Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[BrianC]

I should check switch, but I did have similar control issues in SAR with the PC version of the SNK collection. Drifting on the left stick (thankfully d-pad control is there) and aiming would sometimes freeze in a direction on the right stick.

[BIL]

Thanks for the confirmation. Yeah, the right stick freeze happens in SAR on PS4 too. Especially annoying in that one, since it's almost like the LS-30 controls are working properly, with the character staying locked to his current direction while moving. Then you try to adjust your aim, and no dice.

Rapidly 360'ing the right stick seems to snap it out of it. I've gotten into the habit of doing so when I've got a second, every now and then. It happens maybe once per 2hrs, hardly frequent, but ofc it shouldn't happen at all. Not at all impressed with the lack of a patch.

[Steamflogger Boss]

I've been sucking at Contra III. Pretty sad tbh.

[BIL]

Very unforgiving game! Are you on defaults? Hard is a second loop in all but name, and packs in several bullshit gotchas that even Loop 1 clearers might not see coming.

Worth sticking with though.

[Steamflogger Boss]

Yeah man, default settings all across the board.

[BrianC]

Funny thing is that while I don't have SNK 40th on PS4, I was using a PS4 controller to play it on PC. I think there's at least one game that even lets you configure which system's controller buttons the game tells you to press (SOR4, IIRC). Funny how the current systems all have PC compatible controllers (no surprise with Microsoft, though). I also bought a second Switch Pro Controller. I'm liking it better than the first one. D-pad seems slightly wider and it feels less mushy.

[BIL]

Guevara's breaking down nicely. As I suspected, the first boss (heli) is a spike - by far the game's nastiest and most technical. On-foot, I've no idea how you're meant to consistently defeat its combined speed, projectiles and support zako. I can survive two/three reps, but inevitably get caught between its aggressive dives and seeker spreads.

Fortunately you can do this. Coming in from Ikari, the tank being a game-changer was no surprise. This technique requires you to grab the tank (obviously) and bazooka from the preceding riverbank. Regular tank shells won't kill him as cleanly, no idea if flamethrower is better/worse. I've enjoyed this reciprocal ruthlessness in Ikari and Dogo, too. Carve out an advantage and press it to the hilt, these games want you dead.

As for the remaining bosses, the second has an exploit visible from space. Third is a basic safespotter. Fourth looks brutal, but the game's remarkably tiny bullet/exposion hitboxes make improv-dodging him a snap. It really helps that, unlike Ikari and Dogo, your basic MG actually hurts most large enemies. Only tapping currently, but with its high autofire ceiling, you could really tear 'em up.

Final boss is simple in theory, but packs two lethal tricks. 1) reach it with under 36 grenades and you'll almost certainly need to suicide for more. 2) the traditional Ikari timeout airstrike. Nailed down a quick kill with five-ten seconds left on the clock. In a final insult, the timer keeps running during the boss explosion. If it expires before the screen scrolls upward to the end sequence, your triumphantly posing avatar will eat a shell. Shouldn't count as a death, in my book - once the game withdraws control, the run's over, as far as I'm concerned. And your life display vanishes with the final target, to boot. Still, it'll drive perfectionists nuts.

Compared to the relatively expansive Famicom rendition, it's a surprisingly compact game - not much longer than the ~15minute Ikari and Dogo. However, the pressure per square inch is immense. The last couple stages' dispensing with horizontal scrolling is an interesting choice. The return to Ikari/Dogo vert-only progress feels almost comfy, the stages being utter gauntlets regardless, the latter requiring surgical grenadiering with the last boss looming.

I miss Ikari and Dogo's monstrous Red grenades and associated multi-kills (never mind Ikari's raucous chainsplosions). Even their standard Greys outshine Guevara's wimpy pops. They're still critical for bypassing terrain, and the bazooka/flamethrower's ripping shots aren't to be scoffed at (appropriately gruesome animation on the latter's victims, almost wonder if Nazca were inspired by those plaintive yowls). Just a shame the gorgeously detailed setting isn't quite as volatile-feeling as Ikari's, where you can take out a building, a helicopter and a couple of tanks plus god know how many infantry with one well-placed pineapple.

