OSSC Pro

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fernan1234
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by fernan1234 »

XSync-1 wrote:Is there a way to block this pseudo-intellectual geek, so I don't have to read anymore of his comments?
Maybe it's better to not keep calling other people pseudo intellectuals after you're the guy who seems to think that imperial Japan (and even WWII) was in the 1970s...

But anyway, if you want you can easily block any user that annoys you via this page: ucp.php?mode=logout
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Ms. Tea
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by Ms. Tea »

XSync-1 wrote:Covidinese government
Isn't it funny how people who insist they have totally normal concerns descend into conspiracy theories the second they get the chance to expand on them?

Come on, man. At least recognize that that's not going to help your case that you're taking a principled stand for human rights.
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Josh128
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by Josh128 »

Blacksheep wrote:

BS. You are responsible for smaller things as well. This is not a "campaign", you have to start with the small things, it all adds up. If many small projects boycot production in China, it definitely can send a message as well.

Your thinking is nothing more than a way to weasel out of responsibility. Compare climate change. A government might use your thinking as an excuse to not reduce greenhouse gas emission as much as would (otherwise) be possible, it makes cute doggy eyes and goes: oh but the other countries emit sooo much more greenhouse gas than us, our contribution would change so little, so our effort would not be worth it. It's always the others that have to make a move, not yourself, isn't it. Like a stubborn small kid. Just like thinking unnecessarily keeping the lights on doesn't matter. It's egoistic. (the other half of the stunt, btw, which is used for "bad" things, goes like: oh but if we don't do it, somebody else will do it anyway!) And that thought is viral, gets widely replicated. When your job might actually be to shatter that wall, setting a good example, creating the possibility that it may replicate.

Your argument is a comfortable argument, and an ignorant argument.
So you think this is the right place for this type of discussion?

Im ignorant yet you claim this is not a campaign? This is the fucking definition of a campaign, homie. Trying to claim its not a campaign is ignorant.

Whats also ignorant is you comparing this project to a governments agreement to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. 1.) Governments dont typically sell products to end consumers and 2.) Such agreements by governments usually involve subsidies for the businesses they affect. Are you going to subsidize this for Marqs so he doesnt have to raise the price of the unit and potentially cripple his sales? This is a niche, hobbyist project. A project that would very likely end up costing 50% or more should it be produced somewhere else. For an already ~$300+ unit, that would make it a non-starter for most people. Doing that to "take a stand" and all but killing your already limited sales would be extremely ignorant.

If it could be accomplished for only ~10-20% more cost, I think most people, including myself, would be OK with it. Do you honestly think thats going to be the case?
Last edited by Josh128 on Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Einzelherz
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by Einzelherz »

Oops, I forgot. Don't click on the OSSC Pro thread.
Blacksheep
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by Blacksheep »

Josh128 wrote:So you think this is the right place for this type of discussion?
Yes.
Josh128 wrote:Im ignorant yet you claim this is not a campaign? This is the fucking definition of a campaign, homie. Trying to claim its not a campaign is ignorant.
OK, my bad, it's a campaign. So?
Josh128 wrote:Whats also ignorant is you comparing this project to a governments agreement ...
I wasn't speaking of any government agreement. I was speaking of government's behavior/justification more generally. You seem to have misunderstood: the reason I introduced the government / greenhouse gas parallel was to illustrate the kind of harmful thought, and it works really well for that purpose. As obvious as it is that governments don't typically sell products to end consumers, as obvious is it that this does in no way affect the validity of my riposte, as it simply has nothing to do with it.
Josh128 wrote:If it could be accomplished for only ~10-20% more cost, I think most people, including myself, would be OK with it. Do you honestly think thats going to be the case?
How should I know if that is going to be the case—marqs and Bucko manage the contractual details. They should know better, considering marqs said that there are plans to produce in Europe also. Personally I would be OK with paying ~10-20% more for an OSSC Pro not made in China, perhaps a little more still. If there will be deals with multiple manufacturers based in different countries, maybe the shop could let customers choose and hinge the price on that choice. But it doesn't all depend on videogameperfection.com: as Tazz mentioned, once the hardware files are released, you could order from a manufacturer of your choosing (or possibly from another seller which might do things differently). Note that depending on the scale of the order, prices might not be the public ones. I think your estimation of the number of units produced: "if the Pro does really well it might sell several hundred units in its first year or so of production" might be set a bit too low.
Josh128 wrote:Doing that to "take a stand" and all but killing your already limited sales would be extremely ignorant.
I think just breaking even as a hobby project, and for a good cause on top of that, would demonstrate some grit. If you can't even break even due to not producing in China, I can appreciate if you don't want to go that route. But as I said, I don't know the details.
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Hoagtech
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by Hoagtech »

