From Software 'n such

[Blinge]

Don't come back, mate..

[Steamflogger Boss]

Also while I'm here, I just want to make everyone mad by saying I like Code Vein better than any Fromsoft game.

I mean, it's just an opinion about a video game so getting mad at it would be kinda weird. People experience games differently and my experience with it was a lot different. I tried it and sold it within a week (I think, it was pretty quick for sure), it was really boring to me and felt balanced around multi-player. I really wanted to like it too, because I really loved the aesthetic. I just, can't imagine playing it over a Souls game. I had many of the same issues with God Eater games.

[Squire Grooktook]

I mean, it's just an opinion about a video game so getting mad at it would be kinda weird. People experience games differently and my experience with it was a lot different.

It was a joke mang ^_^ particularly a good natured tease at Blinge~

I tried it and sold it within a week (I think, it was pretty quick for sure), it was really boring to me and felt balanced around multi-player. I really wanted to like it too, because I really loved the aesthetic. I just, can't imagine playing it over a Souls game. I had many of the same issues with God Eater games.

There's very little multiplayer in the game. A blink and you'll miss it co-op option and no pvp. Unless you're talking about the npc partner system, which is frankly brilliant.

I like it because it's fast as fuck (Bloodborne speed, if not faster) with a wider moveset and mobility options, and YS 1&2 tier convoluted dungeon mazes you can get lost in...but more importantly because of the absolutely charming mood, aesthetic, atmosphere, and feel of the setting and characters. Feels like the cast of Chrono Trigger got dropped into a grimdark post-apocalyptic vampiric mad max world and set out to make it a better place. Great mix of the melancholic and the uplifting, and absolutely inimitable in that special Japanese RPG sort of way.

But yeah PSA I don't understand why people act like the game is janky, and you should not listen to people who tell you it is. It's obviously lower budget but it plays extremely well and it's not afraid of having its own personality (which won me over immediately). Sincerely recommended to all peeps.

[Steamflogger Boss]

I definitely formed my opinion on it by actually playing the game. As far as the multi-player I meant it seems to want you to co-op, even if it's with an npc. NPC partner system as you called it. I didn't like that aspect. Maybe I didn't get far enough, but it wasn't feeling fun to play.

I believe it's on sale for $10 atm in the US.

[Squire Grooktook]

Yeah it definitely wants you to play with one of your npc buddies.

I like it a lot, and it's used very well. I compared the game to Chrono Trigger, and the fact that you always have a buddy at hand is a large part of that "rpg party" mood. Some might not like it for making the game less lonely, but it also makes it a lot more comfy and I love the attention to detail on all the partners dialogue (they all comment on everything going on, express their personalities well, and have tons of unique dialogue for every part of the game world, even when revisiting old areas from before you met them).

Gameplay wise, it's pretty interesting because it allows you to have much larger scale and chaotic fights in this kind of gameplay setup. You'll often have battles that would be overwhelmed in a regular Souls game, but become much more manageable when the enemy mobs aggro is split between two people. It's worked into the level design and mechanics (remember the Chrono Trigger comparison early? OH SHIT THOSE DUO BUFF SKILLS ARE RAD) really well and has a constant fun sense of teamwork as you and your npc come to eachother's rescue under pressure.

It comes to an incredible head at the Ornstein and Smough equivalent, where instead of running away and chipping one of them down, you're constantly dancing between which of them to give attention as spacing and aggro between you and your partner shift, rescuing your friendo whenever they get ganged up on lest the fight become an overwhelming 2-on-1. Absolutely fantastic, dynamic, and fast paced fight.

[Blinge]

i am very mad

Yeah it definitely wants you to play with one of your npc buddies.

ewww, no ty.

[Necronopticous]

Aw come on, B. What's wrong with a little jolly co-operation?

