OSSC Pro

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marqs
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by marqs »

naz wrote:Thanks for the video, could you share if the scanlines settings will have some new options or if it will be a direct port from the ossc classic?? (all I want is to use custom settings on both vertical and horizontal lines at the same time, right now horizontal settings disable vertical for that line).
BuckoA51 wrote:Scanlines are sorely missing from the current build, I'm sure Marqs will have them implemented soon though.
Scanline settings will be initially implemented as in Classic, but there is naturally opportunities to improve them later. Now that scaler mode framework is in place and basic framelock options added, focus will soon switch to implementing postprocessing settings (scanlines, mask, BFI etc.) and profiles so that the firmware can be tailored towards release condition.
bni wrote:Will it be possible to do this in OSSC Pro:

https://misterfpga.org/viewtopic.php?t=2227

I mean maybe not automatic per game setting like in that link, but manually cropping the image before 5x is applied.
That is already possible on the Classic, but will have better display compatibility with Pro.
DatMonkey
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by DatMonkey »

Now that the Pro seems to support 1440p resolution, would it be possible to include 1440p-->1440i conversion? 1440i is not a standard but it just so happens to work with the BKM-68X on A-series monitors, making it the highest possible picture quality one can get from those sets.
Last edited by DatMonkey on Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
fernan1234
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by fernan1234 »

DatMonkey wrote:Now that the Pro seems to support 1440p resolution, would it be possible to include 1440p-->1440i conversion? 1440i is not a standard but it just so happens to work with the BKM-68X on A-series monitors, making it the hightest possible picture quality one can get from those sets.
This would be neat. Out of curiosity, what sources that can output 1440i have you used when you found out about this? I think this capability should also apply to the analogue inputs on the other multiformat monitors of the D-series.
DatMonkey
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by DatMonkey »

fernan1234 wrote:
DatMonkey wrote:Now that the Pro seems to support 1440p resolution, would it be possible to include 1440p-->1440i conversion? 1440i is not a standard but it just so happens to work with the BKM-68X on A-series monitors, making it the hightest possible picture quality one can get from those sets.
This would be neat. Out of curiosity, what sources that can output 1440i have you used when you found out about this? I think this capability should also apply to the analogue inputs on the other multiformat monitors of the D-series.
PC running 1440i via custom resolution. Unfortunately it doesn't work on the D-series BVMs.
SuperSpongo
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by SuperSpongo »

Yes it does, it worked on my D32 with CRT_emudriver.
DatMonkey
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by DatMonkey »

SuperSpongo wrote:Yes it does, it worked on my D32 with CRT_emudriver.
Ok that's great news! So the use-case for 1440i is even stronger then.

The drawbacks of using a PC to accomplish this are that newer GPUs no longer support interlaced resolutions and Nvidia forces a blurring anti-flickering filter when doing so. Having the possibility to feed the OSSC Pro direct 1440p to convert it to 1440i would be a game-changer in my book.
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ThaPhatCat
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by ThaPhatCat »

marqs wrote:
Harrumph wrote:I’m sure SCART vs DE-15 is an interesting and valid discussion, but perhaps not in this thread?
Yeah, the board has both so it's up to the user which one(s) to select. It's worth mentioning that I've utilized normally unused/reserved pins of SCART and HD15 to include support for 'missing' sync types of each other. Essentially video-level sync input is added on HD-15 (pin 4) and H+V syncs for SCART (pins 12 and 10) so various sources can be connected to either one with passive adapters.

I've recently run some performance tests and 2560x1440@60Hz seems to run fine already on current prototype even though it goes beyond specs of 3 different chips. The plan is now to upgrade HDMI TX (SiI1136) and FPGA (+1 speed grade), but 2560x1440@60Hz is still likely to remain an unofficial extra while 1920x1440@60Hz will be one that is guaranteed to work across all boards and conditions.
Hi marqs, from BuckoA51 YouTube video about OSSC Pro we do know that the hardware is finished, and you are working on firmware features. But I couldn't find a confirmation that you upgraded the HDMI TX chip to Sil1136 and bumped the FPGA to the next best thing to achieve 2560x1440@60Hz.

So is it Sil1136? If yes it would be awesome for other non retro gamer aplications - to broader it's potential market.
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AyeYoYoYO
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by AyeYoYoYO »

So with the RetroTink 5x Pro having much more latency/lag (4ms - 20+ ms) than it’s 2x predecessors (0.053ms), and discontinuing it’s smoothing algorithm...

