Reaction to the PS5?

[Steamflogger Boss]

Even then I have to run Yomawari Night Alone in compatibility mode for Windows 98 / Windows ME. Why? It is a mystery. But I still understand completely.

This whole series (if it can be called as such) was pretty damn fun.

[vol.2]

Huh. Go figure. Well, maybe I'll pony up a little earlier this time around.

I really hope the Xbox is halfway decent because the PS5 is just too ugly for words. Sooooo don't want that duckling hanging around in the living room.

[null1024]

Huh. Go figure. Well, maybe I'll pony up a little earlier this time around.

I really hope the Xbox is halfway decent because the PS5 is just too ugly for words. Sooooo don't want that duckling hanging around in the living room.

Yeah. I really hope the SX has actual games.
The Xbone didn't have the games I wanted at all, and the PS4 still only had a little bit that I'd actually see myself regularly playing and wanting to shell out money on.

I miss the days of the Dreamcast and it's off-the-wall first-party titles, but sadly that sort of thing just does not fly in the mainstream anymore.

Judging how the Dreamcast turned out I'm not sure it flew back then either.

Wasn't Sega bleeding money from the export market failure of the Saturn?
The DC went from "this was one of the most successful product launches in history" to "we literally cannot survive people waiting for the PS2 to come out because that means people aren't buying DCs and that means people aren't buying DC games and we're in so much debt"

I still think the DC's quirky library could have worked, had Sega not spent the entire 1995-1998 period actively making the worst decisions they could in the home market. It wasn't like it wasn't also full of major big-name titles and the best versions of a lot of multiplats.

[GaijinPunch]

Wasn't Sega bleeding money from the export market failure of the Saturn?
The DC went from "this was one of the most successful product launches in history" to "we literally cannot survive people waiting for the PS2 to come out because that means people aren't buying DCs and that means people aren't buying DC games and we're in so much debt"

There were a few reasons. Basically Sega just couldn't catch a break. Not one of their systems was a huge hit in more than 1 region, except maybe Genesis / MD in Europe and the US. The Saturn cleaned house in Japan but of course, shit the mattress abroad. The DC didn't do great in Japan... lackluster launch, not enough units, etc.

I do miss those days. Used to get a raging nerd boner from hitting Akihabara on my lunch break and seeing what was new. There was tons of shit that I missed through crappy dial up internet and magazines I didn't buy every month. Oh to be young again.

[neorichieb1971]

My friend showed me a picture of the size of the PS5. Its freakin huge. It might even be wider than separate which would mean racking it would be troublesome.

[BrianC]

At least the Xbox series X actually looks like a box.

[Udderdude]

The PS5 is sized more like a small form factor PC .. which I guess is what it is.

I feel like the SSD will be the PS5's greatest strength but also it's biggest weakness.

Pros - Unique games that take advantage of a fast SSD, nobody would even think to make a PC port of these unless they required an SSD install and even then they might not be fast enough. Some games like the new Ratchet & Clank seem to be specifically designed around the SSD, allowing the player to hop through levels rapidly with little to no load times.

Cons - Limited space that can't be upgraded easily (Edit: Turns out it will support M.2 SSDs, but only specific brands that will almost certianly be in short supply once it launches). You can't add your own additional storage for games. Next gen games (plus patches and DLC) will start taking up even more space, leading to 3-4 games installed at a time max. Of course, cost. This thing won't be cheap, lol.

Maybe we'll see some games that require an SSD install, and some games that don't, allowing you to install non-SSD games on additional storage. But I somehow doubt it.

[ZellSF]

Add to that the frequency at which big titles got a gimped PC version.

I didn't realize this was a thing. What's an example of a PC title that got a crappier version (that wasn't addressed with an eventual update anyway)?

It's really rare for the PC version to be inferior to the console version. When PC gamers complain about bad ports, it's usually because they're lacking features PC gamers expect. There are rare exceptions, but even they get fan patches pretty quickly. I'm really struggling to think of a single game that's better played on console.

And of course, the endless stream of odd graphics card bugs and the driver updates to fix it.

I'm a PC gamer and I can't remember ever having to deal with that. Certainly not an endless stream.

This is an old meme that I guess is never going away. I remember when PS2 games "looked like" PS1 games.

Ok sure. But for real, does anything in the video demonstrations really look like something the PS4 wouldn't be capable of, comparing to the games already out there? Even if you can point out some shadow details or particle effects that have a bit more fidelty, you can't possibly argue that the effective gap is in any way reminiscent of that between PS1 and PS2.

