ASDR wrote:I'm confused, which OSSC revision did not have AV3 audio input? Did the pre-HDMI boards not have that? I thought they were missing the AV2 audio input.
Okay, I'm just blind and literally did not know there was a second 3.5mm jack next to the HDMI output on 1.6 boards for AV3 audio in.
To be fair the wiki makes zero mention of AV3 having an audio input at all, and I still don't see the setting Fudoh mentioned, unless that's for DVI boards. AV3 audio was only mentioned in VGPF's manual.
sorry, scratch that. Mixed up AV2 and AV3 and then as well was mislead by the wiki entry. For VGA input you're - of course - all set by using the dedicated audio input on the right next to the HDMI port.
Greg2600 wrote:500!!!!!!!!!!! Come on, a 300% increase for a "Pro" model of anything is vein popping. I wanted a nice case, plus the expansion board for composite/S-video inputs, and didn't expect to have to spend anywhere near that. I could get the current OSSC and a RetroTink for half that. What in the holy Hell components are being put in this?
It's a totally different spec doing totally different things with a frame buffer. Neither of the devices you note can do many of the things that this design is meant to do. If you want a device that does what the OSSC or Retrotink does for less, then buy an OSSC or Retrotrink. Hardly rocket science.
For starters Pro has a $100 FPGA whereas original OSSC has $10 one and Retrotink no FPGA at all. A budget alternative is to buy subvented DE10-Nano board and build an add-on PCB with the same video ADC (pictured below) for ~$200 total. No case, no warranty, some performance and feature limitations but otherwise does the job.
Do we need the oled-display and the rc to control the addon-board? is the osd active?
jotheripper wrote:Do we need the oled-display and the rc to control the addon-board? is the osd active?
They are not absolutely required, but removing them cripples usability. Picture an original OSSC without character display and IR control and you understand what I mean. The IR diode cost is next to nothing and it's possible to replace the $30 character OLED with something cheaper if needed (which was already done for the cost estimate).
jotheripper wrote:Do we need the oled-display and the rc to control the addon-board? is the osd active?
They are not absolutely required, but removing them cripples usability. Picture an original OSSC without character display and IR control and you understand what I mean. The IR diode cost is next to nothing and it's possible to replace the $30 character OLED with something cheaper if needed (which was already done for the cost estimate).
thanks for for your answer. i asked you because the oled display are out of stock everywhere. do you have some compatible alternatives for 1.3 boards?
thchardcore wrote:I think that price range is spot on. After all, is anyone expecting Marqs to work for free?
I don't think anyone was pushing for that. One or two people expressed some sticker shock, but the general sentiment was that it's fair and some people have said they won't be able to afford it.
jotheripper wrote:Do we need the oled-display and the rc to control the addon-board? is the osd active?
They are not absolutely required, but removing them cripples usability. Picture an original OSSC without character display and IR control and you understand what I mean. The IR diode cost is next to nothing and it's possible to replace the $30 character OLED with something cheaper if needed (which was already done for the cost estimate).
thanks for for your answer. i asked you because the oled display are out of stock everywhere. do you have some compatible alternatives for 1.3 boards?
NHD-0216CW-AG3 is a direct replacement which currently has some stock in Digikey. NHD-0216AW-IB3 should be also compatible but needs some wiring due to different header.
marqs wrote:NHD-0216CW-AG3 is a direct replacement which currently has some stock in Digikey. NHD-0216AW-IB3 should be also compatible but needs some wiring due to different header.
I don't see why you should have to justify the parts stock for a device that isn't ready for production yet!
jotheripper wrote:Do we need the oled-display and the rc to control the addon-board? is the osd active?
They are not absolutely required, but removing them cripples usability. Picture an original OSSC without character display and IR control and you understand what I mean. The IR diode cost is next to nothing and it's possible to replace the $30 character OLED with something cheaper if needed (which was already done for the cost estimate).
I totally agree the IR + remote is necessary. I'm less clear on what the 20x2 OLED display offers that the OSD can't do but better. Except of course if you manage to get yourself into a video mode that's not supported. But just dedicate a key on the remote to "one-touch switch to safe video mode", such as 720p (user selectable, preferably).
jotheripper wrote:Do we need the oled-display and the rc to control the addon-board? is the osd active?
They are not absolutely required, but removing them cripples usability. Picture an original OSSC without character display and IR control and you understand what I mean. The IR diode cost is next to nothing and it's possible to replace the $30 character OLED with something cheaper if needed (which was already done for the cost estimate).