^^Garbage...




I would like to know the best low latency big screen I could buy in 1440p?

I have seen a few recommendations for 32” models but I am a glutton for a big screen.

What are some prospects of 1440 Panels bigger than 32?
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Guspaz
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by Guspaz »

Go ultrawide or get a 4K TV. I don't think there is much in the way of 16:9 computer monitors bigger than 32" at any resolution. LG Display announced they'll be making a 42" 4K OLED panel this year, though it's not clear if LG Electronics will be making a TV that uses it this year, or if you'll need to buy it from Sony or some other TV manufacturer.
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bobrocks95
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by bobrocks95 »

I have plenty of thoughts on a lot of these posts and none of them belong here- we actually need a moderator at this point to clean this up.
Guspaz wrote:Go ultrawide or get a 4K TV. I don't think there is much in the way of 16:9 computer monitors bigger than 32" at any resolution. LG Display announced they'll be making a 42" 4K OLED panel this year, though it's not clear if LG Electronics will be making a TV that uses it this year, or if you'll need to buy it from Sony or some other TV manufacturer.
I thought there was a 42" CX last year? Maybe not, maybe just in one region. That's definitely going to be your best bet hoagtech, though that's an awful lot of screen for a desk setup. 27" is the largest I would personally go, but that's just me and of course depends on your sitting distance.
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fernan1234
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by fernan1234 »

bobrocks95 wrote:I thought there was a 42" CX last year? Maybe not, maybe just in one region. That's definitely going to be your best bet hoagtech, though that's an awful lot of screen for a desk setup. 27" is the largest I would personally go, but that's just me and of course depends on your sitting distance.
No, it was a 48''. That will continue to be the smallest size available for WOLED panels. There are apparently plans to start production on a 42'' model at some point, but it's probably over a year away from now if not longer for TVs with them to be available for purchase.

On the other hand, RGB OLED displays (manufactured by JOLED and not LG) have been announced by LG in both 32'' and even 27'' sizes, but those will be for professional use in photo and video editing, and will most likely lack the features that most gamers look for in displays.
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darcagn
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by darcagn »

maxtherabbit wrote:Ima keep it real with you chief. I always prioritize self interest above trying to change the world. Most rational men do
I always buy open-source projects from the original creator's approved/affiliated vendors out of a matter of principle, even when I can get a cheaper knockoff-ish version that works just as well. Especially if the vendor contributes back to the project. There's a sizable amount of people in the community who also do this. However, if there is a version created/assembled more ethically (e.g. not using Chinese slave labor, not contributing to environmental or animal abuse, etc.), I'm willing to consider buying that version instead, even at a greater cost.

I know this is just me and that doesn't mean it's representative of the market. If anyone out there reading this is interested in selling the OSSC Pro (or other open source products in this hobbyist realm) assembled more ethically, sign me up as 1 potential buyer, though.

