OSSC Pro

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fernan1234
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by fernan1234 »

spmbx wrote:You are right, as a european it makes 0 sense to move away from SCART. If an OSSC Pro or other hardware comes along that will require me to spend a fortune replacing my SCART cables for some other perceived better standard i will either just not do it and thus not buy it, and/or ditch everything and switch to a mister setup or something similar.
That won't happen, but even in an imaginary scenario where the OSSC or other hardware, most likely for design reasons, uses a DE15 (or "VGA") connector for RGBS or RGsB you would not need to replace your entire setup, but simply would need a single "(probably female) SCART to VGA" or such cable or adapter to go from your console SCART cables or SCART switch to the device.

In fact for the MiSTer you're already in that situation, needing the opposite (VGA to SCART) if you have a SCART-based setup, as the analogue IO board only has a DE15 connector, or if you used an HDMI to VGA DAC you would likewise need the cable/adapter mentioned above.
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bobrocks95
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by bobrocks95 »

ross wrote:I'm shocked North Americans didn't drop SCART the day they learned they'd have to shell out $240 for a gscartsw :P
That's what I did! As soon as I realized SCART was entirely consumer focused, and older switchers were either small, unreliable, or really expensive to import, I went full DB-15
PS1 Disc-Based Game ID BIOS patch for MemCard Pro and SD2PSX automatic VMC switching.
tongshadow
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by tongshadow »

The lack of DE15-> Female scart adapters really says alot about our society.
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kitty666cats
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by kitty666cats »

tongshadow wrote:The lack of DE15-> Female scart adapters really says alot about our society.
RGC UK never gave a reason for why they randomly stopped making them, it was really weird and almost cryptic... it could very well have to do with what I said in my last post - too many uneducated noobs trying to use said cables with 15kHz consoles on VGA monitors. Although... if you’re deep enough into this hobby where you would even WANT to buy such a cable, chances are you already know what you’re doing!

I really ought to get it together and make a big batch of those cables, they’d probably sell like hotcakes on eBay!
fernan1234
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by fernan1234 »

kitty666cats wrote:it could very well have to do with what I said in my last post - too many uneducated noobs trying to use said cables with 15kHz consoles on VGA monitors
As a seller you could reasonably deal with that by adding a sticker on the connector with "15khz only! Not for VGA monitors" or something like that.

Retro access makes custom DE15 cables, though they seem to not have taken custom orders for a while now.
kitty666cats wrote:I really ought to get it together and make a big batch of those cables, they’d probably sell like hotcakes on eBay!
When I transitioned away from a SCART setup, my SCART-DE15 cables took a few of days to sell, admittedly not as fast as my RA SCART cables
dandiego
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by dandiego »

fernan1234 wrote:
kitty666cats wrote:it could very well have to do with what I said in my last post - too many uneducated noobs trying to use said cables with 15kHz consoles on VGA monitors
As a seller you could reasonably deal with that by adding a sticker on the connector with "15khz only! Not for VGA monitors" or something like that.

Retro access makes custom DE15 cables, though they seem to not have taken custom orders for a while now.
kitty666cats wrote:I really ought to get it together and make a big batch of those cables, they’d probably sell like hotcakes on eBay!
When I transitioned away from a SCART setup, my SCART-DE15 cables took a few of days to sell, admittedly not as fast as my RA SCART cables
Is this basically the same thing? > https://retro-access.com/collections/an ... cart-cable
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Harrumph
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by Harrumph »

I’m sure SCART vs DE-15 is an interesting and valid discussion, but perhaps not in this thread?
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vol.2
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by vol.2 »

Harrumph wrote:I’m sure SCART vs DE-15 is an interesting and valid discussion, but perhaps not in this thread?
DE-15 is a wish list item for the OSSC Pro.
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orange808
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by orange808 »

vol.2 wrote:
Harrumph wrote:I’m sure SCART vs DE-15 is an interesting and valid discussion, but perhaps not in this thread?
DE-15 is a wish list item for the OSSC Pro.
Indeed.

We also need proper 480i support on the HD15/DE15 port. Right now, I have to address the issue by feeding some signals as RGBS on AV1. (While appreciated, the workaround menu setting on AV3 performs poorly for me.)

It doesn't matter where a person lives, a BNC to HD15/DE15 adapter is going to be less expensive than a custom BNC to SCART adapter. Furthermore, I can feed any video signal on an HD15/DE15, because it's commonly understood that a combined sync format (luma, composite, or clean) will be found on the "horizonal sync" pin. Although, I acknowledge that most setups will need a sync stripper before the switch, so RGBS clean sync is most likely.

