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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 9:13 am 


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Meanwhile ive clocked 50 hours on Switch with pack 2 and 3. Crossing fingers for a 3 Wonders release.

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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 1:26 pm 


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I have no idea where is this chug and stutter talk has come from, I've been playing this on Switch on handheld mode and it runs beautifully. First time I am able to enjoy Ghouls'n'ghosts arcade version emulated properly outside of Mame, as The capcom classics version on PS2 had the screen brightness botched to a point that background had almost disappeared, and had also that awful filtering applied on top. Apparently there was also version for PS1 on Capcom generation, but never seen it, so I dont know how good a port it is.


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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 2:40 pm 


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MJR wrote:
I have no idea where is this chug and stutter talk has come from, I've been playing this on Switch on handheld mode and it runs beautifully. First time I am able to enjoy Ghouls'n'ghosts arcade version emulated properly outside of Mame, as The capcom classics version on PS2 had the screen brightness botched to a point that background had almost disappeared, and had also that awful filtering applied on top. Apparently there was also version for PS1 on Capcom generation, but never seen it, so I dont know how good a port it is.


Glad it's not just me. I mean, I've noticed the odd stutter here and there but it's been so infrequent I'd have to be quite mad not to have bothered buying the comp.

Main complaints seem to be centred around 1943 and ProGear, I've spent little to no time on either so I can't comment. Giga Wing has the odd background element that seems a bit off, but it's nothing that affects it in real terms. Personally, I'm looking forward to the DLC.
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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 4:56 pm 


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I envy you two. I can't unsee it, and it destroys my ability to enjoy these games in any capacity.
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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 11:14 pm 



Joined: 12 Mar 2019
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MJR wrote:
Apparently there was also version for PS1 on Capcom generation, but never seen it, so I dont know how good a port it is.


Pretty good, actually, much like the Saturn version.


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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 3:25 am 



Joined: 14 Feb 2005
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The key was those versions had true low-res. I never imagined we would see such a step backwards when newer platforms launched.


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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 11:27 am 



Joined: 12 Mar 2019
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I'll always love how this was phrased in an old article on the subject - flat panels killed the video(game) star.

Though I believe flat panels are not the only ones to blame. The culture of upscaled pixels is sadly too expanded ever since the VGA days.


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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 2:10 pm 


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Yeah it's too bad in the future gamers will have no idea how good 240p games really looked on a good CRT.

I remember back in the day sourcing a couple brand new in box Hitachi arcade monitors for all of about 150 bucks each. I think they were the same as what was used in Japanese Neo Geo MVS cabs. They looked unbelievably good. Better than a Sony PVM which look way sharper with more distinct scanlines and smaller phosphors. Much better than the more common newer multi res 31 khz arcade monitors from Nanao etc. that are not purely meant for 15 kHz and 240p.

Something about those large, chunky and extremely colorful phosphors that let you know this is how arcade games were originally meant to be seen.

That being said I learned to get used to the pixel perfect look since I'd rather enjoy games in a convenient way than get caught up on hardware that is only going to get more expensive and harder to maintain over time.

Surprised how much I enjoy the Switch portable mode for 240p games since the pin sharp look suits the small screen, and its native 720p gives you an integer scale of 240 that fills the screen vertically unlike 1080p.

A lot of people may not realize that annoyingly it's impossible to dial in pixel perfect scaling on most of the Hamster ACA stuff, but you can on the Switch in portable mode. All the Neo Geo stuff for example looks flawless if you set scaling to 150% and keep the left and right overscan area viewable.


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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 3:49 pm 


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It's actually one of my enduring memories of youth - when consoles first started getting coverage over here, the way the screenshots always looked in C&VG, Mean Machines etc... all scanlines, pixels and eye-popping colour. Getting to see the NES fir the first time in a toy store was a world away from the Speccy and shitty B&W TV I was rocking at the time.

I've actually got a flat-screen CRT in someone's house awaiting collection as soon as I find room for it.
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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 6:14 pm 


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I totally agree with you when it comes CRT tv's, and true low-res 240p. Thats why I still have my old Sony flat trinitron CRT for my PS1/PS2/Saturn/PC-Engine stuff.