No but you can't argue that the effective gap between the PS1 and PS2 is reminiscent of that between the SNES and PS1 either. I'm still happy we moved on and aren't still playing SNES games.

That said, if you really think games look the same as PS4 games remember two things:

1. They're running at a much higher framerate or resolution, which would be noticeable improvements that you wouldn't see on a low quality stream.
2. Better specifications means it's easier to develop for. If you're not getting prettier games because the roof has been hit on diminishing returns and there's no competition there any longer, you'll likely get even more games.

So even if it is as you say (and I don't think it is), that still wouldn't be a reason not to want new hardware.

And looking at games like Ghostwire Tokyo, Deathloop, etc. there's barely a gap from comparable X360-gen AAA titles like Bioshock, Deus Ex 3, etc. But the games still look good.

Deathloop (according to marketing) runs at 4K/60 FPS. Dishonored, the X360-gen equivalent runs at 720p/30 FPS.

If that's barely a gap, something's wrong with your eyes.

I'm just questioning the attempt to try marketing a new console generation on graphics improvements alone

They're not though? I've seen more marketing around their SSD tech than graphical improvements, I mean the first paragraph on their PS5 page is this:

Experience lightning fast loading with an ultra-high speed SSD, deeper immersion with support for haptic feedback, adaptive triggers and 3D Audio, and an all-new generation of incredible PlayStation® games.

Graphics comes second, and not even taking that spot by itself:

Marvel at incredible graphics and experience new PS5™ features.

[vol.2]

nobody would even think to make a PC port of these unless they required an SSD install and even then they might not be fast enough.

required SSD install has been a basic PC world reality since the later days of Windows 7. everyone already has an SSD, and they are super cheap now, so it's not an appreciable barrier to entry.

what you are alluding to is sony marketing hype.
the reality is that current gen sata SSDs (not to mention NVM drives which are waay faster) are fast enough to saturate the pipeline of a high-end PC already. the new tech that Sony is touting is most likely dedicated hardware to speed up data decompression. (thus feed the SSD I/O)
It really doesn't actually have much to do with the SSD per se. it's the bottleneck to the SSD they are worried about.

in any case, new tech like this (whatever it actually turns out to be) rarely turns out to be as "ground breaking" as the marketing makes it out to be.

The good news about this is that developers will finally be able to freely optimize games to run on SSDs for the PC. If anything, this is a move that will end up benefiting people with high-end processors that will now be able to see the benefits of the NVM interfaces. And the PC world isn't standing still by any means. If you're talking about going out and plopping down $ on new hardware, there's going to be a whole new chipset and a new RTX line from Nvidia coming, as well as substantial updates to SSD pipeline I/O that will hit shelves before the PS5 does.

[Udderdude]

nobody would even think to make a PC port of these unless they required an SSD install and even then they might not be fast enough.

required SSD install has been a basic PC world reality since the later days of Windows 7. everyone already has an SSD, and they are super cheap now, so it's not an appreciable barrier to entry.

Sure, for OS and program use. Nobody installs all their games on an SSD unless they've got one specific game they want to load faster.

[vol.2]

Nobody installs all their games on an SSD unless they've got one specific game they want to load faster.

gone are those days. my last 1 TB SSD cost maybe 100 bucks. it's already cheaper to manufacture the SSDs than it is mechanical HDDs, and the companies are just milking it for now. once they get tired of the shrinking profit margins for traditional HDDs, they will be gone entirely. it's going to happen sooner than you think.

[ZellSF]

Sure, for OS and program use. Nobody installs all their games on an SSD unless they've got one specific game they want to load faster.

I'm nobody?

Lots of people use HDDs for games still, sure, just not everyone.

in any case, new tech like this (whatever it actually turns out to be) rarely turns out to be as "ground breaking" as the marketing makes it out to be.

So infuriating seeing Sony fanboys saying that the PS5 will be the end of loading times.

[rapoon]

m.2 support

groovy. have they confirmed whether it'll be sata-3 or pcie interface, or support both?

i'm amazed at how large and ugly the ps5 console is. comparison to a router is appropriate; it looks like they hired the design team from asus or netgear.

i like the simplicity of the xbox series x (soon the be called the XXX. these naming conventions suck)

[null1024]

(soon the be called the XXX. these naming conventions suck)

I've already seen people call it the "SeX".
Maybe it was deliberate?

[Obiwanshinobi]

I do get the sentiment that games haven't evolved much after the big shift with ps360.

I don't get what that "big shift" was supposed to be, with games themselves. Online distribution and downloadable patches hardly were all that much. What kind of games on "HD" consoles were massively different from games pretty common on previous-gen home consoles? Even vertical resolutions up to 1080i could be find in certain PS2 games, as was loading ROMs off HDD (not that either technically affects game design much).

