R-Type Final2
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- Posts: 11
- Joined: Thu May 13, 2021 1:59 pm
Re: R-Type Final2 Hello, and a score exploit.
Hello all
New on here, though I’ve lurked for many years. Shoutouts to some of you shmup gods I watch on the toob (Icarus, zaarock, stg weekly et al.)
I’m just a keen amateur, and was super chuffed just to get a normal difficulty no miss. I’ve been loving it so far. One point I think worth making is that it’s actually quite a welcoming game for the more scrubby like myself. Lots of different difficulties means you don’t have to be god tier to get anywhere. It’s the first r type I’ve played since the port of 1 on the Amiga in 1987. Man, I’m probably the oldest here (50 next year!)
The main reason I posted is I’ve found a score exploit/secret bonus/ glitch. Apologies if this is already known, but couldn’t find it anywhere online: In 7.2, if you kill the 2 minibosses when they are joined and coming in from the left in the second phase ( I used the Leo 2 bit charge attack after weakening them in the first phase) as soon as they appear, you get an extra 300k! I can replicate this reliably on PS4 Pro. Give it a try, it takes my 7.2 score past 500k. This is on normal, don’t know if it works on other settings.
One last question: how much of getting good at shmups do you think is down to raw talent and how much to practice? I’ve been mulling over getting an arcade stick, as I’m a gamepad peasant (worse still, I use the analogue stick as the d pad kills my thumb) but how hard is it to adjust? Given I’m very low tier, would it even be worth it for me?
Anyways, hope the score thing is useful.
New on here, though I’ve lurked for many years. Shoutouts to some of you shmup gods I watch on the toob (Icarus, zaarock, stg weekly et al.)
I’m just a keen amateur, and was super chuffed just to get a normal difficulty no miss. I’ve been loving it so far. One point I think worth making is that it’s actually quite a welcoming game for the more scrubby like myself. Lots of different difficulties means you don’t have to be god tier to get anywhere. It’s the first r type I’ve played since the port of 1 on the Amiga in 1987. Man, I’m probably the oldest here (50 next year!)
The main reason I posted is I’ve found a score exploit/secret bonus/ glitch. Apologies if this is already known, but couldn’t find it anywhere online: In 7.2, if you kill the 2 minibosses when they are joined and coming in from the left in the second phase ( I used the Leo 2 bit charge attack after weakening them in the first phase) as soon as they appear, you get an extra 300k! I can replicate this reliably on PS4 Pro. Give it a try, it takes my 7.2 score past 500k. This is on normal, don’t know if it works on other settings.
One last question: how much of getting good at shmups do you think is down to raw talent and how much to practice? I’ve been mulling over getting an arcade stick, as I’m a gamepad peasant (worse still, I use the analogue stick as the d pad kills my thumb) but how hard is it to adjust? Given I’m very low tier, would it even be worth it for me?
Anyways, hope the score thing is useful.
Re: R-Type Final2
What version? I have the crowdfunding physical Japanese Switch version. I checked the Japanese eshop and it says that the DLC stages don't release until June 4th even though they are already available on the US eshop and on the Japanese PSN store, where I already bought them and played them.NAVVARR wrote:Pledge ¥11,000 or more
PHYSICAL COPY + SPECIAL GOODS
That was my Kickstarter pledge- does that get me any downloadable content - so far nothing has arrived online.
Actually, now that I think about it, they aren't on GOG, either.
Oops, I lied. They are there on GOG now, it seems. I just hadn't downloaded them yet. It also seems that I can no longer see the game on GOG due to my Japanese IP address or something. Strange, as I bought it from the game's page and now I get redirected to their top page whenever I try to look at that page or any of the DLC.
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Sengoku Strider
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Re: R-Type Final2
I don't know what it was like pre-patch, but post-patch the Switch version still takes 8-10 seconds to load you back to a checkpoint. It's not that big a deal to me, I've played plenty of games over the years which took that long or longer so my brain knows to just kind of tune out & tune back in when it loads. But it's still kind of absurd. There's no way the geometry here should be taxing a system that runs Breath of the Wild & The Witcher 3 that much.
