Jeff Minter and Llamasoft

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cave hermit
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Jeff Minter and Llamasoft

Post by cave hermit »

I don't know, I just felt like playing some modern arcadey games in that 80's twitch action vein that Williams and Eugene Jarvis defined (Defender, Robotron, etc.), and first thing that came to mind was Jeff Minter's stuff. Weird timing, as the topic of Llamasoft just came up in the VR shmups thread. I really enjoy his game design sensibilities, the only real questionable thing (well besides the abundance of inexplicable iconography, sound bytes, and the recurring ungulate motif) is the absolute sensory overload most of his games have with neon particle effects clouding out most of the screen. This is kind of a YMMV thing, personally I think not only is it a part of the Llamasoft aesthetic, but it's kind of part of the challenge, you need to filter out all the visual noise and get in the zone to succeed.

Two titles I've been playing on PC are Moose Life and Minotaur Arcade Vol. 1.

Moose Life seems really promising, but I haven't played much of it yet. From what I have played so far, it seems like it kind of builds off of Konami's Juno First, and adds a plane flipping mechanic.

Minotaur Arcade Vol. 1 has 2 revamped versions of games that Jeff originally released on smartphones: Grid Runner, and Goat up. Grid Runner is the real star of the show here, building off Centipede and adding plenty of twitch action and neon particles to filter through. A significant revamp of the iOS and Android versions. Goat up is a fun little extra, but not close to being on the same level as Grid Runner, it's a weird little platformer that I can't describe very well. Other thing I'll say is that for Grid Runner if you're not using VR, you really should be using mouse movement for Grid Runner, but you have to opt into the beta branch of the game to enable it, which is only indicated on the steam discussion board.

Maybe one of these days I'll try out one of his real early 8/16 bit home computer releases using my MiSTer...
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Re: Jeff Minter and Llamasoft

Post by Marc »

Minter doesn't get enough love around here. Only time I ever saw any real discussion was around the time of, arguably, his weakest game with Space Giraffe. Don't care what anybody says, the visuals get in the way of the gameplay on that one.

Polybuis, Moose Life and Gridrunner are absdlutely brilliant. Not so much a fan of Tempest 4000, but I've always felt the controls on Tempest are weird - sort of analogue but not quite, I don't like the 'lanes'.

I'm still hoping for a couple more ports from iOS. Minotron in particular is the best Robotron rip I've ever played.
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Spacemonkey
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Re: Jeff Minter and Llamasoft

Post by Spacemonkey »

I love his games, every now and then I have to take out my Atari ST and play Llamatron 2112.

Tempest 2000 is probably my favorite game on the Jaguar.

TxK on the Vita was pretty neat.

Had not heard of Space Giraffe on the 360, will check it out looks fun.
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Re: Jeff Minter and Llamasoft

Post by Obiwanshinobi »

Gridrunner Revolution was originally a PC game, and I read Gridrunner++ controlled with mouse as well. Revolution (demo) struck me as a distinctly computer game.
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Re: Jeff Minter and Llamasoft

Post by NAVVARR »

I'm a massive fan of Jeff Minters early games - the ones on the Vic20 were fantastic back in the day.

The Vic 20 versions in my opinion actually outshone the C64 versions, check out Lazer Zone on the Vic, the sound effects are 'Awesome' - nice thunky meaty sounds, a bit like Defender.
Compared to the C64 version which is more pew pew pew sounding.

Check out the obvious classics such as Gridrunner and Matrix- but also try Hellgate, another kinda overlooked Vic 20 classic which never really gets any mentions and again, is far better on the Vic20 than the C64.

Other notable mentions- MetaGalacticLlamas and Traxx- oh and some defender clone- Andes Attack- they're pretty early and so so.
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Re: Jeff Minter and Llamasoft

Post by m.sniffles.esq »

I'm Minter agnostic. It comes down to a game to game basis with him (I think at this point, even his most die hard fans can admit he's just a capable putting out a stinker as a hit)

That said, I've been LOVING Moose Life. I think it's easily his best since Tempest 2k. I made a thread, but it didn't get a whole lot of interest.

If I had my wish, Spotify (or whichever giant music service) would give him a truckload of cash to build them a visualizer and he could retire in style.

Had not heard of Space Giraffe on the 360, will check it out looks fun.

