Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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BIL
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Volteccer_Jack wrote:
Marc wrote:I love the game, but it's too much for me to wrap my head around. I'm already panicking on level 3, and the rare occasion I make it to 4... yeah. :D
I'm just now getting comfortable with stage 3, myself. And hey, if I can do it...it doesn't mean anything because I'm better than everyone else

I feel like I have stage 3 down to a science now. In theory anyway, the actual down-in-the-dirt execution is still tense/stressful and may always be. First half of the stage Kusarigama, it's a strong anti-rifle tool for reasons BIL laid out, spin-attacks clear out the leaping zakos. Top priority is avoiding bullets but right below that is positioning properly to jump cleanly over Ghost, he will probably die if I have both clones but I really don't care, in fact ideally he will live to prevent respawn.

As soon as I see the marshland, switch to Sword, avoiding monk staff throws is the toppest of top priorities. Sometimes it's best to stop slashing for a moment here, as hitting their staff will cause it to return immediately, which I don't want--I want the throw to last as long as possible so the monk is out of the fight for longer. Going for any powerups here is a suicide mission, if it's not directly on the path I would have taken anyway then I ignore it. My whole strat for the boss is "have POW grenade and don't get shot by the riflemen."

For 4-1, I've had best success with Kusarigama, as it can deflect the enemy kusarigamas. Ryuchi is formidable, my "preferred" scenario is to leap cleanly over and past his slash arc and then finish him off as I'm landing. It's tricky tho, the last part of the swing that hits behind his head is nasty. Failing that, forcing him to chase you between floor and ceiling is effective, although very dangerous in the vicinity of Purples.

4-2...I dunno yet lol. It's mostly easy except for one part where you have to cross a good-sized stretch of ceiling; if a Ryuichi shows up at the wrong time you're pretty well stuck, since the jump button drops you onto spikes and you can't outmaneuver Ryuchi without jumps. Best solution I can see at the moment is to try to ensure before committing that you can cross safely.

Stage 4 boss is my wall for now, seems to be 'aimed' similar to stage 2 boss, but I haven't worked out a good reliable avoidance strat. Grenade seems like overwhelmingly the best weapon for this boss unless I'm missing something.

Brief glimpse of stage 5, not terribly tough so far? Really reminding me how wonky mid-air control is tho lol.
Vanguard wrote:Stage 3's marshland definitely feels like the point where the game gets serious. Never did find a good solution to those monks. Interesting that you'd favor the kusarigama in 4-1. No projectiles and lots of samurai mean bombs and shuriken are the only options for me. Stage 5 isn't hard exactly but it's pretty annoying if you don't have a path memorized. A slow, observant approach is a sure win but it isn't fun. It's got nothing on the end of 7, of course.
Round 5 is like a junior version of Round 7 - a memoriser sequence that loses 90% of its sting once you've nailed a route down. Not to sound down on it - it's over in ~30seconds, it lets me enjoy the rocketing max-height jump, and snatching the Shield from a nest of Reds is a fun heist. Also, the boss speedkill is a joyful uproar of grainy, crunchy SPLOSION Image

Oh nooo! *BLAOWOWOWWW*
Spoiler
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He shoulda kept his day job as Image Fight's second boss! :cool: This here NINJA COUNTRY Image

Round 4-1 is particularly idiosyncratic, with its RNG setups and improv focus. I strongly recommend Grenades, simply because no matter what hand you're dealt, or how you respond, they're best at flipping the table outright. Quicker than Kusarigama, and easier to connect than Shuriken. The only downside is splash blindness, gotta rein it in:

Why u DIRTY MUHFUCKA (■`W´■)
Spoiler
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The key to 4-2's ceiling crossings is controlled aggression. Get all your guys on the ceiling, and you're actually pretty unassailable. Charging Ryuichis can't make it more than a couple steps into a wall of x3 POW Shuriken/Grenades (I favour the former at Max Rank, the latter at Mid). Pursuing Brown Katanas will get annihilated by the Shadows, and Black Katanas can't hit a stationary player. While I like to use the ground - particularly with Grenades, as their lower stopping power is offset by forcing Ryuichis to jump, plus it lets me splash the ceilings to cull zako - it's by no means impossible to stay up top from start to finish.

What this requires is... Image
Tactical Espionage Action Image

Ceiling Team wa MUTEKI DA (■`W´■)
Spoiler
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If you get a knack for spoofing Blacks - just stay still - you can aggressively cancel them out of their whiffed stab flurries with a quick about-face, good when you want to aggressively gain ground. They (and Browns!) also can't hit a running player - it's creeping forward that'll get you stabbed. Either/or is the trick: stay still, or advance.

The only risk here is a Ryuichi leaping onto the ceiling from directly underneath you - but as long as you're alert, they shouldn't be able to without losing 95% HP on their way up. The spikes can camouflage them nastily, pay close attention there.

You actually can dodge their slash at overlap range, by moving into and through their X-axis with precise timing as they board, then killing them during the whiff - but this is a fairly pants-shitting maneuver, not to be invited! Image

The Bomb found after the long ceiling crossing is one of two I like to grab (the other is at the very end of 6-2). You can surf its blast wave into and through the final stretch, at which point it's just the trapdoor to deal with. I'm having a bastard of a time elucidating how I deal with those, but TLDR: they don't worry me much. Ryuichi has a pitifully hard time hitting stairbound players before they blow him up with a flurry of Shuriken/Grenades.

Image

Round 4 Boss/"TEH ACCURSED STONES" is very random, and also deceptively fast. On PCB and accurate emulation, x3 POW Grenades (the absolute best choice - their splash is invaluable here) will cause hella slowdown. Don't be fooled, their speed beats Tsukikage's run (though not his jump ascent or ceiling drop, making these valuable emergency escapes). The slowdown is more helpful than harmful, but don't let it lull you into complacency around them. If one gets close, you need to pre-emptively move away from it - by the time you've confirmed whether it's gonna pass by, or actively stomp/wall-splat you, it may be too late.

Their weakness is that only one can move at a time - they can't actively pincer you. Once one is moving, that's the only one you need to actively evade.

And while there's a lot of RNG here, the fight always starts the same way: in your favour. Nail 'em with Grenades as they come skidding down, and wait. Whichever charges at you, take a long jump into its former corner. Now you're on the opposite side of the room, and the next attacker has a long, inefficient journey to make. Alternating between the middle (trade places with the attacker) and sides (next attacker can be seen coming a mile off) is my general tack. Mid Rank has a much easier time here, they'll die after only a few reps. Max Rank has to contend with more RNG, though as shown above, the principle holds no matter how long they last.

Beware rodeo tactics. While it's fun to go for a ride, it invites a very silly, and very deadly glitch. Basically, it's not being "crushed" that kills, but the blue "photocopier beam," which fires whenever the stones make contact with a wall, a ceiling, or more haphazardly, each other. As shown, even if you're well in the clear, if it touches you you're dead. :wink:
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Udderdude »

FYI: Cyber Shadow releases on January 26th. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VtT9JS-8F4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMGNvioM0fI

Seems like it's coming to every major platform. PS4, Xbox, Switch, PC.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Good-looking game. Haven't really looked into it further, but it instantly registers that KoNatsume Compact Action Man™ styling.

Arf Arf! Accidental Rank75% run. Cocked up Round 5, again! Accidentally fell through a ledge right onto a POW. Gee thanks asshole! Image Oh well. Pretty marginal tbh.

This is the first run where I feel like I really motherfucked Boney-sama, who I'm tempted to refer to as Boney-kun, but won't. Went right in with the upshotted bunnyhop to the left, landed a mid-high volley, then the max-height wall drop. And here is why I feel like I done 'im wrong. :oops: Bolt RNG was comically enraged, solid wall of crackling green shite, much angry electrical sounds! Cue the pants-shitting escape to the right which is gradually becoming my trademark, and an aggressive mid-height execution. Pretty sure even at Rank100 I could've taken him out here, though it'd have been awfully close. Image

I'm trying to gradually chip away the "split-second error? inescapably motherfucked" element. I dunno if you really can. :oops: But I do know Rank50 takes a lot of edge off. Image If you're willing to gamble, you can get away with some pretty cocky stuff, like forming a "V" of mid-height barrages either side of Boney. It doesn't help that the bolts' patchy movement makes it tough to detect angry ones until it's too late... if you get one, or more, and you've not taken swift evasive action, the good times end pretty quick.

Boney-sama. He's an asshole!

Messed about with Grenade-only run in tonight's session, quickly went "FUCK this shit" :shock: :lol: But kept on with POW Grenades and regular everything else. As expected, big enemies and bosses die a half-second faster, but I got killed by a kunai and a Wolf in stage 6 consecutively and said fuck it for real. Losing POW Kusarigama ain't worth it, and Saigo doesn't need help killing me.

NAZO DU JOUR (■`ω´■) Is there a "cooldown" between enemy spawns of a single type? I do wonder. Got fairly ghastly Monk/Ryuichi teamups in this evening's credits, but reviewing footage, and thinking back, I can't seem to find instances of two of either spawning less than a second apart. Certain enemies clearly respawn more frequently than others - compare Ghost to Rifle. I wonder if this too is a thing.

Thing I am pretty sure tho (■`ω´■) Was wondering while writing the Rank section of my guide, whether it affects more than large enemy/Boss HP. I don't think it does. Got absolute nonstop motherfuck 6-1 RNG tonight and last night at Rank50. Image
BIL (THATS ME MUHFUCKA (■`W´■) ) wrote:Tactical Espionage Action Image
Goddamn, I'd forgotten what a killer tune KARAKURI (Mechanism)'s second half is. The sleepy first half has a mood too, apropos to a mysterious trap-loaded manor, but I suspect Masahiko Ishida intended the intensity to dial up when you hit Spikey Deathtrap Basement, and most definitely Crushing Ceiling Sub-Basement. I let it play through in my beta PC Engine Super CD ver. :cool: Headphones Warning! I am not good @ mixing desk. :oops: (considered replacing the weak HuCard SFX, I hate how they chirp through... I wonder if that'd be possible on an actual CD version?)

See also the awesome pummelling death drums of KIZAISHI (Omen)'s second half, which you won't hear in-game unless, like this madman, you wait around at the diving board. And even then, the regular boss theme KESSEN (Duel) will take over at Boney. Crumbs!

Apparently Ishida forgot to include the rest of R-Type II's fourth stage BGM, which is why it just lingers on those blaring power chords. I'd never have guessed something was amiss tbh, you can't exactly stop and smell the sine waves in that meatgrinder of a game. I bet these guys were working their asses off. Image

Image
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by trap15 »

BIL wrote:Apparently Ishida forgot to include the rest of R-Type II's fourth stage BGM, which is why it just lingers on those blaring power chords. I'd never have guessed something was amiss tbh, you can't exactly stop and smell the sine waves in that meatgrinder of a game. I bet these guys were working their asses off.
I always wondered why the R-Type II ending held on that one note forever, that's pretty funny that they just left in a mistake on purpose. Should've faded out or something though, it's definitely a bit awkward sounding :lol:
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Definite air of rock n' roll chaos in that interview, with the guy hanging on to the end of '89 cranking out killer OSTs and looping Image Fight, before the urge to get back onstage and RAWK finally became too strong. :mrgreen:
Shmuplations wrote:mysterious, nihilistic sound!
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by jepjepjep »

Irem were rock stars back in those days. It still cracks me up that they named their NES game after a heavy metal song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhGEGIBGLu8

I've gotta get back to my 1LC challenge in Saigo. I've come close a few times.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Marc »

Some dodgy-looking AA side scroller out on the JPN eShop last night. Not a clue what it is, but side-scrollers on avert screen are usually a pain in the ass.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

jepjepjep wrote:Irem were rock stars back in those days. It still cracks me up that they named their NES game after a heavy metal song.
Ishida did that one's OST too. Image Shame about the crummy command interpreter though! :evil: Peep these character/enemy names, Guilty Gear wishes it was as hardcore. :cool:

Incidentally, the MSX Gradius/Salamander guys were rocking out too. Sounds like they'd be good chaps for an evening of fine listening and fine shumping alike. Image

Image

Geezer did by all accounts like to blaze it!
Marc wrote:Some dodgy-looking AA side scroller out on the JPN eShop last night. Not a clue what it is, but side-scrollers on avert screen are usually a pain in the ass.
That's Nichibutsu's Cosmo Police Galivan, making its Switch debut some years behind the PS4 version. TBH, as soon as I saw it had [Up To Jump] and tied it to aiming upward, I ran away screaming. :wink: I searched around the forum a bit, in case I'd missed something... seems a reasonably well-regarded game on here. Watched Janet's customarily skillful 1CC, didn't feel much inspiration tbh. As tends to happen with Nichibutsu, I'm left wondering if I'm just missing something.

Their topdown run/gun Holy Warrior Amaterasu / Soldier Girl Amazon has some interesting ideas, namely high-speed vehicle hijacking. Hop in a monster tank and run those bastards down! Unfortunately, it has a bit of AC Contra/Jackal-style aim lag, never an easy sell. I'm hoping their Ninja Emaki shows up at some point. Never actually played it, I just adore that oldschool Kamui ninja manga aesthetic (shared by Saigo). Speaking of Saigo:

WASSHOI (■`W´■)

Image

This week's Sakusen: BONEY MUST DIE has gone alright, I think I have a pattern down. Calling it a night tomorrow, we'll see if Rabbit Fist Dojo can hold out against their bitter rivals Strong Bones School.
Rival Schools United By Fate Image Image Image

For now, I am here with an important PSA! Not only is Saigo's arcade instruction art nowhere as nice as its IREM M72 stablemate Hero Tonma's - it's also quite misleading! Image

Spoiler
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You do not need to rotate the stick/pad to get the POW Kusarigama swing - let alone so vigorously that steam is emitted from the controller housing! Even the tiniest directional adjustment during the initial attack will get you the whole swing every time! Holding [forward]? Tap [UF] or [UD]. Holding [down]? Tap [DL] or [DR]. Etc etc!

You can use cardinals too, that's what I like to do when the pad's in neutral, eg hop forward, neutral attack, tap [up] - whoa! SPINNEH-MAH-WINNEH is wiping out those lousy ZAKOTEKI not just left and right, but up and down and all around, too! Image
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by jepjepjep »

I just figured out how to capture arcade pcb footage, so I posted a 1cc run of Saigo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcvKumSMt04

In case you're wondering how the pcb capture compares with the PS4 footage, give it a look. Not a terrible run, but I'm still not too consistent with Stage 6 and Boney asshole. Of course this game seems to still bite me randomly even in areas that I'm confident in.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Good run, you've got all the fundamentals nailed down. :smile: Particularly liked the Boney kill, that boss is pure theatre every time. :shock: Seems max-height falls are definitely an asset there.

My current pattern is an immediate run-under followed by a mid-height volley, then a max-height fall, escape to the right, and a couple more mid-heights for the kill. The big risk is getting a freakishly early, aggressive first bolt, which can kill my run-under... but if I'm aggressive enough at landing near him out of the Ninja Pit, this already rare event seems to be held off.

This pattern seems 90% stable at Rank50 and Rank75. At Rank100, Boney can take about a second's more damage. For similar consistency, it seems you need a further puzzle piece: the diagonal upward attack, which is best-executed straight out of the drop. GACHI-sama uses this: Headphones Warning! It does heavy damage - if you're lucky, right up to the kill... but luck tends to run out, and suddenly, necessitating either falling back, or pressing through to the left. Things can go to hell so suddenly here - doesn't help that his sleepy/angry bolts, and their overall trajectories, aren't very readable.

I wonder if there's dudes who drop in from Boney's left. I'm not considering it, the thought of re-learning the Ninja Pit makes me want to die. :lol: Just can't recall seeing anyone do so.

It's so easy to die to Ryuichis on that final 6-1 shoal, with Monks, Whites and Greens all competing for your attention (and hops). I always breathe a sigh of relief when I reach the end of it, so any that spawn from the right will be launched. Boarding the shoals can be rough too - pretty much any time Ryuichis run in while you're already in a jump, you've got to do/die in short order. Either press on to the hop-over/drop-in, or retreat with an intensity novices may find extreme, because anything in Ryuichi's path is gonna be MOTHERFUCKIN SUSHI Image

Such a charismatic enemy. :mrgreen: The way their X-axis KAZEKIRI simply cannot be stopped, short of killing them outright - a deadly gambit with their rugged HP - is a classic bit of IREM genius. Bad dudes out for blood! But you can make 'em pay for their impudence!
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by jepjepjep »

BIL wrote: This pattern seems 90% stable at Rank50 and Rank75. At Rank100, Boney can take about a second's more damage. For similar consistency, it seems you need a further puzzle piece: the diagonal upward attack, which is best-executed straight out of the drop. GACHI-sama uses this: Headphones Warning! It does heavy damage - if you're lucky, right up to the kill... but luck tends to run out, and suddenly, necessitating either falling back, or pressing through to the left. Things can go to hell so suddenly here - doesn't help that his sleepy/angry bolts, and their overall trajectories, aren't very readable.
Oooh, I'm going to have to try out that strat. Lining up the shadows and all attacking diagonally; sounds like a recipe for destruction!
BIL wrote: I wonder if there's dudes who drop in from Boney's left. I'm not considering it, the thought of re-learning the Ninja Pit makes me want to die. :lol: Just can't recall seeing anyone do so.
I was actually practicing a left-ninja pit path yesterday, and I abandoned it after a while. It seemed much too tight compared to the right-side openings.
BIL wrote: It's so easy to die to Ryuichis on that final 6-1 shoal, with Monks, Whites and Greens all competing for your attention (and hops). I always breathe a sigh of relief when I reach the end of it, so any that spawn from the right will be launched. Boarding the shoals can be rough too - pretty much any time Ryuichis run in while you're already in a jump, you've got to do/die in short order. Either press on to the hop-over/drop-in, or retreat with an intensity novices may find extreme, because anything in Ryuichi's path is gonna be MOTHERFUCKIN SUSHI Image

Such a charismatic enemy. :mrgreen: The way their X-axis KAZEKIRI simply cannot be stopped, short of killing them outright - a deadly gambit with their rugged HP - is a classic bit of IREM genius. Bad dudes out for blood! But you can make 'em pay for their impudence!
Yeah, their design is genius. It's so satisfying to cross them up for the whiff and then kill. It's so devious the way they added the jumping slash Ryuichis in the second half of the stage.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Squire Grooktook »

Gentlemen, I am proud to announce that I will be throwing my hat into the ring of scrolling action monogatari! My new side project is officially a-go!

Image

Above video isn't showing any finalized jump arc or movement speeds or anything, purely testing the code for the basic environmental collisions and physics. For now gameplay mechanics are top secret! (because I haven't fully figured them out yet).

Rygar (arcade) should be an influence though.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Lately I've been thinking Rygar 2™ could've used a NG-style Jumpslash option for its still-unrivalled DARKNESS BOP :3 Maybe metered with storable stocks, ala KOF '98. I was gonna say fuelled by kills Image but maybe it'd be more intense to charge it based on gained ground. Blaster Master Zero 2's surprisingly compelling "shock absorber" charging has me thinking of unconventional yet action-conducive metering, even if "kill stuff" is always going to be a sure bet.

Or maybe no meter at all, ofc. That'd certainly work in a game as blistering-fast as Rygar, where even the mightiest airborne attack can end in disaster if you're not reading the room.

Anyway, armchair dev mode off for now. :lol:
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Squire Grooktook »

I'm sort of thinking of sooooooomething like Luminous Avenger's air dashing, maybe a little more restrained. Want a mechanic that lets you murder the zako hordes encroaching from all around while building up an unbroken but perilous forward momentum!
RegalSin wrote:Japan an almost perfect society always threatened by outsiders....................

Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

I need to get back to Luminous Avenger, I loved those two stages I played... being encouraged to ricochet off walls as a means of forward offense worked incredibly well. The only thing I'd change is zooming the FOV out a bit, which leads back to Rygar's supremely practical panoramic view. I'm a huge fan of Dragon: Marked For Death's approach here (FOV control on the right stick) - I think it should be part of more sidescrollers going forward, now that zoom's no longer a high-end hardware trick. Not that it's an issue in LA really, certainly nice to get Rockman Zero quality without RMZ's trying zoom.

Bagged a Metal Slug 4 no-miss over the past week, had a great time nailing this one down! While it can't approach Nazca's singular artistry, like any good mission pack, it's more than competitive on pace and intensity.

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I'm sorry, kids! That really was fucked up! I've gotta go home and wash this Nazi's asshole outta my mouth!

Noise Factory demonstrate some notable skill of their own, smoothing out Nazca's historically lopsided difficulty curves. Mission 1's upper route may be a dud, but the lower is wall-to-wall ultraviolence. Mission 2 breaks out one multi-pronged ambush after another, culiminating in a gargantuan boss to tear apart. Absolutely no lulls going forward. M3's low route is a rising bloody uproar, its treacherous footing geared for breakneck speed. M4's opening tank/heli skirmishes are some of sidescrolling's most lethally volatile. The pincering rebels' randomly-switching attacks (grenade, rocket, bowling ball) is a startling development I can't recall seeing elsewhere in the series, I really like that lethal uncertainty.

My only complaint is Mission 5 not granting quite enough firepower on either route, making corner-plinking more attractive than it might be. To be fair, I was conserving grenades for the boss, who is an absolute motherfucker - those thorny rocket hitboxes, brr. Had a bracing good time figuring out the safe kill... use the HMG for counter-offense, basically, and don't waste shots when there's no seekers in the air.

Otherwise, as much as it sucked to die at Allen in this evening's session (they fixed the MS1/X melee exploit :shock: - he'll backhand you out of it promptly, costing you your weapon :oops:), there's so much red meat to rip into over its 25min runtime, it never felt like a wasted trip. While it skews a little overly towards hard memo, with finished runs this smooth and tactically variable, I more than approve. By comparison, MSX/3 and to an extent even MS1's first no-miss can be a bit spirit-crushing, with so much riding on their 11th hours.

I always found the graphical pastiche easily warmed-to, this ultimately being Nazca's immortal work. I think the BGM actually took the bigger hit - it's well-done, but generally lacks HIYA's balance of bloodening grandeur and jingoistic farce, a sublime balance I've come to value just as strongly as Nazca's visuals. Exceptions to Mission 3's bangin' Monty Norman riff, a joyfully raucous accompaniment to the towering annihilation, and the credits BGM, which I wish had been used in the game itself - it's great! Happily, MS3's flawlessly refined controls are 100% intact, with no ghastly Dracula XX-style conversion mishaps, and even the busiest stages run with a notable smoothness.

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I screwed up my M4 boss speedkill setup, it's supposed to go like this. You gotta downshot earlier, or the hanging POW will cause you to automelee as shown. Crumbs! Had to panic-bomb my way through the rotting horde, which meant wasting Flame Shots meant for the boss freeing POWs. Oh well. Still fried him pretty nice. I don't play Slugs for score, but I looove playing 'em for efficiency. Image

I'm a bit annoyed at the ACA Neo Geo version - it's generally excellent, as to be expected of ACA, but the Hi Score mode enforces censorship, making an already aesthetically compromised Slug look like shit. Image Gallons of cum gushing down the street! :shock: More than I'm willing to put up with, unfortunately. Ala MS3, the route system leaves a lot of unfinished business, to be continued probably. For now, I just want to enjoy a hard-won, jizz-free replay. Image As always, if anyone thinks I'm falsificaring, I only request you accuse me ITT. For ego purposes. :lol:

EDIT: y'know, with MS4's plot, this is the one Slug where I could accept Synthetic Rebels. Hm.

My next project game is ACA Rygar, which lacks a HS mode altogether. Ah well. If things had gone differently last year, I'd have played this on my MVS cart, which sure as hell doesn't have a HS mode. It's rough out there, kids!

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Gonna get back to my Saigo ST first, though. After the Round 5 deathbug, which I've not seen since updating my route, I ran into another old friend. Although I've known about it for at least a year, try as I might, I can't trigger it deliberately, and I died this time before I could nail down an escape (was a good Rank100 run, god dammit).

I'm pretty sure you can escape, at least, but I wanna look into it a bit more in case there's a sure work-around. For now, uh, watch your step. :wink: Easier said than done in the utter inferno of Round 6, ofc! White Rains can get caught out too, it seems. Image Pretty sure I have at least one on video.
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Marc
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Marc »

You're not wrong about MS1, I had the first four stages down pat, the fifth threw the occasional problem, but the sixth....
And it was an arse to practise properly with the AA's wonky save system, I like my hi-score tables to reflect my progress, but having a soft save at the start of the stage meant I couldn't do that.
I've just realised however, that the Neo ASP allows proper save states - might be time to put this to bed once and for all.
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BIL
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Those end-game hellspikes are something of a Nazca trademark, unfortunately - MSX and especially MS3's might be even worse, with their hellishly dangerous final bosses (though it's of some small comfort that both of said bosses are very shut-downable). Creates intense heart-pounding pressure, but makes the earlier game feel kinda trivial, albeit gorgeously-produced. :mrgreen:

What I do with ACA Slugs, since AFAIK these games' US/JP versions are identical, is park a save in one's trouble spot du jour, then use the other for full runs. Currently got MS4 (US) parked at Mission 4's opening, which is both the game's most volatilely run-killing spot, and where Shit Gets Real. It's not ideal, but as I always say, it's still a damn sight more than arcade-goers get. :wink:

This reminds me... this MS4 project came about when I tried no-missing MS2 on a lark, to go with my MSX one. MS2's actually a pretty nice Black Label next to MSX's definitive cut. The final stage features an even more insane army of Mars Peoples, I'm pretty sure... feels like it, anyway.

My god though, the fucking slowdown. Even MSX still bogs down in a few spots (M3 early train, M5 streets, M6 bridge), but MS2 is just otherworldly. The cybernetic reflexes it grants make me feel like I'm cheating the whole way through, even though that last stage is genuinely dangerous in spite of the slideshow framerate. "Overclock" is the obvious answer, but I'm a fool for OG hardware/accurate emulations. Eh.

It's also the most beautiful Slug imo. The drier palette it shares with MS1/3 gives a painterly, varnished look, one MSX traded in for more striking but ultimately over-cartoony hues. MSX is still a beaut, mind, but MS2 is the creme de la creme of R2RKMF artwork. In stills. :oops: :lol:

---

Googled an old post and was treated to this wonderful rendition of GSK's Power Blade R2RKMF writeup. :o
(“R2RKMF” stands for “Working 2 the Proper, Killing Mom Fuckers”, by the by.)
WORK 2 THA PROPER Image Image
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Udderdude
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Udderdude »

Badly translated memes. Bane of my existence.
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Squire Grooktook
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Squire Grooktook »

More mechanical experimentation! Tried adding a quick-step dash and a hover. Either of these could go in the trash, but some sort of dash mechanic and air-dashing are definitely on the "gonna happen no matter what" list.

All tentative and unrefined of course. For this stage I'm just treating it like a toybox and throwing in and playing with whatever ideas come to mind and are feasible. Still need to add some stuff to the camera though to make it stop vertical tracking in areas where it's not needed...

For now the dash (which puts you in an aerial state by the way) is inspired by the short-hopping dash-step from Crescent Pale Mist, a movement mechanic that I had sorely wished was present in a more mechanically focused game. Still, I'm toying with maybe adding a more straightforward rocket-blitz forward dash instead. Will probably try out both and see which one sticks.
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mycophobia
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by mycophobia »

BIL wrote: Image

I'm sorry, kids! That really was fucked up! I've gotta go home and wash this Nazi's asshole outta my mouth!
lol
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BryanM »

Performed surgery on my cheapass joypad just now. The rebounders were flimsy, weak rubber as expected, a hideous clear homunculus all in one piece. Not the sturdy rubber you'd feel safe using on your car that "real" controllers use. But I discovered something I never expected: they ripped me off one screw. They secured the circuit board to the casing on the d-pad side, but not the button's. Which doesn't make sense if it was intentional - between the d-pad and the buttons, it's probably the buttons that the pigeons would notice shitting up first, right?