What I was really concerned about was how accurate Saturn/PS1 version of Ghouls'n'Ghosts is, as it is obviously a port. I would like to get Capcom Generations eventually, as the price does not seem to be too bad at the moment, and I got modded Saturn too.

What I REALLY would like to get is the original PCB, but sadly it's price seems to have tripled in the last ten years. Oh well, maybe some day. I do have a long-term goal of getting all my favourite Capcom games as PCB's.


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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 6:56 pm 


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viewtopic.php?f=3&t=37459

There was some discussion on the PS1/Saturn ports here.

Sound like PS Ghouls n Ghosts has a very dark image whereas Saturn is ok but slightly longer load times.

Ghosts n Goblins and Super GnG are cropped on Saturn but not on PS.


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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 8:05 pm 


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Rastan78 wrote:
https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=37459

There was some discussion on the PS1/Saturn ports here.

Sound like PS Ghouls n Ghosts has a very dark image whereas Saturn is ok but slightly longer load times.

Ghosts n Goblins and Super GnG are cropped on Saturn but not on PS.


Huh, sounds like none of the ports are really perfect then :/

I tried CAS on docked mode, and now I indeed did notice some stuttering which I did not notice on handheld mode. Only game where it did bother me was Progear, though I felt it was still fine on handheld.

I played quite many of the games on score attack, and I noticed many of them behaving quite differently compared to Capcom arcade classics or Capcom arcade cabinet. All games felt easier, on Ghosts'n'goblins the trolls were walking through walls quite often, some little things and pieces felt different. Also sound on Forgotten Worlds was bit weird, and on EN rom you were given a V-gun which was usually only given on japanese rom. What? What? I haven't done extensive research on Mame rom revisions so it's bit hard to decipher which versions of the roms they did use on this particular collection. It's not a big deal, but it certainly felt confusing.

And for the record, I feel that Capcom arcade cabinet played on CRT tv with display set to dot-by-dot mode is still the perfect way to experience many of these games at home, short of acquiring the actual PCB's. Not saying this collection is bad, it's certainly better than Capcom arcade classics on PS2, but it does not really hold candle to arcade cabinet by M2 (well that much was obvious anyway).

I wonder if the eventual versions for other consoles have smoother experience. Still, Switch should be powerful enough to emulate these old games.


Last edited by MJR on Thu May 06, 2021 6:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 8:27 pm 


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I did like the old arcade cabinet. It's just too bad we couldn't get the game selection of CAS on it back then. Since the 360 had VGA out at 480p, playing that way on a 31 kHz CRT with scanlines on was not a bad way to play as well.

One of the only oddities I remember there is that on Black Tiger, you would always get the same very favorable item drops at the start of a new run when they should be randomized.


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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 10:33 pm 


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I still keep my CRTs around for older games. Not only for the PQ, but to play lightgun games, as well. I recently bought a Sony Trinitron KV-13FS100 and I'm enjoying the picture via component, though it has an odd contrast setting that I had to turn waaaaay down.

I miss the days of ports. Aside from close to the AC ones on systems like Saturn, I also miss ones that play a bit different and have their own feel to them.


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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 5:16 am 



Joined: 21 Apr 2005
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That's probably the most notable part of Konami's home ports, that they'd add at least one completely new level and tweak mechanics to fit the platform as best they could. Many of them are still worth playing even when you have emulated arcade versions, e.g. Salamander/Life Force, Gradius, and especially Contra/Super C.


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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 6:42 am 


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Firehawke wrote:
That's probably the most notable part of Konami's home ports, that they'd add at least one completely new level and tweak mechanics to fit the platform as best they could. Many of them are still worth playing even when you have emulated arcade versions, e.g. Salamander/Life Force, Gradius, and especially Contra/Super C.


I think that was a feature that only appeared on PC-Engine ports, and it wasn't limited to Konami. R-Type port on PCE also had an extra boss on level 6, pretty cool one too. That's one of the reasons why I love PC-Engine so much.

BTW, try playing Castlevania: Rondo of blood first on PS4 and then on real PCE on CRT tv, there is day and night difference on the way the character controls. On PCE the response is immediate. On PCE mini the response is quite a lot better, but still not quite as good. Though this should not be surprise to anyone.