It's... dissive. I thought it was okay. It tries a bunch of new things and not all of them totally work. The one bit of advice I'll give is to be sure and read the instructions. It doesn't work the way you think it does.
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Re: Jeff Minter and Llamasoft

Post by Jamesac68 »

Marc wrote:Minter doesn't get enough love around here. Only time I ever saw any real discussion was around the time of, arguably, his weakest game with Space Giraffe. Don't care what anybody says, the visuals get in the way of the gameplay on that one.
One of the major themes of Space Giraffe is that it's built to de-emphasize the player's need to see clearly everything going on, relying on feel and audio feedback to get around the web. If (and it's a big "if" for a lot of people) you can get to grips with that you'll find it's one of the best shooters available. Personally I'm only middling at it, but every once in a while I find my way in to the headspace it's trying to create and it's simply amazing in there.

Much as I love Llamasoft, I really wish they had a UI designer on the team. Amazing games, and the tutorials are much better than they used to be, but navigating the menus is almost always its own unique challenge.
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Re: Jeff Minter and Llamasoft

Post by yosai »

m.sniffles.esq wrote:
If I had my wish, Spotify (or whichever giant music service) would give him a truckload of cash to build them a visualizer and he could retire in style.
Minter created the Neon music visualizer built in to the xbox360.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjI4dYWsFbM (Epilepsy warning)

It's also interactive.

http://minotaurproject.co.uk/x360manual.php
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Re: Jeff Minter and Llamasoft

Post by m.sniffles.esq »

Minter created the Neon music visualizer built in to the xbox360

That's what gave me originally gave me the wish. He has the experience, they (Spotify or whoever) don't currently have one (but they do have deep pockets). Plus, his whole "future '80s" aesthetic is tré chic nowadays. Someone should get them together.
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Re: Jeff Minter and Llamasoft

Post by MJR »

I'm delighted to see some Minter love here. First time I stumbled onto his work was Batalyx for Commodore 64. I couldn't understand anything about it at all, but it felt so unique and intriquing that I never forgot it since. I eventually bought the original copy and was able to read instructions, and it revealed to be quite nice multi-minigame which no one has replicated ever since.

I met the man few years back when he was visiting our town, we had few beers and discussed about the faux "retro" style games of today; and how much cooler it would be to develop "real" retro shmups for an actual old arcade hardware rather than just developing it on PC and pretending it's "retro". It was just talk, but I hope he some day gets to it.

Ps. Back in the day, people around me claimed that Batalyx was done under "the influence", but Jeff assured to me that he has never taken anything stronger than tea :)
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Re: Jeff Minter and Llamasoft

Post by soupbones »

Polybius remains the best PSVR game imo, and one of his best games overall. Absolutely love that game.

I’ve only played Moose Life a few times, but it seems awesome. Really need to get back at that one.
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Re: Jeff Minter and Llamasoft

Post by m.sniffles.esq »

but Jeff assured to me that he has never taken anything stronger than tea

Mushroom tea...

I kid
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Re: Jeff Minter and Llamasoft

Post by m.sniffles.esq »

Tempest 4K comes to Switch and Atari's own dumb console that nobody owns!

Sub Headline:

Atari comes to it senses!

Instead of "Combat Recharged!" by some cheapo mobile developer aping Minter, they decide to get Minter (who already made the game!)
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Re: Jeff Minter and Llamasoft

Post by Udderdude »

Polybius 2 when?
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Re: Jeff Minter and Llamasoft

Post by Firehawke »

Only if they got rid of that really annoying and stupid "spinner simulation" on the controls that utterly wrecks T4K as a game. Having almost no control over movement stop sliding you into the panel with the instant-kill electric attack made that game infuriating to play.
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Re: Jeff Minter and Llamasoft

Post by Marc »

m.sniffles.esq wrote:Tempest 4K comes to Switch and Atari's own dumb console that nobody owns!

Sub Headline:

Atari comes to it senses!

Instead of "Combat Recharged!" by some cheapo mobile developer aping Minter, they decide to get Minter (who already made the game!)
In fairness, I'm currently playing Centipede Recharged, and it's pretty decent.
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Re: Jeff Minter and Llamasoft

Post by m.sniffles.esq »

Only if they got rid of that really annoying and stupid "spinner simulation" on the controls that utterly wrecks T4K as a game. Having almost no control over movement stop sliding you into the panel with the instant-kill electric attack made that game infuriating to play.

That's odd as the Tempest spinner (on the cabinet) is really quite precise (it needs to be in order to avoid spikes). Hopefully, they're at least be a way to turn it on or off.

