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 Post subject: Re: An actual SNES mod to sharpen the pixels of 2-CHIP conso
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:13 pm 


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This is fantastic. My original childhood SNES (which I unfortunately recently killed somehow the last time I opened it :( ) is on the shelf for repair and it has terrible color/white bleed to the right in RGB. I was lambasted for saying its S-Video output was better than its RGB but its true because the SVideo doesnt have as much bleed to the right as the RGB out. This looks like a fun project as I'd love to be able to game on my childhood SNES and put the SNES Jr. on the shelf.

Ordered a run from OSHPark-- man, $6.90 shipped for 3 boards w/ free shipping? Thats a good deal. Thanks Buttersoft. You wouldnt happen to have a batch order ready to go for the parts to populate the board, would you?


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 Post subject: Re: An actual SNES mod to sharpen the pixels of 2-CHIP conso
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:08 pm 



Joined: 27 Sep 2019
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Does anyone else have a good capture setup with this mod installed? Like OSSC optimal settings with HDMI capture. I wanna compare results with the my capture test linked in the OP. I made the mod in the very early days of my PCB layout learning, so the results might've been due to poor layout/routing. The unbuffered analog output pins are very sensitive to noise.


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 Post subject: Re: An actual SNES mod to sharpen the pixels of 2-CHIP conso
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:39 pm 


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Josh128 wrote:
Ordered a run from OSHPark-- man, $6.90 shipped for 3 boards w/ free shipping? Thats a good deal. Thanks Buttersoft. You wouldnt happen to have a batch order ready to go for the parts to populate the board, would you?


No, sorry :( Being in Aus, I tend to find it's generally cheapest to use a combination of RS-online and ebay, and as I do a bit of tinkering I normally have some of the components for any project lying around.

Be aware that captaineos/jeremybh1 is talking about a PAL SNES in his instructions. My post on the AussieArcade forum does an SFC. I'm not sure how different an NTSC SNES will be, in terms of the install details.

Gunstar wrote:
Damn fine work, so 2-chip softness has been fully defeated?


Errr, not fully defeated, no, but it's definitely a big improvement. All credit to Torapu, of course, all i did was lay the board out.

It would be interesting to see some proper comparisons, but i don't have any capture gear so ima leave that so someone else :)


Last edited by buttersoft on Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: An actual SNES mod to sharpen the pixels of 2-CHIP conso
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:51 pm 


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Kudos to you and everyone involved. Looking at Captaineos' shots it certainly looks like a big step-up in terms of sharpness.


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 Post subject: Re: An actual SNES mod to sharpen the pixels of 2-CHIP conso
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:09 am 


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buttersoft wrote:
Be aware that captaineos/jeremybh1 is talking about a PAL SNES in his instructions. My post on the AussieArcade forum does an SFC. I'm not sure how different an NTSC SNES will be, in terms of the install details.

The NTSC SNES and Super Famicom are internally identical so it should be exactly the same as the Super Fami.


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 Post subject: Re: An actual SNES mod to sharpen the pixels of 2-CHIP conso
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:03 am 



Joined: 15 Oct 2013
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I have a PAL 2chip SNES I'm itching to try this with, and an OSSC to do some comparisons with.

I've ordered 5 PCBs thru JLC PCB, should be here in a week, and now looking at components.

Dunno what I'll do with 5 PCBs hahaha, probably give them away for the cost of shipping?


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 Post subject: Re: An actual SNES mod to sharpen the pixels of 2-CHIP conso
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:07 am 


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So, this is a mod that requires separate parts? Like, you can't just get a chip, and put it in?
I know a guy who could "possibly" do this. But... I dunno. I'm a little touchy when it comes to experimenting.
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 Post subject: Re: An actual SNES mod to sharpen the pixels of 2-CHIP conso
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:51 pm 


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Still waiting on my PCBs.


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 Post subject: Re: An actual SNES mod to sharpen the pixels of 2-CHIP conso
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:45 am 


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Has Voultar updated anything on his board? I see he's working on an expansion audio chip, for the NES. He makes some good stuff, but sometimes it's pretty "get it while you can".
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 Post subject: Re: An actual SNES mod to sharpen the pixels of 2-CHIP conso
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:36 am 


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RetroSwim wrote:
Dunno what I'll do with 5 PCBs hahaha, probably give them away for the cost of shipping?