IDK if I miss the "feel" on ports really. Only "feel" I miss is the one I get when I play the original coin op. The port, or the emulation, either gets it or it doesn't. For the record, R-type on original PCB is the only version where the difficulty feels just right. I could say the same for Raiden DX. I think it's because they have their odd frame refresh rates.


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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 7:03 am 



Joined: 21 Apr 2005
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Nope, definitely not the case that it's limited to PCE-- Konami did it a lot with their NES and SNES ports too. Contra/Super C being one of the major instances on NES along with Life Force having two completely new stages. SNES-wise, Parodius also had at least one completely new stage.


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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 7:09 am 


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SMS R-Type also had some exclusive stuff, a hidden stage. R-Type PCE used a unique resolution 512x240, or something along those lines and looks especially nice on a CRT in component via the HD retrovision Genesis 2 cable.

I'll give Rondo a try with both Mister and Super SD System 3 on a CRT. Both should be nice and responsive.


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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 7:20 am 


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MJR wrote:
BTW, try playing Castlevania: Rondo of blood first on PS4 and then on real PCE on CRT tv, there is day and night difference on the way the character controls. On PCE the response is immediate. On PCE mini the response is quite a lot better, but still not quite as good. Though this should not be surprise to anyone.


I did this last summer (BenQ XL2411P a buddy handed down / random RCA, an old soldier that's seen some shit), and I was surprised at the lack of difference WRT response time. No-missed the bonus stage route with Richter on PS4, like I do on PCE, and couldn't detect anything amiss. The picture certainly wasn't as nice, nor would I ever be without my old gear, but the response was fine. So I stuck the monitor and PS4 full of games in a suitcase, and have been chipping away at my 1CC bucket list while my mountain of old consoles and games resides in a temperature-controlled environment facing North.

Not meaning to willy-wave WRT no-misses, just emphasising I won't handwave poor performance. If something's off, I'll notice. The hellish battlefield has no mercy, and so neither can we. Image

I actually avoided modern consoles, full-stop, for years on account of Mihara's infamous ACA Gradius video. (2+year gap, a long time to take the word of a confused elderly xenophobe :oops:) Took a punt at Belt Action Collection, despite Noodall's twitter claiming it had atrocious input lag. Not feeling it. Not sure what his method was.

I think there's at least some psychological effect here. I only got a PS4 for The Ninja Warriors Again, and only tried out ACA because Saigo no Nindou popped up, and I felt ambushed by my old nemesis. Image If Ryuichi-san was slicing my legs off mid-hop, I'd be back to ShmupMAME in a heartbeat.
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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 7:35 am 


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BIL wrote:
MJR wrote:
BTW, try playing Castlevania: Rondo of blood first on PS4 and then on real PCE on CRT tv, there is day and night difference on the way the character controls. On PCE the response is immediate. On PCE mini the response is quite a lot better, but still not quite as good. Though this should not be surprise to anyone.


I did this last summer (BenQ XL2411P a buddy handed down / random RCA, an old soldier that's seen some shit), and I was surprised at the lack of difference WRT response time. No-missed the bonus stage route with Richter on PS4, like I do on PCE, and couldn't detect anything amiss. The picture certainly wasn't as nice, nor would I ever be without my old gear, but the response was fine. So I stuck the monitor and PS4 full of games in a suitcase, and have been chipping away at my 1CC bucket list while my mountain of old consoles and games resides in a temperature-controlled environment facing North.

Not meaning to willy-wave WRT no-misses, just emphasising I won't handwave poor performance. If something's off, I'll notice. The hellish battlefield has no mercy, and so neither can we. Image

I actually avoided modern consoles, full-stop, for years on account of Mihara's infamous ACA Gradius video. (2+year gap, a long time to take the word of a confused elderly xenophobe :oops:) Took a punt at Belt Action Collection, despite Noodall's twitter claiming it had atrocious input lag. Not feeling it. Not sure what his method was.

I think there's at least some psychological effect here. I only got a PS4 for The Ninja Warriors Again, and only tried out ACA because Saigo no Nindou popped up, and I felt ambushed by my old nemesis. Image If Ryuichi-san was slicing my legs off mid-hop, I'd be back to ShmupMAME in a heartbeat.


