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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:54 pm 


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Posts: 312
crowsnest wrote:
Output question: Can I wire up S-video and RGB-DIN connector both and run them at the same time? I was only planning on wiring up the S-Video for if I ever had to use it for some reason and was wondering the limitations. Also the little soldering board that the DIN goes into has a "V" where I would assume the CSync should go to and not "composite video" (the "V" on the NESRGB mobo). Do they both output at the same time, and is doing that safe? In case I used S-Video for capture or something.

Just curious, but have you considered using one of the 3D printed MULTI OUT ports instead of both a DIN and S-Video connector? Just seems to make more sense than having to cut multiple holes in the shell. For example:-
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2508718
https://www.retrorgb.com/nes-toploader- ... anels.html


Last edited by Link83 on Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:58 pm 


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crowsnest wrote:
Kez thank you so much for clearing so much up for me! The only thing I am still a little iffy on is csync... is that not normally wired up to the DIN connector? Like I said the pad on the small square pcb that the DIN solders into says "V" so should I just run a wire from that to the "V" pad? Not sure if the cable strips the sync from the "V" or if I should just connect that to csync. I am connecting to a Sony PVM through SCART->BNC with external sync (H+V sync)..


Yeah sorry my wording was a little strange there, but in order to use csync, you must connect CS# to V. What I was saying above is related to the SCART cable.. I dunno if your kit came with a SCART cable, or you're making or buying one, but you need to know whether the sync line in the cable is simply a wire or whether it has a resistor in it as well. My guess with the DIN setup is it will be just a wire, so you should short J8.

Audio is not hooked up this way on the AV Famicom as, being the "AV" Famicom, it already has audio output right there on the multi-out. Again I am not super experienced with other devices, but I guess the system audio is muxed into the RF output and can't be easily tapped.. so it needs to be handled digitally by the NESRGB.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:36 pm 



Joined: 04 Jun 2020
Posts: 7
Yes, I considered going with the multi-out solution, but decided to get the kit from etim.au that comes with the din sockets for rgb, and 3.5mm audio along with the scart cable that matches it all from the same place. I was going to run the s-video along with the RGB because it came as part of the kit, but might just put the s-video parts away in a drawer and just use RGB, they look similar and it might be easy to mix them up and will just look cleaner. I can always add it later if I think I need it. I think if I ever was to sell the unit it would be to someone who would want the RGB anyways... and the r/f out is still there too.

Thanks again as well Kez for clearing up my confusion about csync, I definitely want to use that instead of needing to strip it from another source.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 5:09 am 



Joined: 04 Jun 2020
Posts: 7
Some good news... couple minor issues...

I got it all soldered in and working, the picture looks pretty amazing on my PVM. Two minor issues though that I would like to correct if anyone has heard of these before...

After playing a few minutes, like 5 or so... small pixels begin glitching out a bit, best way to describe it is a few spots of the screen begin blinking the wrong color in small single or clusters of pixels... nothing major but definitely noticeable. It is only on one screen, as if it is overheated on that screen and if the screen draws something else it disappears, only to reappear if the screen comes back. Its almost as if it keeps the same color too long in some spots it glitches and never fixes itself until you cycle power. Has anyone else experienced this? I might have to open it up while it is in play and see if I can find the loose connection... is this a common issue people run into with the mod?

Also, my reset button does not work. Is this part of doing this mod? I am pretty sure it worked before the mod. Also, I did not put the shield that covers the power supply area back on to make putting the cover on easier, and of course the one that goes over the motherboard (because it can't fit with the mod).

Just in case it may play a part... I have a LED power light mod from years ago that connects to the bottom of the motherboard.

Even though its not perfect yet, I am really impressed with the quality of picture this old console can put out with this mod. Thanks to Tim for developing this.

Any ideas to fix the little issues appreciated.. thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:33 am 


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Do you mean you left out the large heat sink over the power area? Do you have any pictures?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:40 am 



Joined: 04 Jun 2020
Posts: 7
Yes I am a fool... didn't realize that was a heatsink... should have known, put it back on and the glitch went away. Working great except for the reset button not working... strange.

Anyone else had their reset button die after the mod?

Another thing I just thought of... does the NESRGB disble the lockout chip?


Last edited by crowsnest on Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:53 pm 


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Not sure about the lockout disabling.. but I don't see why it would! The NESRGB really just intercepts PPU signals.

In terms of the reset button.. the mod shouldn't affect it. You'll just need to go in and do some investigating! Start with the switch itself, use a multimeter to check that it actually works, make sure it is soldered in properly. Then if you can, follow the traces to wherever the reset switch is hooked up to, make sure there is a connection there. It's possible that you damaged a trace or knocked something loose while doing the mod, so just investigate everything thoroughly!


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:10 pm 



Joined: 04 Jun 2020
Posts: 7
Kez --

Yea that is what I will do... didn't know if there was some reason the reset button was disabled due to the mod. It shouldn't be hard to find out what I did to mess it up hopefully... luckily it is not a complicated thing its just a simple switch. I can't believe I thought that metal piece over the power module / back of the toploader was a r/f shield and not a heatsink. Glad I didn't play the system long with it off before I read your reply and reattached it. It was blocking my palette switch a bit but I got it figured out and back in safely.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:51 pm 



Joined: 04 Jun 2020
Posts: 7
Just want to thank you again Kez for saving me so many headaches with this mod. The reset button must have been dirty or something because I hit it with some rubbing alcohol and it works again!! I think it wouldn't hurt for the etim site to throw in a few mentions of how to wire up the toploader if you don't have a multi-out. Who knows how long it would have taken me to figure out that A & B come from CPU pin 1 and 2. It is probably common knowledge to the NES mod scene but for someone who hasn't worked on a Nintendo NES before it is not.

I am blown away by how good this system looks through this mod. It is a world of difference even from composite. Oh yea, thanks for mentioning that I disconnected the HEATSINK lol. I ask a lot of questions when I am new to something because I am mistake prone, but this mod is complete.

Thanks again!


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:55 pm 


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Glad you got it all sorted out :) NESRGB is a tough mod with a lot that can go wrong, so well done!


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:29 pm 



Joined: 21 Mar 2019
Posts: 16
Hello guys! Unfortunately I was not so lucky doing the NESRGB mod. Once I was done, I turned on the console with an N64 SCART cable and all I got was a gray screen. I temporarily removed the mod and PPU, to place it directly on the motherboard to test if that was a problem. Unfortunately composite video also casts a gray screen. From what I've read, it could be that I have fried the PPU by desoldering it (I used a ZD-915) or even the CPU by mistake. What other thing i can try to find out the cause of my failure? I know I can get replacements for the PPU on Aliexpress, will I be able to find a replacement chip for the CPU if this is what I accidentally killed? Cheers!


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:09 am 


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This is pretty tough to diagnose but I would start by checking all your traces and pads, it's possible they got damaged while removing the PPU. Use a multimeter to confirm they are connected up.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 3:18 pm 


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Koolhass wrote:
it could be that I have fried the PPU by desoldering it (I used a ZD-915)


It could be, but my gut tells me that if you used an actual desoldering tool, you probably are okay. (unless you really held it on there a long time)


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:01 pm 



Joined: 21 Mar 2019
Posts: 16
Thanks for your replies!, in the end i detected that capacitor C15 was in short. So, it could be CPU (pins 3, 4 and 31 always low, even resetting) or the capacitor, so i'm ordering a capacitor kit and some famicom clone cpu an ppu to try to solve my problem.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:59 pm 



Joined: 21 Mar 2018
Posts: 7
I am going to be doing the dejitter mod to an NESRGB1.4 board. The RGB cables I use have 330ohm resistors which I use with multiple systems and the mod was previously outputting TTL sync (jumper J8 is open). I see the instructions say "The 430 ohm series resistor already on the board makes its suitable to connect directly to a 75 ohm sync input." (https://etim.net.au/nesrgb/background_f ... itter.html) Should I remove this resistor and short/close the spot it was installed or can this 430 ohm resistor function along with the 330ohm resistor in the cables I use that were designed with the TTL output? I assume that is the resistor next to pad 1, right?

Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:30 pm 



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 507
Location: Sydney, Australia
shiftednes wrote:
I am going to be doing the dejitter mod to an NESRGB1.4 board. The RGB cables I use have 330ohm resistors which I use with multiple systems and the mod was previously outputting TTL sync (jumper J8 is open). I see the instructions say "The 430 ohm series resistor already on the board makes its suitable to connect directly to a 75 ohm sync input." (https://etim.net.au/nesrgb/background_f ... itter.html) Should I remove this resistor and short/close the spot it was installed or can this 430 ohm resistor function along with the 330ohm resistor in the cables I use that were designed with the TTL output? I assume that is the resistor next to pad 1, right?


It should be fine to leave the resistor in place. The series combination of 330 and 430 is not too high.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:04 pm 


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viletim do the current NESRGB 2.0 boards still come with the dejitter firmware?

I only ask as a number of posts on the previous page seem to suggest that the dejitter firmware might not always be installed?:-
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=47617&p=1401705#p1401705
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=47617&p=1401934#p1401934

Also do you think it might it be possible to include a jumper on the board to enable/disable the dejitter function? (If there are any unused pins on the CPLD)


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:11 am 



Joined: 24 Jun 2020
Posts: 2
I thought I'd throw a troubleshooting tip out there to all the beginners. I nearly e-mailed viletim for some assistance, so hopefully this can help someone else from littering his mailbox. :)

I've had an NESRGB board installed in my NES-001 front loader for about a month now. For the majority of that time I have had this odd horizontal scrolling interference issue I just could not get to the bottom of. It might be described as a horizontal flickering. It persisted over S-Video and RGB, but was clean over the factory composite out. It was most pronounced in games with lots of solid bright colors. Not really noticeable on dark colors or black. I have not tested S-Video (likely not resolved on my rig) but RGB is now clean as a whistle.

Your mileage may vary with other gear but for some insight, the board revision I have is an NES-CPU-11. I am connecting to a VGA computer monitor (CRT) with a passive HDMI to VGA adapter, via a Retrotink2x Classic, connected to a Retrotink RGB2COMP connected to the NES via viletim's NESRGB XRGB to SCART adapter. There are lots of cleaner solutions but I started with what I started with and ended up here. I'm sure others are in the same boat.

I tried a new 78s05, using a USB Blaster to flash different firmware, cleaning up my n00bish wiring, a variety of power supplies, etc. In the end, I found that the encoded composite must introduce enough interference to create this issue. Switching my sync line from the encoded composite (V) on the NESRGB board over (CS#) cleaned everything right up. Granted I can't get composite out of SCART at this point, but to me that kind of defeats the purpose of the mod anyway. Unless you are working TTL compatible gear, make sure to set jumper J8 for 75 ohm sync.

Once I figured this out, I couldn't believe I hadn't examined the docs and tried this earlier. Hopefully this helps someone. I appreciate the knowledge, the community brings, and thank viletim and the many other quality product developers and moders for creating such awesome additions to old equipment.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:45 pm 



Joined: 21 Mar 2019
Posts: 16
Finally i got up and running my AV Famicom with a NESRGB install (somehow i killed the CPU, so i ordered a replace and everything is fine now)...... but !!!, i have a little nuisance. When i see games with a light color in the background, as the sky in Super Mario Bros 3, i detect some very faint lines, something like jailbars, but very subtle. I took a picture but is hard to notice without horizontal movement:

Image

So i know it could be a lot of factors.

The console is original, i only replaced one capacitor, the one next to the reset button.
I use the OSSC with this RGB cable: https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/SUP ... CART-CABLE
I didn't cut any traces on the board.
I did remove the composite capacitor
I don't care to have composite video.

In the RGB install, i used the original AV output of the AV Famicom, and the CS, R, G and B of te NESRGB

Image

Image

Any ideas of what can i do to improve image??

Regards!!!


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:58 pm 


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Have you removed the Q1 transistor from the AV Famicom's motherboard? That has been known to cause some issues in the past.

Also you mentioned you haven't cut any traces, so has the Composite video pin on the MULTI OUT port been completely isolated? If not you may want to cut the trace up there, or alternatively wire the CSYNC signal to the CSYNC pin and change the SCART cable to match.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:04 pm 



Joined: 21 Mar 2019
Posts: 16
Link83 wrote:
Have you removed the Q1 transistor from the AV Famicom's motherboard? That has been known to cause some issues in the past.

Also you mentioned you haven't cut any traces, so has the Composite video pin on the MULTI OUT port been completely isolated? If not you may want to cut the trace up there, or alternatively wire the CSYNC signal to the CSYNC pin and change the SCART cable to match.


Nope, i could try that, it won't affect my RGB output right?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:14 pm 


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Koolhass wrote:
Link83 wrote:
Have you removed the Q1 transistor from the AV Famicom's motherboard? That has been known to cause some issues in the past.

Also you mentioned you haven't cut any traces, so has the Composite video pin on the MULTI OUT port been completely isolated? If not you may want to cut the trace up there, or alternatively wire the CSYNC signal to the CSYNC pin and change the SCART cable to match.


Nope, i could try that, it won't affect my RGB output right?

It shouldn't, but first thing is to remove the Q1 transistor and see if that makes any difference. Its been reported in this thread a number of times that leaving the Q1 transistor in place can cause interference/speckles in the video if not removed.

Basically since you have repurposed the Composite video pin on the AV port you need to make sure that line is completely disconnected from the original motherboard components (Or alternatively repurpose one of the AV Famicom's unused AV port pins instead, like the ones for CSYNC or Luma) If you dont want to cut any traces simply follow the Composite video trace backwards from the AV port and make sure any components that connect to that trace are removed, like the Q1 transistor. There was a post somewhere in this thread which detailed which components can/should be safely removed.

One other possibility - since you have replaced the CPU did you make sure to use a matching Revision H CPU? I only ask as I have read that mixing different CPU and PPU revisions can cause problems.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:41 pm 


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It's been a long time since I did this install but I seem to remember you can disable composite video by removing one capacitor.. I can't remember which one though unfortunately but Im pretty sure I learned about the trick from Game Tech.. And I think it is one you have to move or bend over to fit the NESRGB anyway, so you can just remove it instead.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:24 pm 



Joined: 21 Mar 2019
Posts: 16
Link83 wrote:
Koolhass wrote:
Link83 wrote:
Have you removed the Q1 transistor from the AV Famicom's motherboard? That has been known to cause some issues in the past.

Also you mentioned you haven't cut any traces, so has the Composite video pin on the MULTI OUT port been completely isolated? If not you may want to cut the trace up there, or alternatively wire the CSYNC signal to the CSYNC pin and change the SCART cable to match.


Nope, i could try that, it won't affect my RGB output right?

It shouldn't, but first thing is to remove the Q1 transistor and see if that makes any difference. Its been reported in this thread a number of times that leaving the Q1 transistor in place can cause interference/speckles in the video if not removed.

Basically since you have repurposed the Composite video pin on the AV port you need to make sure that line is completely disconnected from the original motherboard components (Or alternatively repurpose one of the AV Famicom's unused AV port pins instead, like the ones for CSYNC or Luma) If you dont want to cut any traces simply follow the Composite video trace backwards from the AV port and make sure any components that connect to that trace are removed, like the Q1 transistor. There was a post somewhere in this thread which detailed which components can/should be safely removed.

One other possibility - since you have replaced the CPU did you make sure to use a matching Revision H CPU? I only ask as I have read that mixing different CPU and PPU revisions can cause problems.


Already removed Q1 transistor
I don't know if i completed isolated composite multi out port. Which one is the CSYNC pin? i used other pin (3 i guess), but with my current rgb cable no video was out. Which RGB cable do i need to use to match that configuration?
I'll check what can i remove in the thread
Both cpu and PPU are H revision. (Original CPU was G)

Now, i'm sad to report that before attempting to remove transistor, the famicom suddenly stoppped working, after playing flawlessly for an hour. I turn it on, and doesn't give any signal or video. D:. I tested the voltage regulator and it seems to be working (feeding 5v). I'm open to ideas XD.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:26 pm 



Joined: 21 Mar 2019
Posts: 16
Kez wrote:
It's been a long time since I did this install but I seem to remember you can disable composite video by removing one capacitor.. I can't remember which one though unfortunately but Im pretty sure I learned about the trick from Game Tech.. And I think it is one you have to move or bend over to fit the NESRGB anyway, so you can just remove it instead.