[floralcateyes]

Currently playing Code Vein myself. Maybe around half way through? Just beat the boss of Anor Londo. Halfway impressions:

* The story telling is interminably anime/modern jrpg. It's idea of pathos is dramatic violins while a character you met a few minutes ago predictably dies. Companions comment on a lot of things, but it's usually a generic "That's a useful item!" after you pick up a key item or "It's a ladder!" when you've already mounted said ladder or "Glad to be leaving those caverns!" when you're backtracking and entering a cave from its exit. And no, I'd rather not have a two-minute 2010's-jrpg-tier speech on friendship in my Soulslike, thanks. Obviously depends on whether or not you're down for this kind of fluff, which certainly has its place. But personally it's making me reconsider my habit of not skipping new cutscenes (in case of gameplay info or directions) and I don't find it bad enough to be endearing.

* I still feel like I'm cheating when I bring along the AI companion. The game does it's best to encourage it, but so many areas felt like they were designed to be tackled solo and are easily cheesed with an AI bud, especially if you're rocking a mage playstyle and letting Redhead With Big Sword tag along. I can use my weakest spell to aggro an enemy and let Big Sword do the dirty work, especially since said enemy will usually try chasing after me and completely ignore the guy slamming a Big Sword onto its head.

The only parts that feel designed for the companion are the invasions, which I dislike with a passion. Rather than send a unique NPC at you, the game sends multiple waves of 3-4 enemies that are instantly aggroed at you. It feels kinda cheap. Rather than presenting you with a thoughtfully placed group of enemies in an environment that adds to the challenge in interesting ways, it just tries to bullrush and overwhelm you. I've beaten every boss so far first try. I've died multiple times to a single invasion spot which involved the area's most difficult enemies blurring together and hitting me through each other. But maybe I'm just bad and need to learn crowd control lol.

* Ambivalent about the ichor system, which is a mana pool for all of your spells and abilities. On the one hand, the fact that you can recharge your ichor just by hitting enemies with your melee attacks and can even temporarily increase your max ichor via backstabs and special attacks makes mages feel even more OP. Though this is very awkwardly balanced by how Big Sword has a penchant for killing enemies before I can use them to recharge. On the other hand, it does add to that "Should I push on?" feeling discussed above and elsewhere. I frequently forego chances to rest at a bonfire to take advantage of my jacked-up ichor (resting resets your max ichor to its default). And I sometimes consider backtracking to fight some mooks and increase my max ichor before tackling a boss (never needed to though).

* Areas look bland so far. Purple-grey caves with giant spikes to look cool. Yellow-brown city ruins with giant spikes to look cool. Red-brown cliffs. Blue-grey city ruins, but its in a cave and flooded! A place that, upon first seeing it, made me go "oh it's anor londo," but I was wrong it was actually Anor Londo if the same tower and walkway was copy-pasted a thousand times.

* That said, the level design is actually really good. Copy-paste Londo is a lovely little labyrinth filled with hidden paths and drops. Lots of verticality and paths that overlap and knot into themselves. The copy-paste actually worked in its favor. And consulting the mini-map (yes there's a mini-map) is likely to get you even more lost than if you ignored it. Other areas so far are great as well, doing a really good job of rewarding exploration, observation, and even a little deduction (i.e. "That item is on a platform above me, but I can see a ladder that extends below the ground, so maybe a I should look for a drop point along the nearby cliffs..."). There's possibly too much reliance on the old "enemy waiting for your right behind a corner" trick, but it does throw some fun variants on that into the mix.

* I find it noticeably easier than the actual Souls game, and this is coming from someone who (1) forgets that blocks and parries exist, and (2) only played through those three games once each and was terrible at them. 3's first Lothric knight was an actual wall for me. I beat that game's last boss by mostly staying far away and pelting it with arrows. That bad. Yet I haven't died to a single boss in Code Vein. Then again, I did find Sekiro to be much easier than the Souls games, so maybe I'm just weird.

* Wouldn't have been able to tell it has a reputation for jank. Again, some enemies attack through each other, and I've been hit through a wall once. There was also one time when the AI companion ran in front of a patrolling enemy and even bumped into it, but the two just ignored each other. Aside from those though, there isn't much else I'd call jank. I did play through Dark Souls on PC without knowing that DSfix existed though, so maybe not the best judge of that.

