NESRGB board available now

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Link83
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Link83 »

Koolhass wrote:Ok, so here are some news. I turned back everything to normal (uninstalled NESRGB and solder the capacitor and the transistor), turn it on, and gray screen. At least it was showing up video. So i try a couple of times to turn it on and off, and guess what, it worked. So i thought, it must be the catridge or the slot, i cleaned it a couple of times (IPA, and even a little of deoxit), but it seems to be that it wont start until i power cycle a couple of times. Needs to heat up a little before start. What could it be???
I have read of similar issues with a failing reset switch capacitor (C15, should be 0.47uF) but since you said you had already replaced it then i'm not sure what else to suggest. Are you sure the capacitor is the correct value? and has it been orientated correctly?

<EDIT>Have you checked the value of capacitor C14? It should be 47uF If you have an early HVCN-CPU-01 motherboard it could be a lower value 1uF, if so you could try replacing it with 47uF as thats what Nintendo used on later board revisions.

To be honest a full recap is probably easiest, since the AV Famicom only has six electrolytic capacitors in total, and its the first thing I would try just so I could rule out failing capacitors as the cause of the issue.
Last edited by Link83 on Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:28 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Koolhass
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Koolhass »

Link83 wrote:
Koolhass wrote:Ok, so here are some news. I turned back everything to normal (uninstalled NESRGB and solder the capacitor and the transistor), turn it on, and gray screen. At least it was showing up video. So i try a couple of times to turn it on and off, and guess what, it worked. So i thought, it must be the catridge or the slot, i cleaned it a couple of times (IPA, and even a little of deoxit), but it seems to be that it wont start until i power cycle a couple of times. Needs to heat up a little before start. What could it be???
I have read of similar issues with a failing reset capacitor (C14, should be 47uF) but since you said you had already replaced it then i'm not sure what else to suggest. Are you sure the capacitor is the correct value? and has it been orientated correctly?

Yep, but i realized that the site where i bought the replacement gave me a 50v 47 uf instead of 50v 0.47uf. I noticed after installed it, and i changed back to the right (and Old one) when the system stopped working (oddly the sistem worked a while with the 47 uf capacitor :O, i'm an amateur, are the values the same??). Now works (with the old one), but since that purchased caps had incorrect values, i ordered a new cap kit, this time form console5. I'll recap the system completely before attempting to instal NESRGB again. Side question, which RGB cable can i use with the multi out of the Famicom??? I use a N64 RGB from RGC, but i want a new one to use with my OSSC.

Thanks for all your help!!!!!!!!
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Link83
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Link83 »

Koolhass wrote:Yep, but i realized that the site where i bought the replacement gave me a 50v 47 uf instead of 50v 0.47uf. I noticed after installed it, and i changed back to the right (and Old one) when the system stopped working (oddly the sistem worked a while with the 47 uf capacitor :O). Now works (with the old one), but since that purchased caps had incorrect values, i ordered a new cap kit, this time form console5. I'll recap the system completely before attempting to instal NESRGB again. Side question, which RGB cable can i use with the multi out of the Famicom??? I use a N64 RGB from RGC, but i want a new one to use with my OSSC.

Thanks for all your help!!!!!!!!
I have edited/corrected my post slightly since you quoted, so you may want to re-read.

There are two important capacitors to note on the AV Famicom:-
-C15 is the reset switch capacitor and should be 0.47uF, this has been known to fail on some models and can cause a grey screen.
-The C14 capacitor was uprated from 1uF to 47uF by Nintendo in later runs of the AV Famicom.