Re: R-Type Final2
Steven wrote:What version? I have the crowdfunding physical Japanese Switch version. I checked the Japanese eshop and it says that the DLC stages don't release until June 4th even though they are already available on the US eshop and on the Japanese PSN store, where I already bought them and played them.NAVVARR wrote:Pledge ¥11,000 or more
PHYSICAL COPY + SPECIAL GOODS
That was my Kickstarter pledge- does that get me any downloadable content - so far nothing has arrived online.
Actually, now that I think about it, they aren't on GOG, either.
Oops, I lied. They are there on GOG now, it seems. I just hadn't downloaded them yet. It also seems that I can no longer see the game on GOG due to my Japanese IP address or something. Strange, as I bought it from the game's page and now I get redirected to their top page whenever I try to look at that page or any of the DLC.
I've got the PS4 version. I'll hang off buying any downloadable content. Been unlock the ships quite successfully- up to around 42 now.
hoots mon- crivvens, help ma boab
Re: R-Type Final2
My guess is that they didn't spend that much time to customize it for Switch. Downside of porting everything at once from the same engine.Sengoku Strider wrote:I don't know what it was like pre-patch, but post-patch the Switch version still takes 8-10 seconds to load you back to a checkpoint. It's not that big a deal to me, I've played plenty of games over the years which took that long or longer so my brain knows to just kind of tune out & tune back in when it loads. But it's still kind of absurd. There's no way the geometry here should be taxing a system that runs Breath of the Wild & The Witcher 3 that much.
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DenimDemon
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Re: R-Type Final2
According an email reponse I got from Grazella they will update performance on Switch version. Lets see.
Sent from my EML-L29 using Tapatalk
Sent from my EML-L29 using Tapatalk
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Sly Cherry Chunks
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- Location: Colin's Bargain Basement. Everything must go.
Re: R-Type Final2
Seriously? Nothing on the backer's website?NAVVARR wrote:Pledge ¥11,000 or more
PHYSICAL COPY + SPECIAL GOODS
That was my Kickstarter pledge- does that get me any downloadable content - so far nothing has arrived online.
Re: R-Type Final2
Physical or digital? I managed to get my Switch physical right away, it basically showed up in my mailbox on launch day, and I saw a bunch of tweets from others who got theirs at the same time. But I've heard some have seen delays in different countries/regions due to customs, or other shipping issues.EmperorIng wrote:Has anyone else not gotten their backer copy yet? I'm starting to be at a loss as to what my options are other than bugging their support all the time.
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Sengoku Strider
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Re: R-Type Final2
Which is weird, because I'd have to think that's where the bulk of their sales are going to come from.MJR wrote:My guess is that they didn't spend that much time to customize it for Switch. Downside of porting everything at once from the same engine.
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Mortificator
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Re: R-Type Final2
I like the description of if from the Final 1 personality quiz...
For you, you who hold fast, never forgetting what is important to you, we recommend the Sweet Memories.
The Illusion Wave Cannon is nothing more or less than the memory of the history of mankind.
It is with this awesome power that it annihilates the Bydo.
RegalSin wrote:You can't even drive across the country Naked anymore
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Herr Schatten
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Re: R-Type Final2
I think that's it, mostly. However, it seems to throw in the occasional erratic movement at random. I have settled on a strategy of keeping the force detached, thus letting it clear the screen of little fish, which makes avoiding the big one quite easy. It times out on me more often than not, but at least it's a reliable way to get past it.MJR wrote:I felt it was just the classic get-away-from-line-of-fire pattern, meaning that you have to bait it and launch the force from time to time in the middle of the swarm.Herr Schatten wrote:Is there a similar hint system in place that makes it possible to predict the movement of the stage 5 boss? Or can you maybe lead it in sone way or another?
Currently working on the stage 6.2 boss. I'm not sure yet if it's better to stay at the top of the screen, trying to time out while avoiding the homing projectiles or playing aggressively to kill it quickly.
Re: R-Type Final2 Hello, and a score exploit.
Hmm, I'm having trouble replicating this. Do you think you can upload video of it?decalcomania wrote:In 7.2, if you kill the 2 minibosses when they are joined and coming in from the left in the second phase ( I used the Leo 2 bit charge attack after weakening them in the first phase) as soon as they appear, you get an extra 300k! I can replicate this reliably on PS4 Pro. Give it a try, it takes my 7.2 score past 500k.
Also, I don't think this game is intense enough to get any gains from switching from pad to stick, but if I were to micro-dodge in some bullet hell, yeah I'd consider getting a stick.