Where do you think Captaineos got his... and half the components too. I never bother asking for postage for something that small, and I've gotten at least as much free stuff from AussieArcade as i've shipped on. And i'm more than in debt to the whole retro community for the effort people put it. I hope one day it all balances out ;)


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 Post subject: Re: An actual SNES mod to sharpen the pixels of 2-CHIP conso
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:23 pm 



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evil_ash_xero wrote:
Has Voultar updated anything on his board? I see he's working on an expansion audio chip, for the NES. He makes some good stuff, but sometimes it's pretty "get it while you can".

I've only heard him mention, in passing, about a possible mod few years ago on a Retro Roundtable episode. I think he decided it was not worth pursuing, but he has expressed interest in the mod using the digital outputs (see thread buttersoft linked earlier).

I'm putting my own RLPF mod on hold while I follow progress on the digital mod. It looks like there are a few snags with mode 7 at the moment, but it may be the ultimate solution if all the issues are dealt with.


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 Post subject: Re: An actual SNES mod to sharpen the pixels of 2-CHIP conso
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:28 pm 


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yoshiyukiblade wrote:
it may be the ultimate solution if all the issues are dealt with.


Even for a CRT?


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 Post subject: Re: An actual SNES mod to sharpen the pixels of 2-CHIP conso
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:41 pm 



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Yep, you just need a simple DAC. In fact, the board Opatus made has a DAC, and he recently tested it on a PVM.


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 Post subject: Re: An actual SNES mod to sharpen the pixels of 2-CHIP conso
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:27 am 



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I'm glad to see this thread getting attention, as I am still using my SNES every couple of days to see what other games look like. No regrets.
Buttersoft was indeed generous enough to not only supply most components but posted them at no cost. This was a good driver for me to be the first PAL SNSP-CPU-02 tester, which is why I re-wrote the steps and posted a lengthy post to consolidate things. Don't forget this console also has C-SYNC on pin 3 (opposed to 12v) and a 60hz mod (59.5).

Despite the improvements, I couldn't help but notice the faintest jailbars on certain games. They are a non-issue considering I can't really photograph them but I actually think they are new. For example I often use Mario Kart (NTSC-J) for testing scalers, CRTS etc. There is now faint jailbars on the gray titles. I looked online and someone is suggesting a PPU pin lift (?24?) OR removing R98, something about lifting the subcarrier. Ideally I'd like to keep that as S-Video can be handy but can't actually think when I'd ever need it as I'm all about custom cables, RGB C-SYNC etc.

If there is any more questions then I'm happy to reply. Sorry I don't better before and afters.


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 Post subject: Re: An actual SNES mod to sharpen the pixels of 2-CHIP conso
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:15 pm 



Joined: 15 Oct 2013
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buttersoft wrote:
RetroSwim wrote:
Dunno what I'll do with 5 PCBs hahaha, probably give them away for the cost of shipping?


Where do you think Captaineos got his... and half the components too. I never bother asking for postage for something that small, and I've gotten at least as much free stuff from AussieArcade as i've shipped on. And i'm more than in debt to the whole retro community for the effort people put it. I hope one day it all balances out ;)


I suppose a small PCB like this would be able to go as a letter, rather than a parcel hey?

My mind just went automatically to a box that costs $20 to post*. That times 4 is $80 and I can't be spending that to give something away! ;)


Edit: * Internationally


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 Post subject: Re: An actual SNES mod to sharpen the pixels of 2-CHIP conso
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:05 am 



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The diodes seem hard to get, would any basic schottky diode with an 0.8v forward drop do the trick?

Edit: Ordered all the parts from Digikey, save for the diodes. I got some 1N4148's, but will try find the specific ones in the meantime.

Ordering enough to build 5 boards was cheaper than the shipping, so I just bought them, and will distribute the rest as built boards or kits, not sure yet.

Stay tuned.


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 Post subject: Re: An actual SNES mod to sharpen the pixels of 2-CHIP conso
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:44 am 


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RetroSwim wrote:
The diodes seem hard to get, would any basic schottky diode with an 0.8v forward drop do the trick?


IDK :(

This is a pretty sensitive cricuit, so it might make a difference. It's about speed of switching as much as a anything else. From memory i got the diodes from ebay or Aliexpress.


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 Post subject: Re: An actual SNES mod to sharpen the pixels of 2-CHIP conso
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:08 am 



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buttersoft wrote:
RetroSwim wrote:
The diodes seem hard to get, would any basic schottky diode with an 0.8v forward drop do the trick?