Interesting. Looks like esports gaming monitor has certainly better response times than my OLED telly, though it's not half bad for the usual mainstream console games :) As for psychological effect, I had friend coming over who had played Rondo on PS4 at home, and when I handed him the PCE controller, he noticed the difference in response time immediately. It can mean that either his PS4 is connected to crappy display that adds lag, or that we both had placebo effect - mass psychosis! PCE CRT MANIA IMMINENT! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 8:09 am 


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I should also mention my control game (so to speak), Metal Slug XX. Feels gross. Image I'd seen reviews slamming its input lag on Steam, but thought I'd (again) take a punt. I write that idiom a lot, lately, doing most of my oldschool gaming on modern consoles. :lol:

It's not unplayable, but I find myself forced to play cautiously, even in seemingly harmless stages. Going back to the ACA MVS titles feels like ditching a weighted training vest.

MS1's dreaded bridge ambush - tanks (out of frame) are closing in, can't afford to crawl up to this guy for the kill, must rush in:

ACTUAL SPEED
Spoiler: show
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MINIMAL SPEED
Spoiler: show
Image


^^^ NBD on MVS/ACA - close the gap, blast the fucker, duck the reprisal - but I regularly get my head blown off trying the same in MSXX, against the very same enemy type, with nowhere near as much backing him up.

Game has tons of excellent content, too. For now I've put it off until I can play it on PSP, or I guess DS via its Metal Slug 7 incarnation, if that too is boned.

I'd laugh if it turns out the PSP's TV hookup handles better than PS4 and Steam. >_>
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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 8:17 am 


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That's some interesting dodgery, it looks like the hitbox is not exactly same as I've experienced in my original MVS cartridge, or then there is some funny stuff going on.

For the record, I find myself usually unable to play arcade games for score on any modern home console/PC equipment for most of the time, if it's not the display, then it's the controller, and if it's not the display and the controller, then it's the distance from the display. At very least my cabinet makes a very weighty 100kg statement for better control feel - I can make 1ms panic maneuvers, applying a heavy sudden movement with my hand which the cabinet accepts with all it's bulk. Any joystick pads would fly off the table with similar force, and thumbs just can't reach the same level of zigzagging as joysticks. Even my X-arcade tank stick can't quite stay still when going gets intense, but my arcade cab is designed to handle the public monkey army and can take it all in.


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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 8:33 am 


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Nazca virtuosity at work :cool: Marco's hitbox responds instantly, despite his "Yipes!" sprites, creating what looks like a hellacious (and eminently cartoony) near-miss. As soon as I noticed this on my MS3 cart, I knew these guys were special Image Same principle as Marco's hitbox moving [left/right] instantly, despite his lengthy turn-around animation. (it's the kiss of death when a fast-action game has the character remain stationary during turn animation, ala Prince of Persia. I can never really love poor Alisia-chan, her game is full of fast Contra bullets, we don't got time to turn in place FFS :shock:)

Being efficient, Nazca re-purpose the duck frames for MS3's shocking M. Night Shyamalamadingdong-worthy twist! Also, feather [down] during Allen's intro taunt so it looks like he and Marco are having a right good larf RE the old days, before Morden's insurrection turned them into mortal foes! Image

Something to be said for monitor positioning, definitely. I've gone as far as shamelessly propping a display on a stack of bibles to approximate seated cabinent viewing conditions. :oops: (not even joking, old man was an RE teacher, got tons of 'em, take care of your eyesight for the Lord :cool:)
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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 8:39 am 


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Stack of bibles! Praise the lord, none can stop you now :mrgreen:

I need to 1-up this somehow, maybe I'll stack all my books full of 80's developer interviews (bitmap brothers, sensible software, c64 designers) underneath my tank stick and see if they give any additional quantum vibrations to create additional atmosphere.

Speaking of atmosphere, I admit being guilty of playing a cd's full of recorded 80's arcade hall background noise sometimes when playing. Playing arcade games is more than mechanical execution, it's living in a state of mind, or "zone" as Jeff Minter says. I am only speaking for myself, obviously.

Thanks for the observations about Metal Slug hitboxes. Having the hitbox turn ahead of the turn animation was a very smart move. I also found out recently that the director of R-Type final, Kuzo, worked on Metal Slug as well.


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