PixelFX Morph

The place for all discussion on gaming hardware
Woozle
Posts: 232
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:27 pm
Location: Florida

Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by Woozle »

bobrocks95 wrote:
Woozle wrote:That should be possible, I think it's just a horizontal pixel averaging.
Do some implementations have some logic to determine where it needs to be applied vs averaging on the whole screen?
Not that I know of. Picking out individual pixels to blur would require some sort of pattern matching and would probably have lot of false positives/miss pixels.
User avatar
Kez
Posts: 818
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:09 am

Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by Kez »

The MiSTer Genesis core definitely does that but it's not perfect. It matches grid patterns pretty well though, eg the light cones in the bar in Streets of Rage 2. Still not sure if that is just from looking at the video output or happening a bit earlier in the process.
BONKERS
Posts: 417
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:41 am

Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by BONKERS »

Guspaz wrote:AFAIK, in the PC space, SMAA replaced FXAA as the post-processed anti-aliasing filter of choice. It's more computationally intensive, though.
Not really. They both have pros and cons. SMAA 1x is more expensive and it really is only good at shaving off the edges of geometry aliasing.
Most games from the PS3 era onward all already have FXAA, SMAA or some other Post Process AA enabled. Adding FXAA/SMAA on top would be pointless and just cause artifacts.
And it's usefulness at lower resolutions is extremely limited. Xbox/GC games could potentially benefit if they already don't have Anti Aliasing , which many do. And with PS2 games unless it offers a 480p mode it will be essentially useless, even deinterlaced.
User avatar
Extrems
Posts: 540
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:01 pm
Contact:

Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by Extrems »

BONKERS wrote:GC games could potentially benefit if they already don't have Anti Aliasing , which many do.
Citation needed. Only 3 games are known to use anti-aliasing, and only to a limited extent for 2 of them.
strayan
Posts: 671
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:33 pm

Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by strayan »

Yeah, it’s news to me that GameCube games have anti-aliasing.
ZellSF
Posts: 2642
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:12 pm

Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by ZellSF »

I wouldn't say most PS3 games have antialiasing either. There's a lot of "No AA" in this list: https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/list ... ons.41152/
strayan
Posts: 671
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:33 pm

Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by strayan »

GBA.

The native resolution of the GBA is 240 × 160 pixels (3:2 aspect ratio).

Using SWISS and a GCvideo based device allows you to output 720x480 (linex3) using nearest neighbour interpolation (bear in mind this is not anamorphic content).

Will your scaler be able to take us to 2160x1440 in a 2560 × 1440 frame?
User avatar
bobrocks95
Posts: 3460
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:27 am
Location: Kentucky

Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by bobrocks95 »

Don't know exactly what needs to be done but GBI has a lot of output options and I'd definitely like to see good support like the OSSC has!
PS1 Disc-Based Game ID BIOS patch for MemCard Pro and SD2PSX automatic VMC switching.
User avatar
Josh128
Posts: 2123
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:01 am

Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by Josh128 »

strayan wrote:Yeah, it’s news to me that GameCube games have anti-aliasing.
Rogue Leader and/or Rebel Strike definitely employ some sort of AA in at least some scenes. Specifically the hangars where you pick your craft, you can see the AA on the edges of the craft as they hover.

Regardless though. You guys are talking too modern. Super Mario 64 and 90% of all other N64 games use anti-aliasing, and its glorious. :mrgreen:
Last edited by Josh128 on Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Konsolkongen
Posts: 2309
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 8:28 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by Konsolkongen »

Will the morph have a full size HDMI output? I ask because a lot of your old digital mods uses mini HDMI and in my experience these ports can be very unreliable.
Woozle
Posts: 232
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:27 pm
Location: Florida

Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by Woozle »

strayan wrote:Will your scaler be able to take us to 2160x1440 in a 2560 × 1440 frame?
Definitely.
Konsolkongen wrote:Will the morph have a full size HDMI output? I ask because a lot of your old digital mods uses mini HDMI and in my experience these ports can be very unreliable.
Full size HDMI input and output.
User avatar
Konsolkongen
Posts: 2309
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 8:28 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by Konsolkongen »

Woozle wrote:
Konsolkongen wrote:Will the morph have a full size HDMI output? I ask because a lot of your old digital mods uses mini HDMI and in my experience these ports can be very unreliable.
Full size HDMI input and output.
Excellent. Thanks :)
User avatar
Extrems
Posts: 540
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:01 pm
Contact:

Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by Extrems »

Josh128 wrote:Rogue Leader and/or Rebel Strike definitely employ some sort of AA in at least some scenes. Specifically the hangars where you pick you craft, you can see the AA on the edges of the craft as they hover.
3x MSAA in mission select, hangar, cutscenes, and pause screen.
strayan wrote:GBA.

