What'd you guys think of Doom Eternal?

[evil_ash_xero]

Bringing up a couple of game topics. I hope I don't get hammered for it.

I was playing this when it came out, but got fried. I just wasn't playing games much this year. Stuck to old school stuff.
I got back to this, and am near the end.

They really overdid the platforming. I mean, I like the addition... there's just too much of it. But playing Doom 2016, it does outclass it in a lot of areas. I just seems even more intense
than that game. And there's a lot more variety. Love the dashing.

This would be a 8 1/2, if it wasn't for all the god damned platforming. As said, I like it, but it gets to be a bit much. Not always. Just some stages. But too many.
I'm ranking it around an 8. I will probably end up liking it a tad more than 2016, just because I played them back to back... and it just seems to have a lot more going on. Even if it is a little unfocused.

What do you guys think? I know Doom 2016 was pretty popular here.

[Dochartaigh]

I've actually tried the 2016 Doom and Doom Eternal in the last ~month so it's fresh in my mind:

Doom 2016 (played on XBO - I don't PC game besides the original Doom on my Pentium III which I have played recently along with Duke 3d and Quake I didn't like at first. Just gave it another try not even a month ago and kinda fell in love with it and beat it. The super fast paced combat (literally just being able to move way faster) was a refreshing change from CoD and Battlefield games I've been playing for the last 13 years or so. It does get a little tedious when you literally have fights which deplete nearly every single bullet from every single gun and take forever though...

...was really excited to play Doom Eternal after I beat the 2016 game and so far have been majorly disappointed. I'm maybe 4 levels/stages in and still keep on running out of ammo constantly. I'm also finding the game to be very difficult for me as well. For literally the first time I can ever remember I had to turn a game on easy (and honestly am STILL having some trouble). I had zero issues on Doom 2016 on normal (or any other FPS, like ever), and sure I died in the 2016 game, but it wasn't super often or anything. I found being able to aim accurately and aiming while strafing to be a LOT harder than the previous game and messing with the settings didn't seem to help. Like hitting the gun that's mounted to that monster's back? Yeah, I can't do that, nearly ever (takes too much time for me to aim and I get hit every time I try...unless I get blatantly lucky).

Also having trouble when being constantly locked into VERY small (like ~10% the size of anything I can remember from the 2016 game) areas where you can't escape unless you kill everything... and I have like 40 shots left in my guns every time (and even when I'm fully loaded up I still die dozens of times)... Also do not enjoy wandering around after I kill everything for like 20+ minutes multiple times now looking for where the hell I'm supposed to go next and having to resort to youtubing a video of the level to see where I have to go or do some stupid weird multiple jump/dash/grapple/whatever move to advance to the next area. The maps have always been confusing to me in these games as well so they're of limited help.

So maybe I'll do the same as the 2016 game and try it in a couple years, but probably not. I'm honestly more of a casual gamer anymore (as in if I have to do a single area 30, 40, 50 times –no exaggeration– before passing it I just don't enjoy that... which is why I HATE any "souls-like" game lol). And yes, I am old, don't have the reflexes you 20-somethings have, and was never awesome at video games so it could just be me (and I'm sure somebody will chime in that I have to play it with a mouse... which isn't going to happen, ever).

[TransatlanticFoe]

I thought it was pretty great, but a couple of things hold it back.

Graphically it's amazing - I played on the original xbone and it manages to be both stunning to look at and silky smooth. It's the only console game to give me motion sickness down to how damn fast it moves. I'm glad it had a tonne of settings, because I had to tone down analogue stick sensitivity, field of view, motion blur and weapon sway just to not feel very sick after about 30 mins of play.

I really enjoyed the core gameplay, because it pretty much let you decide which weapons you wanted to use and gave upgrade options that seemed to genuinely fit different viable playstyles. Because I had my movement speed gimped to avoid motion sickness, I favoured shotguns and explosive secondary fire because precision was tough without otherwise taking damage. It also expects you to learn and grow your playstyle to survive as the game goes on - it gets tougher but rarely feels overwhelming, and making it through an encounter or nabbing a pickup just at the right time is a hell of a rush! It does give you a lot of tools and expects you to juggle them aggressively, and I can see how that might not be everyone's cup of tea - but I found the learning curve just right. I thought the cooldowns would be tricky to juggle but in reality you get good enough that you rarely panic and try to use a chainsaw when it's on its cooldown. I will say I found it disappointing how hard it was to work out what you could chainsaw at what charge level, so only ever used it on small fry. Definitely saved up my sword charges for Arch Viles because those fuckers need to die, fast.

