From Software 'n such

[Blinge]

Ordered Sekiro

Support & Intel team, assemble!

[Marc]

Ordered Sekiro

Support & Intel team, assemble!

Honestly, I'm kind of dreading it.
I'd hit my skill ceiling with Bloodbourne, the no-summon rule went out the window around halfway through.
Oh shit, there's still the DLC for that as well....

[Stevens]

Nothing to dread Marc. Sekiro is a funny beast - my buddy who had ZERO Fromsoft XP played it and loved it. Your first trip through it will probably be harder than your first trip through any other From game.

Once it clicks though it's From's easiest game.

[ryu]

Thank you Bluepoint for fucking up so much I won't have a reason to blow money on a PS5 anytime soon

[Marc]

Thank you Bluepoint for fucking up so much I won't have a reason to blow money on a PS5 anytime soon

What did I miss....?

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Sekiro is by far the most beginner-friendly of From Software's more recent souls-like games. It is actually closer in many ways to something like a character action game like Devil May Cry or Bayonetta, styled to be like a Souls game in terms of how progression is handled and how you navigate the game world. Combat is very tight and precise, but slower paced, and each hit is more deliberate rather than encouraging mashing away on crowds, but it eschews having to worry about "builds", with RPG elements being largely minor by comparison, consisting of a few skill trees you eventually max out entirely, usually on NG+1. What changes on a first playthrough is more what skills you purchase before the others, as well as what prosthetic tools you obtain, with some being very, very powerful indeed when used correctly. The hardest part of learning the game is really learning what skills are worthwhile and which are lower priority.

Spoiler

Mikiri Counter is OP <3

[Blinge]

Ichimonji is fucking great. Wish I'd gotten it earlier on my first playthrough

[Blinge]

Demon's Souls redesigns blueerurerhghghghghh

Spoiler

oh boy.

[Sumez]

Some of the humans look really weird, but aside from that I don't really see a big problem with the redesigns.

[Blinge]

Yeah but you play the game once and forget about it so i can't expect you to have an appreciation

Fool's Idol is funny. they make her do an evil giggle as she descends now in the cutscene. what is subtlety?

Miners and Maneater are horrendous. Latria sky is stupid.
It's like they put DeS through the grinder of western cultural background and said 'now it's better'

If you don't agree with me YOUR DUM

[ryu]

I think it's horrible. Here's a more recent version of Blinge's picture:

https://www.tohya.net/files/share/shmup ... -shame.jpg

(and it's still missing Astraea)

[Marc]

Yeah, some of it isn't great, though there are a few that look OK-ish.

[Steamflogger Boss]

Honestly no reason to play the remake when the original is great.

Yeah but you play the game once and forget about it so i can't expect you to have an appreciation

Don't need the wink tbh, imagine only playing a Souls game once. Imagine never playing the DLC.

[drauch]

Been watching a little bit. Watched the Tower Knight fight last night and switched back and forth between vanilla and the remake. The OST has been changed a bit, which is unfortunate yet not drastic, but his sounds are really odd. Gone are the chunky, devastating smashes and explosive sounds, instead replaced with little pew pews and what sounds like Star Wars. It's really odd.

[Marc]

Honestly no reason to play the remake when the original is great.

Yeah but you play the game once and forget about it so i can't expect you to have an appreciation

Don't need the wink tbh, imagine only playing a Souls game once. Imagine never playing the DLC.

I've got the original disc here but never made much headway. If I remember, though the moment-to-moment play wasn't too bad, there were some LONG stretches between bonfires. Felt more like Bloodbourne to me, wherein a lot of levels were somewhat linear, but with a shortcut that would dump you at the halfway point once opened? Could be wrong, I only played BB once, and maybe five or so levels of DS.

I'm very unlikely to ever se up the noisy horrid monstrosity that is my original BC PS3 for this one title though, would be nice if the remake is at least accurate from a gameplay point, aesthetics aside.

[Steamflogger Boss]

Gonna try BL4, but not doing the DLC.

[Sumez]

Don't need the wink tbh, imagine only playing a Souls game once. Imagine never playing the DLC.

Imagine being opposed to other people playing "your" DLC because you don't want them to have an opinion on them.

Spoiler

[Steamflogger Boss]

Don't need the wink tbh, imagine only playing a Souls game once. Imagine never playing the DLC.

Imagine being opposed to other people playing "your" DLC because you don't want them to have an opinion on them.

