OSSC Pro

[fernan1234]

Fine, but I and I'm sure many others on here would rather Marqs have this device made in a country that isn't china. I would pay a more to avoid helping their regime, and plus, their work has never been that good anyway. Since when were they ever known for making quality products?

Without getting into crazy boomer conspiracy theory stuff, just realize that for the rest of your life the global center of manufacturing is not going to change, so unless you want to be really miserable for the rest of your life, the sooner you start getting used to almost everything around you being "made in China" or having a part "made in China" inside of it, the better.

P.S.: Taiwan is China

[Extrems]

P.S.: Taiwan is China

P.S.: Taiwan is an independent country with a functional democracy.

Anyway, this is going off-topic.

[XSync-1]

Fine, but I and I'm sure many others on here would rather Marqs have this device made in a country that isn't china. I would pay a more to avoid helping their regime, and plus, their work has never been that good anyway. Since when were they ever known for making quality products?

Without getting into crazy boomer conspiracy theory stuff, just realize that for the rest of your life the global center of manufacturing is not going to change, so unless you want to be really miserable for the rest of your life, the sooner you start getting used to almost everything around you being "made in China" or having a part "made in China" inside of it, the better.

P.S.: Taiwan is China

I am used to it, but now it's time for some change. If I was making a large number of these devices, I wouldn't use chinese slave labor to produce it. Taiwan is not china.

[XSync-1]

P.S.: Taiwan is China

P.S.: Taiwan is an independent country with a functional democracy.

Anyway, this is going off-topic.

There's nothing wrong with me bringing up this discussion. This forum isn't just about the functionality of the OSSC Pro, some of us care about who's making it and where it's coming from.

[fernan1234]

There's nothing wrong with me bringing up this discussion. This forum isn't just about the functionality of the OSSC Pro, some of us care about who's making it and where it's coming from.

Honestly I have no direct stake on this and that last bit was just to poke fun, but I do think it's worth keeping in mind that some of the anti-China rhetoric you've been posting here is an important part of what feeds into the attitudes and prejudices that are leading to Asian grandmas getting physically assaulted on the streets.

[Blacksheep]

There's nothing wrong with me bringing up this discussion. This forum isn't just about the functionality of the OSSC Pro, some of us care about who's making it and where it's coming from.

Your appeal is justifiable, but your conduct dropped some bricks. Stirring up discontent this way should hardly surprise you. fernan above me has a point, for instance.

that last bit was just to poke fun

It was lame, just like your post before that one.

[fernan1234]

It was lame, just like your post before that one.

Obviously worked on the target audience

edit: too much off-topic stuff, makes me want to say something about the OSSC Pro.

This is something that I've been wondering for a while. I may be asking the wrong question or asking it wrongly, but how do video processors like the OSSC handle conversion from the Rec. 601 colors of the SD sources that we use to Rec. 709 of the FHD that they output and that most flat panels expect?

[NormalFish]

There's nothing wrong with me bringing up this discussion. This forum isn't just about the functionality of the OSSC Pro, some of us care about who's making it and where it's coming from.

Going for the double whammy of worst threads and worst posts on the hardware board I see. Honestly, you're way ahead of the pack, so feel free to stop posting at any time.

[XSync-1]

There's nothing wrong with me bringing up this discussion. This forum isn't just about the functionality of the OSSC Pro, some of us care about who's making it and where it's coming from.

Honestly I have no direct stake on this and that last bit was just to poke fun, but I do think it's worth keeping in mind that some of the anti-China rhetoric you've been posting here is an important part of what feeds into the attitudes and prejudices that are leading to Asian grandmas getting physically assaulted on the streets.

That is such a desperate and pathetic claim, just like the guy who tried to make a false comparison between imperial Japan and modern day communist china. You're bringing up something that has 0 to do with their repressive regime running concentration camps and using literal slave labor to make stuff at a discounted price for us here in the West. Very desperate. Better not criticize the CCP, otherwise it will lead "to Asian grandmas getting physically assaulted on the streets", please. How come that doesn't apply to any other group?

[XSync-1]

There's nothing wrong with me bringing up this discussion. This forum isn't just about the functionality of the OSSC Pro, some of us care about who's making it and where it's coming from.