The politics of this issue is a bit off-topic, but discussing potential assemblers/vendors for this project and where they source their parts is quite on-topic -- just my opinion as a buyer (and given I buy from vendors who contribute money back, also somewhat financial contributor).
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Hoagtech
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by Hoagtech »

Guspaz wrote:Go ultrawide or get a 4K TV. I don't think there is much in the way of 16:9 computer monitors bigger than 32" at any resolution. LG Display announced they'll be making a 42" 4K OLED panel this year, though it's not clear if LG Electronics will be making a TV that uses it this year, or if you'll need to buy it from Sony or some other TV manufacturer.
I was looking for a TV not a computer monitor.

You seem to know something I don’t but I was looking for 1440 because it will support integer scaling at 6x and reduce my vertical black and not have to rely on my internal scaler to bump up to 4K..

What’s the biggest 1440p tv out there?
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fernan1234
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by fernan1234 »

Hoagtech wrote:What’s the biggest 1440p tv out there?
Is there even such a thing as a 1440p TV?
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Hoagtech
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by Hoagtech »

fernan1234 wrote:
Hoagtech wrote:What’s the biggest 1440p tv out there?
Is there even such a thing as a 1440p TV?
Not that I know of.

The biggest I’ve seen is that LG 32” Freesync IPS.

I was hoping for a bigger screen for my man cave 65+ with a 1440 native for the PRO.

That 32” is surprisingly affordable for its features

https://www.newegg.com/p/9SIA8X5BWW4701 ... &gclsrc=ds
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ZellSF
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by ZellSF »

Unless the OSSC Pro ever gets any complex CRT shaders, I sort of doubt you would be able to tell the difference between a worst case 1440p>2160p scale and a 1440p native scale.
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Hoagtech
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by Hoagtech »

ZellSF wrote:Unless the OSSC Pro ever gets any complex CRT shaders, I sort of doubt you would be able to tell the difference between a worst case 1440p>2160p scale and a 1440p native scale.
One problem I can see is that 1440p does not evenly scale to 2160. At 2x you would be at 2880p. Maybe my logic is too simple but if your 4K panel does a proper job internal scaling, I would think you would better off feeding it a 3x 720 signal and hoping it applies a proper 3x scale to 2160.

I don’t mind being wrong but I would love to hear why and how a 2160 image could properly scale a 6x signal.
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Guspaz
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by Guspaz »

There are no 1440p TVs, nor will you find one at 65". I don't want to say that 16:9 1440p displays larger than 32" don't exist, but I have never seen one. If you want to go bigger, you need to look at a 4K TV.

Why are you worried about scaling 1440p to 2160p? If it's a PC or a modern console, it can set its output resolution to 2160p. If it's a retro console, it doesn't really matter, the display is high enough resolution that integer scaling is largely meaningless.
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by ZellSF »

Hoagtech wrote:
ZellSF wrote:Unless the OSSC Pro ever gets any complex CRT shaders, I sort of doubt you would be able to tell the difference between a worst case 1440p>2160p scale and a 1440p native scale.
One problem I can see is that 1440p does not evenly scale to 2160. At 2x you would be at 2880p. Maybe my logic is too simple but if your 4K panel does a proper job internal scaling, I would think you would better off feeding it a 3x 720 signal and hoping it applies a proper 3x scale to 2160.

I don’t mind being wrong but I would love to hear why and how a 2160 image could properly scale a 6x signal.
Here's an integer scaled image:
Image
Here's a non-integer scaled one:
Image
Do you really think there's a difference there worth caring about?
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Hoagtech
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by Hoagtech »

ZellSF wrote:
Hoagtech wrote:
ZellSF wrote:Unless the OSSC Pro ever gets any complex CRT shaders, I sort of doubt you would be able to tell the difference between a worst case 1440p>2160p scale and a 1440p native scale.
One problem I can see is that 1440p does not evenly scale to 2160. At 2x you would be at 2880p. Maybe my logic is too simple but if your 4K panel does a proper job internal scaling, I would think you would better off feeding it a 3x 720 signal and hoping it applies a proper 3x scale to 2160.