Will the OSSC Pro have a mode which can hit all of these points out the park?:

1. Flicker-free 480i upscaling
2. HQ4x+ Smoothing option
3. Operation under 1ms (original RetroTink2x classic did its thing in 0.053 ms)
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marqs
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by marqs »

ThaPhatCat wrote:Hi marqs, from BuckoA51 YouTube video about OSSC Pro we do know that the hardware is finished, and you are working on firmware features. But I couldn't find a confirmation that you upgraded the HDMI TX chip to Sil1136 and bumped the FPGA to the next best thing to achieve 2560x1440@60Hz.

So is it Sil1136? If yes it would be awesome for other non retro gamer aplications - to broader it's potential market.
The latest prototype has Sil1136 and one speed grade higher FPGA, thus making 2560x1440@60Hz more realistic goal. 1920x1080@120Hz is also on the cards although 280MHz IO is quite hard target for Cyclone V, but there is always the fallback option to TX pixel repetition (effectively 960x1080 with 2x horizontal integer scale) if it doesn't work reliably across the range of boards. To people who plan to push input side to the limits, it's worth remembering that both ADC and HDMI RX are specced to 165MHz so 2560x1440@60Hz via any input is unlikely to work, but 1920x1440@60Hz with reduced blanking should be OK as it's just 10% over the specs.
AyeYoYoYO wrote:Will the OSSC Pro have a mode which can hit all of these points out the park?:

1. Flicker-free 480i upscaling
2. HQ4x+ Smoothing option
3. Operation under 1ms (original RetroTink2x classic did its thing in 0.053 ms)
As described in OP, there are 3 different operating modes which come with different features and limitations. Perhaps the following preliminary table of goals (i.e. don't expect everything to be implemented upon release) gives a better idea:

R= & Pure LM & Adaptive LM & Scaler - framelock & Scaler - no framelock R=Latency & max 2 lines & max 40 lines & max ~1 frame & 1-2 frames R=Display compatibility & Variable & Very high & Very high & Full R=Deinterlace alg. & Bob Noninterlace restore & Bob Noninterlace restore & Bob Weave Motion adaptive & Bob Weave Motion adaptive R=Scaling alg. & X: oversample, integer Y: integer & X: oversample, integer Y: integer & X: oversample, polyphase Y: polyphase & X: oversample, polyphase Y: polyphase R=Input mode switch delay & Very fast & Very fast & Fast & Instant R=Transformations & Pan & Pan & Zoom Pan Rotate & Zoom Pan Rotate R=Postprocessing opt. & Scanlines Masking & Scanlines Masking & Scanlines Masking BFI & Scanlines Masking BFI
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NormalFish
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by NormalFish »

BuckoA51 wrote:I made a quick video of some of the OSSC pro's new features and posted it to my Youtube here:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THyhfHe5Jz0
I had missed this before, but a straight capture of motion adaptive deinterlacing with nearest neighbour scaling and no youtube compression would be nice to see. It'll happen eventually I'm sure, but with the 5X videos in the wild now, that's the comparison that matters most to me personally, if you get some time to try it out and have an appropriate capture card.

Regardless, appreciate the footage. Had forgotten some of the featureset, looks good.
PearlJammzz
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by PearlJammzz »

marqs wrote:
ThaPhatCat wrote:Hi marqs, from BuckoA51 YouTube video about OSSC Pro we do know that the hardware is finished, and you are working on firmware features. But I couldn't find a confirmation that you upgraded the HDMI TX chip to Sil1136 and bumped the FPGA to the next best thing to achieve 2560x1440@60Hz.

So is it Sil1136? If yes it would be awesome for other non retro gamer aplications - to broader it's potential market.
The latest prototype has Sil1136 and one speed grade higher FPGA, thus making 2560x1440@60Hz more realistic goal. 1920x1080@120Hz is also on the cards although 280MHz IO is quite hard target for Cyclone V, but there is always the fallback option to TX pixel repetition (effectively 960x1080 with 2x horizontal integer scale) if it doesn't work reliably across the range of boards. To people who plan to push input side to the limits, it's worth remembering that both ADC and HDMI RX are specced to 165MHz so 2560x1440@60Hz via any input is unlikely to work, but 1920x1440@60Hz with reduced blanking should be OK as it's just 10% over the specs.
AyeYoYoYO wrote:Will the OSSC Pro have a mode which can hit all of these points out the park?:

1. Flicker-free 480i upscaling
2. HQ4x+ Smoothing option
3. Operation under 1ms (original RetroTink2x classic did its thing in 0.053 ms)
As described in OP, there are 3 different operating modes which come with different features and limitations. Perhaps the following preliminary table of goals (i.e. don't expect everything to be implemented upon release) gives a better idea:

R= & Pure LM & Adaptive LM & Scaler - framelock & Scaler - no framelock R=Latency & max 2 lines & max 40 lines & max ~1 frame & 1-2 frames R=Display compatibility & Variable & Very high & Very high & Full R=Deinterlace alg. & Bob Noninterlace restore & Bob Noninterlace restore & Bob Weave Motion adaptive & Bob Weave Motion adaptive R=Scaling alg. & X: oversample, integer Y: integer & X: oversample, integer Y: integer & X: oversample, polyphase Y: polyphase & X: oversample, polyphase Y: polyphase R=Input mode switch delay & Very fast & Very fast & Fast & Instant R=Transformations & Pan & Pan & Zoom Pan Rotate & Zoom Pan Rotate R=Postprocessing opt. & Scanlines Masking & Scanlines Masking & Scanlines Masking BFI & Scanlines Masking BFI

BFI, interesting! Could this be used as a 1080p/120 output to get great BFI performance on a TV?
yoshiyukiblade
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by yoshiyukiblade »

marqs wrote:To people who plan to push input side to the limits, it's worth remembering that both ADC and HDMI RX are specced to 165MHz so 2560x1440@60Hz via any input is unlikely to work, but 1920x1440@60Hz with reduced blanking should be OK as it's just 10% over the specs.
I'm interested in pushing the limits by oversampling 240p sources like the SNES. I like to do 8x oversampling on the original OSSC to see subpixel artifacts in the signal, though the maximum active area is currently 1920 and I need 2048 to see the full frame. It looks like the Pro can realistically do 16x oversampling, but I don't know if any capture or display devices will be able to handle the oddball resolution. Looking forward to see what the Pro can do.
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Odolwa
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by Odolwa »

How come no s-video support?
ldeveraux
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by ldeveraux »

Odolwa wrote:How come no s-video support?
I'd assume because it's a very limited use case and the RetroTink2x and Koryuu work well enough.
RocketBelt
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by RocketBelt »

ldeveraux wrote:
Odolwa wrote:How come no s-video support?
I'd assume because it's a very limited use case and the RetroTink2x and Koryuu work well enough.
Err... N64 is a very limited use case?
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vol.2
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by vol.2 »

RocketBelt wrote:
Err... N64 is a very limited use case?
Odolwa wrote:How come no s-video support?
No, that's not quite it. There is a GPIO header intended for an AV-input board, but it's not currently in the base design. It's for a future update or possibly someone in the community will just build it. Read the first post of this thread.
ldeveraux
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by ldeveraux »

RocketBelt wrote:
ldeveraux wrote:
Odolwa wrote:How come no s-video support?
I'd assume because it's a very limited use case and the RetroTink2x and Koryuu work well enough.
Err... N64 is a very limited use case?
Why would you use s-video from an n64 when so many better RGB options are available?
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Odolwa
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by Odolwa »

I was thinking more along the lines of S video VCRs/VHS players. I agree, I wouldn’t use an N64 for S video anyway.
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Guspaz
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by Guspaz »

ldeveraux wrote:Why would you use s-video from an n64 when so many better RGB options are available?
Name one better RGB option for the N64 that doesn't require a soldering iron. S-video works out of the box.
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Josh128
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by Josh128 »

TBH, S-Video on N64 is 97% the quality of RGB. Same sharpness, just a bit less popping colors. Honestly RGB isnt worth the trouble, IMO, but I installed an amp anyway. I used the little cheap sub $10 amp. My buddy used a ~$100 N64 RGB and when we compared on my 27" Trinitron Wega, there was no difference. The "sharp" setting on the N64 RGB made so little difference we had to study scenes to see any difference ON vs OFF, almost unnoticeable.
fernan1234
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by fernan1234 »

S-video is more than the N64, or more niche systems that do S-video at most and for which there are no RGB mods, like the PC-FX. There's a surprising number of people who have all S-video setups with commercial TV sets, and probably more than a few would like to transition into scaling and flat panels under the right conditions.