Spoiler

Lol

[Blinge]

lol wut??

Anyway, finished DS2 scholar using sorcery only, all bosses.
(except used hexes on blue smelter)

- man the DLC fuuucking sucked using spells only. everything was so resistant to magic. The burnt Ivory royal rumble was like pulling teeth.

[Steamflogger Boss]

The O&S fight has to be one of my favorites in the entire series. It's so damn good.

[Marc]

So….. Sekiro.
Firstly, I will say that WOW, From finally delivered a game that looks as good as they play. The setting has really allowed them to run wild with colour, and it looks absolutely glorious. Stick pretty closely to 60fps on PSPro from what I played, though the thing sounds like a jet engine at certain points.

So…. No problem getting through the opening bit. Quite relaxed for a From game actually, enemies have a nice large parry window to get you into the new way of playing. All good up until General Kawadawa or whatever the hell his name is, then it introduces the sweeps and grapples. I get my arse kicked maybe a half-dozen times, the game gives me an item that seems to essentially say ‘due to sucking too much, we have just made the game harder for you’.

Finally cotton on to the fact that I should be concentrating more on the posture bar than his energy bar, and see him off pretty easily, then proceed to spend another hour not getting anywhere in the area immediately after him. Enemies here already seem to be behaving differently to what the game has been trying to teach me - even parrying a couple of hits then getting a few sequential hits of my own in barely seems to bother their poise, I’m getting sniped at from enemies I’ve barely even seen, and the whole thing has enraged me so much that I’ve deleted the save.

My overall impression of combat at the moment is that’s it’s a slightly more elaborate game of ’Rock Paper Scissors’, and that the whole thing is simply too much for my reflexes. Bloodborne was already a difficult one for me as someone that primarily turtled the Souls games, but at least I understood what was happening there. I’m convinced I’m missing something with the combat here in that even after parrying every hit by some enemies, then hitting back with my own, I’m still not breaking their poise?

Hmm I’d had a rough day yesterday so as soon as I got home, I hit the beers and put on Spelunky 2 to chill out (HA!), so I was a little buzzed by the time I fired this up.

Too hard and too long for me at this point though, I think. I’ll try again, because I initially thought that about Dark Souls, but that was 10 (damn!) years ago…. Then there’s Jedi: Fallen Order, still in its shrink-warap potentially offering a similar experience without the rage….

Link’s Awakening also came in the mail yesterday, think that might be more up my street these days.

[Blinge]

Nice man! Thanks for sharing.

So I think I know the area you mean. I think stealth around a bit more, grapple hook in behind the snipers and take them out first.
If you get spotted and several enemies are bearing down on you, remember the better part of valor.. gtfo there and come back when they're not aggro'd anymore. It doesn't take long.

The weakest bald dudes and gunners can be mowed down easily by just spamming R1 on them. Their posture breaks very easily.

I would say as a general rule, don't stand around waiting to parry people, because it's lame, boring and less effective. Instead hammer on their block a couple of times, and parry their counterattack, which will come fast.

The dragonrot isn't as bad as it seems.

(i'll try not to overload you with information, just offering advice for what i think is more important in each moment for ya)

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I’m convinced I’m missing something with the combat here in that even after parrying every hit by some enemies, then hitting back with my own, I’m still not breaking their poise?

It's not that complex fortunately once you get the hang of it. Slash at them a few times until they try to attack, parry the attack(s) until you get an opening, take a quick slash at them or two again, and repeat. Some enemies require more active running around (or other measures) to avoid attacks if their attacks can't be parried directly.

Attacking enemies with basic attacks when they're in an attack animation is usually ill-advised as most boss enemies will not reliably allow you to interrupt them with sword slash. As you whittle down their health, they will hit breakpoints where their posture will recover slower (same as you if you get hit) and eventually you'll get a posture break.

Some enemies that don't offer many parrying chances are more about dropping their HP to 0 to kill them that way, and a handful of enemies offer limited safe chances to attack them directly, but don't recover posture quickly, so it's about rapid parrying to posture break them. You'll quickly get a feel for each enemy though!

[Blinge]

I’m convinced I’m missing something with the combat here in that even after parrying every hit by some enemies, then hitting back with my own, I’m still not breaking their poise?

Sounds like you're just normal blocking and not getting the proper deflect. (game's term for parry)
Are you 100% certain it's a deflect? There's more sparks, and it's a higher pitched sound.

