Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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Vanguard
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Vanguard »

BIL wrote:TBH it's partially the picture of larcenous shotgun mayhem (complete with exculpatory mens rea mechanic!) that perked me up. :mrgreen: I got a weakness for black-humoured carnage ala Lynch/Coens. Image Image
Armed robbery shenanigans are one of Spelunky's highlights for sure. Although Spelunky 2 is the only one with exculpatory mechanics worth mentioning. In Spelunky 1 you're guilty even after being proven innocent. 95% of the time you really did commit the crimes you're accused of, but every once in a while you'll get blamed when someone steps on a landmine on the opposite side of the map. Personally I think being framed is just part of the fun.

I mentioned it earlier, but easily the worst thing about these games is that you get absurdly long hitstun times with a tiny, near-negligible bit of mercy invincibility. Basically every attack does 1d20 damage in a game where you have 4 hit points. Only way to guarantee survival is to not get hit in the first place. The author seems to like funny chain reaction deaths, which is fine, but leaving you stunned and vulnerable for 3 seconds is a lame way to achieve that.
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BIL
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Vanguard wrote:95% of the time you really did commit the crimes you're accused of, but every once in a while you'll get blamed when someone steps on a landmine on the opposite side of the map. Personally I think being framed is just part of the fun.
Yeah I was gonna say, that sounds hilarious too. :lol:

Cleared Blaster Master Zero II's DLC characters this week. I never expect much from extra Search Action characters, SOTN's amusing but decidedly low-effort Richter mode having cast a long shadow on the subgenre (great they gave him his own game in Circle of the Moon Image). Zero II's pair are well above the Richter average, sharing an ethos comfortably distinct from Jason's: they're stronger on foot than in their tanks, which are mostly relegated to mobility. Some pretty amusing Little v Large boss battles ensue.

That that you lousy fuckin crab!
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Sock The Brain
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They're also completely immune to fall damage, an instant source of novelty for any longtime Metafighter.

Fall damage?
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Wazzat?
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First up is the unfortunately-named Copen, from Luminous Avenger IX.

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Copen has a Rockman X-style airdash, which not only ricochets off walls for unlimited vertical maneuverability, but also doubles as a Taromaru-style lockon. Ram an enemy, and Copen's feeble laser becomes a hellish raystorm. His subweapons will clamp on too, pounding the target to dust. The drawback is, outside of subweapon splash, you're limited to one target at a time - but this is easily offset by Copen's extreme mobility.

Bouncy bouncy!
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He's a fun character, sadly compromised by a balance issue. Copen's bullets, which can be reloaded at any time, either manually or by ricocheting off a wall, are not only his airdash ammo - they're also body armour. Get hit and you lose a couple, while your lifebar remains unscathed. Ostensibly, this is to punish sloppy play by cutting off his advanced mobility and attacks. Problem is, you can regain bullets infinitely faster than you lose them. Provided you mash reload, you can tank straight through even the most massive boss attacks. Stand on the cables that instakill the other characters, their tanks, and Copen's own tank, and mash reload - no problemo!

Its only lock n' roll but I rike it ♫
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It's a shame - remove the body armour, and he'd be one of the most enjoyable "superhero" characters I've seen. I certainly enjoyed the playthrough - there is incredible agility and violence in his moveset, even moreso given his tiny stature. Reminded me of Bangaioh's diminunitive pyrotechnics. Cool character, just don't expect any sense of danger. I could see him being an excellent speedrun game, with his blistering pace and moderately technical inputs.

Next is Empress, from Dragon Marked For Death.

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She's almost as overwhelming as Copen, even more screen-judderingly violent, and free of his balance flaw. You can smash foes beneath her Birkinesque Dragon Arm, or torch them with its monstrous flamethrower - but you'll die fast if you deploy these startup-heavy beasts without good tactical sense. You'll also want to jumpstart her meter with the ultra-smooth triple slash, which chains into an instant Dragon Arm for authoritative slayings. Her Quickdraw and Spear counters work similarly to Jason's, with the added bonuses of not only tearing straight through the target, but in the latter's case, being infinitely chainable.

No respect AT ALL. :shock: Can't counter-backstab when your hair's on fire, Gonbei-kun. ;[
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I would've liked a shield, to facilitate aggressive toe-to-toe swordplay, but the strafe ability is possibly even better. All this adds up to a winningly hard-hitting yet balanced character, by far the better of the pair.

In classic Richter fashion, there's no storyline for these characters - a trivial omission, as ever. Recommended, with the obvious caveat for Copen. I'm interested in trying out both characters' source games now. Just as planned mirite. Image

There's also a third DLC gametype, the very different "Kanna Raising Simulator." Kanna is a cheerful rival tank pilot with a plant pot for a head, a skintight jumpsuit, and a massive pair of tits. I don't quite understand. But Yacopu is her co-pilot, so she is good people imo. Mode seems to play like a cross between the game's topdown dungeons and an oldschool cursor shooter. The idea is to clear rooms of targets under timed pressure, to unlock more artwork of the various characters. Seems fun enough!
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Vanguard »

New shopkeeper tech for Spelunky 2: stand near one and throw a rope to stun him. You'll have a moment to grab his gun and make a run for it. Move all the autopickup items you want to the front of the shop so you can grab them on the way out, and if there's an item you want to wear carry it and it'll auto-equip when you throw the rope. If you don't kill the shopkeeper then his friends should give up their pursuit after a stage or two. It doesn't work as well on shopkeepers who have back rooms because they drop keys and it's really easy to pick that up instead of the shotgun. I also tried it in Spelunky 1 but it doesn't work there.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

Blastermasterzero games set to ship out from LRG in Q3 2020, so with some luck they'll do it some time next year, and I might have them before 2022. Fingers crossed.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

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Revisiting Zero 1 really crystalises where it loses out to not only the always-replayable FC game, but the vastly meatier Z2.

1) Playfield. The FC's 4:3 aspect keeps you in closer contact with enemies. Not in a cheesy, screen-riding way - they've merely got a decent chance to engage, rather than being annihilated from across the 16:9 expanse. Z2 fills out nicely - not only are its enemies individually nastier and more deviously placed, its discrete stages are consistently unruly.

2) Resources. The FC's random drop-fuellled hover and subweapons aren't fun - in fact, I think the former was an outright mistake. Nevertheless, they maintain tension and discipline as you battle through the labyrinth. OTOH, Zero 2's regenerating meter works great, with its trickier stages and enemies demanding aggressive EX use. Plus, its base regeneration is dog-slow, encouraging the wonderfully visceral "shock absorber" recharge.

3) Topdown dungeons. They suck in both FC and Z1, but the former lets you figure out where the Area boss is and ignore the rest. I can't face the thought of redoing all of Z1's right now. The FC's bosses are pretty dangerous, too, where Z1's will die before you know they're dead.

4) Much stronger soundtrack on FC - classically punchy, tonally rich Kodaka & co. Lots of its best tracks are either remixed into beige by Z1, or AWOL altogether.

While Z1's not a bad game by any means, it's in a rough spot between FC's simplicity and Z2's content. If you only play one Zero, make sure it's Z2. If you're a completist, enjoy Z1's mechanics, and look forward to seeing them in a far stronger game with Z2. Image
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Jeneki »

Ben Bero Beh (Taito 1984) got released on the Japan PS4/Switch store. Seems to be some kind of firefighter superhero game?

It's all fun and games until a random Elevator Action baddie shows up:
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(Not a great game but I found this funny)
Typos caused by cat on keyboard.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

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Been enjoying BBB - it was actually reminding me of not only a single-screen Elevator Action, but also Namco's Baraduke, with its fucked-up monsters. :shock: :mrgreen:

Prehistoric Sunsoft single-screener Arabian's out today - from a quick spin in MAME, I think I'll be picking it up. Single-screen collect 'em up with a twist. Starkly unlike most games of this vintage, your boy Ahab the A-rab requires no powerups to defend himself, just hit the button and he'll kick the shit out of those birds and moles - even while clambering along vines! Pretty progressive-feeling for '83.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

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I love seeing older Sunsoft titles in the arcade archives. I'm glad Kangaroo made it. I grew up playing that game and the ports on Atari 2600 and Atari 5200. It's interesting seeing the cries for "mom" kept in Japanese with the AA version.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Jeneki »

BIL wrote:just hit the button and he'll kick the shit out of those birds and moles
Taking a look and holy crap you aren't kidding. This dude kicks birds into the next dimension.

