PC on left, Genesis via GBS on right.
Thoughts?
Full Size:
I can't speak for which it SHOULD look like, but the contrast is way too high for me on the Genesis. Compound that with your remarks on the blacks, we have a winner. Not sure if something within the settings needs to be tuned better though? I hope so.Josh128 wrote:Regarding the color handling of the GBS Control, I did a quick and dirty comparison of a PC Radeon VGA card out vs a Genesis model 2 via GBS Control out to a Compaq FS7600 CRT. I need to probably do more tests with locked down manual camera settings, but this is actually pretty representative of what I see. The black levels appear to be very different, with the PC giving much darker blacks yet still maintaining good color levels. The GBS Control image does still look good, but Im not sure which is more representative of what the image SHOULD look like.
PC on left, Genesis via GBS on right.
Thoughts?
Full Size:Spoiler
Yeah, it's a Genesis 1 going into a BVM.Josh128 wrote:So this is directly from the Gen into some sort of 15kHz monitor?
I understand how it looked 30 years ago, but that didn't look good to me. Black was supposed to be black, not gray. The colors were supposed to be vibrant but not overpowering. So the VGA card looks best to me. Don't even get me started on scanlines...Josh128 wrote:^^
So you feel the contrast looks too high on the right image? Cause to me it seems like the contrast looks higher on the left. The PC is ALMOST crushing blacks. If you look at the horizontal stripe under the "Pine Pot" sign, it looks almost totally black on the PC image, while you can see the detail/shading on the Genesis/GBS. Same goes for the back glass of the car at the bottom of the screen, the PC comes close to crushing the gray shading as you can see in the large spoiler image.
So you prefer the look of the image on the left? I guess the next thing to do would be to see how the colors on the Genesis look via composite on an NTSC TV, but we all know from FBX's NES RGB palette mania that trying to nail down true colors from composite video is not an exact science.
For reference, the GBS-C brightness control was set to auto-gain, scanlines set to 0 (full darkness). The monitor settings did not change between the two and are all default except for contrast, which is maxed out.
Yeah that picture on the right looks more like my unmodded genesis 2 going straight into an (uncalibrated) RGB TVJosh128 wrote:^^
Yeah, I compared them side by side and that looks very much like the Genesis 2 through the GBS-C. Essentially identical I would say. So this is directly from the Gen into some sort of 15kHz monitor? From this comparison it appears that the color output from my GBS-C is pretty damned accurate.
The colorspace on my PC's VGA output may need to be adjusted or something, should be RGB 4:4:4 (I would imagine), but maybe its not, I need to check.
Status bar is absolutely grey. On the emu version it's like, the darkest of dark greys, it nearly blends with the black scanlines.ldeveraux wrote:
I understand how it looked 30 years ago, but that didn't look good to me. Black was supposed to be black, not gray. The colors were supposed to be vibrant but not overpowering. So the VGA card looks best to me. Don't even get me started on scanlines...
I’ve never been able to output an interlaced signal of any kind from the GBSC under any circumstances, including passthrough mode. Earlier in this thread there are statements that it’s a hardware limitation of some kind.Guile wrote:Is it possible to get 480i output on the vga from component 480i in?
No I didn't enable ypbpr, thanks for the tip, I will test it again. If it just passes ypbpr to ypbpr then it's not too helpful to me but I wonder if it could do vga to ypbpr.Josh128 wrote:You hit the pass-through button but did you enable YPbPr output? Even so, that function is supposed to be preliminary/beta. I havent personally tested yet.
That's unfortunate, do you know of a good inexpensive transcoder that can output 480i? It seems like there are so few options.awe444 wrote:I’ve never been able to output an interlaced signal of any kind from the GBSC under any circumstances, including passthrough mode. Earlier in this thread there are statements that it’s a hardware limitation of some kind.Guile wrote:Is it possible to get 480i output on the vga from component 480i in?
Oh well that's definitely not worth it for me then. I don't want to modify it any more and if it can't output 480i then there's no point in my case. Thanks for the tip, I probably would've wasted some time on that.Ryoandr wrote:Do not forget that to use the component output option you need to mod the GBS, see 1st page. Else signal level is not high enough and even if it manages to sync it'll be too dark.
As far as I know, correct interlaced output is not possible. I got a very flickery output using passthrough on 480i, as if lines got spaced apart.
https://github.com/ramapcsx2/gbs-contro ... placementsUpdate:
This modification is not required anymore.