[Marc]

I'm sort of getting it. Still not 100% on the combat - as in I'll have a mook circling me and doing nothing, sometimes I can get a few hits in to start the fight off, and sometimes I'll get knocked straight out of my first hit, and I'm not sure how I'm supposed to read it. I started again, and that second miniboss battered me around the place, but the fight I won was over in quite literally seconds, but as of yet I don't feel like I'm gaining any sort of knowledge as it seems pretty arbitrary as to who will knock who out of a blow?
That said, I've stopped trying to play it like a Souls game. In the early stages at least, it's goddamn Tenchu! I'd completely forgotten about being utterly addicted to the first PS1 game, but circling the area with the grappling hook, jumping down to deliver a deathblow, then buggering off before anyone even knows you've been there brought it all right back. I'm cautiously optimistic. Feels odd the there to be so much bloody talking in a FROM game though

[Blinge]

seems pretty arbitrary as to who will knock who out of a blow?

The one whose hitbox connects to the other's hurtbox, I assume.
Unless they're a boss with hyper-armour on certain attacks.

There's a miniboss coming up soon that you'll wanna forget about Sekiro and play like it's dark souls...

[Stevens]

I'm sort of getting it. Still not 100% on the combat - as in I'll have a mook circling me and doing nothing, sometimes I can get a few hits in to start the fight off, and sometimes I'll get knocked straight out of my first hit, and I'm not sure how I'm supposed to read it. I started again, and that second miniboss battered me around the place, but the fight I won was over in quite literally seconds, but as of yet I don't feel like I'm gaining any sort of knowledge as it seems pretty arbitrary as to who will knock who out of a blow?
That said, I've stopped trying to play it like a Souls game. In the early stages at least, it's goddamn Tenchu! I'd completely forgotten about being utterly addicted to the first PS1 game, but circling the area with the grappling hook, jumping down to deliver a deathblow, then buggering off before anyone even knows you've been there brought it all right back. I'm cautiously optimistic. Feels odd the there to be so much bloody talking in a FROM game though

Keep an eye on the size of the deflect sparks. I believe a perfect deflect is a large spark and imperfect a small one.

What does that mean for you - if you're fighting a boss (or stronger mook) and they perfect deflect then your next move should be a parry. If they deflect imperfectly you can attack, but I wouldn't attack no more than twice, at least on a boss.

Also if it hasn't been mentioned - you should always be doing something. I've said that on the first play it is From's hardest game, but becomes its easiest. Once you start dictating the terms of the fight you become the boss. Boss waiting? Attack. Pay attention to the deflect and choose your next move accordingly. Perfect? You're deflecting. Imperfect? Take another swing.

You dictate the terms of the encounter. Practicing with Hanbei helps too.

[Stevens]

Ichimonji is fucking great. Wish I'd gotten it earlier on my first playthrough

Whirlwind is fucking godlike, my last playthrough it was all I used. Hits twice, it's quick and fucking free? My first few runs it was always about the shiny new toy. But whirlwind for cost vs. effectiveness I think is untouchable.

Ichi is super useful though - most notably

Spoiler

Genny/Ishin opening

I also love the Ashina Cross. Side step

Spoiler

Owl

and cut him a new asshole.

Marc what are you up to?

[Blinge]

Keep an eye on the size of the deflect sparks. I believe a perfect deflect is a large spark and imperfect a small one.

What does that mean for you - if you're fighting a boss (or stronger mook) and they perfect deflect then your next move should be a parry. If they deflect imperfectly you can attack, but I wouldn't attack no more than twice, at least on a boss.

Solid advice bro but the language is confusing. I feel like proper terms are necessary for communication.
(although deflect and parry could be interchangeable)

"imperfect deflect" is the culprit. Isn't this just a normal block?

Blocking has a low clunk, destroys your posture, sometimes won't stop you getting damaged.

Deflects are a high pitched clang, big bright sparks, and using them deals big posture damage to an enemy
-most of the time it opens them up for a counterattack, but not on all bosses.
- on the weak ones it's enough to break their posture instantly for the death-blow.

[Stevens]

Solid advice bro but the language is confusing.

Fair enough. I'm all for getting the message across.

It's been a minute, but yeah, if you block and get the small spark then it's just a block.

Enemy attacks YOU - Small spark: stay on defense/Big spark: Attack

YOU attack enemy - Small spark: Attack again/Big spark: stay on defense