The native resolution of the GBA is 240 × 160 pixels (3:2 aspect ratio).

Using SWISS and a GCvideo based device allows you to output 720x480 (linex3) using nearest neighbour interpolation (bear in mind this is not anamorphic content).

Will your scaler be able to take us to 2160x1440 in a 2560 × 1440 frame?
You should know this is a suboptimal configuration.
strayan
Posts: 671
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:33 pm

Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by strayan »

Extrems wrote:You should know this is a suboptimal configuration.
What are your thoughts on the optimal configuration for GBA?
User avatar
Ms. Tea
Posts: 347
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:03 am

Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by Ms. Tea »

ZellSF wrote:That seems more ambitious than I was expecting. This focus confuses me:
Film Mode (VCR/LD/DVD)

Full frame Time-Base Correction.
3D Comb Filter.
Cadence detection.
Not that I'm complaining.
I feel pandered to. Genuinely excited about this. I've got my LD players hooked straight up to the TV for now, and it's fine, but I know TVs are probably going to drop composite one of these days.
Woozle
Posts: 232
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:27 pm
Location: Florida

Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by Woozle »

bobrocks95 wrote:Don't know exactly what needs to be done but GBI has a lot of output options and I'd definitely like to see good support like the OSSC has!
I don't think it needs much special treatment besides setting the Morph to crop out the active GBA image and then scaling it to the desired size. Even if you're running a GBI/GCVideo config where the GBA image has already been integer scaled, the Morph has a pre-scaler to obtain the original image. The pre-scaler is also nice for using Analogue consoles like the Super NT and the Morph's RGB/analog output, bypassing the need for the Analogue DAC.
orange808 wrote:I realize I am way down the rabbit hole, here. I think some people will be using multiple units simultaneously. (Okay, maybe just me. So, it might not be worth it.) Will it be possible to select a remote control design that allows for multiple units and multiple remotes to coexist? That would also help for users that use multiple units to drive a video wall. At the very least, I would like an button or microswitch to disable remote control input.

I would also really like to feed composite and svideo over the HD15.
We support programming your own universal remote, using your TVs CEC function, or a web interface. That's more on the software/ESP32 side which Christof handles, but I'll pass along the request to him.
User avatar
Guspaz
Posts: 3136
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:37 pm
Location: Montréal, Canada

Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by Guspaz »

I see that the max output resolution is listed as 1440p60. Will the Morph be capable of scaling 720p60 to 1440p60? I've got a Mac Mini G4 running os 9 that I'm using for retro gaming, but the highest it'll do is 1080p60 (which is blurry on my 1440p monitor and kind of too high resolution for such an old system anyhow), and you'd think 720p60 would look great since it's a 2x2 scale to 1440p, but no, 720p60 look even blurrier. The OSSC can passthrough most of the resolutions it outputs, but will only do doubling on 640x480, which looks nice (much sharper than the monitor's scaling), and that's fine for some games that target 480p, but is too low for others. So 720p pixel doubled on a 1440p monitor seems like a pretty good compromise for many games to me.

In the mean time, I'm running 1024x768, which for some reason is a lot less blurry than 720p, but it's still not ideal.
Woozle
Posts: 232
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:27 pm
Location: Florida

Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by Woozle »

720p can be scaled to 1440p.
N64
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2020 4:37 pm

Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by N64 »

Woozle wrote:720p can be scaled to 1440p.
That's exciting, does that include 16:9 content too? I.e. 1280x720 to 2560x1440?
zarkFR
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:09 am
Location: France

Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by zarkFR »

N64 wrote:
Woozle wrote:720p can be scaled to 1440p.
That's exciting, does that include 16:9 content too? I.e. 1280x720 to 2560x1440?
This, and if the smoothing filter can work at 1440p (480pX3 and 720pX2), would be sooooooooo cool !
User avatar
Josh128
Posts: 2123
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:01 am

Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by Josh128 »

Have to ask the big (in my world) question. Will scan doubling 240p60 input to 240p120 output over RGBHV be possible? If so, would a motion interpolation of the output (to prevent the double strobe illusion) also be possible, like with the OSSC Pro?