I totally agree the IR + remote is necessary. I'm less clear on what the 20x2 OLED display offers that the OSD can't do but better. Except of course if you manage to get yourself into a video mode that's not supported. But just dedicate a key on the remote to "one-touch switch to safe video mode", such as 720p (user selectable, preferably).
but i dont know if osd is active now in the last fw.
marqs wrote:NHD-0216CW-AG3 is a direct replacement which currently has some stock in Digikey. NHD-0216AW-IB3 should be also compatible but needs some wiring due to different header.
I don't see why you should have to justify the parts stock for a device that isn't ready for production yet!
I think people are mixing 2 things here. The recent discussion on alternative parts and pricing was related to DIY add-on board for FPGA dev boards, not ossc pro itself. Maybe there should be a dedicated thread for that - let's see how much interest it will generate.
jotheripper wrote:but i dont know if osd is active now in the last fw.
xeos wrote:I'm less clear on what the 20x2 OLED display offers that the OSD can't do but better. Except of course if you manage to get yourself into a video mode that's not supported. But just dedicate a key on the remote to "one-touch switch to safe video mode", such as 720p (user selectable, preferably).
While I think a safe-mode button would be useful in certain situations, I think an on-unit display still has applicability for those who want to get deep into the settings, trying to get their OSSC Pro to work with their display in a non-framerate-converting processing mode, like they might with a regular OSSC.
nmalinoski wrote:While I think a safe-mode button would be useful in certain situations, I think an on-unit display still has applicability for those who want to get deep into the settings, trying to get their OSSC Pro to work with their display in a non-framerate-converting processing mode, like they might with a regular OSSC.
I absolutely despise it when I buy a piece of AV equipment (that I don't know how to use, if it works, what it does yet) and there's no visual feedback. Whenever my system goes awry, I really lean on the visual display of the OSSC to tell me my input signal specs. It's a godsend!
altgraph wrote:Is there an approximate timeframe for its release yet?
Some time next year, hopefully on the first half. The prototype round already got delayed by 1-2 months due to last minute changes (such as the expansion pinout update mentioned above) and lead time of selected DRAM chip, and there are still various items to resolve before release (not just technical ones). On the price side we've now received some initial quotes which indicate the sale price could settle somewhere on $350-550 range. The final number largely depends on which kind of case is designed/customized and how many units are manufactured at once.
Hey marqs, please don't stress yourself. It's absolutely okay if there are delays so don't worry about them. The product is done when it's done. Even when there are further delays nobody should blame you. Good things take it's time and I am sure it's much better to have a polished but delayed product then a rushed product. I am also happy with the price range. If people want something cheaper they can look for the standard OSSC model. I would prefer a higher price for better components and materials for example for the case.
dc_coder_84 wrote:I would prefer a higher price for better components and materials for example for the case.
whereas I couldn't care less about the case. Should there end up being two SKUs (DIY addon to the nano, and full self contained box) then the obvious choice is to go "deluxe" on the self contained and cheap out on the DIY addon.
dc_coder_84 wrote:I would prefer a higher price for better components and materials for example for the case.
whereas I couldn't care less about the case. Should there end up being two SKUs (DIY addon to the nano, and full self contained box) then the obvious choice is to go "deluxe" on the self contained and cheap out on the DIY addon.
I totally see your point of view on this, I just sense that marqs is trying to move to a full Frameister type replacement, and away from a hobbiest project.
I hope there is a less expensive option for those who want to save some money, but regardless people are ready for this device and will buy it! Make a BUNCH for the first push marqs, bring the price down and have plenty to go around!
Sorry if this has already been discussed, but is there a reason why the unit doesn't have at least one USB port? If the community starts porting FPGA emulation cores it seems having a USB port would make it real easy to hook up a large number of controllers and controller adapters. USB mass storage would also be very handy for accessing lots of ISOs for the existing CD-console cores. Also, maybe a cheap USB ethernet or Wifi adapter could be used to make the OSSC network accessible. And probably somebody will come up with more good uses for a USB port down the road.
Unrelated, but a large production run of the 1st batch seems like a bad idea. With a project this complex it seems really unlikely that everything works on the first revision, no matter how skilled and diligent the people involved are. Would probably make more sense to make a higher priced small batch for the early adopters and then keep making larger batches once revision 2 is ready and demand is proven. Just my 2c.
As for the case, I demand wooden end cheeks and an ivory topped input selection rotary encoder.