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Re: R-Type Final2
Voxbox
Yeah, I’ll upload it to you tube with the time stamp. It’ll take a while tho coz my internet is dogshit. I’ll stick a link on here when it’s there.
You have to kill the 2 lovers while they’re still frenching and coming in from the left after they’ve flown around the screen and are coming back. They must have to die on the same frame or two I think. I hit them multiple times with the wave while they’re flying about, so when they come back a delta charge psy bit Leo 2 attack will finish them. You have to do it as soon as their hit box appears. If they die even a second or two apart it won’t work.
My current normal stage attack score is 597,633 for 7.2, and that’s without any force attack milking, I’m sure people with more than my limited skills can push it way higher. Got the 1 mill chievo doing this on my normal no miss 1cc. And only like .3% have that on psn. And just to emphasise, I’m rubbish!
Hope you can get it to work!
Yeah, I’ll upload it to you tube with the time stamp. It’ll take a while tho coz my internet is dogshit. I’ll stick a link on here when it’s there.
You have to kill the 2 lovers while they’re still frenching and coming in from the left after they’ve flown around the screen and are coming back. They must have to die on the same frame or two I think. I hit them multiple times with the wave while they’re flying about, so when they come back a delta charge psy bit Leo 2 attack will finish them. You have to do it as soon as their hit box appears. If they die even a second or two apart it won’t work.
My current normal stage attack score is 597,633 for 7.2, and that’s without any force attack milking, I’m sure people with more than my limited skills can push it way higher. Got the 1 mill chievo doing this on my normal no miss 1cc. And only like .3% have that on psn. And just to emphasise, I’m rubbish!
Hope you can get it to work!
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Re: R-Type Final2
I was so confused when the achievement popped, as last I’d looked I was at about only 600k. Watched the replay and noticed my score skyrocket. Have managed it a few times since.
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Zach Keene
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Re: R-Type Final2
Not that I know of but I haven't spent as much time on that one.Herr Schatten wrote:Interesting. I wasn't aware of that. Is there a similar hint system in place that makes it possible to predict the movement of the stage 5 boss? Or can you maybe lead it in sone way or another?Zach Keene wrote:Don't know if anyone's mentioned this but you can predict the path of the stage 2.0 bosses based on their color. Red = counterclockwise (will head for top path out of the right-side hatch), white = clockwise (will head for bottom out of the hatch)
They do love to switch colors/paths on the fly, or just stall entirely (at least on R-Typer) so watch out for that.
My FAQs: http://arcanelore.net/
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Re: R-Type Final2 7.2 score exploit on killing demonic lover
Actually, watching my replay again, the first time I had it happen I killed them late and still got 300k. Maybe it’s totally random and I was just cargo-culting that shit. Disregard the stuff about killing them instantly, anyway. I’m wondering if it’s some weird interaction of the psy bits acting like a super fast version of the force contact damage scoring?
I’m not too technical I’m afraid, so it’s all guesswork.
Anyway, I’ll post a link to the vid soon.
I’m not too technical I’m afraid, so it’s all guesswork.
Anyway, I’ll post a link to the vid soon.
Re: R-Type Final2
I played a fair share of the R-Type Final 2, and I even backed only for digital game (plus the bonus additional stages). While I am impressed by the content of ships to unlock, I do feel concerned that the game suffers from visually unfinished elements and a few gameplay elements that are not utilized.
One, the dose system does not feel as integral beyond being an emergency super damager. I like to test how much I can get away with absorbing shots with the force pod, with tentacle being the best at that niche. Even on higher difficulties, they simply reduce the absorption rate to the point of being completely useless and much better off simply firing at things.
As for the "grinding for unlockables" part, it seems that the resource distribution does not matter too much on difficulty tiers from Practice to R-typer since the percentage rate change is small to the point that I feel I want to clear away the game at Practice mode (Do not be fooled by that since there will still be hard obstacles ahead) since boss hp drains the fastest.
As I mentioned about the visual elements like others, it seems that the camera bobbing at some angles make the play field quite distorting, especially at stage 3, which a lot of problems persist, ranging from bullets that come out of nowhere (starting at Bydo if not taking out wave enemies soon at the two cover areas with power-up drone dropping a red one) to the very lack of shading to differentiate the playing field. I even got fooled to believe that both foreground background enemies, not from a clear source of non-playable area, can be hit or not hit until they reach the same layer as the player. I really hate the fact there is no use of lighting or shadows to differentiate the non-playable areas.