* Most important point: Fashion Souls feels more limited here. Though you can do some fun stuff like wear a tiny top hat or wear one of those chains that go from your ear to your nose but adjust it so it goes from one eyelid to the other. Guess it depends on whether or not you prefer Vein's anime aesthetic or like cosplaying in games.

All that said, I am enjoying the game so far. Level design continues to pleasantly surprise me, and the moment-to-moment gameplay feels good enough. Excited for the O&S counterpart Squire mentioned.

[Sumez]

* The story telling is interminably anime/modern jrpg. It's idea of pathos is dramatic violins while a character you met a few minutes ago predictably dies. Companions comment on a lot of things, but it's usually a generic "That's a useful item!" after you pick up a key item or "It's a ladder!" when you've already mounted said ladder or "Glad to be leaving those caverns!" when you're backtracking and entering a cave from its exit.

Roads leading to gran soren or bust

[floralcateyes]

Roads leading to gran soren or bust

That game has so many great quotes. They're masterworks all. You can't go wrong.

[Blinge]

Aw come on, B. What's wrong with a little jolly co-operation?

umm, well if souls is anything to go by, having an NPC in the room with you trivialises pretty much everything.
I only ever summoned buds on later playthroughs for quest lines.

Edit: Listening to some of the DeS remastered Ost.

New Tower Knight theme:



ha! ha ha hah ha!

Final Burinju Revue of new DeS ost. If you don't agree with me YOuR STUPED

I liked each track if they somehow stuck to the original ideals, even when becoming thiccer and more orchestral.

Demon's Souls Title Track =
The Beginning =
Tales of Old =

Phalanx = Look what they did to my boy! It's a totally different melody, different everything. It's generic AF.
Tower Knight = What the fuck is this.
Penetrator = Plus points for him getting his own theme now, has hints of the old Pen/tower knight theme later in the track, this appeases me somewhat.
Old King Allant = Yeah I like the new (de facto) final boss theme being big and epic now. The original organs don't cut it imo.

Armor Spider = Okay I see you!
Flamelurker = On the fence about this one.
Dragon God = While I prefer the theme to the very forgettable OG.. it's a bit TOO big, considering the non event that is this boss, but the slow drudgery of the theme fits.

Fool's Idol = Beautiful
Maneater = Sick, this battle deserves tense AF music.
Old Monk = Yeah iss alright.

Abdjudicator and Old Hero? fuck knows, it's not in the OST uploads for some reason and the boss clips online I've seen are people going in super buffed and just wrecking the boss so pfffft. I'll have to wait. (what's the point of even uploading clips like that)

Storm King = It's a great track but does it really fit?

Leechmonger = It's okay I guess
Dirty Colossus = Decent, actually!
Maiden Astraea = Hot take... I actually like this one. Despite it being bigger, and orchestral they've stayed true to the original theme

The Old One =
Maiden in Black =

One Who Craves Souls = Doesn't quite get there.
Return to Slumber = never cared for the OG either.

[Squire Grooktook]

* The story telling is interminably anime/modern jrpg. It's idea of pathos is dramatic violins while a character you met a few minutes ago predictably dies...Obviously depends on whether or not you're down for this kind of fluff, which certainly has its place. But personally it's making me reconsider my habit of not skipping new cutscenes (in case of gameplay info or directions) and I don't find it bad enough to be endearing.

People might get the wrong impression of me from my posts, but I'm not actually a huge jrpg man. I appreciate the classics, and there are a few gems and diamonds in the roughs that I love from the modern era, but I'm overall can't call myself a major fan or follower of the genre, I don't think. I've never gotten too big into the Tales Of series, abandoned a lot of the Final Fantasies, have only ambivalent knowledge of the more obscure and weeb-tier games, etc.