The ability to feed a single HD15/DE15 input (on the OSSC Pro) from an Extron switcher (via BNC to HD15) would be very convenient for many users. It would also be nice to feed sync directly from a Crosspoint without worrying about sync voltage. The OSSC doesn't have proper 480i support and TTL support on one port.
We apologise for the inconvenience
fernan1234
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by fernan1234 »

orange808 wrote:The OSSC doesn't have proper 480i support and TTL support on one port.
Yes and it's a weakness of the OSSC along with AV3 not having low pass filter control. But this has all been addressed by the OSSC Pro

vol.2 wrote:DE-15 is a wish list item for the OSSC Pro.
It's not a wish list item, it's been part of the planned design all along.
Blacksheep
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by Blacksheep »

fernan1234 wrote:
vol.2 wrote:DE-15 is a wish list item for the OSSC Pro.
It's not a wish list item, it's been part of the planned design all along.
Right, the DE-15 connector was visible in the block diagram and concept pictures since the day this thread was started. And was probably already part of the OSSC Pro before that. It would be surprising if marqs ever had an OSSC Pro in mind without the connector, if only because the regular OSSC already had it. What's next, somebody asking for RGB support?
Harrumph wrote:I’m sure SCART vs DE-15 is an interesting and valid discussion, but perhaps not in this thread?
Right.
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vol.2
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by vol.2 »

Blacksheep wrote:What's next, somebody asking for RGB support?
Seriously. Calm down guy. No one appointed you to come in and launch aggro comments at people in the threads. Take that shit somewhere else.
ldeveraux
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by ldeveraux »

vol.2 wrote:
Blacksheep wrote:What's next, somebody asking for RGB support?
Seriously. Calm down guy. No one appointed you to come in and launch aggro comments at people in the threads. Take that shit somewhere else.
He's stolen my gig!
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matt
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by matt »

kitty666cats wrote:https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id= ... CKEALw_wcB

(picture of Monoprice cable)

These + console5.com = a great solution for DIY DE-15 cables, btw ;)
I've never had any luck with the audio portion of these cables, FWIW. The RGB lines are fully shielded coax, but audio and sync are thin gauge unshielded wire and the sound quality is pretty bad. You're better off using a regular VGA cable and running the audio separately.

But more on topic.... I don't like the SCART format either, but it's a de facto standard these days and all of Europe uses it. Not having a SCART connector on a device like this would be a little silly.
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marqs
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by marqs »

Harrumph wrote:I’m sure SCART vs DE-15 is an interesting and valid discussion, but perhaps not in this thread?
Yeah, the board has both so it's up to the user which one(s) to select. It's worth mentioning that I've utilized normally unused/reserved pins of SCART and HD15 to include support for 'missing' sync types of each other. Essentially video-level sync input is added on HD-15 (pin 4) and H+V syncs for SCART (pins 12 and 10) so various sources can be connected to either one with passive adapters.

I've recently run some performance tests and 2560x1440@60Hz seems to run fine already on current prototype even though it goes beyond specs of 3 different chips. The plan is now to upgrade HDMI TX (SiI1136) and FPGA (+1 speed grade), but 2560x1440@60Hz is still likely to remain an unofficial extra while 1920x1440@60Hz will be one that is guaranteed to work across all boards and conditions.
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kitty666cats
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by kitty666cats »

dandiego wrote:
kitty666cats wrote:I really ought to get it together and make a big batch of those cables, they’d probably sell like hotcakes on eBay!
Is this basically the same thing? > https://retro-access.com/collections/an ... cart-cable
I, personally, was referring to the lack of cables wired the opposite direction... female SCART w/ audio breakouts to male DE-15 - wired for composite sync (and, could install a LM1881 in said cable if the buyer does not have RGBS ‘csync’ cables already. Usually whenever people make custom cables like this, they pop an LM1881 in regardless - that way you’re getting the TTL sync levels that are most likely going to be needed for nearly all devices/monitors such an adapter cable would be used for). RGC UK / VGP used to make them:
Image
https://videogameperfection.com/2014/11 ... le-review/