I too found the platforming a bit much. I liked using it to explore, because failing a precision jump rarely meant taking critical damage (often it didn't lead to damage at all but if it did, you could always give up). However a lot of it in game required too much precision and often felt like there were leaps of faith - to the point where I found secrets because they looked like the more natural way to progress. It seemed really easy to accidentally double dash or you'd waste a dash and die later on because you're not sure if you'll reach a pole without it.

Finally, I thought the bosses sucked because they were usually counter to how the rest of the game played - and tediously so. The Marauder goes down like a chump if you stay within the specific window to counter him but is offensive outside of that. The Gladiator (or whatever it was, I was glad when that fight was over) is similar but with more waiting. The "floor is lava" boss requires the super shotgun's meathook to get up close (bad luck if you've chosen to not use it until now) but sometimes it doesn't seem to fire or your subsequent punch doesn't register. The Icon of Sin is just pray to RNGesus that you don't get anything too aggressive spawn in the first phase because it's way too cramped. They all feel just too rigid or too random, they take away the freedom you've enjoyed through the rest of the game and it ends up being a pretty big downer in my opinion. I attempted the"floor is lava" boss so many times because I couldn't get the meathook to fire or the punch would miss, and it recovers health so quickly. All while those fast moving headhot kill only baddies chip away at you.

Take away the gimmick bosses and make the platforming a bit more forgiving, and you'd have a hell of a game.

[versionfiv]

world of warcraft with heavy platformer overtones pretending to be a FPS.

i 100%'d the 2016 doom when they brought it to $6.66 sale this past January or whenever it was. not interested in this new one at all.

[kitten]

i hate it sheerly by nature of the completely retarded wave of people now referring to all iterations of the doomguy as "the slayer." nothing about the new doom games really speaks "doom," to me. it's another circle strafing arena shooter like serious sam or painkiller but with a grossly plastic aesthetic obsessed with BaDaSs ViOlEnCe and story written by people whose material should have stayed fanfic they are perpetually ashamed of.

[Vanguard]

i hate it sheerly by nature of the completely retarded wave of people now referring to all iterations of the doomguy as "the slayer."

This.

I didn't play Doom 2016 after hearing how deceptive and fake it is. Like a monster will take most of your health on its first hit, making it seem like you're in a lot of danger. But then it hits a second time and it does way less damage, just enough to not finish you off, because the game is scaling damage output to your health to make things seem more dangerous than they really are. I'm not a fan of the massively random damage in classic Doom either, but at least it's honest. Or like how if you need health or a specific type of ammo, you're way more likely to get that on your next kill. Can't have meaningful resource management with rules like that in place.

[Blinge]

Stop ruining my current virgin playthrough of Doom2016 on Normal.

Also what Vanguard said about ammo contradicts what Dochartaigh said so either the games handle ammo really differently or someone's confused.
Also if you're out of ammo isn't it time to whip out the chainsaw and make more magically appear?

Guess i'll have more to say when i finish 2016 but what did you guys want, just a new Doom that plays like the old one in full 3D? Basically a quake sequel? Yeah that'll fly..

kitten have you actually played it? I feel like If I'd just said "on an enemy! time to circle strafe!" i'd be turning my back on other enemies and getting mauled for it.

Edit: as for Eternal, my Personal Potato probably can't run it. I have to have DOOMSLAYER 2016 on low/medium if i want it to hover around 60fps

[Durandal]

i hate it sheerly by nature of the completely retarded wave of people now referring to all iterations of the doomguy as "the slayer."

This.

I didn't play Doom 2016 after hearing how deceptive and fake it is. Like a monster will take most of your health on its first hit, making it seem like you're in a lot of danger. But then it hits a second time and it does way less damage, just enough to not finish you off, because the game is scaling damage output to your health to make things seem more dangerous than they really are. I'm not a fan of the massively random damage in classic Doom either, but at least it's honest. Or like how if you need health or a specific type of ammo, you're way more likely to get that on your next kill. Can't have meaningful resource management with rules like that in place.

Only Doom Eternal has Guts, in DOOM (2016) Imps will happily shave off 50 HP from your healthbar without warning, resulting in a lot of "huh, I'm dead?" deaths, like how later bosses in Path of Exile can sometimes delete your entire health bar in one tick before you have time to use your flasks. Guts in Doom Eternal serves a similar purpose to becoming briefly invincible after getting hit in any 2D action game, which is giving the player the time to react to the fact that they got hit and are on low health, and so switch tactics to trying to recover resources.

[ZellSF]

I think the variation of the platforming segments is actually one of the better changes in Doom Eternal. I also liked the bosses.