There are only six electrolytic capacitors in total on the AV Famicom, so its probably easiest to just replace them all.
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evil_ash_xero
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by evil_ash_xero »

What are the palettes, that come with the new NESRGB 2.0? Is it the same, as it has always been, or has some of the newer ones replaced them? Or are they optional?
nmalinoski
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by nmalinoski »

evil_ash_xero wrote:What are the palettes, that come with the new NESRGB 2.0? Is it the same, as it has always been, or has some of the newer ones replaced them? Or are they optional?
http://etim.net.au/nesrgb/background_fault/
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evil_ash_xero
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by evil_ash_xero »

nmalinoski wrote:
evil_ash_xero wrote:What are the palettes, that come with the new NESRGB 2.0? Is it the same, as it has always been, or has some of the newer ones replaced them? Or are they optional?
http://etim.net.au/nesrgb/background_fault/
Thanks. Just curious... why is everyone so hung up on the YUV colors? Is it just because of accuracy? They look kinda bland, compared to the RGB mockups.
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FBX
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by FBX »

evil_ash_xero wrote:Just curious... why is everyone so hung up on the YUV colors? Is it just because of accuracy? They look kinda bland, compared to the RGB mockups.
From what I heard in PAL land, YUV is more faithful to the original experience on PAL consoles. It's just wrong for an NTSC experience though, which is what started the mass obsession to do RGB palettes after many NTSC peeps started complaining back during emulation days (before mods started becoming the popular choice).
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evil_ash_xero
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by evil_ash_xero »

FBX wrote:
evil_ash_xero wrote:Just curious... why is everyone so hung up on the YUV colors? Is it just because of accuracy? They look kinda bland, compared to the RGB mockups.
From what I heard in PAL land, YUV is more faithful to the original experience on PAL consoles. It's just wrong for an NTSC experience though, which is what started the mass obsession to do RGB palettes after many NTSC peeps started complaining back during emulation days (before mods started becoming the popular choice).
Ah, I see.
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by thchardcore »

Tim is a really nice guy. The fact he even responds to one off technical support questions says it all. Love his AV Driver board.
A camel is a horse designed by a committee
copy
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by copy »

thchardcore wrote:Tim is a really nice guy. The fact he even responds to one off technical support questions says it all. Love his AV Driver board.
This is very true. He has directly helped me on at least three separate occasions. Always a prompt and helpful response.
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evil_ash_xero
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by evil_ash_xero »

Anyone know where I can get a replacement switch, in the US? My palette switch, is busted, on one of my NES's. No reason, as it was a backup, and sitting in a box, all these years. Must
have been a lemon. I'm also having a hard time finding someone to flash the new palettes. Any help on that? I've tried two different people, thus far. One was a recommended installer, on
VileTim's page.
I see some smaller ones, on FBX's page, but I'd like to find the exact same kind. Any help?
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ApolloBoy
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by ApolloBoy »

evil_ash_xero wrote:Anyone know where I can get a replacement switch, in the US? My palette switch, is busted, on one of my NES's. No reason, as it was a backup, and sitting in a box, all these years. Must
have been a lemon. I'm also having a hard time finding someone to flash the new palettes. Any help on that? I've tried two different people, thus far. One was a recommended installer, on
VileTim's page.
I see some smaller ones, on FBX's page, but I'd like to find the exact same kind. Any help?
Are you referring to the large one that was originally included with the kit? I *may* still have one, will edit this post later.

EDIT: I don't have one sadly.
Last edited by ApolloBoy on Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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evil_ash_xero
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by evil_ash_xero »

ApolloBoy wrote:
evil_ash_xero wrote:Anyone know where I can get a replacement switch, in the US? My palette switch, is busted, on one of my NES's. No reason, as it was a backup, and sitting in a box, all these years. Must
have been a lemon. I'm also having a hard time finding someone to flash the new palettes. Any help on that? I've tried two different people, thus far. One was a recommended installer, on
VileTim's page.
I see some smaller ones, on FBX's page, but I'd like to find the exact same kind. Any help?
Are you referring to the large one that was originally included with the kit? I *may* still have one, will edit this post later.
Yes. Unless there are new ones, that are better. But if things had to be wired differently, for a different switch, I'd go with the old one. I'm having a hard enough time finding someone to work on it, at all.
Icelvlan
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Icelvlan »

Which pins on the PPU send the information to display the graphics correctly? So what it’s not just a garble of graphics.
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evil_ash_xero
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by evil_ash_xero »

ApolloBoy wrote:
evil_ash_xero wrote:Anyone know where I can get a replacement switch, in the US? My palette switch, is busted, on one of my NES's. No reason, as it was a backup, and sitting in a box, all these years. Must
have been a lemon. I'm also having a hard time finding someone to flash the new palettes. Any help on that? I've tried two different people, thus far. One was a recommended installer, on
VileTim's page.
I see some smaller ones, on FBX's page, but I'd like to find the exact same kind. Any help?
Are you referring to the large one that was originally included with the kit? I *may* still have one, will edit this post later.

EDIT: I don't have one sadly.
Well, thanks for taking a look.
Koolhass
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Koolhass »

Link83 wrote:
Koolhass wrote:Yep, but i realized that the site where i bought the replacement gave me a 50v 47 uf instead of 50v 0.47uf. I noticed after installed it, and i changed back to the right (and Old one) when the system stopped working (oddly the sistem worked a while with the 47 uf capacitor :O). Now works (with the old one), but since that purchased caps had incorrect values, i ordered a new cap kit, this time form console5. I'll recap the system completely before attempting to instal NESRGB again. Side question, which RGB cable can i use with the multi out of the Famicom??? I use a N64 RGB from RGC, but i want a new one to use with my OSSC.

Thanks for all your help!!!!!!!!
I have edited/corrected my post slightly since you quoted, so you may want to re-read.

There are two important capacitors to note on the AV Famicom:-
-C15 is the reset switch capacitor and should be 0.47uF, this has been known to fail on some models and can cause a grey screen.
-The C14 capacitor was uprated from 1uF to 47uF by Nintendo in later runs of the AV Famicom.

There are only six electrolytic capacitors in total on the AV Famicom, so its probably easiest to just replace them all.

Great news! I recapped the system, and now works flawlessly!.... almost. I'm back to square one with the faint jailbars. I still see them. A summary:


System fully recapped
i did not remove the C5 capacitor
i did not remove the Q1 transistor
i did not cut the trace of original video line (i prefer not to do it in case i want to rollback the mod)


NESRGB wiring:

RED, GREEN AND BLUE to AV pins 1, 2 and 4.
CS# to AV pin 9

Image

Image

with that wiring and a N64 CSYNC SCART cable from RGC ( How is this cable wired for CSYNC?: 75 Ohm resistor between pins 9 (sync) and 5 (ground) inside the MultiAV plug. 470 ohm resistor between output of LM1881 (sync separator circuit) and SCART pin 20 (For CSYNC cable only).220uF capacitors in series with each RGB line.)

...through and OSSC gives me perfect video signal.

So, i know that first i need to remove C5 capacitor and q1 transistor to try toimprove image. With this, and the RGB cable, i will not kill again my capacitors???

Cheers!
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Link83
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Link83 »

Koolhass wrote:Great news! I recapped the system, and now works flawlessly!.... almost. I'm back to square one with the faint jailbars. I still see them. A summary:


System fully recapped
i did not remove the C5 capacitor
i did not remove the Q1 transistor
i did not cut the trace of original video line (i prefer not to do it in case i want to rollback the mod)


NESRGB wiring:

RED, GREEN AND BLUE to AV pins 1, 2 and 4.
CS# to AV pin 9

...

with that wiring and a N64 CSYNC SCART cable from RGC ( How is this cable wired for CSYNC?: 75 Ohm resistor between pins 9 (sync) and 5 (ground) inside the MultiAV plug. 470 ohm resistor between output of LM1881 (sync separator circuit) and SCART pin 20 (For CSYNC cable only).220uF capacitors in series with each RGB line.)

...through and OSSC gives me perfect video signal.

So, i know that first i need to remove C5 capacitor and q1 transistor to try toimprove image. With this, and the RGB cable, i will not kill again my capacitors???

Cheers!
Glad to hear its working now :)

However, you appear to have left the original AV Famicom's Composite video line intact, whilst also connecting up the NESRGB TTL level CSYNC output to the same AV port pin - this is not good.

If you want to use the Composite video pin to carry CSYNC, you need to free up that pin so it is no longer connected to the original circuit - either by cutting the trace, or removing components if you want the mod to be reversible (I'm not certain because different motherboard revisions label components differently, but follow the Composite video pin trace backwards and you should find it connects to C6 and R6) Alternatively just use one of the other free AV port pins and wire the SCART cable accordingly.

You have a number of options regarding CSYNC and you need to decide what exactly it is you want/need. It sounds like the cable you are using has a built-in sync stripper? If so this is unnecessary for the NESRGB.

Using the original AV port Composite video pin but not freeing up the pin first, and then using a SCART cable with a sync stripper inside, will only lead to further complications.

In my opinion the most simple setup is configuring the NESRGB J8 jumper to output 75ohm CSYNC:-
https://etim.net.au/nesrgb/NESRGB-Pinout.pdf
Then wiring it up to an unused AV port pin (Pin 7 Luma, or Pin 3 CSYNC, are both unused on the AV Famicom) and then using a passive (pass-through) CSYNC cable that is wired to use this AV port pin. This is assuming you dont intend to use this SCART cable with any other Nintendo consoles.

Also, removing the Q1 transistor is highly recommended as previously mentioned.
Koolhass
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Koolhass »

Link83 wrote:
Koolhass wrote:Great news! I recapped the system, and now works flawlessly!.... almost. I'm back to square one with the faint jailbars. I still see them. A summary:


System fully recapped
i did not remove the C5 capacitor
i did not remove the Q1 transistor
i did not cut the trace of original video line (i prefer not to do it in case i want to rollback the mod)


NESRGB wiring:

RED, GREEN AND BLUE to AV pins 1, 2 and 4.
CS# to AV pin 9

...

with that wiring and a N64 CSYNC SCART cable from RGC ( How is this cable wired for CSYNC?: 75 Ohm resistor between pins 9 (sync) and 5 (ground) inside the MultiAV plug. 470 ohm resistor between output of LM1881 (sync separator circuit) and SCART pin 20 (For CSYNC cable only).220uF capacitors in series with each RGB line.)

...through and OSSC gives me perfect video signal.

So, i know that first i need to remove C5 capacitor and q1 transistor to try toimprove image. With this, and the RGB cable, i will not kill again my capacitors???

Cheers!
Glad to hear its working now :)

However, you appear to have left the original AV Famicom's Composite video line intact, whilst also connecting up the NESRGB TTL level CSYNC output to the same AV port pin - this is not good.

If you want to use the Composite video pin to carry CSYNC, you need to free up that pin so it is no longer connected to the original circuit - either by cutting the trace, or removing components if you want the mod to be reversible (I'm not certain because different motherboard revisions label components differently, but follow the Composite video pin trace backwards and you should find it connects to C6 and R6) Alternatively just use one of the other free AV port pins and wire the SCART cable accordingly.

You have a number of options regarding CSYNC and you need to decide what exactly it is you want/need. It sounds like the cable you are using has a built-in sync stripper? If so this is unnecessary for the NESRGB.

Using the original AV port Composite video pin but not freeing up the pin first, and then using a SCART cable with a sync stripper inside, will only lead to further complications.

In my opinion the most simple setup is configuring the NESRGB J8 jumper to output 75ohm CSYNC:-
https://etim.net.au/nesrgb/NESRGB-Pinout.pdf
Then wiring it up to an unused AV port pin (Pin 7 Luma, or Pin 3 CSYNC, are both unused on the AV Famicom) and then using a passive (pass-through) CSYNC cable that is wired to use this AV port pin. This is assuming you dont intend to use this SCART cable with any other Nintendo consoles.

Also, removing the Q1 transistor is highly recommended as previously mentioned.
Thanks again for all your advice. I'll try that, but, where i can buy a nice SCART cable with multi out that complies with your suggestions? I use the N64 one because is the only one that i got and gives me video signal.
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Link83
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Link83 »

Koolhass wrote:Thanks again for all your advice. I'll try that, but, where i can buy a nice SCART cable with multi out that complies with your suggestions? I use the N64 one because is the only one that i got and gives me video signal.
Well i'm only assuming your SCART cable has a sync stripper because you mentioned it in your post. Looking back at your earlier post with the product link to the RGC cable it looks like there are multiple drop-down ordering options available, so unless you know which options you selected when you bought the cable(?) then really you would need to take apart the SCART plug to work out what components are inside, and to see if it does indeed use a sync stripper.

I prefer to make my own SCART cables so dont really have any recommendations, but I guess something like this might work. As shown on the page there are four main options when it comes to sync, so you need to choose what works best for you and your setup. It looks like they currently only have two of the four sync options available in stock.

I personally prefer to use a CSYNC pass-through cable, and then wire the NESRGB CSYNC to AV port Pin 3 and set the NESRGB J8 jumper to output 75ohm CSYNC, however this is just my own personal preference. If there is any possibility you may end up using this SCART cable with another Nintendo console in future, or if you have any other consoles with the same AV port in your setup, then it would probably be best to pick a different sync configuration/cable type for safety (For example Sync on Luma, or CSYNC TTL 470ohm and then leave the NESRGB J8 jumper untouched)

However before ordering anything I would recommend doing some more reading about sync so you understand about the different types and the different configuration options available. These pages may be helpful:-
https://www.retrorgb.com/sync.html
https://www.retrorgb.com/csync.html
shiftednes
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by shiftednes »

I have a question about the dejitter board (https://github.com/marqs85/snes_dejitter). Is performing the dejitter mod on a model 1.4 NESRGB (or that is built into the 2.X boards) doing the same thing as that add on board? Is one method of dejitter better than the other or are they doing the exact same thing? Better OSSC compatibility is my ultimate goal.

Thanks.

Edit - I went ahead and did the mod. Seems to be working well. It solved the wavy lines at the top of the screen on the OSSC/Elgato HD60 Pro capture.
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Shining
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Shining »

I have the NESRGB board 1.2 installed in my AV Famicom (mod not done by me). With this i'm using an official Gamecube Scart Cable (CVBS?) and it's working great. However, i've always felt the picture to be a bit dark. Sync is wired from CS# on the NESRGB board to pin 9 on the multiout (CVBS).

Would it be better to use PPUV or "V" instead of CS# to pin 9? Or should i go the full CSYNC route and wire CS# to pin 3 and use a CSYNC cable?
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by viletim »

Shining wrote:I have the NESRGB board 1.2 installed in my AV Famicom (mod not done by me). With this i'm using an official Gamecube Scart Cable (CVBS?) and it's working great. However, i've always felt the picture to be a bit dark. Sync is wired from CS# on the NESRGB board to pin 9 on the multiout (CVBS).

Would it be better to use PPUV or "V" instead of CS# to pin 9? Or should i go the full CSYNC route and wire CS# to pin 3 and use a CSYNC cable?
Don't change anything regarding the sync. It's already optimum for your cable.

When using the official Gamecube Scart Cable, you must have CS# to pin 9 of the Multi-AV port. That's because there's a 75 ohm resistor inside the cable which will attenuate the signal on this pin. Connecting PPUV or V won't work because the signal will be attenuated too much to work reliably.

No idea why the picture would appear dark though.
pattonthompson
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by pattonthompson »

Hey guys I have a question about best practice for av famicom hvc 101 audio with nesrgb. I am going to be using this exclusively with famicom everdrive n8 pro. Of course I want best quality sound and access to expansion audio. Im confused about my options, please help me choose with reason why if you dont care to elaborate:

1) Keep audio stock and use everdrive n8 pro sound balancing setting set to av famicom (https://photos.app.goo.gl/CewoZSKHN9evEWUm6)

2) This mod:
https://www.retrorgb.com/av-famicom-hvc ... n-mod.html

But then what setting would I use on n8 pro sound balancing?

3) Simply route av famicom audio through rgb board without the fancy additional component removal / replacement in #2. What setting sounds best on n8 pro sound balancing in this case?

4) Another way???

Thanks in advance for any help. I also posted on Krikzz forum but havent had any replies (https://krikzz.com/forum/index.php?topic=9841.0) The mod on retrorgb looks promising but not reversible and im not sure how that will react with n8 pro.
Icelvlan
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Icelvlan »

Hello,

Is anyone able to identify what this chip is?

[Image
Sirotaca
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Sirotaca »

pattonthompson wrote:Hey guys I have a question about best practice for av famicom hvc 101 audio with nesrgb. I am going to be using this exclusively with famicom everdrive n8 pro. Of course I want best quality sound and access to expansion audio. Im confused about my options, please help me choose with reason why if you dont care to elaborate:

1) Keep audio stock and use everdrive n8 pro sound balancing setting set to av famicom (https://photos.app.goo.gl/CewoZSKHN9evEWUm6)

2) This mod:
https://www.retrorgb.com/av-famicom-hvc ... n-mod.html

But then what setting would I use on n8 pro sound balancing?

3) Simply route av famicom audio through rgb board without the fancy additional component removal / replacement in #2. What setting sounds best on n8 pro sound balancing in this case?

4) Another way???

Thanks in advance for any help. I also posted on Krikzz forum but havent had any replies (https://krikzz.com/forum/index.php?topic=9841.0) The mod on retrorgb looks promising but not reversible and im not sure how that will react with n8 pro.
I did Ace's mod on mine, and the balance sounds great with my N8 Pro set to "original Famicom". I haven't done exhaustive testing, but just by ear it sounds very close to my real carts with expansion audio.
pattonthompson
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by pattonthompson »

Thanks Sirotaca, that is basically all the confirmation I needed. I would think that combination would be best for original carts + everdrive.

Patton
Listai
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Listai »

Hey everyone,

I installed an NESRGB in my AV Famicom a few weeks ago and I'm ecstatic with the results. I also followed Voultar's guide to mixing audio and expansion audio through the NESRGB on board amp (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAKSF36CgKE&t=2233s) which involves pulling the audio from the CPU pins, pulling a resistor leg up to the NESRGB board and taking a pin out of circuit.

My N8 Pro arrived yesterday so naturally the first game I wanted to test was Akumajou Densentsu and when it booted up I was happy to hear the expansion audio coming through loud and clear! except the samples aren't playing at the menu. When you press start and when you enter your name Dracula's laugh does not play. I confirmed this with the built in NSF player. The samples are silent. Changing the audio levels doesn't accomplish anything either.

What is odd though is that in stage one for instance the drum samples still play - that said I don't know enough about NES audio as to what the source is for each sample channel. Anyway some help would be appreciated - I can upload a video when I get off work.

Thanks everyone!
pattonthompson
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by pattonthompson »

Maybe its the rom. Just out of curiosity did you try it with an emulator on pc?
Listai
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Listai »

pattonthompson wrote:Maybe its the rom. Just out of curiosity did you try it with an emulator on pc?
This didn’t occur to me because it’s from a verified set but that’s a good idea! I’ll give that a go when I get home.

*EDIT* It turns out its just my stupidity. The samples play as a part of the loop on the BGM.
pattonthompson
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by pattonthompson »

Av famicom pre-rgb mod experience... I listened very carefully to the samples from akamajou densetsu on an original famicom (https://www.retrorgb.com/av-famicom-hvc ... n-mod.html) and compared to my stock composite av famicom running said game through everdrive n8 pro with sound preset set to "famicom av". I dont hear the drums at all. Im no audiophile though and that is my subjective opinion. I'll do Ace's mod along with Tims RGB mod (as outlined on retrorgb) and report back with my bootleg recordings.

Lets keep it real though, all this trouble is basically for akamajou densetsu. 99% of people would be perfectly happy with the way stock av famicom audio sounds with the everdrive n8 pro. This is for the perfectionists and audiophiles in the crowd.

If it werent the best d*** famicom / nes sound track ever I wouldn't care, but it gives me the feels.

Would love to hear from Bob, Voultar, Tim, Krikkz or any other true experts that have an opinion on this.
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