versions on the fly during gameplay. The arrange is a definite improvement. The boss fights seem to have been amped up.

I haven't had a chance to get very far, because I only stumbled across the announcement right before bed. In terms of negatives, it looks like something that got greenlit as a mobile project and then was expanded to dedicated platforms along the way. But so far it plays fine.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by pegboy »

Churned out a no death run of Contra Force. The thing I hate the most about this game is not the slow motion gameplay, but the fact that you CANNOT SKIP THE CUTSCENES. Not only are they not skippable, but the text appears at the slowest possible speed, making it probably the most infuriating thing I've ever encountered in a Contra game.

Somewhere buried deep under this turd is the possibility of a good game, but it needed some 16 bit power to realize what they were trying for. The NES was just too primitive to pull this off, and why it wasn't developed for the SNES or Gensis I will never know, as this damn game actually came out after Contra III somehow.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Good job soldier Image

Offhand, I wonder if Arc Hound (bork!)/Contra Force's deviations were any influence on Hard Corps. Which was entirely better-integrated to the ongoing series, to be sure, but definitely has some things in common. Four-character team, more of a quirky special forces unit than Ahnuld/Sly ubercommandos, story peripheral to the main invasion threat. Not bad ideas at all... then again, Hard Corps has a few unskippable cutscenes too. Image

Gave Contra US Very Hard a shot, god damn it's mean. :cool: I'm surprised at how quickly I got back into the aiming, it's nowhere as troublesome as I was expecting. I always exaggerate it in my head. An entirely different beast from defaults, I can't believe how many dudes fit in that one bush. :lol: Because I'm a dumbass, I thought I'd try transposing my default Stage 3 route - work in progress :mrgreen:
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BrianC »

I wonder if Arc Hound was originally intended to use a VRC chip. That would explain the odd slowdown in places. IIRC, Contra Spirits was going to be renamed to Contra IV: The Alien Wars at one point instead of Contra III: The Alien Wars.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Obiwanshinobi »

Has anyone developed somewhat "synthetic" opinion about Konami's ReBirth sidescrollers (Contra ReBirth, Castlevania: The Adventure ReBirth, Gradius ReBirth)? There's more WiiWare-only stuff little spoken of I've been curious about (just not enough to go purchase them while I could), but these three, I feel, particularly deserve some examination 'round here.

Unless they once were taken seriously on these boards already and it's I who have no clue.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Ghegs »

I don't know what a synthetic opinion is, but I think all Rebirth titles are good entries to their respective series. They might not have anything particularly new to them, but they nail the fundamentals and are just, overall, solid Contra/Castlevania/Gradius games. You could use them as textbook examples of what the series are about.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Obiwanshinobi »

Ghegs wrote:I don't know what a synthetic opinion is, but I think all Rebirth titles are good entries to their respective series. They might not have anything particularly new to them, but they nail the fundamentals and are just, overall, solid Contra/Castlevania/Gradius games. You could use them as textbook examples of what the series are about.
This is a synthesis of sorts, thanks.
Hoped so much! Been crazily hooked on Wii lately.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

I could easily be mistaken, but weren't the Rebirth games developed by M2? Some great discography-diving soundtracks to all three by Manabu Namiki, I know that much. Any man who'll resurrect HEAVY BLOW and THE FOGGY CAVE IN THE DARKNESS is aces in my book. Image Even Contra Force got a look in, great BGM if nothing else. I'd like to see those get re-released.

Unlike Super Contra, whose JP version has an exclusive second loop, it seems the US and JP versions of the original are identical. Been mucking about with them on Very Hard today, strategies and routes translate across seamlessly. Great game for a short, violent time attack; only thing I dislike is the Base 2 boss's super-tanky HP. Survival is easy enough with the Spreadgun, it just takes forever to kill him.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Obiwanshinobi »

Speaking of re-cycled OSTs, Hudson's Kororinpa sports Star Soldier, Starship Hector, Cubic Lode Runner, Challenger, Bomberman and Milon's Secret Castle tunes unlockable.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... vjKMwhayNu

I feel it's a thing of beauty.