But when that shit is good? When it's well executed? When it's got that "feel" and ethos to it? I love the fuck out of it. And CV is definitely one of those times. While the vampiric mad-max faux-souls setting is unique and fun in its own right, the plot/characters are thematically straightforward as an arrow and completely unironic, and that's why I love it. I find myself comparing it to Chrono Trigger, because that's the vibe it sort of gives me. It's got the same sense of innocent, unironic heroism and can-do optimism. Which is why I absolutely don't mind having speeches about friendship and self sacrifice in my Soulslike. After 5 games and countless replays of weary existentialism, some chicken soup for the soul is exactly what the doctor ordered.

Obviously not for everyone. Like if you don't have a soul, for example, or you dropped your humanity and it got eaten by a giant plague rate, I could see thinking it's a bit cliche in that case.

Companions comment on a lot of things, but it's usually a generic "That's a useful item!" after you pick up a key item or "It's a ladder!" when you've already mounted said ladder or "Glad to be leaving those caverns!" when you're backtracking and entering a cave from its exit.

There's definitely some good ones mang. Like revisiting the arena of one early-game boss fight with

Spoiler

Io

many hours after her joining the party, she'll remark dreamily about the coccoon outliving its host. Really caught me off guard because it was a bit of an extra effort to add that in there that I wouldn't have expected.

Likewise, there are parts in the game where bringing the right companion to the right sequence/dungeon will have entire conversations running throughout the course of it (I can think if one major example off the top of my head, not sure if there's any as major though).

While most of the dialogue is utilitarian indeed, there's just enough "character" moments sprinkled throughout and extra efforts like that which manages to turn it towards genuinely charming. It helps that the english VA's are mostly solid and some seem to be having fun with their roles. On that note gotta give special mention to

Spoiler

Mido

who epitomizes the RLM meme of "He's evil and he loves it!" as his VA relishes every opportunity to smugly chew the scenery like it's an all you can eat buffet.

* I still feel like I'm cheating when I bring along the AI companion.

Honestly, I think the game is just not that hard to begin with, AI partner or not. Which - after the draining experience of revisiting Ludwig The Accursed and promptly giving up on a second victory over Orphan of Kos - I am completely fine with.

With that in mind, and not being afraid of cheese, I find the whole system a lot of fun. My advice is to play less cautiously and in a more fast paced manner. Don't worry about picking off huge hordes from a distance, but play it like a more traditional action game and charge in knowing that you have backup trailing behind.

TBH I do wonder if the game wouldn't have the odd (and undeserved) love/hate reception it does if it strayed even further from the Souls formula. Take out stamina and the haze-drops and treat it as a more straightforward flashy-yet-grounded character-action-rpg and I wonder if a lot of the people who think it poor for directly comparing it to Fromsoft's productions would be more kind to it (also the leveling system and customization - which are designed around freely letting you change your build and experiment with all options, encouraging you to do so even- already feels like it would be more at home in a more "traditional" action-rpg). For me, the fact that it's already doing its own thing and deliberately has its own personality (in gameplay, aesthetic, story, etc.) is what immediately won me over when other imitators tend to make me roll my eyes.

* Ambivalent about the ichor system, which is a mana pool for all of your spells and abilities. On the one hand, the fact that you can recharge your ichor just by hitting enemies with your melee attacks and can even temporarily increase your max ichor via backstabs and special attacks makes mages feel even more OP. Though this is very awkwardly balanced by how Big Sword has a penchant for killing enemies before I can use them to recharge. On the other hand, it does add to that "Should I push on?" feeling discussed above and elsewhere. I frequently forego chances to rest at a bonfire to take advantage of my jacked-up ichor (resting resets your max ichor to its default). And I sometimes consider backtracking to fight some mooks and increase my max ichor before tackling a boss (never needed to though).

Love the Ichor system. It allows you to indulge more freely in a massive moveset, pulling off Devil May Cry-esque stylings on enemies, yet balances out ranged powers and spams by forcing you to periodically close the distance and rush down enemies to recharge it quickly. It's quite the breath of fresh air to Bloodborne where I build my character around acquiring every Hunters Tool, exhaust all my resources with one or two casts in a boss fight while doing barely more damage than a melee combo, and then cry into a pillow over my shriveled blue balls.