I don’t mind being wrong but I would love to hear why and how a 2160 image could properly scale a 6x signal.
Here's an integer scaled image:
Image
Here's a non-integer scaled one:
Image
Do you really think there's a difference there worth caring about?
I can’t really tell a difference. But how would that effect full screen vertical bars on 240 titles. I don’t like those black bars
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Konsolkongen
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by Konsolkongen »

Your TVs scaler will definitely have an impact on how it looks in the end.
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Guspaz
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by Guspaz »

Hoagtech wrote:I can’t really tell a difference. But how would that effect full screen vertical bars on 240 titles. I don’t like those black bars
Errm, you mean pillarboxing? Those are because you're displaying 4:3 games on a 16:9 display, it has nothing to do with resolution.
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Hoagtech
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by Hoagtech »

Guspaz wrote:
Hoagtech wrote:I can’t really tell a difference. But how would that effect full screen vertical bars on 240 titles. I don’t like those black bars
Errm, you mean pillarboxing? Those are because you're displaying 4:3 games on a 16:9 display, it has nothing to do with resolution.
I was referring to letterboxing. An example for 1080p (switchin lanes) would be a 240 at 4x fitting into a 960 frame creating letterboxing. Granted a 224 image on 6x 1440 will still have small letterboxing.

I’m wondering how uneven internal scaling 1440>2160 will effect letterboxing?

I’m sure it will be set dependent but wanted to know if this will be an issue on 4K sets.
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ZellSF
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by ZellSF »

Konsolkongen wrote:Your TVs scaler will definitely have an impact on how it looks in the end.
There's very little difference TV scaling can do with 1440p>2160 scaling of 240p>1440p integer scaled material.
Hoagtech wrote:I can’t really tell a difference. But how would that effect full screen vertical bars on 240 titles. I don’t like those black bars
Then your plan to get a 1440 display to do integer scaling is flawed to start with. You can't for example integer scale SNES games (256x224) to 1440p.

OSSC will support non-integer scaling, but for a 2160p display this means two interpolated scaling passes. A little more room for things to go wrong if you go that route, but it will probably be fine.

One option is to make the OSSC output integer scaled content, and make your TV scale to get rid of black bars. What options you have here is of course dependent on your TV. Most TVs have a overscan option, but not all of them are very flexible.

Another option is something the OSSC can already do. 240x5 in a 1080p output. That gives you about 10% overscan, which is a bit much, but you'll get integer scaling for the first pass and no black bars. Letting your TV scale 1080p>2160p is quite a bit worse than 1440p>2160p though.
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by orange808 »

Konsolkongen wrote:Your TVs scaler will definitely have an impact on how it looks in the end.
True, but you bypass the display scaler and get pretty good results--without much effort. The HDFury Linker did a nice job when I tried it. I had some pics somewhere on my old Vizio. It's inexpensive and doesn't add measurable latency.

I couldn't find any difference in sharpness between:
240p>OSSC line5x > DVDO vp50pro 1080p > HDFury Linker 4k > LG C9
* versus *
240p>OSSC line5x > LG C9

The DVDO has to be there because the HDFury Linker will not accept the OSSC line5x signal. The DVDO introduces minor ringing and that's unavoidable, but soon we won't need a DVDO. (The Linker gladly accepts odd refresh rates, though.)

In the future, the Retrotink5x or the OSSC Pro will output a proper standard 1080p. So, if you're okay with how line5x looks on your C9 (and I assume most people are happy), there's already an inexpensive solution.

The only better options are very expensive full featured 4k video processors that add a full frame of lag. An Extron DSC HD HD 4k A is reasonably inexpensive brand new, if you're feeling picky. But, inexpensive for a brand new pro video scaler is a relative term--because it costs thousands of pounds/euro/dollars. That's a full frame of lag, too. It's not something most people will want.
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Hoagtech
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by Hoagtech »

ZellSF wrote: Then your plan to get a 1440 display to do integer scaling is flawed to start with. You can't for example integer scale SNES games (256x224) to 1440p.
I stated above that 224 content would be slightly letterboxed. The supported 240 titles would have no letterboxing.