Was surprised to see the scattershot MG is Famicom-only. I'd always thought its firing cone would be really handy in a rotary game.

Particularly as a native son of the region, I like that SNK figured out how to draw jungle between Ikari and this. Those coconut tree roots are legit. Drastic improvement on Ikari's unfortunately phlegmmy jungle.

[BrianC]

I picked up Cirucs Charlie AA on the switch. Grew up playing it in arcades and it's just as fun as I remember. Was a bit disappointed that some of the music was altered, but gameplay is spot on.

[Sumez]

I'd love going for a Blazing Chrome hard 1CC, but the game is a little too long for my patience I think. There are so many places you'll immediately screw up if you aren't prepared for specific patterns.
Contra 4 probably tested my limits in terms of how long a game of this type I'll learn to perfect, but once you got that game down you get so many 1ups it's impossible to game over anyway.

[BrianC]

I found out that the PS1 Konami Arcade collection and probably the AC re-release it's based on have the same altered stage 1 theme as the ACA release of Circus Charlie.

[BIL]

I was wondering about that - the music seemed familiar, from my very brief credits with the PS1 disc. Despite having KAC forever, I've not played Circus Charlie beyond that. That and Mikey, always tripped my anti-goofball prejudices hard. Gimme Labyrinth Runner already!

Picked up the ACA PS4 version, cool little game! I like the "platformer skills test" / time trialling minigame concept. Would've liked a little shoot/stomp action, and I think it might've played more optimally in yoko's wider FOV, but neither's an issue.

[Sengoku Strider]

Funny thing is that while I don't have SNK 40th on PS4, I was using a PS4 controller to play it on PC. I think there's at least one game that even lets you configure which system's controller buttons the game tells you to press (SOR4, IIRC). Funny how the current systems all have PC compatible controllers (no surprise with Microsoft, though). I also bought a second Switch Pro Controller. I'm liking it better than the first one. D-pad seems slightly wider and it feels less mushy.

I heard a ton of complaints about the Pro Controller, but I bought mine at the end of May, and it's been awesome. I'm thinking they must have recently addressed the wiggly dpad issues.

[BIL]

Might this predate SHIN CONTRA in the charged flamethrower = GAWD stakes? The Missile's black hole bomb (recalling not only Darius Gaiden, but Dogosoken's bonus round vortexes) seems pretty good too... I'm mostly curious about the Machinegun's charge shot, doesn't seem to have the other two's utility but maybe it's a steamroller.

God damn, steamroller indeed. Charged MG can kill first boss CHAGAMAN (badass name) in a couple shots, and second boss CHUCHU TANK in all of one.



Suck on that you CHUCHU BITCH No wonder they demoted you for st3! Oh, he's actually called Chonma G-Tank, whoops.

Much less useful vs DEVIL SNAKE, no doubt due to his being armoured in DEVIL'S PROTEIN But he's a lame fuck anyway. Just like Chaga and Chuchu he's easily foiled by the infinite horizontal plane, but while their homing rockets and CHUCHU FLAME are harrowing, he just kinda follows you around like an asshole. Best feature is his buddy looking to nom your face while you head to the door, no surprise if you were paying attention to Chaga's parting shot.

I like the weapon triad here - nice smooth scale from fast/weak to slow/strong on main shots, with exactly the opposite applying to chargers, for a substantial tactical dilemma. Balance seems tailored for differing playstyles, rather than simply tying weapon types to specific areas. Charge MG deals a single unstoppable wallop that wipes out zako formations, and splatters Xenos before they can even enter RAEG MOED. Gotta watch out for rushing heavies, though - easy to get overwhelmed. Charge Flame's shield can obliterate a couple heavies apiece, and considerably more zako - a good thing, as the slower shot's not as comfy as the MG spray. Charge Rocket's vortex can't affect large enemies at all, but it'll nuke all medium/light targets for a lengthy period. Fatal flaw seems to be it disabling the rockets while active, leaving you with its puny sidearm.

Regular fire's rockets do punishing damage, with a handy homing feature, but the abysmal firing rate makes me uneasy. Seems like the high risk/high reward pick, or maybe it's just the weakest. The game's generous with switch opportunities, so experimentation is a cinch.