I'm sure you can certainly cheese the game with the right combo and build, but as I said above, it's hard to care when not approached from the same Souls-y perspective. Or when you've played RPG's long enough to know that balance is a meme anyway.

* That said, the level design is actually really good. Copy-paste Londo is a lovely little labyrinth filled with hidden paths and drops. Lots of verticality and paths that overlap and knot into themselves. The copy-paste actually worked in its favor. And consulting the mini-map (yes there's a mini-map) is likely to get you even more lost than if you ignored it. Other areas so far are great as well, doing a really good job of rewarding exploration, observation, and even a little deduction (i.e. "That item is on a platform above me, but I can see a ladder that extends below the ground, so maybe a I should look for a drop point along the nearby cliffs..."). There's possibly too much reliance on the old "enemy waiting for your right behind a corner" trick, but it does throw some fun variants on that into the mix.

Glad we agree on this! Not-Anor-Londo reminds me a great deal of a Ys 1&2 dungeon. An absolutely unforgiving, engrossing maze that requires deliberate effort and attention to mentally map. It's definitely the climax of that kind of level design in the game, but in general the "levels" in the game do have that feel of actually expecting you to keep track of your bearings.

Amusingly, I was told that Not-Anor-Londo was the worst part of the game and the one that made everyone quit it. Fuckin' plebs.

[floralcateyes]

But when that shit is good? When it's well executed? When it's got that "feel" and ethos to it? I love the fuck out of it. And CV is definitely one of those times. While the vampiric mad-max faux-souls setting is unique and fun in its own right, the plot/characters are thematically straightforward as an arrow and completely unironic, and that's why I love it. I find myself comparing it to Chrono Trigger, because that's the vibe it sort of gives me. It's got the same sense of innocent, unironic heroism and can-do optimism. Which is why I absolutely don't mind having speeches about friendship and self sacrifice in my Soulslike. After 5 games and countless replays of weary existentialism, some chicken soup for the soul is exactly what the doctor ordered.

Different strokes, etc. There's possibly only one jrpg (trilogy) whose story I genuinely love, and it's my favorite story in videogames. Precisely because it does that "innocent, unironic heroism and can-do optimism" so well. But the vibe I'm getting from CV is... different? Find it self-serious and even pompous at times. And for all it's PREPARE TO DIE reputation, the first Dark Souls for example had moments of levity. It's funny when you open a chest and it eats you and starts doing jumping spinning kicks. It's funny when the skeleton that kicks your inexperienced ass reassembles itself but has to pat its skull to make sure it's in place. It's funny when the lizardude's only reason for existing is to be run over by a boulder. The giant serpents with the flesh moustaches (better than flesh fangs) are pompous but ridiculous. That's just one game. But I don't feel like CV has any of that..? Again, different strokes, etc.

TBH I do wonder if the game wouldn't have the odd (and undeserved) love/hate reception it does if it strayed even further from the Souls formula. Take out stamina and the haze-drops and treat it as a more straightforward flashy-yet-grounded character-action-rpg and I wonder if a lot of the people who think it poor for directly comparing it to Fromsoft's productions would be more kind to it

That's a good point. Was actually wondering what the God Eater series plays like (same dev, right?). Was going to ask if you've tried it, but we're already stinking up the From thread with Weeb Souls

As far as the customization goes: I guess some may not like how freely switching among classes requires less commitment when making a build. But I appreciate the flexibility. Find the proficiency system a bit weird though. On paper, it should encourage you to really vary your playstyle as you switch to a different class to gain its abilities. In practice, there's nothing stopping you from switching classes, equipping the desired gifts, then playing as you normally would. Though I guess that "nothing stopping you" thing is the appeal for others.

Amusingly, I was told that Not-Anor-Londo was the worst part of the game and the one that made everyone quit it. Fuckin' plebs.