At least I can tolerate some visually difficult parts to try to clear the game at least once.
One, the dose system does not feel as integral beyond being an emergency super damager. I like to test how much I can get away with absorbing shots with the force pod, with tentacle being the best at that niche. Even on higher difficulties, they simply reduce the absorption rate to the point of being completely useless and much better off simply firing at things.
As for the "grinding for unlockables" part, it seems that the resource distribution does not matter too much on difficulty tiers from Practice to R-typer since the percentage rate change is small to the point that I feel I want to clear away the game at Practice mode (Do not be fooled by that since there will still be hard obstacles ahead) since boss hp drains the fastest.
As I mentioned about the visual elements like others, it seems that the camera bobbing at some angles make the play field quite distorting, especially at stage 3, which a lot of problems persist, ranging from bullets that come out of nowhere (starting at Bydo if not taking out wave enemies soon at the two cover areas with power-up drone dropping a red one) to the very lack of shading to differentiate the playing field. I even got fooled to believe that both foreground background enemies, not from a clear source of non-playable area, can be hit or not hit until they reach the same layer as the player. I really hate the fact there is no use of lighting or shadows to differentiate the non-playable areas.
At least I can tolerate some visually difficult parts to try to clear the game at least once.
Re: R-Type Final2
Spent the evening grinding a route out on Stage 6.1 on R-Typer 3 difficulty while chatting with peeps on stream.
Finally got a functional one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_MaC_Cpb-0
Using the R-9A Arrowhead, so it should be usable with almost all ships.
Finally got a functional one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_MaC_Cpb-0
Using the R-9A Arrowhead, so it should be usable with almost all ships.
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DJ Incompetent
- Posts: 2373
- Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:28 pm
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Re: R-Type Final2
I saw the Switch version updated. They added a loading graphic when I die. I went to see if 3X was patched out. They actually worked more on it and added stuff. They changed the block color of destroyable building parts, added textures to only the interactable event buildings in the worm fight, and added collision detection so the Mecha and boss fights are playable now. The game still hangs indefinitely after completion.
What a strange videogame.
Spoiler
They added a new phase to the boss fight. It is a fun!
What a strange videogame.
@shmups | superplaymixes Reworked Game Soundtracks | livestreamin'
______________________
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DenimDemon
- Posts: 318
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Re: R-Type Final2
My Switch version is 1.03. Wasn't that already before? Like at least a week?DJ Incompetent wrote:I saw the Switch version updated. They added a loading graphic when I die. I went to see if 3X was patched out. They actually worked more on it and added stuff. They changed the block color of destroyable building parts, added textures to only the interactable event buildings in the worm fight, and added collision detection so the Mecha and boss fights are playable now.The game still hangs indefinitely after completion.Spoiler
They added a new phase to the boss fight. It is a fun!
What a strange videogame.
Sent from my EML-L29 using Tapatalk
Re: R-Type Final2 Hello, and a score exploit.
Welcome to the forum and interesting trick you found. 7.2. path is the only one I haven't had time to explore but I will be on lookout for this.decalcomania wrote:Hello all
New on here, though I’ve lurked for many years. Shoutouts to some of you shmup gods I watch on the toob (Icarus, zaarock, stg weekly et al.)
I’m just a keen amateur, and was super chuffed just to get a normal difficulty no miss. I’ve been loving it so far. One point I think worth making is that it’s actually quite a welcoming game for the more scrubby like myself. Lots of different difficulties means you don’t have to be god tier to get anywhere. It’s the first r type I’ve played since the port of 1 on the Amiga in 1987. Man, I’m probably the oldest here (50 next year!)
The main reason I posted is I’ve found a score exploit/secret bonus/ glitch. Apologies if this is already known, but couldn’t find it anywhere online: In 7.2, if you kill the 2 minibosses when they are joined and coming in from the left in the second phase ( I used the Leo 2 bit charge attack after weakening them in the first phase) as soon as they appear, you get an extra 300k! I can replicate this reliably on PS4 Pro. Give it a try, it takes my 7.2 score past 500k. This is on normal, don’t know if it works on other settings.