On balance, going for a first 1CC, I'm happy with MG for stages 1-3. Reaching the final gauntlet on a credit, I wonder about switching. That's one helluva lot of Xenos. Up to that point, the MG's suppressing fire has been pretty comfy. Zako formations are deceptively nasty, with them tracking your horizontal position.



I like how SAR handles timeouts. Rather than a far-off but inescapable apocalypse ala the Ikaris, SAR simply ensures something - maybe zombies, maybe worse - is always waiting to spawn behind you, after five seconds or so without a screen refresh (these hunter enemies totally separate to the pre-set backstabber spawns - you may well end up facing both simultaneously if you're slow). It seamlessly enhances the aesthetic of inescapable horror, and also curbs charge shot abuse.

Stylistically, copying over from the ATTRACT MODE thread, it hit me the other day - this is to Aliens what Splatterhouse is to Friday The 13th. That is, they obviously shoplift one icon apiece (Xenomorph/Jason), but the wider games are such rich canvases of horror inspiration, even the copycats are made their own. As with SH's forays beyond slasher mayhem into the chthonic and the body-horrific, SAR recalls The Thing, Body Snatchers and Japanese mecha/guro fiction just as strongly as Cameron's space marine bible.

Blocked by an assault suit on a crumbling catwalk, gutting it with plasma, riddling its zombie pilot, the corpse birthing a parasite horde that coalesces into a hulking Xeno, who shrugs off hideous damage to blindly charge, tumbling screeching into the abyss as you dive for the airlock... or in other words, stage 2-1. This thing is fuckin literature.

[copy-paster]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjXySb11NlE

I don't have time to even watch all of this vid, perhaps BIRU-SAMA or others could examine and do a rebuttal.

[Sumez]

Oh no. The title of that video makes me sad. I don't think I'll watch it either.

EDIT: I gave up. I watched 10 minutes, and the guy just rambles on without having any idea of where he's going. It's hard to make out what he's saying with his constant lisp, too.

[Bloodreign]

Oh no. The title of that video makes me sad. I don't think I'll watch it either.

EDIT: I gave up. I watched 10 minutes, and the guy just rambles on without having any idea of where he's going. It's hard to make out what he's saying with his constant lisp, too.

Maybe the game hurt his feelings, or his pussy, one of the two. So since it hurt one of those, he makes this video to complain.

[BIL]

Please don't track dog shit into the house, it's all over the place out there.

I don't have time to even watch all of this vid, perhaps BIRU-SAMA or others could examine and do a rebuttal.

No time here either I'm afraid, I've got to rescue the mayor's daughter AND overthrow Batista AND put these Poor Space Fucks™ out of their misery Some hard shit, I need vacation!

Further to SAR, the climactic area in the second GIF above - reminds me of Cocytus, the frozen river at the lowest circle of hell in The Divine Comedy, which flows into (ding ding ding!) the river Acheron. I wonder if SNK did that deliberately. Regardless, a layer of solid xeno-amber, pitifully infested victims frozen within. I wonder if they're some ill-fated prior expedition that the current Ship Full Of Poor Fucks™ were unknowingly sent after. God knows there's enough heavy assault gear on this fuckin ship, all of it jacked by those shitbird zombies.



Oh! Here's the apparent namesake of st2 boss CHONMA TANK G. Man I love HEAVY GEAR x XENO-HORROR productions.

Final boss BIG GERM underwhelmed a bit - not quite the show-stopping horror I'd hoped lurked at the end of this nightmare trip. Mean fuck of a pattern though! AT FIRST ANYWAY Charge MG does him like Chaga & Chuchu. Charge Flame is useless, but regulars do 'im fine. Rocket seems like a comfortably-upholstered deathtrap in the final stage, though it's an intriguing weapon. More of a charge bomb than a charge shot.

I do like Germy's slight occult bent, always a reliable accent for Gigeresques, and his intro text had some cracking Engrish about DEVILS BACTERIUM or something. Brr!

[Herr Schatten]

I felt masochistic enough to watch the whole of it. 30 minutes of droning on basically boil down to: Ninja Gaiden is bad, because it drops you back at 6-1 if you fail any of the final bosses.

The gameplay footage was just painful to watch. Makes Edmont look like a master player in comparison. The player is not even trying to understand how to handle sections. He seems to basically expect the game to let him bumble through. For example he claims that the first machine gun guy at the beginning of the second floor of 6-2 can only be beaten with the jump slash. I'm not a great player, but even I found out how to get past him on, like, my third try.
Paradoxically, he manages to mention several times that the enemies always spawn at the exact same places everytime, yet still complains that they catch him unaware. And he blames the game for it.

Alas, there's a lot we all can learn from that video. (I'm paraphrasing, because I can't be arsed to re-watch parts of it to find out the exact words he used.)

- Apparently, the reason why the game looks easy in speedrun videos is that those speedrunners know exactly where all the subweapons are hidden and where to use them most effectively. (What dark magic is that?)
- If you execute the necessary jumps and slashes in a level perfectly, you will succeed. If you don't, you won't. (No shit, Sherlock.)
- [At Jaquio]: If you keep bumping into him, you will die. (How about not doing that then, pal?)

There are several more statements just as hilarious. Game wisdom indeed.

[Sumez]

Ninja Gaiden is one of the worst obstacles of the "modern" perspective a lot of people share that a game is only played through once, and should be judged entirely based on that premise.

[Herr Schatten]

I just don't get why people keep insisting on 'playing' a game by themselves, but at the same time flat-out refuse to learn how to actually play it. If they just want to see the whole game once, a youtube video would not only suffice, it would probably be the more enjoyable experience for them.

It's as if I was complaining that taking my instrument and randomly hitting notes doesn't magically turn into me playing the bass solo in the middle of Metallica's Orion. To even produce something vaguely similar I need to learn which notes to hit and when. If I refuse to put in that amount time, I'll be much happier putting on Master of Puppets and listening to Cliff Burton playing the thing instead.

[BIL]

Turns out SNK40th not only has a right stick freeze bug, but a left one, too. -_- I'd never have guessed, I wouldn't touch that floppy POS with a ten-foot pole. Thankfully the dpad control is (in my experience) airtight. Movement AND aiming randomly seizing up would be the last straw, I'm afraid.

This referring to PS4, but similar reports are all over the Steam and Switch versions too.

I know Digital Eclipse have always had a dodgy rep. I'd no opinion of them until now, having never played any of their stuff. I'm amazed this thing was released in its current condition, never mind left unpatched for well over a year and counting. These are hardcore action games - without a reliable player interface, they're little better than slot machines. I get that they're nostalgia-baiting credit feeders to many, but surely, even that audience wants the games to work properly?

Not to be a broken record. This is the last post I'll make on the subject, pending further developments. I'd love to see this thing get a patch. It's a nice selection, and with no guarantee of an ACA Search And Rescue, Battle Field, Genshitou, Bermuda Triangle or Vanguard, not to mention lots of other neat stuff, I'm certainly not regretting picking it up. Quality control though, seriously...

[o.pwuaioc]

Some people just don't need to be making videos of games. Who is this guy that anyone would torture themselves watching that? I watched the first few minutes and then skipped ahead to watch some later stuff and it's clear he doesn't know what he's talking about or even why he's talking.

I felt masochistic enough to watch the whole of it. 30 minutes of droning on basically boil down to: Ninja Gaiden is bad, because it drops you back at 6-1 if you fail any of the final bosses.

The gameplay footage was just painful to watch. Makes Edmont look like a master player in comparison. The player is not even trying to understand how to handle sections. He seems to basically expect the game to let him bumble through. For example he claims that the first machine gun guy at the beginning of the second floor of 6-2 can only be beaten with the jump slash. I'm not a great player, but even I found out how to get past him on, like, my third try.
Paradoxically, he manages to mention several times that the enemies always spawn at the exact same places everytime, yet still complains that they catch him unaware. And he blames the game for it.

Alas, there's a lot we all can learn from that video. (I'm paraphrasing, because I can't be arsed to re-watch parts of it to find out the exact words he used.)

- Apparently, the reason why the game looks easy in speedrun videos is that those speedrunners know exactly where all the subweapons are hidden and where to use them most effectively. (What dark magic is that?)
- If you execute the necessary jumps and slashes in a level perfectly, you will succeed. If you don't, you won't. (No shit, Sherlock.)
- [At Jaquio]: If you keep bumping into him, you will die. (How about not doing that then, pal?)

There are several more statements just as hilarious. Game wisdom indeed.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I felt masochistic enough to watch the whole of it. 30 minutes of droning on basically boil down to: Ninja Gaiden is bad, because it drops you back at 6-1 if you fail any of the final bosses.

It's indeed a dick move on the game's part (and wasn't this something specific to the US release of the game or am I misremembering) but it's certainly not bad enough to condemn the game as a whole. The stage itself felt much harder than the final bosses were, so once you can get to the final bosses with some degree of consistency it's not that bad to learn them I think.

- Apparently, the reason why the game looks easy in speedrun videos is that those speedrunners know exactly where all the subweapons are hidden and where to use them most effectively. (What dark magic is that?)

Shoutout to games like Castlevania Bloodlines that actually indicate what item boxes have new subweapons, or to games where picking up a new subweapon drops the old one so you can choose which one without that slightly archaic element of having to memorize what drops which subweapon where. It's not an insurmountable issue by any means, though.

Ninja Gaiden is one of the worst obstacles of the "modern" perspective a lot of people share that a game is only played through once, and should be judged entirely based on that premise.

I hate, hate, hate that you are right. This attitude that a good game is meant to only be played once then shelved away indefinitely makes me extremely sad for our current generation. Of course, with the rise of digitial distribution and indie gaming, it's easy to get a massive library of games you simply can't keep up with, but I still think quality over quantity is what matters here.

[Stevens]

I'd love going for a Blazing Chrome hard 1CC, but the game is a little too long for my patience I think. There are so many places you'll immediately screw up if you aren't prepared for specific patterns.
Contra 4 probably tested my limits in terms of how long a game of this type I'll learn to perfect, but once you got that game down you get so many 1ups it's impossible to game over anyway.

You can do it. I'm far from the best here and I managed the hard 1 CC fairly quick. Like Contra 4 the game gives you a lot of extra lives.

The real hurdle between a hard 1 CC and a deathless run for me is the 2nd half of stage 3. I generally die 2 or 3 times during the rest of the game, but have lost 3\4 lives at that part alone if I don't have the right weapon.

[BIL]

It's indeed a dick move on the game's part (and wasn't this something specific to the US release of the game or am I misremembering)

Nope, it was on FC from the start. Technically a glitch they liked the effect of, much like Street Fighter II's cancels and Devil May Cry's juggling. While those glitches helped create entire genres, this glitch created The Internet's Maddest Scrub and this lovely thread.

Mr. Yoshizawa directed the action part for the first game, but that was actually something a programmer had implemented this way accidentally. However, it wasn't tried to fix it. They were like "hey, that's not bad, either". *laughs

They liked it so much, they rejigged it for NGII and NGIII. Just like NG1, bosses you've killed remain dead on revisits. You still get kicked back, but only a stage, not an entire Act. You now keep your subweapons and ammo throughout the rush. However, your lifebar is no longer restored for each boss, making attrition a concern.

It makes me laugh when scrubs melt down over the knockbacks. What the designers are saying to me is: We don't want our players staggering over the finish line before collapsing and shitting their pants. We want to associate a certain standard of play with "beating the game."

Or maybe they're cynically padding the game's playtime. Either way: Improve or suffer. THE TEMERITY OF THESE NIHONJIN For whatever reason, the cheeto-encrusted gauntlet has undeniably been hurled down.

The question is, are you gonna say "BRING IT"

Spoiler

or "REEEEEEEEE"

Spoiler

Surely not a sensible "Fuck this, I'm out." Someone has to produce these reams and reams of tediously cry-wanking videos on How Birb Hurt My Butt

[BrianC]

The Switch version of SNK40th had even more issues before the extra games were added. It had frequent crashes and bugs like the game going to a black screen when certain filters were chosen. Crystalis also had terrible screen tearing pre-patches on Switch. I find the DE thing confusing. Frank Cafaldi is involved with the new DE, but Code Mystics, which has former DE staff seems to be putting out more solid emulation.

[o.pwuaioc]

Might as well ask here, is Ninja Gaiden III worth getting if one already owns the Famicom Ninja Ryukenden?

[BIL]

Ninja Ryukenden III? If you're a fan of that game and up for more challenge - yes, NGIII's absolutely worthwhile. It's practically an Arrange Mode, with its trickier enemy placements and tighter ammo rationing, plus an infamously harsh damage scale. Between the stricter ammo allowance and punishing damage, it's much more focused on intense face-to-face combat than the FC game, which inherited some (though not all) of NGII's subweapon blunderbuss and resource generosity.

Particularly since the third game lacks NGII's balancing factors of high velocity, high gravity and sudden knockback deaths galore, I think it works out well. I especially like the upped enemy presence in the first three Acts. There's a couple easy spots that benefit from them, and one uncharacteristically boring vertical autoscroller that's fixed right up on NES.

The only caveat I'd attach is the difficulty itself, specifically the damage scale. Where NRIII is console-easy, NGIII is arcade-tough, and that scale might've been better kept to a Hard mode. The SFC's Ninja Ryukenden Tomoe/Ninja Gaiden Trilogy has perhaps the objectively best-balanced version of the game - NES level layouts, FC damage scale. Unfortunately, it looks and sounds distractingly hideous, losing all of the FC's graphical flair and BGM kick (this goes for the other two games as well). Nowhere near worth putting up with.

If you're ok with hacks, copy-paster recommended this one. Sounds excellent, at a glance.

All of this said, I wouldn't call NGIII freakishly demanding by the series' standards. The deliberately easy Famicom version is the real outlier, imo.

I own and enjoy both 8bit carts, would call NGIII the definitive if I had to choose, but it's nice to get a relatively relaxing and aesthetically cutting-edge game in NRIII.

Note also that the game's nastiest hurdle, the final stage's strict time limit, was already present on FC. So they end up feeling deceptively similar if played for no-misses, haha. Although IIRC the last bosses will kill you a lot faster in NGIII, so there's that.

The Switch version of SNK40th had even more issues before the extra games were added. It had frequent crashes and bugs like the game going to a black screen when certain filters were chosen. Crystalis also had terrible screen tearing pre-patches on Switch. I find the DE thing confusing. Frank Cafaldi is involved with the new DE, but Code Mystics, which has former DE staff seems to be putting out more solid emulation.

Yeah, I was reading about the earlier Switch revision last night. Jeeze.

I was surprised by this. I remember joking with a buddy, back when Shattered Soldier was new, that I was surprised Sony hadn't mandated "cinematic" minigames/QTEs, like poor Bill Rizer's gun jamming in the middle of a hellish alien encounter. That's pretty much what this is. Just about ready to go for the no-miss in SAR, and I kid you not, at the final hurdle I had a zombie marine, lone survivor of the plasma wave that'd shredded his unit, shambling clear across the screen firing at my dude as he struggled to clear his gun (= as I irritably 360'd the right stick).

Who plays these games with any sort of seriousness and fails to notice this stuff? I know, I've just answered my own question. I've just bought a broken product, and apparently at well under two years since release, it's too old to fix.

"Excuse me, Mr. 1CC Man, but plenty of REAL GAMERS just want to credit feed and have a good time! You can always Rewind the game, anyway!" Actually saw someone make the latter argument - promptly closed Reddit. This is why I have to come down kinda hard on those who cry "elitist." Before long, simply expecting a product to work properly is "elitism." -_-

I'm not touching anything with Digital Eclipse's name on it for the time being. A decade ago I wasn't touching anything with Hamster's name on it (proud owner of Thunder Cross for PS2 ), and they ended up my most valued developer this gen, so I know miracles do occur.

[Sumez]

Ninja Ryukenden III feels like a good game that misses the mark due to its massive leeway for mistakes. I 1cc'ed the game on my first time ever playing it, despite clumsily stumbling through most of it.

The North American Ninja Gaiden III release is notably difficult, but such a huge improvement you might as well not bother with the Japanese one unless you're just looking for a chill ninja cruise.

[BrianC]

I find it interesting that NG3 seems to have some Shadow of the Ninja influence with the ability to hang on bars and the appearance of more robotic enemies.