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you want a cable like the one YOU linked (DE-15 source wired for composite sync + audio breakout to connect back to source’s audio output -> Male SCART), then I have two links that are FAR more affordable than RGC UK & the similar cables made by Retro Access (for some reason both companies market them specifically for Analogue consoles & try to deter customers from any other use case, but all they are is simply a DE-15 source wired for composite sync on the Hsync pin) / I can personally vouch for the cable in the first link working flawlessly for me (I use said cable with my Key Digital KD-CTCA2 component to RGB transcoder with the dipswitch set for negative sync + composite sync output. For my NTSC Wii in 15kHz mode for 240p RetroArch in my all-RGB setup)...

https://coolnovelties.co.uk/coolnovelti ... 07088.html
http://retrocables.es/tienda/index.php? ... &id_lang=4

Worth noting is that the first cable seems to be exactly the same as THIS one, only at a better price ;)

https://ultimatemister.com/product/rgb-scart-cable/


——————————————————————


...also, I have a bit of a bombshell RE: RGC UK’s cables - seems a lot of them are now being made dirt cheap in China, here’s some AliBaba store I uncovered recently:

https://m.alibaba.com/product/160009010 ... 5-Pin.html

https://m.alibaba.com/product/62338987828/detail.html

And this third link, you’ll see they also have the RGC UK component cables inspired by HD RetroVision’s cables! However, the console connector is bare and I have no idea if the inline transcoding PCBs are included or not -

https://m.alibaba.com/product/62412451725/detail.html

Unsure if anyone else has already made this known, it’s quite odd... it could be possible that the place in China is using RGC UK’s designs, but if I had to guess it’s RGC UK who is having these cables made by this place in China. This would definitely explain their odd lapses in cable quality over the years.

Others have caught on, those folks who make the VGA2SCART are clearly using the same cables. There’s also this Amazon cable:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08JGCXKRT/re ... UTF8&psc=1
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Guspaz
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by Guspaz »

kitty666cats wrote:https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id= ... CKEALw_wcB

Image

These + console5.com = a great solution for DIY DE-15 cables, btw ;)
Warning: I have bought dozens of these things for a convention and they are both very thick/stiff *and* suffer from really bad interference problems (with the audio). I don't know what kind of shielding they have inside (Monoprice provides zero information and I've never cut one open), but it's clear that at least the audio is unshielded. Unreliable/flakey too. Now, I was dealing with lengths like 25/50/100ft so maybe the shorter ones won't have issues, but if you're dealing with shorter runs, then what's the point of the combined cable in the first place? Just run the audio separately.
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matt
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by matt »

Guspaz wrote:Warning: I have bought dozens of these things for a convention and they are both very thick/stiff *and* suffer from really bad interference problems (with the audio). I don't know what kind of shielding they have inside (Monoprice provides zero information and I've never cut one open), but it's clear that at least the audio is unshielded. Unreliable/flakey too. Now, I was dealing with lengths like 25/50/100ft so maybe the shorter ones won't have issues, but if you're dealing with shorter runs, then what's the point of the combined cable in the first place? Just run the audio separately.
I've cut one of these open, and as I mentioned in another post the audio lines are very thin (28 gauge IIRC) and are bundled together with the sync and data lines. It's pretty bad. Their plain VGA cables are excellent however.
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maxtherabbit
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by maxtherabbit »

matt wrote: the audio lines are very thin (28 gauge IIRC) and are bundled together with the sync and data lines
:shock:

disgusting
XtraSmiley
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by XtraSmiley »

New question, and I apologize if this was answered in one page prior (maybe I even asked this myself, I'm getting old, can't remember shit), as far as the rotation goes...

Will it have the ability to rotate the image both directions (ie clockwise and counter clockwise)? The reason this is important is because of those older PCBs that don't have the modern rotation direction.

EDIT: and speaking of options, what about screen flip? This is something that others on here have talked about using to bring new life into games by making them feel new. Obviously it would need flip and rotate together.
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Fudoh
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by Fudoh »

There is no technical reason to offer one option, but not the other, so I'm absolutely sure that all viable options will be available eventually.