Then again I thought the core gameplay loop wasn't anything special, it's an upgrade over Doom 2016, but I didn't like Doom 2016. I mean it isn't bad, it just isn't anything special.

Also what Vanguard said about ammo contradicts what Dochartaigh said so either the games handle ammo really differently or someone's confused.

No? You run out of ammo constantly, but you can refill it instantly.

It's a terrible system.

i hate it sheerly by nature of the completely retarded wave of people now referring to all iterations of the doomguy as "the slayer." nothing about the new doom games really speaks "doom," to me. it's another circle strafing arena shooter like serious sam or painkiller but with a grossly plastic aesthetic obsessed with BaDaSs ViOlEnCe and story written by people whose material should have stayed fanfic they are perpetually ashamed of.

Doom 2016 was terrible for this, but for Doom Eternal made more sense to me, Doom 2016's "I don't need to listen to information I'll just punch everything" was awful.

Guess i'll have more to say when i finish 2016 but what did you guys want, just a new Doom that plays like the old one in full 3D? Basically a quake sequel? Yeah that'll fly..

Quake does not play like Doom in 3D.

But yes, what I want from a Doom sequel is something that plays like Doom.

...was really excited to play Doom Eternal after I beat the 2016 game and so far have been majorly disappointed. I'm maybe 4 levels/stages in and still keep on running out of ammo constantly. I'm also finding the game to be very difficult for me as well. For literally the first time I can ever remember I had to turn a game on easy (and honestly am STILL having some trouble). I had zero issues on Doom 2016 on normal (or any other FPS, like ever)

Doom Eternal's difficulty scaling is bad, the first three chapters are pretty hard, but once you start getting all the tools and weapons the game expect you to play with most people find it gets much easier.

[Blinge]

But yes, what I want from a Doom sequel is something that plays like Doom.

what would that be like, then?

No jump?

[SuperDeadite]

I finally played through 2016 earlier this year. When it was super cheap and after the hype. I played on UV for my first run. Overal I enjoyed it, but the pacing was awful. First half was so much harder then the last. Also, youd go from arena fight to empty platforming, then back to arena.

After I started a nightmare run, but quit as it was just too annoying. Id have a great fight with 4 hell knights, then get killed by imp bitch slap to the back. It got old quick.

So I will wait for when Eternal us $5 or so then give it a go.

[ZellSF]

But yes, what I want from a Doom sequel is something that plays like Doom.

what would that be like, then?

No jump?

Resource management.

Unless you're implying jumping is the only thing that separates Doom from Quake; it isn't.

[PAPER/ARTILLERY]

To be fair, I think if you asked most people what the defining feature of the original DOOM was, resource management wouldn't be the first thing that comes to mind.

[XoPachi]

Honestly, it's one of my favorite FPS's like ever. I really liked 2016 and Eternal totally blew it out of the water for me.
I do think UltraKill is a bit better, but Eternal.....WOO that was something. I appreciate that they really force you to use everything or most everything at your disposal. And not doing so kills you dead.

[Dochartaigh]

Also what Vanguard said about ammo contradicts what Dochartaigh said so either the games handle ammo really differently or someone's confused.
Also if you're out of ammo isn't it time to whip out the chainsaw and make more magically appear?

No? You run out of ammo constantly, but you can refill it instantly.

You only get a couple uses (want to say 2?, maybe 3) out of the chainsaw before it's depleted so it's in no way foolproof to fill up your ammo every time.

In the first several levels your max shotgun shells you can hold for example is something like 16... secondary weapon (forget what it's called) is something like 32 rounds? (maybe 48), so even when you fill up every single weapon (of which you only have a few), you really still have barely any ammo which is why I've been running out constantly. Oh, hitting people does nothing either unless they're blinking so you can't even run around punching people to kill them (or if you can it takes more than the like 4-6+ hits on a single low level person I've tried before...).

Doom Eternal's difficulty scaling is bad, the first three chapters are pretty hard, but once you start getting all the tools and weapons the game expect you to play with most people find it gets much easier.

Good to note, thanks. Might try to EVER SO PAINFULLY (really, I die like 30+ times in a single area constantly) get another couple levels in and see if it gets easier.

[Austin]

DOOM Eternal is excellent. That said, coming from 2016, it was overwhelming for at least half of my first playthrough, if not all of it. Micro-managing all of its new gameplay systems was the main culprit: Flame belch enables armor drops, chainsaw enables ammo drops, ice cannon can eventually enable health drops, there's the grenade launcher, then the blood punch.. all of which are mapped to different keys and all have cool-down periods. This isn't even touching on the variety in your standard weapons and character upgrades.