Gbscontrol now uses an undocumented clamping level bit to work well with the default capacitors.
It isn't necessary to do this modification anymore, but you can still do it and improve sync performance.
Not exactly. The 100R input sync mod actually RAISES the voltage seen at the TV5725 input. Not performing it is 100% safe, and performing it makes using TTL sync inputs a no-goNoAffinity wrote:Both mods are all about correct voltages. Without them, theres potential risk to hardware over time (gbs and beyond).
That excerpt refers to ypbpr input and no longer needing input caps.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Raises it to a suitable level to compensate for typical console output voltages, correct?maxtherabbit wrote:Not exactly. The 100R input sync mod actually RAISES the voltage seen at the TV5725 input. Not performing it is 100% safe, and performing it makes using TTL sync inputs a no-goNoAffinity wrote:Both mods are all about correct voltages. Without them, theres potential risk to hardware over time (gbs and beyond).
That excerpt refers to ypbpr input and no longer needing input caps.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Depends how you define typical output. Short answer is yes, but that's only because most factory RGB SCART cables include attenuation on sync. If you make custom cables you'd find that most consoles actually do output TTL level c-sync at the multioutNoAffinity wrote:Raises it to a suitable level to compensate for typical console output voltages, correct?maxtherabbit wrote:Not exactly. The 100R input sync mod actually RAISES the voltage seen at the TV5725 input. Not performing it is 100% safe, and performing it makes using TTL sync inputs a no-goNoAffinity wrote:Both mods are all about correct voltages. Without them, theres potential risk to hardware over time (gbs and beyond).
That excerpt refers to ypbpr input and no longer needing input caps.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Sync amplitude has nothing to do with colour amplitude. I do not know if the CFW specifically affects usability with arcade boards, but removing the 3 trimmer pots on the GBS' input definitely hamstrings its ability to handle arcade PCB RGB. If you want to use GBS-control with arcade hardware it's best to not remove the 3 pots and use them to attenuate the brightness.NoAffinity wrote: Additional question - does the cfw in general affect the ability to input TTL signals (even without the 100R resistor)? I find that even without the 100R resistor, any arcade board is overly bright on GBS-C, and gain has to be cranked down to 0, and even then it's still a bit too bright.
AGC Retrogaming wrote:Joined: 18 Apr 2021
Posts: 1
Location: North Carolina
Feedback: 0|0|0
Hi everyone, I'm new in this forum, so I'm sorry if this subject has been discussed before. but I could not find any information related.
does this firmware has any feature as:
- Rotate 90º for vertical games for example.
- Flip the imagine so show on screen the image inverted horizontal.
I'm not sure if it is possible, or requires to much effort to develop this code. but just let me know your thoughts about it.
Thanks in advance, and awesome improvement thought
Rotation can't be done on these Gonbes boards. The hardware can't do it.NoAffinity wrote:^the answer to both is no. And it is unlikely they will be added to development, as rama is focused on other efforts.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
I'm not completely clear on what your chain is but why are you using anything other than gbsc to get 1080p?Guile wrote: I'm using 480p from the gbsc to line2x ossc to a scaler to get 1080p. It seems that the ossc greatly magnifies the noise when it line doubles the original. I also tried another power supply but it made no difference.
I'm going to make a case for it but it's just the bare board now. I do have it near some scalers and the ossc but no other monitors, it's going to a tv. I will test it on another environment and see if it changes the noise. I should have some ferrite wire clips somewhere I can try too.Josh128 wrote:Is your monitor by chance in close proximity to another monitor? My GBS-C output is absolutely rock solid with no waves, lines or interference on my VGA monitor-- unless I drive headphones with audio riding in the SCART cable feeding the input to the GBS-C OR I power on the 20" TV next to my monitor. Both induce very light waves/noise in the VGA monitor.
If I drive a high impedance audio input, such as an amplifier instead of the low impedance headphones, the audio does not disturb the picture (less current flowing in the audio wires of the SCART cable).
I tried the 1080p output from the gbsc but it looked a lot better to me going through the ossc line2x from 480p. I use a scaler to get the 960p to 1080p as the tv won't display 960p.NoAffinity wrote:
I'm not completely clear on what your chain is but why are you using anything other than gbsc to get 1080p?
Separate note: have you tried copper tape on the bottom, to stifle noise from the ram traces?
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk