Prelude to the Apocalypse

[orange808]

Uh... Sanders was not running for the presidency in 1992.

lmao Nice try. Do you really think I'll bite?

The word "Sanders" appears twice on that page at the very bottom in what is essentially a small footnote section linking to a separate page examining the 2016 election. I can safely assume you have not clicked on the link or read it.

That doesn't make my statement any less true. lmao

???

I'm not sure why you're assuming I'm a centrist, or what this has to do with the 1992 presidential election. Your triple posting instead of using the edit button has me equally confused.

If you're this confused, why chime in? You're clearly confused.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

You're clearly confused.

Well, yes. I do get a bit confused when people are incoherent.

[orange808]

And, how does a Chinese online store build a proper logistics and supply chain on my soil to compete with domestic companies if I won't sell them real estate and they pay taxes at the border?

They don't.

That's not going to happen unless I allow it.

[orange808]

You're clearly confused.

Well, yes. I do get a bit confused when people are incoherent.

lmao

You just don't like facts that contradict your talking points. Run along, now.

[BryanM]

Back in high school, I used to use this thing as a fortune telling device. All of my friends died on the way but I smoothly made it all the way to the utopian paradise of.... Oregon, 1848. My favorite thing was when one of my buddies was obsessed with picking up snakes for some reason - alas, his love of lizards would be his undoing on the third time.

I even rested and everything, I, I wasn't rushing to beat the winter or anything.

For some reason that time I took the trail with Jesus, Moses, Buddha and Muhammad... they fared far better fates.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Uh, "talking points"? I linked to a highly-credentialed mathematician specializing in election science who looked at whether or not Ross Perot was a spoiler candidate in the 1992 election as is often claimed.

I mean if you want talking points, here's your other perplexing comment to me:

Was Perot right or wrong about the future of the North American Free Trade Agreement? I already posted the data. There's only one possible true answer. Can you say it?

I'm not sure why you'd direct this at me given a) we were not previously discussing Perot or NAFTA, b) I know nothing about Ross Perot's politics, and c) I'm not an economist. The unnecessarily hostile/condescending tone ("Can you say it?") is the extra weird icing on your crazy cake.

[orange808]

1992 isn't the thread topic--and it came up while discussing current affairs. Your post wasn't OP.

You're clearly confused.

[orange808]

...I'm not an economist... The unnecessarily hostile/condescending tone...

Yes. Condescending.

Like linking your own source (that I read and acknowledge is probably true) and ignoring my own (credible) source with that "I'm not an economist" dodge. If your doctor says you have cancer and someone asks how you are, do you reply, "I don't know, I'm not a doctor?" lmao

Yes. You're a saint. Nice try.

I never disagreed with your source or dodged it. It's been very entertaining watching you bend yourself into pretzels when I pointed out parallels to Sanders, tho.

You aren't fooling a soul.

[trap15]

Please don't stop posting crazy, it's so delicious to read.

[Mischief Maker]

Roo, don't try to reach a conclusion with orange808.

They'll take you down a never-ending whirlwind of shifting topics, accusing you the whole time of moving the goalposts yourself.

Please don't stop posting crazy, it's so delicious to read.

Dangit! Beat me to it.

[orange808]

Please don't stop posting crazy, it's so delicious to read.

Preteding Clinton made much of a difference in overall policy making is where crazy rubber meets the road, anyhow. 1992 doesn't matter.

I think the issue is I'm willing/able to talk about the big picture and all the elements that got us here.

Furthermore, if I polled the audience, you are mostly libertarians and centrists. You think that your general (yet selective) support for social justice makes you a lefty. That's just culture wars window dressing.

Why do I say selective? Do you have a quota for genders when you hand out "merit/skill based" visas to foreign countries? No. You don't. The education in those nations reaches mostly men by design. Your complacent consent is consent (nevertheless). So, it's a sexist policy. You could change it, but that would upset the donor class.

It's so easy to jump to a new tangent because everything is built to pay rentiers with a cheap "social justice" facade.

[orange808]

Roo, don't try to reach a conclusion with orange808.

They'll take you down a never-ending whirlwind of shifting topics, accusing you the whole time of moving the goalposts yourself.

Please don't stop posting crazy, it's so delicious to read.

Dangit! Beat me to it.

When everything is right wing, it's difficult to ever reach a conclusion. Also, I fail to see why discussing 1992 in a vacuum makes sense in this thread. If current events are off limts, start a new thread.

[Steamflogger Boss]

So apparently people still believe in trickle down economics. Billionaires got some damn good brain worms ngl.

[Sengoku Strider]

Basically, you responded with a series of nonsense scare attacks.

I say this constructively: I think you might not be great at reading tone. Take a step back when the impulse to lash-back hits, and consider what aims the poster would have had in using the points they did.

If you go back, I started off by making the case that capitalism's contradictions are about to unavoidably catch up with it, and force a reckoning. There wasn't an argument for laissez-faire economics.

[FinalBaton]

Yeah, it's just wrestling.

It 100% is rasslin'

[BareKnuckleRoo]

https://twitter.com/culturevg/status/13 ... 7469076483



I mean we knew icycalm was an idiot, but hey, it's additional confirmation.

[Steamflogger Boss]

Fuckin' perfect.

[BulletMagnet]

One final word to fellow US voters: if you're intimidated or outright disenfranchised at the polls, keep a hotline like this one handy. I can hope against hope that most folks are able to cast their ballots without issue, but considering how long this exact same shit has been happening - and how the incumbent is unapologetically gunning to have any remotely close race sent to the courts he's been very openly prepping for just such a situation - unfortunately, as they say, this is where we are.