I can see the pixel array in 4k individually to the naked eye on my 4k Sony.

I understand how 8,294,400 pixels would soften the non integer scaling but it would not be in square array alignment and would cause colors and luma to stretch into their neighbors and square pixels to become rectangles not to mention uneven transition during scrolling.

How is using the maximum output from the Pro in your native resolution the same as uneven integer scaling? I have a bad gut feeling about it..

Why are the fears subsided by confidence in interpolation post uneven interger scaling?

Am I missing something obvious here?
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ZellSF
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by ZellSF »

If you have a 4K TV can't you just test rather than ask questions? Find a native resolution 240p screenshot, integer scale it 6x, then try basically any scaling method to get it to 2160p and see if you find the difference notable.

Edit: obviously the comparison should be with a 9x integer scaled shot.

But that's basically what I've already posted: a comparison of integer scaling vs 6x + non integer scaling, and you said you can't tell the difference, so I don't see any basis for your "bad gut feeling".
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XSync-1
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by XSync-1 »

fernan1234 wrote:
XSync-1 wrote:Is there a way to block this pseudo-intellectual geek, so I don't have to read anymore of his comments?
Maybe it's better to not keep calling other people pseudo intellectuals after you're the guy who seems to think that imperial Japan (and even WWII) was in the 1970s...

But anyway, if you want you can easily block any user that annoys you via this page: ucp.php?mode=logout
Lol, When did I say imperial Japan was in the 1970s?

Weren't you the guy who was playing the race card on behalf of the CCP. Get out of here, you're pathetic.
Last edited by XSync-1 on Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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XSync-1
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by XSync-1 »

Ms. Tea wrote:
XSync-1 wrote:Covidinese government
Isn't it funny how people who insist they have totally normal concerns descend into conspiracy theories the second they get the chance to expand on them?

Come on, man. At least recognize that that's not going to help your case that you're taking a principled stand for human rights.
Lol, are you kidding me? It's not a conspiracy theory. Everyone knows covid came from wuhan, china.
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XSync-1
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by XSync-1 »

[/quote]

So you think this is the right place for this type of discussion?

Im ignorant yet you claim this is not a campaign? This is the fucking definition of a campaign, homie. Trying to claim its not a campaign is ignorant.

Whats also ignorant is you comparing this project to a governments agreement to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. 1.) Governments dont typically sell products to end consumers and 2.) Such agreements by governments usually involve subsidies for the businesses they affect. Are you going to subsidize this for Marqs so he doesnt have to raise the price of the unit and potentially cripple his sales? This is a niche, hobbyist project. A project that would very likely end up costing 50% or more should it be produced somewhere else. For an already ~$300+ unit, that would make it a non-starter for most people. Doing that to "take a stand" and all but killing your already limited sales would be extremely ignorant.

If it could be accomplished for only ~10-20% more cost, I think most people, including myself, would be OK with it. Do you honestly think thats going to be the case?[/quote]

Yes it is the right place. It's as good a place as any to talk about this. Once again, a lot of people here are willing to pay more. Plus, chinese slave labor doesn't produce the best quality products anyway.
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Hoagtech
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by Hoagtech »

@x-sync


Who knows you could be right..

As soon as I heard “Government export subsidies” while I was looking forward to specs on the OSSC pro, you ended up boring the fuck out of me.

Take your shit outside to: “off topic discussions” so we can have more opinions about the device itself.

Maybe send Marqs a PM instead of subjecting people interested in this project.

And like others have said. You can go for a huge demographic instead of attacking a retro hobby project before its fruition.

Good luck with your quest elsewhere freedom fighter...
Last edited by Hoagtech on Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:27 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by Hoagtech »

Triple post. Damn phone..
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