That said, it's been clear since day 1 that composite and S-video support built-in is not in the vision of the OSSC Pro, and that's fine. I'm sure there will be add-ons for it, and there's also the 5X and the upcoming Morph to take care of that well enough.
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Guspaz
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by Guspaz »

Josh128 wrote:TBH, S-Video on N64 is 97% the quality of RGB. Same sharpness, just a bit less popping colors. Honestly RGB isnt worth the trouble, IMO, but I installed an amp anyway. I used the little cheap sub $10 amp. My buddy used a ~$100 N64 RGB and when we compared on my 27" Trinitron Wega, there was no difference. The "sharp" setting on the N64 RGB made so little difference we had to study scenes to see any difference ON vs OFF, almost unnoticeable.
The trick is that the cheap RGB amp for the N64 only works on a small subset of them, AFAIK.
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maxtherabbit
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by maxtherabbit »

Josh128 wrote:TBH, S-Video on N64 is 97% the quality of RGB. Same sharpness, just a bit less popping colors. Honestly RGB isnt worth the trouble, IMO, but I installed an amp anyway. I used the little cheap sub $10 amp. My buddy used a ~$100 N64 RGB and when we compared on my 27" Trinitron Wega, there was no difference. The "sharp" setting on the N64 RGB made so little difference we had to study scenes to see any difference ON vs OFF, almost unnoticeable.
It was 100% worth the effort of installing the basic RGB drive amp. The color fidelity is much better. You're right though I wouldn't spend the money if I had one of the systems that didn't support the cheap mod
bahamutfan64
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by bahamutfan64 »

I dunno man, to my eyes there's definitely a noticeable difference between the de-blur on and off when using the advanced RGB mods, on both a PVM and on an HDTV via the OSSC.
ldeveraux
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by ldeveraux »

Guspaz wrote:
ldeveraux wrote:Why would you use s-video from an n64 when so many better RGB options are available?
Name one better RGB option for the N64 that doesn't require a soldering iron. S-video works out of the box.
Sure, but crap in = crap out. Why spend all that money on an OSSC Pro if you're going to send a trash signal to it?
shroom2k
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by shroom2k »

ldeveraux wrote:
Guspaz wrote:
ldeveraux wrote:Why would you use s-video from an n64 when so many better RGB options are available?
Name one better RGB option for the N64 that doesn't require a soldering iron. S-video works out of the box.
Sure, but crap in = crap out. Why spend all that money on an OSSC Pro if you're going to send a trash signal to it?
It might sound odd, but for those of us who are not DIY-handy, buying an expensive piece of equipment online can be easier than finding and arranging things with a reliable modder, who may not be locally available.
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Guspaz
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by Guspaz »

ldeveraux wrote:
Guspaz wrote:
ldeveraux wrote:Why would you use s-video from an n64 when so many better RGB options are available?
Name one better RGB option for the N64 that doesn't require a soldering iron. S-video works out of the box.
Sure, but crap in = crap out. Why spend all that money on an OSSC Pro if you're going to send a trash signal to it?
You exaggerate the difference RGB makes over S-Video on the N64. It's subtle, and probably isn't worth the $200 it costs to get one installed, especially considering that pixel-accurate sample settings can provide the deblur functionality using S-Video.
fernan1234
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by fernan1234 »

Guspaz wrote:You exaggerate the difference RGB makes over S-Video on the N64. It's subtle, and probably isn't worth the $200 it costs to get one installed, especially considering that pixel-accurate sample settings can provide the deblur functionality using S-Video.
I've been hearing about this. It would be good to see comparisons between S-video or RGB without deblur + optimal sampling vs. RGB w/ deblur + generic sampling vs. RGB w/deblur + optimal sampling
ldeveraux
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by ldeveraux »

Guspaz wrote:
ldeveraux wrote:Sure, but crap in = crap out. Why spend all that money on an OSSC Pro if you're going to send a trash signal to it?
You exaggerate the difference RGB makes over S-Video on the N64. It's subtle, and probably isn't worth the $200 it costs to get one installed, especially considering that pixel-accurate sample settings can provide the deblur functionality using S-Video.
Yeah I was thinking more globally across all consoles, but you're absolutely right in the case of the N64. I almost regret doing it because there is no gain in quality but I can still connect it to my SCART switch.

But $200 for the N64RGB mod? etim sells them for $42 and you can get a SCART cable for max $50. Unless you're counting the cost of an installation service, which everybody should be doing themselves! :wink:
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Guspaz
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by Guspaz »

Tim's price, with the adapter and shipping, is closer to $65 USD, plus let's say a hundred bucks for an installation service (since the vast majority of people won't be able to install it themselves), plus the cost of shipping the console twice. Around two hundred bucks seems about right.
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