Also, tentative release date and pricing?
User avatar
Fudoh
Posts: 13015
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by Fudoh »

If so, would a motion interpolation of the output (to prevent the double strobe illusion) also be possible, like with the OSSC Pro?
BFI when going from 60 to 120Hz does accomplish the same thing, doesn't it ?
User avatar
Josh128
Posts: 2123
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:01 am

Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by Josh128 »

Fudoh wrote:
If so, would a motion interpolation of the output (to prevent the double strobe illusion) also be possible, like with the OSSC Pro?
BFI when going from 60 to 120Hz does accomplish the same thing, doesn't it ?
No, because you lose the brightness which makes 240p120 look so good in the first place. BFI @240p120 essentially equals 480p60 w/scanlines. I really do find there's a big difference in the way it looks.
User avatar
bobrocks95
Posts: 3460
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:27 am
Location: Kentucky

Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by bobrocks95 »

I think this remains a design quirk on the original OSSC, but any downside to using the VGA port? Original OSSC doesn't allow for proper LPF support so I have to use a VGA to SCART cable.
PS1 Disc-Based Game ID BIOS patch for MemCard Pro and SD2PSX automatic VMC switching.
fernan1234
Posts: 2175
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:34 pm

Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by fernan1234 »

bobrocks95 wrote:I think this remains a design quirk on the original OSSC, but any downside to using the VGA port? Original OSSC doesn't allow for proper LPF support so I have to use a VGA to SCART cable.
It is just an OSSC Classic quirk. The Pro is confirmed to not have it, and I bet this won't either.
DatMonkey
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:13 am

Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by DatMonkey »

Feature request/wish: Would it be possible to include 1440p-->1440i conversion? 1440i is not a standard but it just so happens to work with BVM D-serries and the BKM-68X on A-series monitors, making it the highest possible picture quality one can get from those sets.

No confirmation if the OSSC Pro will have this yet, so here's hoping one (at least) of these two devices would introduce this!
anexanhume
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:12 am

Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by anexanhume »

I am thinking of getting a Morph and running an HDMI splitter on the output to go to a 1920x1440 capable monitor, a D24, a 34XBR960, a 27FV300 (likely use the component out here), and a LG C9. I know good HDMI->VGA and HDMI->Component converters exist, but are there any good HDMI->RGB converters? Or perhaps I should reserve the analog out for the D24? But I am concerned about the HDMI->Component downscaling to 240p properly for the 27FV300.
User avatar
bobrocks95
Posts: 3460
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:27 am
Location: Kentucky

Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by bobrocks95 »

anexanhume wrote:I am thinking of getting a Morph and running an HDMI splitter on the output to go to a 1920x1440 capable monitor, a D24, a 34XBR960, a 27FV300 (likely use the component out here), and a LG C9. I know good HDMI->VGA and HDMI->Component converters exist, but are there any good HDMI->RGB converters? Or perhaps I should reserve the analog out for the D24? But I am concerned about the HDMI->Component downscaling to 240p properly for the 27FV300.
Which part of that chain is going to be doing the downscaling? The D24, XBR960, and FV300 all need 240p, and the monitor and LG need the final output of the morph... You'd have to split the input 3 ways and the output 2 ways to accomplish that...

Unless the Morph will somehow allow passthrough AND upscaling at the same time I don't see how you're going to be using its component output at all.
PS1 Disc-Based Game ID BIOS patch for MemCard Pro and SD2PSX automatic VMC switching.
anexanhume
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:12 am

Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by anexanhume »

bobrocks95 wrote:
anexanhume wrote:I am thinking of getting a Morph and running an HDMI splitter on the output to go to a 1920x1440 capable monitor, a D24, a 34XBR960, a 27FV300 (likely use the component out here), and a LG C9. I know good HDMI->VGA and HDMI->Component converters exist, but are there any good HDMI->RGB converters? Or perhaps I should reserve the analog out for the D24? But I am concerned about the HDMI->Component downscaling to 240p properly for the 27FV300.
Which part of that chain is going to be doing the downscaling? The D24, XBR960, and FV300 all need 240p, and the monitor and LG need the final output of the morph... You'd have to split the input 3 ways and the output 2 ways to accomplish that...

Unless the Morph will somehow allow passthrough AND upscaling at the same time I don't see how you're going to be using its component output at all.
I am assuming the Morph will support 1080i output for the 34XBR960 (to ensure 0 lag), and the D24 will need to accept up to 1080i. None of the displays will need to be driven simultaneously, so the output resolution will change depending on the display in use.
Woozle
Posts: 232
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:27 pm
Location: Florida

Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by Woozle »

bobrocks95 wrote:Unless the Morph will somehow allow passthrough AND upscaling at the same time I don't see how you're going to be using its component output at all.
The Morph has two outputs, HDMI and analog through a VGA connector. You can have the scaler output over HDMI and forward the unscaled video through the VGA connector. We can likely fit an optional line doubler for the analog output, then you can have the scaler output over hdmi and a line doubled picture over VGA.
Post Reply