Cannibalized a case screw and now I can kinda play Mario 3 now.
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BIL
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Sony love doing this. :/ Rubber Cement is the garlic to Fat PS2 wallet vampires. Meanwhile, after a fortnight of Saigo and Metal Slug, I'm expecting my current DS4's dpad/buttons (materially identical) to die right as I reach the Rygar 1LC's finish line, sending me into a lava pit.

Only question is, are they saving 0.0001 JPY on parts, or is this an engineered scam?
Spoiler
Haha yeah, I know, it's both :[
I remember this great interview with Rockman/Lickle dude, can never recall his name offhand. >_< Shmuplations powers, activate! Aha, here it is. Akira Kitamura, there we go. I can never recall, because I barely play Rockmans! Love me some Lickle though! Image

Anyhoo, he mentions his colleague HMD's formerly programming the interfaces on construction equipment. So his code was very safe - because a Backhoe Glitch or Bulldozer Drop will ruin people's one-life clears IRL - but as a result, also a bit slow. I suspect HMD is the dude credited under the same moniker in 2010 Street Fighter, which chugs like a motherfucker at times (great game btw). Such care separates equipment from mere plasticised shite. Image

Image

SANWA: Bet Your Ass. Image
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copy-paster
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by copy-paster »

Call me a cheater or whatever you want, but I just learned today that beat em up with turbo button makes things slightly easier.

I barely beat stage 1 boss in The Punisher without losing a life w/o auto, and now I can beat him with it.
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mycophobia
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by mycophobia »

if auto makes the game better use it. i always say
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BIL
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Extreme button mashing is a dumb mechanic. I'm pretty sure I could outrun, outwrestle and outfuck Takahashi Meijin even if he wasn't decades older than me. Or at least give him a run for his money! (do not underestimate the opponent!) Star Soldier? If I'm playing that, it's to enjoy its shockingly bizarre terrain mechanic. I'd rather beat my dick on the controller than tap at 25hz or whatever ungodly rate you need to get max output.

I like the approach of Saigo, also seen in Metal Slug's power weapons, where the max firing rate is 1) very low and 2) very powerful. Mild tapping will get you a meaty wall of death, while solitary taps are good for precision snipes. I actually avoid autofire in both games - in Saigo you can't move or jump while attacking, and in Slug, it can waste ammo and interfere with knife timing. At most, I'll put an autofire button next to jump, but in their most precise straits I'm usually tapping.

In any case, playing with autofire won't grant you a massive advantage in these games, the way it will in something like Darius Gaiden, with its inanely high max firing rate. You won't kill bosses any faster than a moderately-tapping player. To be honest, in run/guns and full-on STGs, I prefer Sunset Riders' approach. Mild tapping while unpowered, inbuilt auto with upgrade. Shock Troopers has a decent setup, too. Holding the button lets you strafe, tapping gets you a bit more output once you've maneuvered to a good spot.

MS3 is the one Slug I hate playing without autofire, strictly for its Astro Slug segments, where your ship's default shot is unnervingly shitty. If it handled like the base pistols I'd be ok with it. You can see in my current 1LC (autofire banned by ACA Hi Score mode), where I just stop shooting down zako waves in a couple points, it's miserable. All good once the Vulcan upgrade shows up though.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BryanM »

That AVGN episode with the "speed board" always makes me laugh. The honorable gaymer unwilling to lower himself to outright cheating, but also really needs help holding his joypad in place for maximum finger blasting. I think that attitude lasted about ten years total before it became the fringe of the fringe?

Silver Surfer is freakin' misery, a crime against humanity without turbo.

(And I'm sure this has reminded ya'all of King of Monsters 2, the tricky game that does the opposite. Makes you think you need to mash buttons to do better, but, since it's a decent game, they knew not to do that to their players.)
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Volteccer_Jack »

Speaking of mashing, I just learned that this exists: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJtmZpRTVO8 (actual run starts at 4:30)
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BIL
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Jesus Christ. :lol: Love the unorthodox grip, very ninja. :cool: Thanks for the link, added to the run index!
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by FinalBaton »

So it has been done. No Hit Run done by a human. Interesting...
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mycophobia
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by mycophobia »

holy shit. i didnt think that was possible
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