One last question: how much of getting good at shmups do you think is down to raw talent and how much to practice? I’ve been mulling over getting an arcade stick, as I’m a gamepad peasant (worse still, I use the analogue stick as the d pad kills my thumb) but how hard is it to adjust? Given I’m very low tier, would it even be worth it for me?
Anyways, hope the score thing is useful.
As I'm 47 currently, I don't feel that you are impossibly old to play shmups. More like at exactly right age
I always prefer to joystick to gamepads, but this one has been quite playable even without in all platforms (I bought this for Switch and PC, and got digital backer code for PS4). However, if I choose to play more for score/higher difficulties, I might attach my X-Arcade to PC - I think this game needs sharp maneuvers time to time :p
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ZaKa-tokyobassist
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Re: R-Type Final2
Stage Pass Voucher email received for PS4 copies. Still didn't receive a code.
PSN: tokyobassist
Fighting/SHMUPS/Run N' Gun/Action/Horror/Stealth Games/Arcade Racers/Rail Shooters/Gaming Lore
Fighting/SHMUPS/Run N' Gun/Action/Horror/Stealth Games/Arcade Racers/Rail Shooters/Gaming Lore
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Samildanach
- Posts: 200
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Re: R-Type Final2
Have you checked the Team R- Type website (click on Settings once you are in)? Your code should hopefully be posted there.ZaKa-tokyobassist wrote:Stage Pass Voucher email received for PS4 copies. Still didn't receive a code.
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ZaKa-tokyobassist
- Posts: 170
- Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2013 6:07 pm
Re: R-Type Final2
They added the PS4 StagePass tab and nothing there. No edit button. Nothing.Samildanach wrote:Have you checked the Team R- Type website (click on Settings once you are in)? Your code should hopefully be posted there.ZaKa-tokyobassist wrote:Stage Pass Voucher email received for PS4 copies. Still didn't receive a code.
PSN: tokyobassist
Fighting/SHMUPS/Run N' Gun/Action/Horror/Stealth Games/Arcade Racers/Rail Shooters/Gaming Lore
Fighting/SHMUPS/Run N' Gun/Action/Horror/Stealth Games/Arcade Racers/Rail Shooters/Gaming Lore
Re: R-Type Final2
My Switch version (JP physical) has definitely been 1.0.2 for over a week and it says it's the latest one.DenimDemon wrote:My Switch version is 1.03. Wasn't that already before? Like at least a week?DJ Incompetent wrote:I saw the Switch version updated. They added a loading graphic when I die. I went to see if 3X was patched out. They actually worked more on it and added stuff. They changed the block color of destroyable building parts, added textures to only the interactable event buildings in the worm fight, and added collision detection so the Mecha and boss fights are playable now.The game still hangs indefinitely after completion.Spoiler
They added a new phase to the boss fight. It is a fun!
What a strange videogame.
The game also never hangs indefinitely after completion for me. Weird.
No matter how good a game is, somebody will always hate it. No matter how bad a game is, somebody will always love it.
My videos
My videos
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Re: R-Type Final2 score exploit
Cheers MJR
I’m less sure how to trigger the extra points than I was. I’ll do some more experimenting and see what I can find. I can’t get it to work on Bydo, so may be just normal diff only. It’ll be a few days before I can upload the first time it happened. Thanks 8m internet! They may find it and patch it out I guess.
Thanks for the welcome and advice dude. Re the stick, I was thinking more generally for shmups, the gamepad seems fine for this.
Been playing off and on for many years, wish I still had my 360, the PS4’s been a bit limited for stgs. I’ll never be at the level of a lot of you guys, though it’s been great watching folks on here’s YouTube stuff over the years.
Generally prefer old school stuff to danmaku. Had a lot of fun lately with Thunder cross. A pretty easy 1cc and loops on the old jap version. The music is great.
I’m less sure how to trigger the extra points than I was. I’ll do some more experimenting and see what I can find. I can’t get it to work on Bydo, so may be just normal diff only. It’ll be a few days before I can upload the first time it happened. Thanks 8m internet! They may find it and patch it out I guess.
Thanks for the welcome and advice dude. Re the stick, I was thinking more generally for shmups, the gamepad seems fine for this.