If anything, shift with NDS/PSP was pretty big, what with hardware-accelerated 3D at bareable framerates and casual wireless LAN parties.

Rhetorically put, were there any neighbouring generations of home console games (hardware and distribution channels aside) more similar to each other before shift from PS2-gen to 360-gen?

[Steamflogger Boss]

I do get the sentiment that games haven't evolved much after the big shift with ps360.

I don't get what that "big shift" was supposed to be, with games themselves. Online distribution and downloadable patches hardly were all that much. What kind of games on "HD" consoles were massively different from games pretty common on previous-gen home consoles? Even vertical resolutions up to 1080i could be find in certain PS2 games, as was loading ROMs off HDD (not that either technically affects game design much).

If anything, shift with NDS/PSP was pretty big, what with hardware-accelerated 3D at bareable framerates and casual wireless LAN parties.

Rhetorically put, were there any neighbouring generations of home console games (hardware and distribution channels aside) more similar to each other before shift from PS2-gen to 360-gen?

Gameplay is what I was talking about, thought that was pretty clear. Gen 7 is when everything started to go open world/cinematic game experience. The jump from NES to SNES/GEN was impressive, but the games are quite similar on a fundamental level. You still had generally the same genres and conventions.

The PS2 was a 480i console in practice, barely any HD support.

[vol.2]

The jump from NES to SNES/GEN was impressive, but the games are quite similar on a fundamental level. You still had generally the same genres and conventions.

hmmm. maybe, but the complexity of games really amped up in SNES. sure you still had plenty of basic designs returning for another go in better clothing, but you also had vastly more complex rpgs and sports games. the first madden game on the SNES was in itself one of the titles that drove initial sales of the console over the existing genesis fan-base (i stuck with the genesis tho lol)

the technology of the SNES enable all kinds of primitive 3D effects that changed the way designers could play with perspective, thereby creating new conventions and subgenres along the way. i don't think that can be ignored.

[Steamflogger Boss]

The jump from NES to SNES/GEN was impressive, but the games are quite similar on a fundamental level. You still had generally the same genres and conventions.

hmmm. maybe, but the complexity of games really amped up in SNES. sure you still had plenty of basic designs returning for another go in better clothing, but you also had vastly more complex rpgs and sports games. the first madden game on the SNES was in itself one of the titles that drove initial sales of the console over the existing genesis fan-base (i stuck with the genesis tho lol)

the technology of the SNES enable all kinds of primitive 3D effects that changed the way designers could play with perspective, thereby creating new conventions and subgenres along the way. i don't think that can be ignored.

I'm just saying it's smaller than the changes in games from gen 6 to 7. If we are making game eras, I think it's pretty clear gen 7 was a new era transitioning to what gaming essentially still is, in terms of the big studios and devs. Maybe it's just me but there is a lot I still love to play on gen 6 consoles. Basically everything on gen 7 is on gen 8 and the new games on these consoles are largely the same experience. I get a very different experience playing PS2.

I would agree there are a fair number of SNES games that could not be done on NES w/o fundamental changes.

[XoPachi]

I'm a simple man.
I see Ratchet and Clank.
I buy console.

[Marc]

DAMN that's big. And ugly. I think of the ones I've owned, the X1X is probably the quietest and least obtrusive of the lot. Certainly more than enough to tide me over until one of the new ones hits a sub-£300 price point. Hell, long as the current one's keep getting the Hamster stuff, there's a more than big enough list of stuff I'd still like to play.

[pablumatic]

Not pleased with the look. Its big and awkward looking. It also requires a stand just to set it horizontally. That's bad design.

Since I'm in no rush to go next-gen I can wait for the inevitable "slim" model and hope some of the deficiencies will be addressed.

I'm interested in the Demon's Souls remake and want to see more games before I commit to buying anything. Would also like more clarity on backwards compatibility. I hope they make all PS4 games backwards compatible, but the initial announcements don't sound too promising.

The digital edition looks better since its symmetrical, but not by much. I presume that's by design to push everyone to be trapped to buying exclusively from the PS digital store to give Sony extra $$$.

The Xbox Series X also doesn't look great, but at least you can place it horizontally without a stand. Again I will be waiting for a slim model there too.

[Udderdude]

Not pleased with the look. Its big and awkward looking. It also requires a stand just to set it horizontally. That's bad design.

Since I'm in no rush to go next-gen I can wait for the inevitable "slim" model and hope some of the deficiencies will be addressed.