IDK :(

This is a pretty sensitive cricuit, so it might make a difference. It's about speed of switching as much as a anything else. From memory i got the diodes from ebay or Aliexpress.


A 1N4148 has a recovery time of 8ns, which is the same as the 1S2076A specifies.

Guess I'll find out Friday! :P

Edit: Comparing the datasheets, I'm reasonably confident that 1N4148 silicon diodes will do the job.

Recovery time is the same (8ns), characteristic curve of forward voltage over the current range is the same.

Worst case is I assemble it and the results are bad, then I'll just have to order some 1S2076A diodes from Aliexpress and cop the courier shipping so I'm not waiting 2 months for them lmao.


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 Post subject: Re: An actual SNES mod to sharpen the pixels of 2-CHIP conso
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:17 am 



Joined: 15 Oct 2013
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PCBs arrived

Image

Just waiting on the components.


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 Post subject: Re: An actual SNES mod to sharpen the pixels of 2-CHIP conso
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:17 am 


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Still waiting on mine, PCBs should be here tomorrow. Do you happen to have a shopping cart or something like that of the list of components that I could use to order from? I've just been so busy lately I havent had time to look into hunting down any of the components. :(


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 Post subject: Re: An actual SNES mod to sharpen the pixels of 2-CHIP conso
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:12 am 



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As mentioned, I ordered from Digikey, as they had everything but the specific diodes. These are the part numbers:

Amp IC
PART: LMH6683MAX/NOPBCT-ND
DESC: IC OPAMP VFB 3 CIRCUIT 14SOIC
Qty 1

Diodes
PART: 1N4148FS-ND
DESC: DIODE GEN PURP 100V 200MA DO35
Qty 6

2K Resistors
PART: RNCP1206FTD2K00CT-ND
DESC: RES 2K OHM 1% 1/2W 1206
Qty 6

300R Resistors
PART: 2019-RK73H2BTTD3000FCT-ND
DESC: RES 300 OHM 1% 1/4W 1206
Qty 3

200R Resistors
PART: 311-200FRCT-ND
DESC: RES SMD 200 OHM 1% 1/4W 1206
Qty 6

47R Resistors
PART: CR1206-FX-47R0ELFCT-ND
DESC: RES SMD 47 OHM 1% 1/4W 1206
Qty 6

1uF Capacitors
PART: 732-8115-1-ND
DESC: CAP CER 1000PF 50V X7R 1206
Qty 6


When I get the parts and assemble, I'll let everyone know if the 1N4148 diodes are suitable. If not, the 1S2076A will have to be sourced from eBay or Aliexpress. I don't foresee any issue though.


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 Post subject: Re: An actual SNES mod to sharpen the pixels of 2-CHIP conso
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:43 am 


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RetroSwim wrote:
As mentioned, I ordered from Digikey, as they had everything but the specific diodes. These are the part numbers...

When I get the parts and assemble, I'll let everyone know if the 1N4148 diodes are suitable. If not, the 1S2076A will have to be sourced from eBay or Aliexpress. I don't foresee any issue though.



Fantastic! Seriously, thank you for this, you the man!


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 Post subject: Re: An actual SNES mod to sharpen the pixels of 2-CHIP conso
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:06 am 



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Update: got my components from Digikey today. Will assemble this weekend! Wish me luck!! :D


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 Post subject: Re: An actual SNES mod to sharpen the pixels of 2-CHIP conso
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:46 am 


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Awesome, did you get a chance to complete the install? What were the results?


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 Post subject: Re: An actual SNES mod to sharpen the pixels of 2-CHIP conso
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:45 pm 



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Josh128 wrote:
Awesome, did you get a chance to complete the install? What were the results?


Not yet!

RetroSwim wrote:
Will assemble this weekend!


:P

Edit: Turns out I couldn't wait.

Image

Last Saturday I streamed Super Castlevania IV. After the stream, I took a screenshot of OBS to note the password for next time.

On the right is the screenshot I took then.

On the left is right now, with the mod installed. No changes to OSSC settings, no changes in OBS.

The results speak for themselves!!!

And yes, it does appear 1N4148 diodes are perfectly fine replacements for the other harder-to-get one.