As a side note, the enemies in this game are disturbingly cute.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BrianC »

BIL wrote: Prehistoric Sunsoft single-screener Arabian's out today - from a quick spin in MAME, I think I'll be picking it up. Single-screen collect 'em up with a twist. Starkly unlike most games of this vintage, your boy Ahab the A-rab requires no powerups to defend himself, just hit the button and he'll kick the shit out of those birds and moles - even while clambering along vines! Pretty progressive-feeling for '83.
Come to think of it, Kangaroo is also progressive. Female MC, and she also pulverizes enemies without power ups.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

Jeneki wrote:Ben Bero Beh (Taito 1984) got released on the Japan PS4/Switch store. Seems to be some kind of firefighter superhero game?
Whoa nice, I've always wanted to try that game out. Why is it only on the Japanese stores? :|
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Marc »

Sumez wrote:
Jeneki wrote:Ben Bero Beh (Taito 1984) got released on the Japan PS4/Switch store. Seems to be some kind of firefighter superhero game?
Whoa nice, I've always wanted to try that game out. Why is it only on the Japanese stores? :|
It's defo on the Switch UK store - unfortunately, I picked it up a few days ago.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

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I like that Hamster's been making more of an effort with their thumbnails lately. WTF is that face in the bottom-left. :lol:

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Purest most volcanic pixel RAEG FAEC I've seen since Alien Syndrome (FC)'s KING CORE (aww yeeuh, perfect Sunsoft segue Image)

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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

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Got the second ending in Spelunky 2.
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This is tough! Especially since there's little in the way of practice options. Can't credit feed or anything like that.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

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Luminous Avenger iX / White Steel of X seems cool. Too early to judge stage/enemy design, but the opener is good fun, and its engine is superb: Rockman Zero's ultra-smooth handling, with Alien Soldier's blazing body-ram and Taromaru's crafty lockon.

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Feels like a solid score/time attack game, at the least. Your first boss kill augments the airdash with a bone-crushing tackle, and once I tried it holy fuck my afternoon was toast. :shock: Image
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

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Vanguard wrote:Got the second ending in Spelunky 2.
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This is tough! Especially since there's little in the way of practice options. Can't credit feed or anything like that.
Nice!
I'm still failing miserably in the second world, but I'm playing in fits and starts, because this one riles me up waaaay more than the first one ever did.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

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Sumez wrote:To be honest it's really weird a Castlevania game was even made for the PC Engine. Konami did some great ports for that system, but did they even make any other original games there?

The X68k is more of a mystery to me, never delved into it - I just know it has a lot of ports, and the Castlevania game is the only original game on the system I even know of. :)
I can think of a couple other games where x68000 was the original version (Mad Stalker, Granada "X", and Thunder Force come to mind), but none from Konami other than Castlevania. Crazy how Mad Stalker's MD version finally got finished after all this time, though it's on Columbus Circle cart (bought it anyway since I heard good things about the game itself).
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

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If you count doujin games, Chourensha 68k and Super Star Shooter are X68K original.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Bassa-Bassa »

BIL wrote:Luminous Avenger iX / White Steel of X seems cool. Too early to judge stage/enemy design, but the opener is good fun, and its engine is superb: Rockman Zero's ultra-smooth handling, with Alien Soldier's blazing body-ram and Taromaru's crafty lockon.

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Feels like a solid score/time attack game, at the least. Your first boss kill augments the airdash with a bone-crushing tackle, and once I tried it holy fuck my afternoon was toast. :shock: Image
Are you adding the scanlines on the Inti games when capturing or is it a game feature?
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BIL
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

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The former. I always disable image filters in any games that offer them (the Intis on this page don't, AFAIK). Paranoia WRT input lag :wink:
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Bassa-Bassa »

Yeah, you never know. But aren't actually all the graphics in Inti's games filtered without the the option to get them raw scaled (despite lacking a scanlines option, surprisingly)? At least, all except the Blaster Masters/8 bitters?
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

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I tried the SNK collection on the Switch again. I'm under the impression that the analog stick bug may have been introduced in the later ports. I was able to play through SAR without the movement locking up. However, the collection is still very buggy. In both the PC and Switch versions, SAR has an option for single or twin sticks that doesn't seem to do anything, but actually affects other games like Vanguard that don't even have that option (vanguard actually used four buttons in the arcade for firing and plays fine with the four face buttons).
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

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Marc wrote:Nice!
I'm still failing miserably in the second world, but I'm playing in fits and starts, because this one riles me up waaaay more than the first one ever did.
What's killing you? At first I found the industrial area to be the easier second world, but I started doing a lot better once I began favoring the jungle instead. Whether you rob it or shop peacefully, the black market will pretty much always leave you well equipped to survive the rest of the run.