And yes, mirroring vertically scrolling games is still awesome. You'll be surprised on how fresh any title plays once mirrored.
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kitty666cats
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by kitty666cats »

Guspaz wrote:
kitty666cats wrote:https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id= ... CKEALw_wcB

Image

These + console5.com = a great solution for DIY DE-15 cables, btw ;)
Warning: I have bought dozens of these things for a convention and they are both very thick/stiff *and* suffer from really bad interference problems (with the audio). I don't know what kind of shielding they have inside (Monoprice provides zero information and I've never cut one open), but it's clear that at least the audio is unshielded. Unreliable/flakey too. Now, I was dealing with lengths like 25/50/100ft so maybe the shorter ones won't have issues, but if you're dealing with shorter runs, then what's the point of the combined cable in the first place? Just run the audio separately.
I personally just use a few 3 foot ones with a 4:4 VGA matrix (with 3.5mm audio jacks and no dang block terminals) and have no audio issues - the matrix handles the audio well, and the audio line that outputs to my speakers isn’t from one of these cables. Can’t speak on any that are over 3 feet, but I’m plenty content with the 3 footers. I got a pack of three for ~$15 with free shipping the other month so I said “why not”
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kitty666cats
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by kitty666cats »

Last post RE: this tangent we went on, but looks like someone has finally dropped a reasonably priced SCART to DE-15:

https://www.retroupgrades.co.uk/product ... a-adapter/
TyMiles2012
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by TyMiles2012 »

marqs wrote:
Harrumph wrote:I've recently run some performance tests and 2560x1440@60Hz seems to run fine already on current prototype even though it goes beyond specs of 3 different chips. The plan is now to upgrade HDMI TX (SiI1136) and FPGA (+1 speed grade), but 2560x1440@60Hz is still likely to remain an unofficial extra while 1920x1440@60Hz will be one that is guaranteed to work across all boards and conditions.
Could this be used to officially linetriple 480p? Or just unofficially at 2560? Usually 480p is at 720x480 rather than 640x480 at least through component input.
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Josh128
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by Josh128 »

TyMiles2012 wrote:
marqs wrote:
Harrumph wrote:I've recently run some performance tests and 2560x1440@60Hz seems to run fine already on current prototype even though it goes beyond specs of 3 different chips. The plan is now to upgrade HDMI TX (SiI1136) and FPGA (+1 speed grade), but 2560x1440@60Hz is still likely to remain an unofficial extra while 1920x1440@60Hz will be one that is guaranteed to work across all boards and conditions.
Could this be used to officially linetriple 480p? Or just unofficially at 2560? Usually 480p is at 720x480 rather than 640x480 at least through component input.
Line tripled 480p using two lines per game line and 1 line as a blank or black scanline would look fantastic on a 1440p TV or monitor.
McKie1
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by McKie1 »

Possibly a weird question but would it be possible to have multi-channel analogue audio inputs via the gpio?

It could then be combined with either the component or rgbhv inputs.

Cheers
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marqs
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by marqs »

kitty666cats wrote:Last post RE: this tangent we went on, but looks like someone has finally dropped a reasonably priced SCART to DE-15:

https://www.retroupgrades.co.uk/product ... a-adapter/
It's a shame that one is using LM1881 sync stripper instead of a more modern sync separator like ISL59885 which could generate H+V sync.
TyMiles2012 wrote:Could this be used to officially linetriple 480p? Or just unofficially at 2560? Usually 480p is at 720x480 rather than 640x480 at least through component input.
Majority of 4:3 480p games are 640x480 which is easily integer multiplied to 1920x1440. Different widths can be supported by tweaking sampling or alternatively polyphase scaling can be just used for X & Y which is usually better fit for 3D games anyway.
McKie1 wrote:Possibly a weird question but would it be possible to have multi-channel analogue audio inputs via the gpio?

It could then be combined with either the component or rgbhv inputs.
One could design an expansion card with analog audio inputs and appropiate ADC(s), but only 1 out 4 I2S data signals is routed from FPGA to HDMI TX (rest are RX->TX directy) due to IO pin limitations. It means that non-bitstream multichannel audio can only be used with HDMI sources, but I don't see many use cases for analog multichannel inputs aside perhaps retro PCs. Basic stereo sound can be still copied to back channels (5.1 / 7.1 matrixes) with all sources.
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vol.2
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by vol.2 »

marqs wrote:
kitty666cats wrote:Last post RE: this tangent we went on, but looks like someone has finally dropped a reasonably priced SCART to DE-15:

https://www.retroupgrades.co.uk/product ... a-adapter/
It's a shame that one is using LM1881 sync stripper instead of a more modern sync separator like ISL59885 which could generate H+V sync.

They are basically pin compatible. As far as I can tell, all you would have to do is swap the chips and bodge the H Sync line to the DE-15.
nmalinoski
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by nmalinoski »

On the topic of multichannel input, I don't remember seeing specifics about the TOSLINK jack--is it an input or an output?
Retrorunner
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Re: OSSC Pro

Post by Retrorunner »

Correct if I am wrong but the release date is set for 2021?
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