Going for the double whammy of worst threads and worst posts on the hardware board I see. Honestly, you're way ahead of the pack, so feel free to stop posting at any time.

Good thing I'm not a pseudo-intellectual geek like yourself, otherwise your opinion would matter to me.

[fernan1234]

Last edited by XSync-1 on Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:45 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Yikes.

Are you done in this topic with all this, or are you gonna keep going much longer? Asking for a friend.

[XSync-1]

Last edited by XSync-1 on Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:45 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Yikes.

Are you done in this topic with all this, or are you gonna keep going much longer? Asking for a friend.

I want Marqs to consider using a different country to make his device. Nothing you or anyone else says matters to me whatsoever.

[XSync-1]

Last edited by XSync-1 on Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:45 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Yikes.

Are you done in this topic with all this, or are you gonna keep going much longer? Asking for a friend.

Don't think I'm fazed by you or that pseudo-intellectual who insulted me earlier. There's plenty of people on here who agree with me, but don't want to say anything.

[fernan1234]

marqs literally answered your kind suggestion already. Here it is again in case you missed it:

@Marqs Why do you insist on having the OSSC Pro made in China? Why can't you use any other country to make the OSSC Pro? I would pay extra for a device that isn't made in China, and I'm sure many others on this site would as well. We all know what China's doing. Why do your customers have to contribute to the modern-day slave trade? At least Micomsoft used Taiwan to assemble their devices.

Where do you base your information on? We're actually considering an option of using both an EU and China manufacturer - at least initially - to balance risk and cost. It's not all sunshine with Western manufacturers either. Politics aside, I've seen a fair share of issues with them too, and the price difference (e.g. 3x for prototype PCB) is hard to justify unless the end result is significantly better.

Job done. We did it, Reddit!

[XSync-1]

marqs literally answered your kind suggestion already. Here it is again in case you missed it:

@Marqs Why do you insist on having the OSSC Pro made in China? Why can't you use any other country to make the OSSC Pro? I would pay extra for a device that isn't made in China, and I'm sure many others on this site would as well. We all know what China's doing. Why do your customers have to contribute to the modern-day slave trade? At least Micomsoft used Taiwan to assemble their devices.

Where do you base your information on? We're actually considering an option of using both an EU and China manufacturer - at least initially - to balance risk and cost. It's not all sunshine with Western manufacturers either. Politics aside, I've seen a fair share of issues with them too, and the price difference (e.g. 3x for prototype PCB) is hard to justify unless the end result is significantly better.

Job done. We did it, Reddit!

It's not a clear enough answer. What does Reddit have to do with any of this?

[Kez]

I'm not sure if hobby products like OSSC are a realistic target for this campaign, but it scares me that people are completely dismissing the concerns as invalid. If you don't know about what's happening in China you really owe it to yourself to look into it a bit more, especially what's happening with the Uighur people. I would certainly pay more for an "ethically manufactured" OSSC, but I don't think it would be fair to judge marqs for choosing to make it for a significantly cheaper cost - it is a problem endemic to society and currently almost impossible to avoid. The attitude "rational men take care of their own concerns before trying to save the world" is a huge part of that. People are living in a state of constant unimaginable fear and suffering to support our trivial hobbies and leisure activities.

[Tazz]

I want Marqs to consider using a different country to make his device. Nothing you or anyone else says matters to me whatsoever.

As it is open-source device, you are free to get it produced for you by any-who you want if Marqs choice will not suit you.

[Unseen]

There's nothing wrong with me bringing up this discussion.

A long time ago I read a little detail about the Freemasons and I thought it was weird at that time: They prohibit any discussion of politics or religion while in their meeting place (lodge). I think I can see their reasoning now - it leads to escalating off-topic discussions.

This is something that I've been wondering for a while. I may be asking the wrong question or asking it wrongly, but how do video processors like the OSSC handle conversion from the Rec. 601 colors of the SD sources that we use to Rec. 709 of the FHD that they output and that most flat panels expect?

I don't know how the OSSC handles it, but some commercial video processors properly convert the color space when they convert across the 601/709 "border". It's just a 3x3 matrix multiplication per pixel and can be folded into the matrixm multiplications needed for RGB/YCbCr/RGB conversions or contrast/saturation adjustments.