And while it's not scrolling, apparently, I wonder if Super Mario Bros. Special (by Hudson, for NEC PC-8801 and Sharp X1) is much good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txcEMPakkPg
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Rastan78 »

BIL wrote:I could easily be mistaken, but weren't the Rebirth games developed by M2?
You're not mistaken. M2 was responsible for these lost digital artifacts and have stated that they would like to rebirth these rebirths some day on new consoles. But they've also more or less stated they would like to port every game ever, so don't hold your breath. They've even broken the ice on porting home ports of arcade games back to the arcade (Fantasy Zone).

Once they do port every game ever and then port the arcade to console ports back to the arcade again, they'll begin emulating the entire universe in another dimension using a Sega Game Gear to open up an interdimensional space time conduit. Pretty big brain stuff considering M2 boss Naoki Horii never even went to college.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sengoku Strider »

So...Actraiser got padded the heck out and back with the god-sim sections by making it into a tower defence game. I saw people complaining that it took them 2 hours to get through Fillmore and I thought they were just being whiny, but then it took me more than 3. It's not bad, but there's a lot of it, more than there needs to be...which really reinforces my thought that it got approved as a mobile game first.

On the one hand it grants more action to the sim sections, but on the other the balance gets completely out of whack to the point where the sim is the game, with the action sections feeling like an added bonus on the side.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by SriK »

Hey, check out this cool sidescroller called STEEL ASSAULT that's coming out tomorrow on PC and Switch...

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1280 ... l_Assault/

Finally. Only took seven years lol. And the next game is already underway, you'll all be hearing about it soon as well.

Other than that... I played a bit of Flynn: Son of Crimson recently (the other high-profile sidescroller release of this month). I was really looking forward to this game for the pixel art, and I was over the moon when I heard it wasn't a Metroidvania as I had assumed. The game is actually in the format of Super Mario World and Donkey Kong Country, i.e. stages selected on an overworld with branching paths. Only problem: this thing's combat is BORING, at least so far. Everything else about the game really is charming (except maybe the puzzles, why do devs think I want to drag heavy blocks around when I'm playing Mario?) but the combat is tedious! Every enemy takes like twelve hits to kill! And it's all the same pattern: slash at an enemy, dodge-roll behind them before they attack you, rinse and repeat. I am going to play more anyway; I really hope it gets better. The art direction is so good that it feels like a professional obligation to finish it, it's like a breath of fresh air compared to most other Western retro games. If they really did screw it up then I might post a review begging them for an alternate mode, or post in their Steam forum, or even just e-mail them... maybe in a few weeks, since it seems like this thing is struggling for sales and I don't want to add any public negativity. (I think it deserves great sales, despite everything I just said.) The combat looks really cool in the GIFs on the Steam page, so I'm hoping that once I unlock more abilities I can dispatch enemies much faster, and with more style.

Also, I didn't see anyone here mention it, but Gunvolt Chronicles 2 is coming out in January: http://gunvolt.com/en/X2/ -- So hyped. The first one is maybe my favorite sidescroller of the past few years. Genuinely stylish and innovative game with great sprite designs and art direction. Copen plays like a demented version of Sparkster (or like Megaman with way more mobility, air-dashing and pinballing off enemies). I hope that the sequel has more difficult stages, as the first game's were kind of a joke even after turning off all the difficulty crutches -- although it's still fun to blaze through them anyway, the basic movement feels so cool and it never gets old. I also hope they keep up the same standards for the bosses, as the fights in the first game really were fantastic, probably the best and most over-the-top Megaman-style bosses ever. I haven't really played the other Gunvolt games, but they look a lot less interesting, and they seem to have gotten a pretty tepid reception both around these parts and around the general gaming community.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Congratulations! Damn, it really has been that long, huh. This thread's getting on a bit. :mrgreen:
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by pegboy »

Onto Super Contra (arcade). A few notes first of all:

1) Japanese version and US version are the same except Japanese version has a second loop.
2) The second loop difficulty in the Japanese version is the same as setting the dip switch to "very difficult" in either version.
3) Machine gun is only weapon worth using
4) Your weapon carries over into loop 2 for the Japanese version
5) You can use autofire (either in mame or a circuit with the PCB) to fire the machine gun faster than it's normal rate of fire. Doesn't seem to be any cap, so 30Hz is possible.
7) Seems like autofire is probably necessary to "reliably" 1cc or no-death the game on very difficult or 2-ALL in Japanese version. Stage 4 is just too much of a nightmare without it.
8) Quick kill on final boss is possible with correct positioning, autofire not even required if you have the machine gun. If you don't have the machine gun but have 1 life to spare you can suicide into him and then autofire him to death in like 1 second right at the start of the fight.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

pegboy wrote:2) The second loop difficulty in the Japanese version is the same as setting the dip switch to "very difficult" in either version.
This is what I've always suspected - I used to play the US version BITD, and ended up using Very Difficult after defaults got too easy. So the JP loop, while brutal, seemed familiar.

Director Hideyuki Tsujimoto's later Sunset Riders behaves exactly the same; JP version has a second and final loop that's simply Difficulty+Rank permanently maxed. Mystic Warriors sounds like it's the same way, from what I've heard.
3) Machine gun is only weapon worth using
Yeah. :lol: Saved the game, imo. You know the weapons upgrade when collected 2x, right? Super Machinegun is astonishing. Funny story about that weapon, from the game's loke tests.
7) Seems like autofire is probably necessary to "reliably" 1cc or no-death the game on very difficult or 2-ALL in Japanese version. Stage 4 is just too much of a nightmare without it.
I've been doing ok with manual SMG (in M2's Anniversary Collection emulation), though I'm definitely planning to use autofire whenever I go for a recorded attempt. Stage 4's zako HP is indeed ridiculous. I left it early this year, at a particular spawn point that was demanding Swiss timepiece engineering.
8) Quick kill on final boss is possible with correct positioning, autofire not even required if you have the machine gun. If you don't have the machine gun but have 1 life to spare you can suicide into him and then autofire him to death in like 1 second right at the start of the fight.
Yeah, you can completely sledgehammer him with SMG and good footing. The preceding Facewall is probably more dangerous with its targeted salvo, though just as trivialised by good positioning.

I noticed a small difference in Contra JP vs US, over the weekend. The second Big Bruiser Dude seems to spawn significantly earlier in US, compared to JP. I'd been getting consistent Very Hard nomisses in Japan, a critical strategy being this guy's spawn point. The instant the white border of the floor has scrolled past, I know I'm in position to back up and fire. In US, he'll consistently attack before I reach that point, for a marginally trickier battle (I'm closer, so he dies faster to spread, but I have to dodge at least one projectile).

Came up with a new way of disabling Java (Big Alien Head), which looks amusing. Gonna record a quick run tonight, for old times' sake. Normally I stick to defaults with my arcade games, but Contra's a rare example that actually benefits from maxing out (Elevator Action Returns and Shock Troopers are two more - sharpens up their somewhat dozy enemies nicely).

---

EDIT: OMFG Image Little did I know, you can exploit the second Gordea's early US spawn, shredding him from the lower-left while he frisbees in vain. (thanks as always to my #1 Contra Name Reference Bros @ Contra HQ :cool: I gots the papers but I can'ts read 'em! Image)

And so that was that, and the last consistent menace fell. My JP strat is about as consistent, but a bit scarier, since he won't attack until you're past the hideyhole. Got a nomiss uploading - almost foreswore my Java trick, wondering if it too might differ in US, but it worked fine. It feels horribly unsafe, and tbh I can whack him just as consistently with either jumping horizontal fire from the far left, or the classic diagonal headshot (just gotta watch out for worst-case RNG, where a couple of Bundles will spawn in perfect pincering sync). However it makes for a neat thumbnail. Image

A flawed but nonetheless legendary game. I notice a Hideyuki Falco high up in the staff roll, I guess that's my man Tsujimoto. Guy's name is on a bunch of classically balls-hard Konami titles, my favourite pick being their granite-tough Toaplanesque, Trigon. Which amusingly coincided with another tribute to Yuge, Uemura and co, only Raiden got a million sequels, while Trigon only just saw its first console release last year - and now both are on ACA, with their blueprint Kyuukyoku Tiger getting M2 release next month! All's well that ends well, this gen has been surprisingly delightful. Image
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by pegboy »