Yep, i removed that capacitor, :(


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:44 am 


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Did you replace the VR with the higher value one?

Also would recommend a recap while you're in there as it's not much $ to be sure you're not suffering from a leaky cap introducing noise.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:06 am 



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 507
Location: Sydney, Australia
Link83 wrote:
viletim do the current NESRGB 2.0 boards still come with the dejitter firmware?

I only ask as a number of posts on the previous page seem to suggest that the dejitter firmware might not always be installed?:-
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=47617&p=1401705#p1401705
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=47617&p=1401934#p1401934


All NESRGB boards come with firmware version 2.2 since March 2019.



Link83 wrote:
Also do you think it might it be possible to include a jumper on the board to enable/disable the dejitter function? (If there are any unused pins on the CPLD)


There's not much point. All it does is suppress 1 pixel's worth of clock pulses to the the PPU every second frame. This makes the frame timing consistent and increased the compatibility with some TV sets. The first line still has a sync pulse in the wrong place which cases wobbling at the top of the screen. I tried to fix this in version 2.1 but made it worse accidentally. Version 2.3 works just like the version 1 NESRGB which does not meddle with the clock or sync lines. Some customers were blaming the clock pulse suppression that version 2.2 does for the top screen wobble. I made version 2.3 to prove to these people that removing the de-jitter stuff does not make it better.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:18 am 



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 507
Location: Sydney, Australia
Koolhass wrote:
Finally i got up and running my AV Famicom with a NESRGB install (somehow i killed the CPU, so i ordered a replace and everything is fine now)...... but !!!, i have a little nuisance. When i see games with a light color in the background, as the sky in Super Mario Bros 3, i detect some very faint lines, something like jailbars, but very subtle.


You need to determine whether its coming from inside the console or externally. If it's from console the bars are static (are they vertical bars? I can't tell from the photo). If the bars move it's probably external like noise from the power supply.


Koolhass wrote:
Now, i'm sad to report that before attempting to remove transistor, the famicom suddenly stoppped working, after playing flawlessly for an hour. I turn it on, and doesn't give any signal or video. D:. I tested the voltage regulator and it seems to be working (feeding 5v). I'm open to ideas XD.


That's no good. Is there any sign of life at all (audio or original video signal)? If not, try removing the NESRGB board an check the console works without it.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:37 pm 



Joined: 21 Mar 2019
Posts: 16
viletim wrote:
Koolhass wrote:
Finally i got up and running my AV Famicom with a NESRGB install (somehow i killed the CPU, so i ordered a replace and everything is fine now)...... but !!!, i have a little nuisance. When i see games with a light color in the background, as the sky in Super Mario Bros 3, i detect some very faint lines, something like jailbars, but very subtle.


You need to determine whether its coming from inside the console or externally. If it's from console the bars are static (are they vertical bars? I can't tell from the photo). If the bars move it's probably external like noise from the power supply.


Koolhass wrote:
Now, i'm sad to report that before attempting to remove transistor, the famicom suddenly stoppped working, after playing flawlessly for an hour. I turn it on, and doesn't give any signal or video. D:. I tested the voltage regulator and it seems to be working (feeding 5v). I'm open to ideas XD.


That's no good. Is there any sign of life at all (audio or original video signal)? If not, try removing the NESRGB board an check the console works without it.


It came from inside, were very faint vertical lines without movement.

So the problem it seems to something related to the PPU / NESRGB :

Mainboard receives 5 volts OK
CPU seems to be working normal (checke pins 3, 4 and 31 with the help of NESDEV forum)

I'll try to reinstall capacitor and transistor of composite video and see if gives image.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:55 pm 



Joined: 21 Mar 2019
Posts: 16
Ok, so here are some news. I turned back everything to normal (uninstalled NESRGB and solder the capacitor and the transistor), turn it on, and gray screen. At least it was showing up video. So i try a couple of times to turn it on and off, and guess what, it worked. So i thought, it must be the catridge or the slot, i cleaned it a couple of times (IPA, and even a little of deoxit), but it seems to be that it wont start until i power cycle a couple of times. Needs to heat up a little before start. What could it be???


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