Been playing off and on for many years, wish I still had my 360, the PS4’s been a bit limited for stgs. I’ll never be at the level of a lot of you guys, though it’s been great watching folks on here’s YouTube stuff over the years.
Generally prefer old school stuff to danmaku. Had a lot of fun lately with Thunder cross. A pretty easy 1cc and loops on the old jap version. The music is great.
Re: R-Type Final2
ZaKa-tokyobassist wrote:They added the PS4 StagePass tab and nothing there. No edit button. Nothing.Samildanach wrote:Have you checked the Team R- Type website (click on Settings once you are in)? Your code should hopefully be posted there.ZaKa-tokyobassist wrote:Stage Pass Voucher email received for PS4 copies. Still didn't receive a code.
Yip, I have that too- no code so far.
hoots mon- crivvens, help ma boab
Re: R-Type Final2
GOG system requirements for the PC version are asking for a GTX 950. But GOG requirements are at least 50% baloney... So has anyone tried the game on that video card or a lesser one? And how did it go?
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Sengoku Strider
- Posts: 2225
- Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:21 am
Re: R-Type Final2 Hello, and a score exploit.
The #1 Street Fighter player in the world, Punk, is winning tournaments on a Dual Shock 4. Smug, another high level player is still using a 360 pad through a converter, which is absolute garbage, but he's very consistently hitting 1-frame links with it. And Luffy won EVO 2014 using a PS1 pad through a converter - not even a dual shock, the OG original. So honestly, I think the arcade stick debate is a whole lot of not much. I can't think of any shmup that places the type of constant reaction demands on an input device that fighting game tournament play does (given how much of successful shmup play is memorization).decalcomania wrote: One last question: how much of getting good at shmups do you think is down to raw talent and how much to practice? I’ve been mulling over getting an arcade stick, as I’m a gamepad peasant (worse still, I use the analogue stick as the d pad kills my thumb) but how hard is it to adjust? Given I’m very low tier, would it even be worth it for me?
That said, I do own arcade sticks and enjoy using them. And I think the list of controllers I'd put ahead of my RAP V is a very short one. But the Saturn dpad has raised edges that allow for instant reaction as your thumb tilts, as well as a very high degree of precision, so it's hard to argue against that classic.
As for raw skill vs. practice, practice definitely improves whatever you might think of as raw skill. Your eyes learn to focus more broadly and see more of the playfield at once. Your brain gets better at rapidly calculating angles and bullet trajectories. These things all add up to better reaction times.
Re: R-Type Final2 Hello, and a score exploit.
Yeah, it doesn’t really matter what your control preference is as long as it’s not hindering you. These days for me the arcade stick is more a preferential thing as it improves the enjoyment of some games. But with platforms like Saturn, the dpad is so damn good that I never feel the need to bust out a stick.Sengoku Strider wrote:The #1 Street Fighter player in the world, Punk, is winning tournaments on a Dual Shock 4. Smug, another high level player is still using a 360 pad through a converter, which is absolute garbage, but he's very consistently hitting 1-frame links with it. And Luffy won EVO 2014 using a PS1 pad through a converter - not even a dual shock, the OG original. So honestly, I think the arcade stick debate is a whole lot of not much. I can't think of any shmup that places the type of constant reaction demands on an input device that fighting game tournament play does (given how much of successful shmup play is memorization).decalcomania wrote: One last question: how much of getting good at shmups do you think is down to raw talent and how much to practice? I’ve been mulling over getting an arcade stick, as I’m a gamepad peasant (worse still, I use the analogue stick as the d pad kills my thumb) but how hard is it to adjust? Given I’m very low tier, would it even be worth it for me?
That said, I do own arcade sticks and enjoy using them. And I think the list of controllers I'd put ahead of my RAP V is a very short one. But the Saturn dpad has raised edges that allow for instant reaction as your thumb tilts, as well as a very high degree of precision, so it's hard to argue against that classic.
As for raw skill vs. practice, practice definitely improves whatever you might think of as raw skill. Your eyes learn to focus more broadly and see more of the playfield at once. Your brain gets better at rapidly calculating angles and bullet trajectories. These things all add up to better reaction times.
There was a time I forced myself to use sticks (particularly with fighters) because if you wanted to go out and compete, you were playing on sticks in an actual arcade. You 100% had to be comfortable with them if you wanted to stand a chance. Nowadays things are different.