Would never have guessed. Favorite area so far.

[Squire Grooktook]

Different strokes, etc. There's possibly only one jrpg (trilogy) whose story I genuinely love, and it's my favorite story in videogames. Precisely because it does that "innocent, unironic heroism and can-do optimism" so well. But the vibe I'm getting from CV is... different? Find it self-serious and even pompous at times. And for all it's PREPARE TO DIE reputation, the first Dark Souls for example had moments of levity. It's funny when you open a chest and it eats you and starts doing jumping spinning kicks. It's funny when the skeleton that kicks your inexperienced ass reassembles itself but has to pat its skull to make sure it's in place. It's funny when the lizardude's only reason for existing is to be run over by a boulder. The giant serpents with the flesh moustaches (better than flesh fangs) are pompous but ridiculous. That's just one game. But I don't feel like CV has any of that..? Again, different strokes, etc.

Hm, pompous is definitely not how it strikes me. More how I would describe it is "earnest". Which is something I incredibly, incredibly value in media these days.

What I mean by earnest is that it presents itself without any irony, without a wink and a nod, without undermining itself. It's not gonna go the Indivisible and Joss Whedon route where it presents its concept but doesn't have the bravery to sell it, so just indulges in self parody in hopes that'll deflect criticism.

"Hey we super heroes are going to save the world! Isn't that SILLY? I mean super heroes are cool, and we're cool, but haha, this could tooootally never happen in real life huh? I mean, imagine guys wearing spandex, haha... [quip quip quip] [Loud Sweating] haha...please clap"

Of course being earnest entails taking what you're doing seriously, but I don't think it also entails a lack of levity. I can't think of a ton that's outright funny (though

Spoiler

Io's

frequent innocent "I hope a short rest will do you some good!" remark after pummeling a Lost into bloody paste with a giant halberd does bring a smile), but the game has its fair share of "comfy" moments, and also ones that are sweet. A friend of mine described the scene where you save

Spoiler

Nicola

in the true end route as "like something out of an old Disney film", and I think that's a good way of putting it.

That's a good point. Was actually wondering what the God Eater series plays like (same dev, right?). Was going to ask if you've tried it, but we're already stinking up the From thread with Weeb Souls

As far as the customization goes: I guess some may not like how freely switching among classes requires less commitment when making a build. But I appreciate the flexibility. Find the proficiency system a bit weird though. On paper, it should encourage you to really vary your playstyle as you switch to a different class to gain its abilities. In practice, there's nothing stopping you from switching classes, equipping the desired gifts, then playing as you normally would. Though I guess that "nothing stopping you" thing is the appeal for others.

I have not played God Eater, but with the latest Steam sale going on, I asked the same friend who recommended me CV about Godeater, and he wholeheartedly described it as one of his favorite games. So Imma put it on the list for sure. From what I understand, it is to the Monster Hunter series what CV is to Dark Souls. I'm told the first two games are somewhat limited, being PSP ports, but the third significantly ups the ante with some interesting new mobility mechanics.

But yeah, I think Souls (particularly Dark Souls 1's) character building is some of the best designed, most interesting character progression in the genre in terms of how it flawlessly fuses action and rpg (two genres frequently at war with eachother), so it's hard to top. But if there's one...not so much criticism, but remark on it, it's that 90% of the tantalizing equipment you discover while exploring is stuff you're going to be locked out of and unable to use for the current playthrough. At least past the midpoint. CV on the other hand reels back the character building and allows you to treat it more like one big toybox, trying out things at your leisure and mixing and matching into your own personal suite of favorite moves and preferred stats by the end-game. It's a nice thematic counterpart, which works well for the larger moveset and more breezy, actiony feel the game goes for.

[Sumez]

Nice work! Here's my SL1 fight from last night where I committed to a formal apology before delivering the final blow:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/809794084

Necron convinced to pull the same stunt on Kalameet.
What a bastard on SL1 :O

https://youtu.be/Qd4rQ7mtQ_w?t=507

[Blinge]

Oh what.. Sumez actually replayed the game or did a DLC!?!?