[nissling]

Color management should be done in the same segment as scaling since non-standardized metadata doesn't always work as intended (for instance a BT.601 tagged HD signal will probably be forced to BT.709 by most displays).

BT.601/709 are only for use with YUV, never RGB. And the OSSC takes care of all the color management as long as you properly select BT.601 or BT.709 for your YUV input. All the video output from the OSSC should be displayed in sRGB for proper viewing. While BT.709 and sRGB share the same primaries, the standards themselves are different in how the signals are treated. I am not sure however if the OSSC properly uses EBU or SMPTE-C gamuts respectively when selecting BT.601, as the standard covers both of them.

[ZellSF]

I'm not sure if hobby products like OSSC are a realistic target for this campaign, but it scares me that people are completely dismissing the concerns as invalid.

I don't think anyone are? They just are dismissing XSync-1's approach to the problem.

[maxtherabbit]

People are living in a state of constant unimaginable fear and suffering to support our trivial hobbies and leisure activities.

They are living in this state due to their own countrymen propping up a totalitarian oppressive government. It has fuck all do to with us or our hobbies.

[Kez]

They are living in this state due to their own countrymen propping up a totalitarian oppressive government. It has fuck all do to with us or our hobbies.

I'm not saying retro gaming enthusiastics in particular, but essentially everyone in the developed world. Phones, TVs, the majority of household items, food, etc. It is cheap and easy for us at somebody else's expense. If you know something is produced unethically and you still pay for it, you are somewhat morally culpable. Buying power is all we have. If someone steals something and you buy it from them knowing it's stolen, that is an unethical act. Similarly if someone uses slave labour to make something and you knowingly still choose to buy it, you are actively condoning slave labour.

We are going wildly off topic here, Unseen made a very good point I think.. apologies. :p

[Josh128]

I'm not saying retro gaming enthusiastics in particular, but essentially everyone in the developed world. Phones, TVs, the majority of household items, food, etc. It is cheap and easy for us at somebody else's expense. If you know something is produced unethically and you still pay for it, you are somewhat morally culpable. Buying power is all we have. If someone steals something and you buy it from them knowing it's stolen, that is an unethical act. Similarly if someone uses slave labour to make something and you knowingly still choose to buy it, you are actively condoning slave labour.

We are going wildly off topic here, Unseen made a very good point I think.. apologies. :p

This is definitely the wrong place for a discussion like this. If the Pro does really well it might sell several hundred units in its first year or so of production. The idea that producing it anywhere outside of China will have any kind of effect at all on the labor environment or the governments oppressive stance on workers Hong Kong, the Uighurs, etc., is extremely naive.

To send any kind of message you would need to target a product with orders of magnitude more sales than the OSSC Pro could ever dream of. Think iPhones. Its one of the reasons I dont buy Apple products. People leaping to their deaths from the top of Foxconn production facilities over slave labor and wages building fucking cell phones that hundreds of millions of sheople eagerly pay $1200 every couple of years for.

Want to make a difference? Target Apple, not Marqs.

[orange808]

1. Click here -->> viewforum.php?f=3
2. Click "New Topic"
3. Profit.

[NormalFish]

1. Click here -->> viewforum.php?f=3
2. Click "New Topic"
3. Profit.

Have you seen that guy's threads? Please don't give him ideas.

[XSync-1]

I'm not sure if hobby products like OSSC are a realistic target for this campaign, but it scares me that people are completely dismissing the concerns as invalid. If you don't know about what's happening in China you really owe it to yourself to look into it a bit more, especially what's happening with the Uighur people. I would certainly pay more for an "ethically manufactured" OSSC, but I don't think it would be fair to judge marqs for choosing to make it for a significantly cheaper cost - it is a problem endemic to society and currently almost impossible to avoid. The attitude "rational men take care of their own concerns before trying to save the world" is a huge part of that. People are living in a state of constant unimaginable fear and suffering to support our trivial hobbies and leisure activities.

What an excellent response. I don't want to seem like I'm judging Marqs, but when I contacted Videogameperfection to buy an original OSSC, they told me that it was made in china and gave me a bad attitude about wanting one made in a different country. I didn't buy one from them at all. I just get the impression that Videogameperfection doesn't see anything wrong with chinese slave labor and I wanted to say something about it here.

[XSync-1]

There's nothing wrong with me bringing up this discussion.