The combat is also super intense. It pretty much requires solid play on Ultra Violence and up.

To the folks that are ignoring these titles based on arbitrary reasoning, you're missing out on some of the best FPS games made in a long, long time. If you want classic DOOM, you can still play classic DOOM (and countless community WADs). Unfortunately, a FPS like that won't fly on a massive scale in this day and age.

I personally feel both 2016 and Eternal straddle a nice line between the oldschool and the modern. The action is intense and satisfying. During downtime there's a ton of exploration to be done in these games, as both are crammed with secrets and other Easter Eggs.

[Austin]

No? You run out of ammo constantly, but you can refill it instantly.

You only get a couple uses (want to say 2?, maybe 3) out of the chainsaw before it's depleted so it's in no way foolproof to fill up your ammo every time.

In the first several levels your max shotgun shells you can hold for example is something like 16... secondary weapon (forget what it's called) is something like 32 rounds? (maybe 48), so even when you fill up every single weapon (of which you only have a few), you really still have barely any ammo which is why I've been running out constantly. Oh, hitting people does nothing either unless they're blinking so you can't even run around punching people to kill them (or if you can it takes more than the like 4-6+ hits on a single low level person I've tried before...).

It only takes about 20 seconds for the chainsaw to charge back up. This is where micro-managing (and being acutely aware of your cool-downs) is very important. Blood punch comes pretty early in the game as well and should be used, along with all of the other systems that are in place.

Doom Eternal's difficulty scaling is bad, the first three chapters are pretty hard, but once you start getting all the tools and weapons the game expect you to play with most people find it gets much easier.

Good to note, thanks. Might try to EVER SO PAINFULLY (really, I die like 30+ times in a single area constantly) get another couple levels in and see if it gets easier.

I don't really agree with this. I found the game to get more difficult as it progressed. Fights became more intense even with my larger and upgraded arsenal. Some of the fights near the end in particular gave me hell on my first playthrough. On subsequent playthroughs though, even with the limited weapon and ammo options near the beginning, I still ripped right through it like it was nothing. Familiarity goes a long, long way with this one.

Your mileage may vary.

[Vanguard]

Only Doom Eternal has Guts, in DOOM (2016) Imps will happily shave off 50 HP from your healthbar without warning, resulting in a lot of "huh, I'm dead?" deaths, like how later bosses in Path of Exile can sometimes delete your entire health bar in one tick before you have time to use your flasks. Guts in Doom Eternal serves a similar purpose to becoming briefly invincible after getting hit in any 2D action game, which is giving the player the time to react to the fact that they got hit and are on low health, and so switch tactics to trying to recover resources.

Did I somehow mix them up? Well anyway it doesn't serve the same purpose as mercy invincibility. Mercy invincibility gives you time where you're completely safe so you can reposition yourself or finish an enemy off and try to prevent one hit from snowballing. All this system does is tell you you have 100HP when really you have 150.

To be fair, I think if you asked most people what the defining feature of the original DOOM was, resource management wouldn't be the first thing that comes to mind.

Not the first maybe, but it's certainly one of classic Doom's many outstanding features.

[To Far Away Times]

I have never been so conflicted on a game.

One on hand, its almost a character action game rather than an FPS, and I can't believe a game with this sort of budget demands this much out of the player. It's glorious.

On the other hand gameplay is largely based around jugling cooldowns and spinning various plates, and the strict ruleset allows little way for improvisation. The Maurader is incredibly unfun to fight as well and just seems to work against the game's ruleset in ways it wasn't designed for.

Overall I like Doom 2016 a bit better but I'm glad Eternal exists. It's a ballsy sequel for sure and I'm glad they tried something unique.

[Vanguard]

These are probably above average games, but I'm a hater and it takes very little to convince me that something is a vile betrayal of everything good, and also classic Doom is like the best game to ever come out of the western hemisphere.

[ZellSF]

I don't really agree with this. I found the game to get more difficult as it progressed. Fights became more intense even with my larger and upgraded arsenal. Some of the fights near the end in particular gave me hell on my first playthrough. On subsequent playthroughs though, even with the limited weapon and ammo options near the beginning, I still ripped right through it like it was nothing. Familiarity goes a long, long way with this one.

Your mileage may vary.

I said most people, do you disagree with it getting easier or do you disagree that it is the consensus?

The Maurader is incredibly unfun to fight as well and just seems to work against the game's ruleset in ways it wasn't designed for.

Marauder always struck me as an improved hell knight. A monster with a lot of HP that chased you and you had to wear down.