ASDR wrote:Sorry if this has already been discussed, but is there a reason why the unit doesn't have at least one USB port? If the community starts porting FPGA emulation cores it seems having a USB port would make it real easy to hook up a large number of controllers and controller adapters. USB mass storage would also be very handy for accessing lots of ISOs for the existing CD-console cores. Also, maybe a cheap USB ethernet or Wifi adapter could be used to make the OSSC network accessible. And probably somebody will come up with more good uses for a USB port down the road.
Unrelated, but a large production run of the 1st batch seems like a bad idea. With a project this complex it seems really unlikely that everything works on the first revision, no matter how skilled and diligent the people involved are. Would probably make more sense to make a higher priced small batch for the early adopters and then keep making larger batches once revision 2 is ready and demand is proven. Just my 2c.
As for the case, I demand wooden end cheeks and an ivory topped input selection rotary encoder.
Good idea for the USB and uses!
As for the large initial order. I think the prototype or test PCB should be a small run to work out major issues, but the order for the case should be the large one, after all I think injection molding price comes down the more you order.
I think the initial early adoptor/test units can definitely be bare bones to save costs and to negate the need to retool the mold if major reworks with PCB/parts placement is needed.
XtraSmiley wrote:
As for the large initial order. I think the prototype or test PCB should be a small run to work out major issues, but the order for the case should be the large one, after all I think injection molding price comes down the more you order.
But the cases will have to be changed once they realize there should've been a USB port on it Spoiler
and build-in composite & S-Video for rev 2, fingers crossed
ASDR wrote:Sorry if this has already been discussed, but is there a reason why the unit doesn't have at least one USB port? If the community starts porting FPGA emulation cores it seems having a USB port would make it real easy to hook up a large number of controllers and controller adapters. USB mass storage would also be very handy for accessing lots of ISOs for the existing CD-console cores. Also, maybe a cheap USB ethernet or Wifi adapter could be used to make the OSSC network accessible. And probably somebody will come up with more good uses for a USB port down the road.
High-speed USB requires transceivers or a number of new IOs (for external USB controller IC), and I don't think USB alone justifies selecting a bigger and more expensive FPGA. There is already relatively high-speed mass storage option via SD card, and it's possible to add controller ports (including USB ones) on an expansion card.
marqs wrote:High-speed USB requires transceivers or a number of new IOs (for external USB controller IC), and I don't think USB alone justifies selecting a bigger and more expensive FPGA. There is already relatively high-speed mass storage option via SD card, and it's possible to add controller ports (including USB ones) on an expansion card.
what about a single low-speed usb port for a controller? (1.1 or 2 would be fine). I agree it's not worth a significant cost increase but requiring an expansion can't be as cheap as building it in?
marqs wrote:it's possible to add controller ports (including USB ones) on an expansion card.
Just out of curiosity, if it's possible to add a USB expansion card with the same FPGA used, what's preventing the existing FPGA from supporting USB as is?
If I understood marqs correctly, adding a USB port to the standard design would take up additional IO pins while the pins of the 2x20 pin GPIO connector are already accounted for.
marqs wrote:High-speed USB requires transceivers or a number of new IOs (for external USB controller IC), and I don't think USB alone justifies selecting a bigger and more expensive FPGA. There is already relatively high-speed mass storage option via SD card, and it's possible to add controller ports (including USB ones) on an expansion card.
Ah, OK, out of 'pins', to put it in simple terms?
xeos wrote:
what about a single low-speed usb port for a controller? (1.1 or 2 would be fine). I agree it's not worth a significant cost increase but requiring an expansion can't be as cheap as building it in?
Good point. USB 1.1 would be enough for all use cases I could think of. Certainly controllers, but even for reading ISOs. Most of these consoles had like dual-speed CD-ROMs (300KB/s?), so even 10Mbit/s USB 1.1 would be fine. And slow TBase10 Ethernet would be enough for network control. Maybe a low-speed USB port could be added without requiring any expensive BOM changes?
maxtherabbit wrote:It's a video scaler not an fpga console ffs
SuperSpongo wrote:If I understood marqs correctly, adding a USB port to the standard design would take up additional IO pins while the pins of the 2x20 pin GPIO connector are already accounted for.
Ok. So it's technically "extra" IO, but the extra is built in for expansion in general and the USB would kill that. Makes sense, thanks for the explanation. Again, I wasn't pushing for it, I just wanted to understand.
maxtherabbit wrote:It's a video scaler not an fpga console ffs. You want a controller get a damn mister
I didn't want to be the first to say it. The requests are getting way out of control rn. marqs said he wasn't going to implement it, he's not going to implement it. case closed.
Hello Marqs, just a little last minute feature request. Can you add a mode that will make it rub my temples when I have a headache? Just thinking it would be really cool, hope it isn't too much work!