Lol. I was just going to post you can cheese that disc throwing fool by hiding to the left. Seems like an odd change between the regions, wonder why it was done. Posted my run from last week just now too.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

pegboy wrote:Lol. I was just going to post you can cheese that disc throwing fool by hiding to the left. Seems like an odd change between the regions, wonder why it was done. Posted my run from last week just now too.
Superb run, loved the cab capture too. :mrgreen: Turns out I had the same idea as you, re: Java and his Bundles; whack the latter on entry, then get underneath and do some Pointblank Craniectomy. Image Mine's up now too.

Here's my usual Gordea mkII JP pattern, for reference - the white border is key, along with firing at him when he's on the ground (rather than whiffing past him as he jumps).

Ex1
Ex2

Seems to vary depending on how fast I deal damage, but either way, he'll consistently die on that final, out-ranged lob. Whose lingering explosion can OFC kill you, dohoho. I guess they nerfed him slightly; other than the fourth boss's combo of extreme durability and jumpshot punishing, he was by far my biggest threat, until I nailed down a pattern. Was aghast at first when it didn't work in US, haha.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

Oh man, I'm so itching for some Rygar as well. I've got it working once by massaging a socketed RAM chip, but now it seems like there's no reaction at all. I've cleaned the socket with a heavy duty contact cleaner, I've confirmed connection on all pins, and even used a logic probe to confirm activity on all of them as well. I really have no idea where to look next. My best bet is that it's a voltage issue, but have no way to confirm that at the moment.
BrianC wrote:I wonder if Arc Hound was originally intended to use a VRC chip. That would explain the odd slowdown in places.
How so?
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

SriK wrote:Hey, check out this cool sidescroller called STEEL ASSAULT that's coming out tomorrow on PC and Switch...

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1280 ... l_Assault/

Finally. Only took seven years lol. And the next game is already underway, you'll all be hearing about it soon as well.
Whoa, I completely missed that your game is finally done!! Congratulations!
As you know, I absolutely loved the demo version, and if the full game keeps up the pace from that, it could be the best new R2RKMF release in years. I hope the finished product wasn't "dumbed down" too much based on people's scrubby feedback ;) but since there's a Switch release I guess I'll be able to to find out myself. Can't wait to play this.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BrianC »

Sumez wrote:
BrianC wrote:I wonder if Arc Hound was originally intended to use a VRC chip. That would explain the odd slowdown in places.
How so?
It's likely slowdown would still be there, but it's possible a better mapper could help optimize the game. Skykid US was switched to an inferior mapper when the JP version used something closer to MMC3 (one of namco's chips). The US version has enemies shooting less to prevent slowdown and slows down whenever an explosion from cannons occurs. This is not the case with the JP version, which has more on screen without slowdown. Then again, Parodius used a VRC chip.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

I don't think there were ever made any contemporary mapper chips that had any kinds of coprocessors on them, though.
Legend would have it that the game that eventually ended up as Super Noah's Ark 3D on the SNES originally was intended as a NES release featuring one, but that never came to be.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BrianC »

I'm not talking co processors. I'm suggesting that Contra Force may be poorly optimized. I mean, I don't expect a better mapper to make it a much better game or eliminate all slowdown, but when one enemy appears on screen and causes slowdown, it gives my the impression the game isn't running as well as it should.

edit: I got TLROM confused with another mapper. Contra Force uses MMC3. SxROM is MMC1.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Stevens »

I see I'm a little late, but Steel Assault is out.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by drauch »

Resident iconoclast has an Expert, No Damage run up. Really looks slick, like one of the first throwbacks of such I've actually been excited for. Animation is really fluid, great design, meaty hits--and not a metroidvania!
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

I've only been playing expert so far, but it's tough and great. A lot of my deaths probably come from my own impatience but there are also a few points that feel a little rough IMO. I've also died a few times from just falling through the floor. I love the twitch reactions to all the RNG, though it's a little back and forth how much of it is dominating each stage section.

Overall I'm really digging the game.

Steel Assault, that is.
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