I don't get people's problem with it. If anything it fits too well. It could use some unique ability that sets it apart (like the dog summoning, which you sadly mostly see if you're doing something seriously wrong).

To the folks that are ignoring these titles based on arbitrary reasoning, you're missing out on some of the best FPS games made in a long, long time. If you want classic DOOM, you can still play classic DOOM (and countless community WADs). Unfortunately, a FPS like that won't fly on a massive scale in this day and age.

We know this... based on no one trying?

I don't see why a resource management FPS wouldn't work today.

[Blinge]

I don't think you've shown how OG doom was about resource management.
Custom maps don't count.

[ZellSF]

You manage your ammo, armor and health (maybe powerups too). They're all resources in limited supply and you have manage them throughout the episode. If you want to be shown this, I'm like 75% sure that someone has uploaded footage of Doom to Youtube.

Custom maps don't count.

Doom (and Doom II) are about resource management by themselves but why when considering Doom would you not count a major part of it?

[Blinge]

Yeah i've seen plenty of gameplay on youtube of people running roughshod over powerups, picking up boxes of shells when they're only lacking like 3.

Also, in Doom2016 i've been leaving ammo pickups behind so i can come back for them later.

[Durandal]

All this system does is tell you you have 100HP when really you have 150.

The reason why that is is to allow players to react to the fact that they're on low health, which prevents those unsatisfying "huh, what just killed me?"-type of deaths, which was incredibly common in Doom 2016 and would have been in Eternal because of heavy enemies being able to take huge chunks out of your health bar in one shot. This wouldn't be necessary in classic Doom because there most deaths are caused by letting the situation spiral out of control as you are boxed in by enemies everywhere. There the cause of death is apparent enough, and Guts can't save you from an impossible situation anyways.

[ZellSF]

Yeah i've seen plenty of gameplay on youtube of people running roughshod over powerups, picking up boxes of shells when they're only lacking like 3.

As said, it is a resource management game. You can get good at it. Since 1993, people have had plenty of time to get very good at it and they can afford to waste ammo. Especially shotgun shells which is the most plentiful resource in the game.

[Blinge]

Okay. they do it with like, every pickup not just shells. I said shells as an example.

Your argument for it being a resource management game is that people don't do resource management??

Ok mate.

[ZellSF]

Okay. they do it with like, every pickup not just shells. I said shells as an example.

Your argument for it being a resource management game is that people don't do resource management??

Ok mate.

People who have mastered all other aspects of the game don't need to do perfect resource management. That's what I said. Doesn't mean that there isn't resource management or that it isn't a focus of the game.

Shmups can't be about preserving lives, I've seen plenty of Youtube videos where people have tons of them they don't use.

That's what you sound like .

[Blinge]

That's probably not the slamdunk point you think it is. They're not about preserving lives, they're about dodging and shooting.
Like Doom.

You're focusing entirely on one aspect, resource management, and saying it's the most important thing. This is all well and good and i'm sure it makes perfect sense in your head.. but it doesn't to me or Paper.
I don't accept that resource management is what makes Doom. So we're pretty much done here.

Other than the fact that, would you like Doom2016 more if someone modded it to remove chainsaw/glory kill ammo drops, and threw some more pickups into the levels? would that fix it?

i hate it sheerly by nature of the completely retarded wave of people now referring to all iterations of the doomguy as "the slayer."

Not heard a single person call him the slayer.

nothing about the new doom games really speaks "doom," to me. it's another circle strafing arena shooter

Ah yes because no one thinks circle strafing when they think doom. o_0

grossly plastic aesthetic obsessed with BaDaSs ViOlEnCe

Doom was one of the most violent games of its time and this definitely helped to sell it..

[ZellSF]

That's probably not the slamdunk point you think it is. They're not about preserving lives, they're about dodging and shooting.

... to preserve lives. It's a core part of the game.

Other than the fact that, would you like Doom2016 more if someone modded it to remove chainsaw/glory kill ammo drops, and threw some more pickups into the levels? would that fix it?

Part of Doom's resource management is that it allows you to traverse the levels at will. Doom 2016 constantly locks you into arenas. And all of the encounters are designed around you being able to fill ammo/health instantly during the fight.

Doom 2016 needs a much more extensive redesign if it wants to have resource management. If it wants to be a Doom sequel it also needs to get rid of the RPG systems.

Ah yes because no one thinks circle strafing when they think doom. o_0

I don't. I would if you didn't tell me to discount custom levels. Sure as hell spend more time managing resources than circle strafing.

I have to ask. Have you actually played Doom?