I think the biggest mistake people make in this game is trying to take big risks early on for an advantage later. It's not too hard if you play defensively the whole way through. Messing with shopkeepers is more trouble than it's worth most of the time. If you see a jetpack and a box of bombs for sale in 1-2 then maybe it's worth it, don't set yourself up for game-long problems over spring shoes and a pitching glove. If you do mess with them then try to rob them without doing any damage so you're only wanted for one level. Tricking them into shooting their own power packs and bomb bags and blowing themselves up counts as not doing damage. The rope trick will leave you wanted for two levels, which will be further extended when you inevitably have to defend yourself against the shopkeepers. If you want a shotgun, stealing one from Madame Tusk's bodyguards in the water zone is much safer. The rope trick works on them too. As far as I know, killing Tusk will prevent any more of her bodyguards from spawning, but I like to leave her alive so I can steal another shotgun on 6-3. Jungle -> water seems to be the safest and most reliable route. The nearly invisible spike traps and bear traps are annoying, but you'll get used to them. Vlad's cape is an outstanding item but on average the black market will leave you better equipped. Get the ankh from Olmec even if you're not doing postgame. The ability to survive a single stunlock or instant kill is a huge. Don't hesitate to skip dangerous areas with bombs. If a damsel's in a bad spot just ignore them, 1 hp rarely makes a difference anyway.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

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Bassa-Bassa wrote:Yeah, you never know. But aren't actually all the graphics in Inti's games filtered without the the option to get them raw scaled (despite lacking a scanlines option, surprisingly)? At least, all except the Blaster Masters/8 bitters?
Of the PS4 ones I've played, Luminous Avenger and Dragon Marked For Death's sprites look filtered to me, yep - nothing awful, but noticeable. Both Blaster Master Zeroes look pretty sharp, IIRC... at any rate, none of these four have any sort of graphical filter/scanline options. The Rockman Zero collection does, but I'm not sure if Inti were involved with that one.

In related re-release news,

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Feeling lazy, I took a punt at the 2018 PS4 Nocturne/Rondo collection. TBH, I was expecting a Digital Eclipse-style fiasco, given Konami's latter-day standards. Pleasantly surprised to find both games came out more than acceptably - for convenience and quality, this is easily comparable with M2 and Hamster's Dracula works, putting a nice chunk of the series' first decade on PS4. As with those releases, control response is razor-sharp, framerates are solid, and graphical options are inoffensive.

Rondo seems 1:1 with PCE-CD, absolutely no issues I could detect. SOTN would rate similarly, if not for a few silly graphical flaws. Items and certain graphical effects (like the Wolf's dash) are noticeably dimmed, and two specific details are botched: the Outer Wall's long-suffering elevator cable is now a placeholder-esque line, slightly hampering the awesome sense of violence when crashing between floors (though Alucard's yelps of protest and the grinding sparks hold the fort). And the lava caverns' wall shadows are missing. Being used to playing via PS2 BC, with its own handful of dings (like Olrox's courtyard moonlight glaring straight through the brickwork), it's easy enough to forgive.

Gotta be honest, I'm just amazed they didn't completely mangle both games. :/

On the upside, the PS1's already short loadtimes are now non-existent, and its similarly minimal slowdown is also nixed. Not even nerve-gassing the Inverted Entryway's Fire Wargs and Beam Skeletons with a pair of tamed Ouroboroses in tow will cause the framerate to budge. Sadly this also kills the post-boss HP Max Up slowmo, but on balance, it's a decent trade imo.

TLDR: If you're living out of a suitcase and want to get your Magical Vacation Dracula on, this'll do fine. Go for the English-language version if possible - the JP one lacks the Bat's Chain Wing Smash, a small but addictive movement option.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Squire Grooktook »

feelio when wanna SOUL STEAL on legion but kept messing up the input all fight
RegalSin wrote:Japan an almost perfect society always threatened by outsiders....................

Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

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Sadly my internet is being a gaping asshole this week :evil: Got a bunch of GIFs I wanna put up. :[ The command interpreter really jumped out, this revisit. I love how you can break out knockdowns with a command, be it a spell, a sword tech, a transformation, etc - down to a simple hop. Reminds me of Hideki Kamiya's no-knockdown ethos, where getting blown off your feet can be parlayed into a potentially massive counter-riposte, or a desperate escape. Vital, continuous control, the polar opposite of drudge like Alien 3 (MD), where knockdowns are primarily for annoying and disempowering the player.

With Soul Steal, and other commands requiring an initial direction followed by a motion, like Hellfire, or Richter's body ram - I find it helps to partition the respective phases. EG, for Soul Steal, hit the [forward], wait a tick, then the [HCF+ATK]. The game's happy to wait, with the pad returning to neutral in between. However, if you attempt a single unbroken string, and accidentally bump a diagonal while crossing phases (easily done, I find), it'll cockblock you every time. Seems the interpreter's lenient on time, but a total stickler prick on inputs.

As always, the spectre of What Coulda Been fleetingly haunts my SOTN revisits. Stage design is too sedate to realise its movement and combat's massive potential. And as fun as its weapons and tools are, they're too Skinnerboxed to factor in consistently. At the same time, between its airtight mechanics, vast action/horror toybox, and absorbing artistry, it's a work of absolutely singular leisure. Easy as it is to imagine its engine being put to work in a more treacherously technical castle, one preserving Rondo's masterful balance - there are other games for that. SOTN, by accident or design, is for 2D action aficionados to kick back and mess around; having to create your own trouble is a small asking price.

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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by FinalBaton »

What are your thoughts on Richter playthrough?
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Deceptively good! Going to do my usual no-save all-bosses SEEK & DESTROY tomorrow evening. Image :mrgreen:

However, I think a lot of enjoyment comes down to mastering his body ram input. Just like Soul Steal, you want to prime it with [up] then hit [QCF+ATK].

With its utter invincibility and high speed/damage/range, you can be ridiculously aggressive and violent with it, once you get the timing and input down - particularly as it chains infinitely into both itself and the uppercut. Going for long stretches without touching the ground during large melees and boss fights, ramming and uppercutting without pause, not only looks/feels cool, it can rack up a ton of damage too.

And of course if you come out of either move in a bad spot, you're gonna suffer. :3 Tactical Vampire Ramming Action. Image That's what BOMBA is for!

His backstep, Item Crashes and slide are fun tools, as well. And as far as double-tap dash inputs go... (I've been spoiled by Dragon Marked For Death's lovely "hold L1" input), his ability to not only start a dash by about-facing, but maintain dash state while changing directions and leaping from platform to platform is GOAT. Image Besides giving enormous mileage per double-tap, it also facilitates toe-to-toe aggression when whipping deadly enemies. Much more natural-feeling to edge closer in, knowing if something deadly is swung/thrown your way, you can dash outta there with a simple pivot. Circle of the Moon basically CTRL+Ving his dash input onto Nathan is a big plus for that game.

Without the ram he'd be nowhere as interesting to me, though, so I can understand if some are left cold.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Blinge »

Squire Grooktook wrote:feelio when wanna SOUL STEAL on legion but kept messing up the input all fight
bruh :lol:

Them fucking inputs.
BIL wrote:Without the ram he'd be nowhere as interesting to me, though, so I can understand if some are left cold.
This. I think this was my first experience with richtuh as I didn't even know he had it.

His super jump is fucking dope too though, climbing the castle by upper-cutting anything 2DEF as you go. I actually like hitting Drac repeatedly with it at the beginning of the main game too.

Also Richter's Ram can chained into itself in the air, it's how the speedrunners do it, but miss one and you're kinda fucked.

My proud achievements with Richter were rushing the game myself, not exactly speedrun tier but I did get a 19 minute completion :o
Also, I beat galamoth once without item crashes.. which was just a fucking chore. You don't wanna be missing inputs there, definitely.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by FinalBaton »

Yeah Richter's dash, slide, backflip, uppercut(+ flying really) and body ram are fun af. and with a game that handles as smooth as this, it makes for really fun mobility and character handling. infinite uppercutting is so satisfying

I used Richter's body ram some before, intersped in my play, but now I need to tryna really spam it. I should redo a Richterru playthrough after my current Alucard one is concluded.

as for the inputs, I guess I adapted to the rythm since I can crank them out consistently. but I can kinda see what's meant here with the bit of particular rythm? with up/down best served with a slight delay after them
-FM Synth & Black Metal-
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