------

In fairness, I'm currently playing Centipede Recharged, and it's pretty decent.

I don't really have any idea. I was tempted to try the Black Widow (since I'm one of the three people who actually has a Black Widow cabinet), but the word was they were all really, really boring. Centipede struck me as the strangest since it looked nothing like the original.

Anyway, the whole vibe struck me as whoever is calling themselves Atari now saying "Hey, remember when we updated Tempest and it was awesome? Well, we're doing it again except with greatly diminishing returns!"
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Re: Jeff Minter and Llamasoft

Post by davyK »

Only found out that T4K is on Steam. So that was an insta-buy.

I shared the concerns mentioned earlier with the controls - that bit of inertia you build up when moving is hard to wrangle without a spinner. But I learned that the left trigger is a brake that stops you dead. That makes it a different proposition entirely.

Have a played a bit of Space Giraffe on 360 but I need to devote more focussed time to it. Introduces some satisfying score techniques with that bully move.

I love T2K but I've only ever played the Saturn port. And I've heard it has some issues especially in the later levels. I tended to only play it casually so never got past the red webs. I hear that the 2000 mode in Tempest X3 on PS1 is a better recreation. I really can't see me buying a Jaguar just to play that game.

I consider myself privileged to have played a lot of the original in the arcade. Was a mind melting experience back in the day. I agonised over deciding between Tempest and Asteroids Dx when I got a classic cabinet (and only one due to space). I think I made the right choice going for Asteroids but it's damn close between the two for me.
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Re: Jeff Minter and Llamasoft

Post by m.sniffles.esq »

I really can't see me buying a Jaguar just to play that game.

I ended up selling my Jaguar because Tempest 2k was the only thing I used it for anymore. But yeah, none of the ports quite have the magic the Jaguar version has.

I shared the concerns mentioned earlier with the controls - that bit of inertia you build up when moving is hard to wrangle without a spinner. But I learned that the left trigger is a brake that stops you dead. That makes it a different proposition entirely.


That makes more sense. It sounds like something that may have a bit of a learning curve, but is entirely doable.

I've actually been playing a lot of Polybius lately. I didn't pay it much attention initially because I thought it was something more alone the lines of Thumper than a just a tube shooter. I don't know what gave me that impression, but it was wrong. It's a pretty fantastic game.
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Re: Jeff Minter and Llamasoft

Post by Fingolfin »

Atari 50th: The Anniversary Collection! :mrgreen:

Great to see several more essential Atari games (beyond the Atari Flashback Classics) for arcade and computer and consoles including Lynx and Jaguar this time around — love me some Food Fight, Warbirds, and Tempest 2000! Rather they’d included the 800 Star Raiders w/ black screen background than 5200 w/ blue screen background but still good to have another version of one of Atari’s best 8-bit games (controls replication from 5200 easier to be sure w/ no keyboard & CX40 combo).

Will be interesting to see how the 800, 5200, 7800, Lynx and Jaguar games play vs on their original systems (as diehard Atari freak still have all of these systems though haven’t been playing much og hardware stuff recently).

Thanks much for the heads up m.sniffles.esq!

Other Jeff Minter games worth a (re)visit: Attack of The Mutant Camels, Revenge of The Mutant Camels and a personal longtime favorite Hovver Bover. :D


Edits/revisions spelling of Hovver Bover!
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Re: Jeff Minter and Llamasoft

Post by m.sniffles.esq »

Llamasoft: The Jeff Minter Story from Digital Eclipse coming in 2024

Too lazy to watch: Llamasoft getting the Atari 50 treatment. Includes 42 titles
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Re: Jeff Minter and Llamasoft

Post by PC Engine Fan X! »

I'd like to see what Jeff Minter could do with an original Vectrex game done in Assembler.

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Re: Jeff Minter and Llamasoft

Post by FunktionJCB »

Looking forward to that compilation!

The behind the scenes stuff and interviews alone should be worth the price tag, but 42 titles on top of that (+1 reimagined version of Gridrunner, so 43 titles) will be just awesome.
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Post by Lander »

Neat that they're taking the historical archive approach and including various supplemental content alongside the games themselves.

The extensive Llamasoft History section of Jeff's site is a great read, so some podcasty accoutrements rendered in characteristic southern mumble should be quite nice.