It’s presented as this big open area, but in actual fact is divided into a bunch of smaller ones that funnel you through bottlenecks. Attempting to perch on a roof and scope things out seems to result in you being spotted every time and having to wait out their trigger period, once alerted it seems you can approach from a completely different direction and still be seen. Camera is as fuck-awful as expected.

How is it presented as an open area?

The roof perching I know what you mean.. it's with the little row houses to the right as you enter the estate across the big bridge.
There's dudes in alleyways, dogs, snipers on the rooftops that can see you as you go up there. Sneak around corners low down to be less detectable.

Camera is bad? Again.. can someone tell me of a 3rd person free-cam game with a better camera?
At least you turn mostly invisible when mushed up against a wall in sek.

https://youtu.be/X3vLKSo6B0g
Okay so.. second clip in here shows how to get the first deathblow on Shinobi Hunter spear dude.

I was fucking around on a roof there to test what you said but that's before I realised which roof you were talking about.

[Necronopticous]

[rapoon]

Camera is bad? Again.. can someone tell me of a 3rd person free-cam game with a better camera?

lul... there's a reason the endgame souls boss is FROMs camera has been a meme for over a decade....

but since you want examples:

bayonetta
lords of the fallen
the surge
the surge 2
jedi: fallen order
nioh
nioh 2
ghost of tsushima <-- this should be the gold standard for camera mechanics and it doesn't even have a lock-on.

^ not a single one of those has an epileptic fit when panning the camera around while the character is against a wall.
you're on about Sekiro? lets talk about all those camera unlocks when fighting Owl (Father) and trying to use the pillars defensively or trying to fight him anywhere other than the middle of the room.
oh wait, how about how second stage the owl will fly right in front of the camera! whoever designed that fight is a fucking chach.

I love FROMs games but there are facets of their repeatedly implemented mechanics that are just miserable as shit.

[Blinge]

I'm sure there is, but why can i gain so much enjoyment and rarely ever get bothered by the camera, while the 'meme' entails blistering dribbling nerd rage over the camera in countless online rants on youtube.

To the point where it's laughable to you that I don't agree the camera is terrible, and my genuine reaction isn't to be annoyed by you rapoon, but like... a bit confused.
You making sure to turn off "camera auto wall recovery?"


Bayonetta never has you fighting up against a wall or in enclosed spaces iirc. They're always semi-open battle arenas at the very least.

list of mostly soulslikes.

okay, you have my attention! I own Lords of the Fallen actually, I should really get around to trying it.

Camera unlocks? yknow, I've wondered if this is by design, you're fighting a shinobi with disorienting movement and deception. Or is it just an error.
The spell flying into the screen is a non issue for me. That's definitely by design, he throws it out and follows up with a physical attack, like a fireball jump-in. You literally just jump vs that attack then hold block. 100%

Also, spoilers dude cmon we got someone who's just started the game in here.

[rapoon]

I'm sure there is, but why can i gain so much enjoyment and rarely ever get bothered by the camera, while the 'meme' entails blistering dribbling nerd rage over the camera in countless online rants on youtube.

probably for the same reason not everyone wants to adjust their FoV, invert the x/y-axis, or remap their controls....
if it doesn't bother you, why are you asking for examples?

You making sure to turn off "camera auto wall recovery?"

No such option exists in Sekiro. but it can and does help a bit with Dark Souls.

Bayonetta never has you fighting up against a wall or in enclosed spaces iirc. They're always semi-open battle arenas at the very least.

Bayonetta does have interior fights. If you want another Platinum example, Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance.

Camera unlocks? yknow, I've wondered if this is by design, you're fighting a shinobi with disorienting movement and deception. Or is it just an error.

we're already in the protracted, sycophantic 'by design' phase of the discussion!
of course it's by design.... they didn't accidentally omit surface transparency or introduce unlocking if line of sight is broken. that's the fucking point... every example I or anyone else can provide you with, doesn't implement an archaic mechanic.