[Mischief Maker]

One final word to fellow US voters: if you're intimidated or outright disenfranchised at the polls, keep a hotline like this one handy. I can hope against hope that most folks are able to cast their ballots without issue, but considering how long this exact same shit has been happening - and how the incumbent is unapologetically gunning to have any remotely close race sent to the courts he's been very openly prepping for just such a situation - unfortunately, as they say, this is where we are.

In light of that shit, this video is reassuring!

[FinalBaton]

Yes go vote all our US shmups resident! whichever party you plan on supporting or whichever beliefs you have, go vote.

And don't get intimidated by the thought of ''I don't want my X-leaning workplace mates know that I'm voting for Y''.

[GaijinPunch]

One final word to fellow US voters: if you're intimidated or outright disenfranchised at the polls, keep a hotline like this one handy. I can hope against hope that most folks are able to cast their ballots without issue, but considering how long this exact same shit has been happening - and how the incumbent is unapologetically gunning to have any remotely close race sent to the courts he's been very openly prepping for just such a situation - unfortunately, as they say, this is where we are.

In light of that shit, this video is reassuring!

Fort Worth... basically my hometown. Is it a shocker I went 6000 miles away first chance?

[CIT]

Looks like it’s gonna come down to Michigan and either way will end up in the courts...

[Mischief Maker]

Republican David Andahl, who died from COVID-19 in October, has been elected to the North Dakota House of Representatives

Of course.

[Mischief Maker]

Biden currently has a 20K lead in Wisconsin. Jill Stein got 31K here in 2016. Do you now understand why I've been freaking out so much about the "miniscule" sliver of the vote that protest-voting represents?

Polls-be-damned, I always knew Biden was a weak candidate.

On the upside, all the Justice Dems held firm.

[BryanM]

Ye, the polls are a scanner roughly. They can only capture an estimate of what people say they're going to do, and only among those who'll take the time to answer a poll. As you know, it's much easier to say you'll do something than actually do it. And I can't imagine many young people who'd answer polls without compensation, which has its own bias. Like that MSDNC twitter joke: "Biden is the happening candidate among 20 year olds who dress like 70 year olds."

Honestly the only reason I thought it was close to an even coin flip this time was the ongoing plague.

Jill Stein got 31K here in 2016

And Gary Johnson got 107,000 votes. Are his voters not supposed to vote for the republican? Aren't you happy you have a +70k advantage on this front? Isn't this well as dry as it's gonna get, and you're licking the dirt on the bottom of the thing?

There's massively more Obama voters who flipped that year or sat it out than Jill Stein voters. Maybe stab a voodoo doll of them for a change of pace.

(Remember that guy in this thread who blamed libertarians for not voting for Hillary roflol..)

[Mischief Maker]

I've been stabbing a voodoo doll of the tactic of protest voting, and the influencers who peddle it.

As I keep saying, I gave it the ol' college try in 2000 for Ralph Nader and I want young voters not to repeat my own mistake.

[chempop]

I stayed up to hear Trump's 'victory speech' which caused my bloodpressure to skyrocket, he usually doesn't get under my skin but there was something different about it when he's talking with such an certainty about overriding the process.

He basically said in a single breath they need to keep counting all the votes in Arizona, but will STOP the counting in WI, ME, and PA. If Biden wins WI and MI which is looks like he will, he doesn't need PA.

Expect some insane destabilizing efforts from Trump's last couple months in office.

[orange808]

lmao

What if you accepted reality?

This was a good turnout and the result reflects the real preference of the American electorate. Every time there is another confirmation of what this is, everyone has some reason why someone cheated or a fairy tale about millions of voters that were going to show up.

I think fivethirtyeight has voter turnout at ~65%. You won't get much more than that. You should also note this: Turnout increased this time and the results barely moved.

Face it. This vote represents what people chose. (Given crap choices in this duopoly). This is America. Still feeling all warm and fuzzy about boomers? Check the final results when we get them broke out across age groups.

Maybe it's high time you started judging people for what they are. Most of them are awful. I still care about them, but I don't want to have a beer with them. They're awful. You can't be a good person and vote for that orange clown.

Trump appears to have lost voters among white men and made gains elsewhere. You gotta come to terms with that. Grams is an asshole.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I've been stabbing a voodoo doll of the tactic of protest voting, and the influencers who peddle it.

Yeah, we don't record non-voting, ballot rejections, or anything else in a meaningful way. Nobody pays attention to protest voting. If we had an election system such as approval voting that actually gave us better, more meaningful data, it'd better reflect everyone's opinions on the candidates and hopefully then the major parties would see just how little people actually like them.

Reminds me of this thread:

https://twitter.com/inthehands/status/1 ... 4661493761

Mathematicians are screaming from the high hills about what a complete waste protest voting is (and how bad plurality voting is) and yet there's still no national outcry. It's a crying shame, and suggests that more should be done to educate the populace as a whole.

The Democratic party should see that the rosy American ideal of democracy is fundamentally in jeopardy with the current election system and it's only a matter of time before yet another popular authoritarian crackpot is put up for election and manages to get elected, whether to some level of presidency or another level of government, due to the flaws in plurality voting. And yet they don't have the guts as a party to campaign on a platform of election reform.

Biden will likely win at least in part because of estimates that 2/3 of the mail in ballots yet to be counted are from Democratic voters (i.e. people who are taking COVID-19 seriously and not wanting to physically go to the polls).

[orange808]

The shape of the electorate has very little to do with a few protest votes. You're chasing your tail.

Never mind the issues, right? How and why are we here? Well, that would require introspection, right? That's hard.

Let's complain about the inevitable protest votes! Maybe it's time to accept reality, live in it, and think about winning elections in this real world--versus imagining a fake universe where every protest vote or nonvoter is a disenfranchised or stupid person that agrees with you.

65% is the ceiling and there will always be protest votes.