Bit of a shame to see the mid-late PC titles like Gridrunner++ and Hovver Bovver 2: Grand Theft Flymo get passed over though.
S'pose you can't have it all, but that era is as formative as it gets for me; irreverence, abstract nonsense, and some Red Dwarf on the side.
Last edited by Lander on Thu Dec 07, 2023 5:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jeff Minter and Llamasoft

Post by FunktionJCB »

Here's the official website, with some additional details and screenshots:

https://www.digitaleclipse.com/games/llamasoft

Lander wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:02 pm Bit of a shame to see the mid-late PC titles like Gridrunner++ and Hovver Bovver 2: Grand Theft Flymo get passed over though.
S'pose you can't have it all, but that era is as formative as it gets for me; irreverence, abstract nonsense, and some Red Dwarf on the side.
According to some official info posted on the Steam forums, there may be an explanation for the various omissions:

«How many games will be in this project?
The magic number for a Douglas Adams fan like Jeff: 42. Additionally, the reimagined version of Gridrunner, programmed by our studio head Mike Mika, will bring the grand total to 43.»

So, it kind of implies Jeff choose to have 42 of his games included, for the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy reference (the 43rd is not coded by him; it's a reimagined take on Gridrunner by Mike Mika from Digital Eclipse). :mrgreen:
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Re: Jeff Minter and Llamasoft

Post by Fingolfin »

Llamasoft: The Jeff Minter Story looks great! :mrgreen:

If Atari 50th: The Anniversary Collection is anything to go by this should be really good: that was excellent all around with interviews and images/text highlight-bullets and the game selection and emulation were all really well done! Really cool and well developed format: a very fun way to spend time with the historical context, developers’ anecdotes and some trivia type info while you explore the games — not to mention the newly made 50th Anniversary versions which are very thoughtful and “authentic.” Of course Tempest 2000 is a key reason to pick it up and it plays very well.

Atari 50
viewtopic.php?t=70770

Digital Eclipse has earned their bad rep for emulation but for Atari 50th the emulation was really well done: as good or even better than Code Mystics for Atari Flashback Classics which is very good.

Hovver Bover appears to be included, and as I never had or played og Vic 20 or C64 am really excited about titles from those machines.

Really liked the Minter quotation about playing games for the fun of the experience not for the last boss and to be done with a game having beaten it — not exactly word for word there but fairly close paraphrase. The experience in and of itself and not an end goal — I very much relate to that as a 54 year old lifelong video game and STG player.

I enjoy the competition and challenge of video games and STGs in particular but I love the experience of really well made thoughtful games and just the experience of playing them without need for an end goal.
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Post by Lander »

FunktionJCB wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:15 pm According to some official info posted on the Steam forums, there may be an explanation for the various omissions:

«How many games will be in this project?
The magic number for a Douglas Adams fan like Jeff: 42. Additionally, the reimagined version of Gridrunner, programmed by our studio head Mike Mika, will bring the grand total to 43.»

So, it kind of implies Jeff choose to have 42 of his games included, for the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy reference (the 43rd is not coded by him; it's a reimagined take on Gridrunner by Mike Mika from Digital Eclipse). :mrgreen:
Well, if you can only pick a philosophically satisfying number... :lol: 42, cripes. Never realized quite how prolific the man was BITD!
Fingolfin wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2023 4:24 am Really liked the Minter quotation about playing games for the fun of the experience not for the last boss and to be done with a game having beaten it — not exactly word for word there but fairly close paraphrase. The experience in and of itself and not an end goal — I very much relate to that as a 54 year old lifelong video game and STG player.
Polybius was bloody brilliant for that - specifically the PS4 release, since a few gremlins got stuck in the level sequencer during the jump to PC and never quite shook themselves out.

Perhaps in part because the scoring is odd and it's a real marathon to single-session, but I've found myself revisiting it purely to rocket through abstract manifolds while experiencing total audiovisual overload, laced with weird ASMR stimuli; it's something that simply doesn't exist elsewhere.
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Re: Jeff Minter and Llamasoft

Post by Marc »

Shame the IOS stuff is missing. Some of their best work IMO.
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Re: Jeff Minter and Llamasoft

Post by m.sniffles.esq »

Shame the IOS stuff is missing. Some of their best work IMO.

Being a green bubble peon, I don't know if those games are still readily available (I know a couple ended up on steam). But, I noticed a definite theme to the collection, and that theme being 'shit you can't get anymore'
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