[Blinge]

Edit: cba to have another fromsoft shitfight today.
Maybe it's cause I grew up wrestling with ocarina's camera that it doesn't bother me.
Maybe don't get cornered.

haven't played tsushima but asked my mate about its camera being the gold standard and a verdict of 'no fucking way' was given.
not sure when i'll be able to see for myself.

ediit: oh shit I just watched that camera vid in Sekiro. holy fuck! i've never seen anything like that!

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Blinge's Magic Only run of King's Field 1 (JP) features some hot platypus on statue action.



Bayonetta has a few "tight" fights but nothing terribly noteworthy. The only super tight fights are two of the early fights in the late game chapter "A Tower to Truth" which are annoying, and the last Jeanne fight during the missile riding segment where the camera is hot garbage. Bayonetta does also have the annoying habit of causing the camera to swing and do a 180 if you touch a wall such as during an Alfheim / Lost Chapter, but all of this is manageable and balanced by the fact that you have a universal dodge with forgiving i-frames, a dodge -> dash with i-frames on startup, and a shield accessory that can negate all damage and stagger from hits if something does happen to connect in exchange for magic drain over time. In Souls terminology, this would be a buff spell that lets you poise-tank 2 or so hits and take no damage doing it, perfect for trading blows safely. Bayo's also designed that you can, if need be, dodge based on audio cue.

[Blinge]

No Melee run ya mean!

aww dude you saved me the hassle of posting it myself <3

Edit: god damnit Roo did you have to timestamp to that moment! xD

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Whoops. I think I deciding between saying No Melee or Magic Only and somehow combined the two into HORRIBLE FUSION OF WRONGNESS. ;w; Fixed.

I really do love King's Field, was so fun to go through it blind months ago. I can't express enough how much it made my day to see this video get posted today.

[Marc]

Also, spoilers dude cmon we got someone who's just started the game in here.

I think my relative silence since the first post or two should have said it all

I will play it, definitely, but I've a shit ton of stuff on the list so I've decided to go back and have a bash at some of the more manageable stuff I've had languishing on the PS4 HD.

I'll save Sekiro for the cold, shitty New Years months, when I enter 2021 pissed that COVID is still lingering, and I still can't go to the pub or a gig. Should cheer me right up.

[Steamflogger Boss]

Ran into someone that thinks DSR is "rough" and a "bad game that does not hold up well". I have zero energy for these people.

[drauch]

Beat Shadow Tower the other week. Really dug it. As y'all mentioned, started off kinda intimidating but that didn't last long and I ended up with plenty of gear and infinite HPs. My only minor criticism is the amount of shockwave/projectile enemies that shoot through walls. There's not an overwhelming amount, but lordy they're atrocious. Mole bro is great. Does he make a return in ST2?

Instantly went to Dark Souls 2:SotFS. Just finished Harvest Valley, which I'm hoping is the most miserable area. What's the general beef with this one? So far I'm just kinda bummed by the lack of unique-looking, non-humanoid enemies.

[Blinge]

Lol Steamflogger. same.

I've had some cunt try and explain to me that Let it Die is no less fair than Souls, and that all the hitboxes in DS1/2 are scuffed.
Another reminder that I need to stop getting into online arguments.

Ah Drauch I've heard tell (from the KF discord, not confirmed) that the abundance of humanoid enemies in 2 was because From used some new mocap tech that Bamco really wanted to market the game with!
That would make a lot of sense.

[Steamflogger Boss]

Lol Steamflogger. same.

I've had some cunt try and explain to me that Let it Die is no less fair than Souls, and that all the hitboxes in DS1/2 are scuffed.
Another reminder that I need to stop getting into online arguments.

Important update: despite me saying I wasn't going to argue about it they had to give reasons. The main reasons were only rolling in 4 directions and online is dead.

[Blinge]

FML

Also you can roll wherever you want just don't lock on?