A long time ago I read a little detail about the Freemasons and I thought it was weird at that time: They prohibit any discussion of politics or religion while in their meeting place (lodge). I think I can see their reasoning now - it leads to escalating off-topic discussions.

This is something that I've been wondering for a while. I may be asking the wrong question or asking it wrongly, but how do video processors like the OSSC handle conversion from the Rec. 601 colors of the SD sources that we use to Rec. 709 of the FHD that they output and that most flat panels expect?

I don't know how the OSSC handles it, but some commercial video processors properly convert the color space when they convert across the 601/709 "border". It's just a 3x3 matrix multiplication per pixel and can be folded into the matrixm multiplications needed for RGB/YCbCr/RGB conversions or contrast/saturation adjustments.

This isn't off topic and it's pretty disgusting that you would portray the freemasons in a positive light.

[XSync-1]

I'm not saying retro gaming enthusiastics in particular, but essentially everyone in the developed world. Phones, TVs, the majority of household items, food, etc. It is cheap and easy for us at somebody else's expense. If you know something is produced unethically and you still pay for it, you are somewhat morally culpable. Buying power is all we have. If someone steals something and you buy it from them knowing it's stolen, that is an unethical act. Similarly if someone uses slave labour to make something and you knowingly still choose to buy it, you are actively condoning slave labour.

We are going wildly off topic here, Unseen made a very good point I think.. apologies. :p

This is definitely the wrong place for a discussion like this. If the Pro does really well it might sell several hundred units in its first year or so of production. The idea that producing it anywhere outside of China will have any kind of effect at all on the labor environment or the governments oppressive stance on workers Hong Kong, the Uighurs, etc., is extremely naive.

To send any kind of message you would need to target a product with orders of magnitude more sales than the OSSC Pro could ever dream of. Think iPhones. Its one of the reasons I dont buy Apple products. People leaping to their deaths from the top of Foxconn production facilities over slave labor and wages building fucking cell phones that hundreds of millions of sheople eagerly pay $1200 every couple of years for.

Want to make a difference? Target Apple, not Marqs.

I'm trying to give Marqs my message because I can't give my message to Apple. That's the whole point. He runs a much smaller business than Apple, therefore he would be more inclined to listen, and the OSSC doesn't have to be made in china if he says so. If more companies stop dealing with them, it will change things.

[XSync-1]

1. Click here -->> viewforum.php?f=3
2. Click "New Topic"
3. Profit.

Have you seen that guy's threads? Please don't give him ideas.

Is there a way to block this pseudo-intellectual geek, so I don't have to read anymore of his comments?

[Blacksheep]

This is definitely the wrong place for a discussion like this. If the Pro does really well it might sell several hundred units in its first year or so of production. The idea that producing it anywhere outside of China will have any kind of effect at all on the labor environment or the governments oppressive stance on workers Hong Kong, the Uighurs, etc., is extremely naive.

To send any kind of message you would need to target a product with orders of magnitude more sales than the OSSC Pro could ever dream of. Think iPhones. Its one of the reasons I dont buy Apple products. People leaping to their deaths from the top of Foxconn production facilities over slave labor and wages building fucking cell phones that hundreds of millions of sheople eagerly pay $1200 every couple of years for.

Want to make a difference? Target Apple, not Marqs.

BS. You are responsible for smaller things as well. This is not a "campaign", you have to start with the small things, it all adds up. If many small projects boycot production in China, it definitely can send a message as well.

Your thinking is nothing more than a way to weasel out of responsibility. Compare climate change. A government might use your thinking as an excuse to not reduce greenhouse gas emission as much as would (otherwise) be possible, it makes cute doggy eyes and goes: oh but the other countries emit sooo much more greenhouse gas than us, our contribution would change so little, so our effort would not be worth it. It's always the others that have to make a move, not yourself, isn't it. Like a stubborn small kid. Just like thinking unnecessarily keeping the lights on doesn't matter. It's egoistic. (the other half of the stunt, btw, which is used for "bad" things, goes like: oh but if we don't do it, somebody else will do it anyway!) And that thought is viral, gets widely replicated. When your job might actually be to shatter that wall, setting a good example, creating the possibility that it may replicate.

Your argument is a comfortable argument, and an ignorant argument.