The Xbox Series X also doesn't look great, but at least you can place it horizontally without a stand. Again I will be waiting for a slim model there too.

This is my new console strategy, too. Wait a few years and grab the revised system for cheap and whatever games didn't manage to make it over to PC (These days, that number is pretty small unless it's from Nintendo lol).

Might just skip the whole process and ignore anything that isn't cross-platform. Is it really worth buying one of these things anymore for a handful of exclusives?

[ZellSF]

Not pleased with the look. Its big and awkward looking.

I don't think it being big is a flaw, it allows more room for cooling, which was a problem (noise) for many PS4 owners.

The digital edition looks better since its symmetrical, but not by much. I presume that's by design to push everyone to be trapped to buying exclusively from the PS digital store to give Sony extra $$$.

I really, really doubt that. I can't imagine there's many people who will skip functionality they find important over an aesthetics issue, certainly not enough to warrant console design decisions specifically for them. At least not for game consoles, which are generally ugly anyway.

Might just skip the whole process and ignore anything that isn't cross-platform. Is it really worth buying one of these things anymore for a handful of exclusives?

Going by the PS4 there's more than a handful.

While that list is still short, consider that many of the PS4 cross platform games aren't cross platform with PC. They're split over PS3/Switch/Vita/Xbone, which are mostly weaker platforms, so compromises are made for some games.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

The Xbox Series S console has no disc drive but rather a paltry 512gb of internal SSD for storage. It does have two USB 3.1 ports on-board (1 on frontside & 1 on the backside). The only remedy/solution to that pressing issue at hand is to break down & buy the obligatory Seagate 1TB SSD expansion card but that's an additional $219.99 usd on top of the MSRP of $299.99 usd for the XSS console itself. Also you can't play/boot-up enhanced Xbox games for XSX & XSS consoles with an external HDD but have to use the propeitary Seagate 1TB expansion card instead. The internal cooling fan on the XSS console is whisper quiet indeed. Plus the slim size of the XSS is quite nice for a different change of pace.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[vol.2]

The Xbox Series S console has no disc drive but rather a paltry 512gb of internal SSD for storage.

Is it possible to just swap out the main drive with something bigger?

[Strider77]

From my understanding Sony USA has taken over the Playstation division.... as ugly as the PS5 is I can believe it. A friend got one and I've been around it since launch. I thought I might get use to it after awhile, nope. I know what it plays is the important thing but it's so off putting and awkward, especially sitting on it's side.

[vol.2]

I know what it plays is the important thing but it's so off putting and awkward, especially sitting on it's side.

Maybe there will be a mid-cycle refresh console that fixes the fugly problem.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

The Xbox Series S console has no disc drive but rather a paltry 512gb of internal SSD for storage.

Is it possible to just swap out the main drive with something bigger?

It's not possible to add more space other than getting the external Seagate 1tb expansion card with a Xbox Series S console setup (this applies to the Xbox Series X console as well).

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[vol.2]

It's not possible to add more space other than getting the external Seagate 1tb expansion card with a Xbox Series S console setup (this applies to the Xbox Series X console as well).

Well that sucks. It looks like the drive itself is just a normal M2 NVME drive, so if you can't upgrade it, then it's a built-in software limitation rather than a fixed hardware limitation.

Perhaps someone will discover how to clone the drive and fix the problem.

[Austin]

The Xbox Series S console has no disc drive but rather a paltry 512gb of internal SSD for storage. It does have two USB 3.1 ports on-board (1 on frontside & 1 on the backside). The only remedy/solution to that pressing issue at hand is to break down & buy the obligatory Seagate 1TB SSD expansion card but that's an additional $219.99 usd on top of the MSRP of $299.99 usd for the XSS console itself. Also you can't play/boot-up enhanced Xbox games for XSX & XSS consoles with an external HDD but have to use the propeitary Seagate 1TB expansion card instead. The internal cooling fan on the XSS console is whisper quiet indeed. Plus the slim size of the XSS is quite nice for a different change of pace.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

I think you've got this mixed up. I'm pretty sure the X can handle "Enhanced" Xbone games on external hard drives. The SX cannot do it, period, due to an architectural limitation. It can still play those games, they just won't be the higher-grade versions you get with the stronger hardware.

I had a friend bring over his Series X and we transferred Doom Eternal to an external hard drive and it played at 4K just fine.

Xbox's supposed "Velocity Architecture" can't be taken advantage of via external hard drives (it requires the internal storage or the M2 SSD), but you can still play any game just fine on an external hard drive on either model. The expensive, official 1TB M2 SSD shouldn't be seen as a necessity.