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 Post subject: Re: An actual SNES mod to sharpen the pixels of 2-CHIP conso
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:06 pm 


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Holy crap man, it almost looks like a bilinear filter has been applied to the right vs the left. Incredible! Do you have experience with a 1 chip / SNES Jr and if so, how would you rate the output of the unmodded SNES 2 chip, modded SNES 2 chip, and SNES 1 chip on a scale of 1 to 10?

Do you plan to do more thorough tests just to make sure this wasnt due to capture settings or anything? The difference seems absolutely enormous to me. I have received my PCBs from OSHPark, currently waiting on parts from Digikey. I bought enough for 3 kits as I had a min. order of 3 PCBs. Excited to get off my Neo Geo MVS kick and dig back into some SNES stuff.

Also, in your opinion, taking into account the labor needed to assemble these, if you were to sell one, what would you consider to be a fair price? I will likely end up with some that I may sell assembled for those who dont has the tools to do it themselves but want that sweet clarity on their 2 chip console.


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 Post subject: Re: An actual SNES mod to sharpen the pixels of 2-CHIP conso
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:07 pm 


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Awesome, really glad people are getting some mileage out of this :)

I'd still love to know if it's skewing colours or crushing at all. The gains outweigh any issues there, but i still think it'd be worth examining.


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 Post subject: Re: An actual SNES mod to sharpen the pixels of 2-CHIP conso
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:37 pm 



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Josh128 wrote:
Holy crap man, it almost looks like a bilinear filter has been applied to the right vs the left. Incredible! Do you have experience with a 1 chip / SNES Jr and if so, how would you rate the output of the unmodded SNES 2 chip, modded SNES 2 chip, and SNES 1 chip on a scale of 1 to 10?


Never owned a 1-Chip, so couldn't say.

I'd say the quality of the modded 2-Chip is somewhere between unmoddod and 1-Chip in terms of quality. While the difference is very much night and day, the picture still isn't perfect. There is still some very feint ringing in areas of high-contrast when viewed through my OSSC, but the picture on my 29" PVM might as well be perfect, neighbouring colours actually have solid line between them now!!

Josh128 wrote:
Do you plan to do more thorough tests just to make sure this wasnt due to capture settings or anything? The difference seems absolutely enormous to me. I have received my PCBs from OSHPark, currently waiting on parts from Digikey. I bought enough for 3 kits as I had a min. order of 3 PCBs. Excited to get off my Neo Geo MVS kick and dig back into some SNES stuff.


I don't know what meaningful comparison tests I can do now that I have the mod installed. I was too impatient to take a bunch of before/after screenshots lmao.

The difference really is huge, the A/B comparisons on the original Japanese page indicated that the improvement is quite big, and the mod lives up to it.

Josh128 wrote:
Also, in your opinion, taking into account the labor needed to assemble these, if you were to sell one, what would you consider to be a fair price? I will likely end up with some that I may sell assembled for those who dont has the tools to do it themselves but want that sweet clarity on their 2 chip console.


I'm not sure, a tenner probably? They're pretty quick to assemble once you get a rhythm going.

Trouble will be that you need to re-use the transistors from the SNES board. If you solder everything else on and supply the boards like that, the pads for the transistors become difficult to access.

You could source new transistors and attach them (part numbers in captaineos's post), then the buyers just have to remove the transistors from their SNES.

buttersoft wrote:
Awesome, really glad people are getting some mileage out of this

I'd still love to know if it's skewing colours or crushing at all. The gains outweigh any issues there, but i still think it'd be worth examining.


:)

Thank you for the effort you put in designing the PCB. Made everything much easier than "rat's nest" construction in the original Japanese post.

How could one test for the colour issues you mention?


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 Post subject: Re: An actual SNES mod to sharpen the pixels of 2-CHIP conso
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:49 pm 


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RetroSwim wrote:

Edit: Turns out I couldn't wait.



Nice looks to be a big improvement
Image

I do see some additional pixels which I'm guessing is a capture artefact?
Image

Fake edit: Is this the ringing you mentioned?


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 Post subject: Re: An actual SNES mod to sharpen the pixels of 2-CHIP conso
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:19 pm 



Joined: 27 Sep 2019
Posts: 37
It looks like maybe optimal sampling wasn't used. That's the preferred option for pixel perfect output, but it could make some artifacts worse. The capture device can also throw away more information from colorspace conversions, so it's tricky to get it right. Even worse, some do real-time H.264 transcoding so it's all sorts of messed up. Overall it looks like there is a fair bit of improvement, but it's a similar result to what I had a year and a half ago.


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